People say I write about ordinary experiences like poetry. I am very spiritual. I breathe music and books, have an icon art gallery, ink stained fingertips, and a deep, abiding, unapologetic love for Jean Grey, Lyta Alexander and Edward Cullen.
Dick/Babs Week (run by @dickbabsweek25) is almost upon us, and I thought it might be helpful if someone made a timeline of key stories and events, in case anyone participating needed to check their sources, or was looking for some comics inspiration, or just wanted to stay authentic to the real history. Since I finished reading and rereading Nightwing and Birds of Prey last month, I figured I may as well try my hand at it. Here's how we'll do this: I am going to lay out my read on the important comics and how they work together, then I'll provide a list of key issues and what happens in each. Deal?
Three notes before we start: one - I have a notoriously terrible memory, even having freshly reread most of this only a couple of months ago I will inevitably forget something. Please feel free to comment, and if necessary I will amend the post!
The second - I am working under the assumption that Post-Crisis and Infinite Frontier are generally in alignment. I'll explain myself when I get to the New 52 & Rebirth, but for now just know that I am only interested in the 1986-2011 era and present day.
Finally - this was inspired and aided by a number of other extremely insightful posts, both on this website and elsewhere. Namely, the recommended reads and D/B break-up history from @seilnakyle, this exhaustive recounting from @zahri-melitor, various from @kitkat5628, this list of Post-Crisis Dick/Babs comics on LOCG by user ecevece, and @batvacuum's DickBabs History Streamlined. I urge you to read these and the other D/B related posts from those accounts, as they are all quite excellent!
Robin / Batgirl
Because of reboots and flashback stories, putting together the beginning of Dick & Barbara’s romantic history is a bit…tricky. Dick has had romantic feelings for her going back to the mid-1970s, but we want Post-Crisis comics. For that, we start with Robin: Year One, which as an aside was the book that made me a comics fan.
Before we do that, however, I want to address Dick and Barbara knowing each other as kids. Pre-high school kids. It’s cheesy, but now we have two critically acclaimed runs by very popular writers that have become evergreen books—Batman: The Black Mirror written by Scott Snyder and Tom Taylor’s Nightwing—that both establish Dick and Babs met as kids. In this regard, Taylor is actually relatively conservative. He only has them meet and beat up some bullies. Snyder has Dick mention taking Barbara to prom. With that in mind, Dick and Barbara first meet in Nightwing (2016) #78 flashback. I had a whole tangent about fitting this into RYO, but I’ve decided to spare you fine people from my ramblings for now.
At the end of Robin: Year One, Barbara sees Robin for the first time, and we get the famous “not on your life, Boy Wonder” line from Jim. We see this scene again from Barbara’s perspective in Batgirl: Year One #3, and she seems a great deal less impressed here than she did in RYO.
Speaking of Batgirl: Year One, that’s the important stuff! This is where Dick and Barbara team-up as Robin and Batgirl for the first time, as well as their first kiss (chronologically). That kiss is quite interesting, since it’s Dick stealing a kiss from her. He tries for another go, but she shuts him down.
Don't worry, Batgirl gets him back at the end.
That’s worth noting: Barbara isn’t all that interested in Dick in this story–aside from a hint here or there. She thinks he's getting a bit big for his pixie boots. That’s how I prefer my Robin/Batgirl. Dick has a massive crush, but Barbara doesn’t [fully] reciprocate. The more build-up we can have for long-term Dick/Babs the better.
This book was mentioned specifically in The New History of the DC Universe, which is great since that reaffirms its canonicity post-Infinite Frontier. However, there are a lot of good stories that you should know about but are in conflict with BGYO.
The Batman Chronicles #9 has a cute story with Robin and Batgirl–I like it. Nice ending, with the photobooth and all that. However, this story predates BGYO and doesn't mesh well. I try to be pretty strict about continuity, so I have no issue jettisoning stories that don't fit with pre-established or superseding stories. BGYO is Barbara's definitive origin, cited across guides and histories since its publication. This story is a one-off that severely overestimates how young Dick and Barbara can be as crimefighters.
Next, Batgirl: Summer of Lies. Great story, has one of my favorite lines and favorite exchange in any Robin/Batgirl story. Also does not adhere to BGYO, at least not in the flashbacks. This was trying to restore a history more in line with BGYO after the New 52, but doesn't align fully with it. Jettisoned.
That goes double for the Pre-Crisis Batman Family stories from the 1970s, they don’t fit so we won’t take them into consideration.
This doesn’t mean they’re bad, just that they don’t fit with this history we’re building here. You should be aware they exist, but if I'm to stay consistent I am going to have to rule them non-canon.
Here's the stories for this era:
Nightwing (2016) #78 - Flashback. Dick and Barbara meet.
Robin: Year One #4 / Batgirl: Year One #3 - Robin meets Barbara.
BGYO - Robin & Batgirl team-up, Robin kisses Batgirl.
The Batman Chronicles #9 - First Robin/Batgirl team-up. Conflicts with BGYO.
Batgirl: The Summer of Lies - Flashbacks show first Robin/Batgirl team-up. Rebirth. Conflicts with BGYO.
Batman Family (1975) - Robin & Batgirl's Pre-Crisis adventures. Conflicts with BGYO, and most of Post-Crisis.
Nightwing / Oracle - Pre-Reunion
This is Dick and Barbara’s time apart while he was on the New Teen Titans and she was working with the Suicide Squad. This is also where Barbara was theoretically engaged to Jason Bard. I will attempt to summarize as best I can:
Dick: Became Nightwing for [complex reasons] while leading the New Teen Titans. Was deeply in love with Princess Koriand’r of Tamaran, but frankly didn’t treat her very well. She broke up with him; he proposed. Their wedding was a disaster. Dick was unanimously kicked from the team. Dick and Kory spent a few weeks with the Flash. Kory left to go find herself, and discovered she didn’t want to be with Dick anymore. Left the planet without saying goodbye. Dick decided after 172 issues plus annuals that he actually enjoys being a solo character.
Barbara: Was engaged to Jason Bard off-panel. Shot by the Joker. Dumped Jason off-panel. Became Oracle. Worked for Amanda Waller for a beat. Was eventually fully brought back into the fold by Batman. Started using Black Canary as a field agent. Was very lonely, but slowly made friends with the new Robin and Dinah.
The only issue of note here in terms of their relationship is the very last one, Showcase ‘94 #12. One of my favorite stories in all of 1990s DC. It’s Barbara dealing with a stalker/home invasion. First Oracle solo story, first Brian Stelfreeze Oracle, first appearance of the Clocktower, first time we see Dick and Barbara interact on-panel Post-Crisis. And what an interaction it is; makes me all teary-eyed just thinking about it. It’s also a Dick-as-Batman story, which is neat. This is where we start tracking their relationship from. Moving forward most of these can be placed in publication order.
Important stories:
Nightwing: Year One - Dick and Barbara’s last time seeing each other while she was still Batgirl.
The Killing Joke - You know.
The Batman Chronicles #5: “Oracle: Year One - Born of Hope” - Barbara becomes Oracle.
Suicide Squad (1987) #23, 36, 48-49 - Oracle’s most prominent interactions with Task Force X and Waller. By the end of the series, she is based out of Pittsburgh with the rest of the team at the Institute of Metahuman Studies.
Batman: Year Three - Half flashback, half present day. Dick trying to reach out to Batman pre-Tim.
Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying - Tim enters the equation.
The Sword of Azrael #1 - Babs’ first appearance in a Bat-Title since she became Oracle.
The Hacker Files #5-6 - Barbara is very lonely. Moves from Pittsburgh back to Gotham.
The New Titans #99-114 - Dick’s apocalyptic crash-out.
Black Canary (1992) #10 - Oracle reaches out to Nightwing for the first time (sounds more impressive than it is). Bad story.
KnightsEnd / Batman: Prodigal - Dick returns to Gotham.
Showcase ‘94 #12 - Dick and Barbara reunite on-panel for the first time. Set during Prodigal.
Nightwing / Oracle - The Slowburn
This is the good bit–the build up. The anticipation. The longing. The UST.
Throughout the first 20 issues of Nightwing (1996), we get little hints and playful banter. In the first annual, Dick inadvertently hurts Barbara when he jokingly says, “Barbara! I didn’t know you cared!” while discussing a case in which he married another woman. It was complicated. This is the first indication of shared feelings.
Issue 16–a personal favorite of mine, I love Dick building his car–is the first time Dick suggests that they should try to have “good times again.” It’s less suggestive in context; don’t get too excited. Great scene, Dick rubbing his chin thoughtfully; Barbara pulling at her hair. Both thinking, “What if…”
Skipping ahead four issues, Dick’s first stop after the earthquake devastated Gotham is to Barbara’s apartment. Here we get our first truly tender moment in the ongoing, where Dick puts his hand on her cheek and they let the silence speak for a second.
We have a few others I can get through pretty quickly, there are the two Devin K. Grayson and Brian Stelfreeze stories (three if you count Barbara’s page in “Desires” from Batman 80 Page Giant ‘98), the first is a New Year’s Eve story called “The Old Lane.” It’s very beautiful, though its canonicity is made slightly difficult by No Man’s Land. The other is from Nightwing: Secret Files & Origins #1, where Barbara keeps asking Dick who his first love was…and he all but says that it was her. Very sweet. The Nightwing/Huntress mini is a bigger deal for Dick/Helena (obviously), but the morning after Helena can immediately tell that Dick and Barbara have feelings for each other. Nightwing #24, Dick solves an old case with Barbara’s help, another favorite of mine. Then #25 is the team-up with Tim, where he repeatedly pesters Dick about Barbara, even threatening to tell Bruce about Helena. Arguably the best Dixon/McDaniel issue.
That brings us to the issue. Birds of Prey #8. It is–in my opinion–the best issue Dixon ever wrote, best issue of BOP, and possibly the best issue published by DC in 1999. You remember the old “Greatest Stories Ever Told” collections? If they made those today, not only would BOP #8 belong in The Greatest Nightwing/Oracle/Romance Stories Ever Told, it would belong in The Greatest DC Stories Ever Told. All of this is to say I really like it. It’s also very, very crucial to Dick/Babs for obvious reasons, as this is where flirtation between characters evolves into a shared desire, not just between Grayson and Gordon but the audience as well. After BOP #8, we want to see them together. The story isn’t all that complex; it’s just Dick taking Barbara out for a fun night just before the city shuts down for NML. He doesn’t just take her to see a movie or something like that, however. No, he takes her to a very special place. He takes her to Haly's Circus.
We see Dick & Babs in the audience get showered with confetti, and after all that loneliness and isolation we actually get to see Barbara smile. Dick himself put it best, “It was good to see Barbara laugh.” They meet Mr. Haly, who seems like a nice chap who definitely wouldn’t be down with any Court of Owls chicanery, and then they talk about their trauma. Dick straight up asks, “What’s the one thing you can’t do now that you wish you could?” And her response, it’s too beautiful to try to summarize,
You know that moment–you’re on a ledge with the jumpline in your hand?
You feel the wind.You hear the traffic way below.Then you’re off into space.And for a few seconds–before the line loses slack and your swing begins––you’re on wings.
Gave me chills just rereading it now. Gave Grayson an idea; he decided to take her “flying.”
That’s the good stuff. I’d like to take a second to comment on that costume she has for said flying. I really like it, and I wish more comics that referenced this scene took note of it instead of the cover suit.
Then we have the scene where Dick has her attempt a flying transfer. More than that, he asks her to trust him, and trust herself. The exchange after they successfully connect, “Yeah! You still have it, Babs.” / “I do, don’t I?” absolutely brings me to tears every time. It’s too good.
Then–and this is a very important detail that people very often forget or misremember–they do not kiss. When I bought this issue at my LCS, they labeled it as “first Nightwing/Batgirl kiss,” which is wrong for a dozen reasons, but primarily because we do not see them kiss. I very nearly “um actuallyed” the boys at the store, but then realized I would be made fun of forever if I did. So I did not. You? You’re getting an “um actually” I hate to say. Take note of this, they lean in–they WANT to kiss. But they don’t. He holds her so tenderly, but they don’t kiss. The most romantic evening either of them will ever have. But they do not kiss!
Why am I making such a big deal of this? Because it’s part of the build-up. It’s key to it, in fact. They aren’t ready for a relationship. Barbara even says so pretty bluntly at the end. And that’s good! It’s restraint, and we like restraint. It’s why I am so obsessed with this issue. Not just because it’s the best issue Greg Land ever drew–which it is, or because it’s the best dialogue Chuck Dixon ever wrote–see previous statement, but because they leave us wanting more. They open the door…but they do not walk through it. Restraint is so vital to good, well, everything! But especially for good storytelling. If you get nothing else from this post: Dick and Barbara do not kiss in BOP #8 and this is a good thing. The audience shouldn’t want them to get together; the audience should need them to get together. You want the reader to hang on every word, praying they get together. That takes patience and restraint, both are present in spades in BOP #8.
I’m sure I could write even more about this issue, but given that this post is already coming out later than I wanted, AND it’s almost 11 pm as I’m writing this, AND they ain’t even together yet…I suppose this will do.
Next stop is the real kiss, and we’re back to Nightwing for “Ballistic Romance”—which is a great title. It’s No Man’s Land, and Nightwing was sent to take back Blackgate from the inmates. He does so, but is wounded pretty severely in the process. He stumbles back to the Clocktower, where Barbara nurses him back to health. We actually see him recovering in other books, namely The Titans (1999) #9 and Robin (1993) #71. Fun little continuity exercise, though if I'm picky (which I am), Dick seems a lot better in both scenes compared to in NW#38. Don't worry, I'm not that strict, but I felt I ought to mention it. That scene in Robin is so good it’s criminal. These three are my favorite characters ever (aside from Superman, of course).
Anyway, in NW #38 we see Dick getting taken care of. She lets him sleep in her bed, gives him lil kisses on the head, bakes him some bread, and then he goes and screws it up saying, “I could get used to this.” Typical. This makes Barbara storm off back to her computer, and she tells him again that they can’t be what they once were. He asks her to explain to him why that is. She says she had to give up a lot after getting hurt.
Dancing.
Feeling carpet on bare feet.
Him.
He tells her that doesn’t matter, and for her to just tell him what to do to prove that. All she asks for is time…and for him to shave. That shave turns out to be fortuitous for Mr. Grayson, as not only does he look a lot better, but after she gives him a gentle kiss on the cheek the UST becomes too overwhelming. He picks her up and they kiss, and it is glorious. It’s so good that Wayne Family Adventures recreated this scene almost perfectly just a few weeks back. (Yes, that did make me go less hard on WFA for a minute—I’m sure they’ll find a way to waste this good will.) The second half of this two-parter is also great, but doesn’t have as much important D/B stuff to talk about.
Now is as good a time as any to talk about how messy Dick/Babs is. Just before he started going out with Barbara, Dick was perpetually going on first dates with his landlady, he mentioned in the first issue of Titans ‘99 that Starfire had been sleeping on his couch (though to be clear, that issue came out way before even BOP #8 and frankly I could see Dick and Kory fighting the whole time), and then there was his encounter with Huntress.
Not to be outdone, Barbara decided she really wanted to be Lucy Westenra because she too ended up with three suitors at the same time. An adventurer, a rich man, and a guy with a real job. Also Black Canary. And Azrael? Only the first three are treated as viable options. The last issue of BOP before the crossover with Nightwing was actually about sorting out the suitors, and ended with Jason Bard being shown the door. Well, actually it ended with Dick being tormented on a holodeck and swearing vengeance on Tim while Black Canary was captured by Lady Vic & Brutale, but who’s counting?
Now I don’t think we should shrink away from this messiness, rather we should attack it head-on. Let’s go down the list:
Clancy - Dick really mishandles this in a completely unjustifiable way, and Clancy is right to be furious with him. There’s no cheating from either direction, but that doesn’t matter. He should have been straight with her.
Starfire - These two weren’t getting back together. I read every single godforsaken issue of New Teen Titans from 1980 to 1995, through all the name changes and renumberings and sell-out specials. Zero percent chance. Maybe if someone decided to do extensive character work with them today they could reconcile and get back together, but in 1999? No. I know they both say “I love you” before she’s back off to space again, but they hadn’t actually addressed any of the reasons they broke up in the first place.
Huntress - Actually addressed by the characters involved multiple times.
Jason Bard - Jason had a better shot at winning over Black Canary than getting back together with Barbara. She speaks of him with some affection, but always in the past tense.
Ted Kord - I’m sorry, but I don’t get this one. Babs and Ted went on two dates, one of which they didn’t finish, the second ended with them agreeing to be friends. I love their friendship; I don’t understand or see the vision for them as a couple.
Black Canary - …okay I do get this one. Also Dixon’s cluelessness leads to waaay more suggestive scenes than Simone even managed.
Azrael - To steal from Ted, “BWAHAHAHA.”
I think that’s all the important bits before they get serious, so here’s a list of as many relevant stories as I could come up with. The comics going forward will be presented in rough publication order. Assume everything listed as NW or BOP are the 1996 and 1998 series:
Nightwing (1995 mini) #2 - First D/B flirt, she calls him “bright eyes.”
Nightwing Annual #1 - There is a flirtation and unspoken hurt when Dick “marries” Emily Washburn for a case.
NW #½ - Barbara ogles Dick shirtless (tasteful).
NW #16 - This is the first strong indication we get for D/B UST.
DCU Holiday Bash II: “The Old Lane” - A beautiful Devin K. Grayson & Brian Stelfreeze story, but placement is problematic due to No Man’s Land. A favorite of mine.
NW #20 - Set during Cataclysm, Dick immediately seeks out Barbara. She’s safe, and they share a very tender moment.
NW #21 - Babs flips when Dick is thought dead (he’s fine).
Nightwing/Huntress - Dick and Helena spend a night together, but H clocks that he has eyes for Barbara.
NW #24 - Dick and Barbara solve a case (another favorite).
NW #25 - Tim asks about Barbara repeatedly, Dick tries to shoo him off. Fails.
BOP #4 - Dinah asks about Nightwing, Babs shoos her off. Successful (for now).
BOP #8 - Perfection.
Nightwing: Secret Files & Origins #1: “Orange You Glad I Didn’t Say Banana?” - Dick tells Barbara she was the first woman who took his breath away. Nice little DKG/Stelfreeze story.
NW #37 - Dick almost dies after liberating Blackgate, crashes on Barbara’s couch.
The Titans (1999) #9/Robin (1993) #71 - Dick recovers with Barbara. The scene with Tim, Dick, and Barbara in the latter is my favorite four pages in all of Robin ‘93.
NW #38-39 - Ballistic Romance, Dick and Barbara finally admit their feelings for each other (took you long enough). First Post-Crisis kiss—and man is it a good one.
BOP #15 - Dick fixes her door (not a euphemism), meets Jason Bard for the first time. It's always difficult to work Jason in because of that; either Barbara was playing that romance very close to the chest or he made absolutely zero effort to meet any of her friends.
NW #41 - Clancy sees the photo of Dick and Babs, runs off in tears.
BOP #19 - Dick shows up unannounced, and is locked in a holodeck so Tim can meet the Blue Beetle. Greatest story ever told.
Nightwing / Oracle - The Relationship
Dick/Babs is a great slowburn romance. It’s what we love about them. It also makes figuring out when exactly they started dating…controversial we’ll say.
We don’t have a smoking gun, “they start dating here” issue. Batman: Gotham Knights (2000) #17 has Dick tell Bruce they’re dating, but that feels pretty late in the game. With no better option, I’ll start with the first time their titles properly overlapped with The Hunt for Oracle. There isn’t as much D/B here as you might expect, but it’s as good as any to start the discussion. Following that (and an arc with Dinah being held captive in Gorilla City alongside Lady Vic and Deathstroke), we see Barbara turn away the other suitor in Ted Kord. Now it’s just Dick. At this point they’re together, they just haven’t really told anyone yet.
To avoid bouncing around, I will break this up into two sections: the cute bits and the serious bits. First, the cute.
The moment when Donna walks into Dick talking to Oracle and clocks that they’re seeing each other is lovely (The Titans ‘99 #28). As is their next appearance in Titans (#39), when Dick and Barbara have a heart-to-heart after a movie. Not really relationship relevant, but sweet. Dick telling Bruce he and Barb are involved is very…in-character for everyone (Gotham Knights #17). The issue immediately following has a great moment where Bruce keeps pinging Barbara’s comm, only for a shirtless Dick to tell him to go find someone else to bother. If you look closely, you’ll see Barbara’s lipstick is a bit smudged. Interesting.
That brings us to D/B intimacy, which is much less prevalent than one might expect. Dixon was adamant about not wanting overly sexual content in his superhero comics, which coming off NTT gave me whiplash. One thing I’ll give that series is that it was very frank about sex. Refreshingly so. Here, there’s a lot of “kiss → fade to black” implied content. BOP #35 ends like that. Nightwing: Our Worlds At War #1 has a moment like that–a great issue for their relationship by the way.
In the Nightwing 80 Page Giant, there’s a scene where Dick stops by Barbara’s apartment. He scoops her up out of her chair and gives her a kiss, and then Babs makes a comment that he should come back around in his police uniform sometime. Thus begins D/B’s long-running shared kink. Great issue, though I’m partial to Nightwing’s small and painfully obscure rogues gallery so perhaps I’m biased. I think Hella is hella cool.
The most clear “and then they had sex” moment to me under Dixon is during Nightwing: Shrike, from NW #55 going into 56. Dick visits Barbara, there’s a fade to black, then the next day/issue Black Canary comes over and catches Dick in the shower. Barbara swears up and down nothing happened (and a flashback shows Dick on the couch), but I don’t buy this. @theartofdreaming1 did a whole post trying to pin down when Dick & Barbara’s first time together might have been. It’s a great post on D/B intimacy in general, so I suggest you check it out if that interests you!
That was fun, but let’s talk a bit more substantively. I don’t just like Dick/Babs because they are cute; I like them because they’re both willing to push and call the other out when they think they’re wrong. That's something you don't get from any of their other romances, and generally just don't see much of these days. I like when characters have beliefs and hold firm to them; it's probably why I like Batman comics so much because every little side character has their own opinions and is willing to beat someone else over them. It's great. Here, it's rich character development.
During Officer Down (NW #53), Dick calls out Barbara for considering lethal force against the guy who shot her father. He reminds her of their code. In both Bruce Wayne: Murderer Turned Fugitive and Gotham Knights: Tabula Rasa, they have extended arguments about Batman, what he’s capable of, and his effect on the city–neither shrinking from their position. Joker: Last Laugh has all that and then some, it’s kind of the Dick/Babs event, though it doesn’t end great for their relationship. BOP #36 sees Barbara try to talk to Dick about almost killing the Joker, but he shuts her down and lashes out by saying, “Don’t make me regret putting an elevator in this building.” It’s rough.
So we don’t end on a low note, I want to revisit Shrike briefly. It’s probably Dixon’s best Nightwing arc, even if the inconsistent art is annoying. Not only do we get the moment I talked about earlier, but Barbara writes Dick a love note that moves me every time I read it. Here is the full text, from NW #57:
My dearest darling, I hope you don’t mind this note. I just wanted you to know I love the new closeness we have. It’s making it possible for me to see we have a future. For the first time in a long time, I look forward to tomorrow. All my love, B.
Woof. I love that. (Again–not buying the “we didn’t do anything,” Babs!) Barbara and Dinah later help Dick defeat Shrike, then Dick recovers in her bed (again).
Damn, now that’s a kiss. (NW #58)
The stories:
Nightwing/Birds of Prey: The Hunt for Oracle - Oracle is targeted by Blockbuster, it’s up to Nightwing and Black Canary (mostly BC) to save her. Great story. At this point it’s becoming clear Dick/Babs is inevitable.
BOP #25 - Barbara tells Ted she’s talking to someone else.
NW 80 Page Giant #1 - Dick gives Barbara a very passionate kiss, then Babs tells him to come back in his police uniform.
NW #53 - Dick confronts Barbara after her father is shot. Reminds her that they can have justice OR vengeance. Good issue.
The Titans (1999) #28 - Dick tells Donna (his best friend) that he’s seeing Oracle.
Nightwing: Shrike - Nightwing is kidnapped by an old foe from Robin: Year One; Barbara and Dinah have to rescue him. Babs writes him a beautiful love note.
Gotham Knights (2000) #17 - Dick tells Bruce that he’s seeing Barbara.
GK #18 - Bruce, out of boredom and loneliness, keeps pestering Barbara. Eventually Dick tells him to leave them alone. Barb’s lipstick is noticeably smudged.
Harley Quinn (1999) #10-12 - Dick is upset that Harley is pretending to be Batgirl.
Nightwing: Our Worlds at War #1 - Dick and Barbara travel through time and have a lot of sex. Great issue.
NW #60 - Barbara teases Dick about Amy after he finds out she wasn’t flirting and has a family. Dumbass.
BOP #35 - Dick embraces Barbara at the end.
Joker: Last Laugh - Dick tries to take Barbara somewhere nice; it does not end well.
NW #62 - shows Dick at Barbara’s hospital bedside after she was shot. Firmly establishes Annual #2 cannot happen. That and basic timelines and logic and reason.
BOP #36 - Barbara tries to help Dick come to terms with almost killing the Joker. He dismisses her and tells her, “Don’t make me regret putting that elevator in.”
Bruce Wayne: Murderer Turned Fugitive - Dick and Barbara take opposite sides of “could Bruce have killed Vesper Fairchild?”
The Titans (1999) #39 - Movie night.
GK: Tabula Rasa - They get stuck in traffic and argue about if Batman creates his own villains. They may have showered together.
Nightwing & Batman II / Oracle - The Break-Up
We move from the fun parts to the decidedly not fun parts. The slow erosion of Dick/Babs was pitiful to reread. To give Devin Grayson her due, I actually think she handled most of it pretty well. I didn’t like it, but it was written well. The interim BOP issues between Dixon and Simone? Incoherent. I could not follow the plot by the end. Barbara goes on dates with some jagoff loser we never see again. Thankfully, Simone did a lot of work after the fact to remind the readers why D/B was good to start.
Let’s just jump right in: Nightwing #87. They break up. I see a lot of people say the “real” break-up to NW #100/BOP #76, but frankly I don’t see the point. She says they maybe shouldn’t see each other anymore, and with the exception of the next two issues they don't. It's effectively over already, the messages they leave are just a nicer way of mutually ending it. Barbara is the one to break it off, explaining that Dick is living too much in the past. Remember that beautiful note from Shrike? Yeah, that was for naught. Now, I don’t think that’s as unreasonable as it sounds at first. Dick had done a lot of reminiscing throughout their relationship, but I do think DKG slightly overstated it. Still, it works well enough. Her run is good, at least the first half. Don’t just believe what people on the Internet say about comics. If the past year has taught me anything, it’s that people will speak very confidently about things they’ve never read. Hence why I’m putting in all these citations! So you can check my work!
They break up. It’s sad. In BOP #61, Black Canary figures it out and tries to comfort Babs. In Nightwing, his life is being slowly ruined by K-Mart Kingpin. The issue following the break-up sees Firefly burn down Haly’s Circus and kill a bunch of innocent people. Dick is devastated, and goes to see Babs…only to break down at the sight of her. She holds him as he weeps, and #89 shows us that he stayed the night, but Babs thinks that was a bad idea. She’s trying not to play with his emotions, but it’s messy. Messy, but fascinating.
If you’ll allow me, dear reader, I’d like to make a request of anyone who found this guide useful for D/B Week '25: if you’re struggling with a fic or art idea for one of the prompts, may I suggest incorporating this? That night between #88 and 89 of Nightwing must have been the most awkward, emotionally draining 10-12 hours they’d been through together. They just broke up, Dick just saw his childhood and greatest trauma go up in flames, and Barbara even thinks that the previous night was a mistake. Why? What did they say? What didn’t they say? Did something happen? I must know, dear reader. I’ve already decided what my D/BW contributions will be, and frankly I do not feel like revisiting this era so soon again, having just finished my reread in early December. But if you need some inspiration, I humbly suggest that you look at these issues.
Throughout the rest of DKG’s Nightwing, Dick will think about Barbara and how much he’s screwed up. If I’m being frank, everything after Blockbuster’s death is pretty lackluster. It all just compounds until the end, when the city is erased by Infinite Crisis. As I mentioned earlier, BOP dealt with things much better. Gail Simone took over the book and gave it some direction, including for Barbara and her relationship. She gets Brainiac cancer and nearly dies twice. Issue 71 has a flashback of Dick and Barbara in bed, where she calls him the most caring, beautiful, and loving man she’s ever met. In #86, just after Brainiac was purged from her body, she and Dick plan a date. Maybe things are getting back on track? Back over in Nightwing, Blüdhaven is blown up. This was a grievous error the book that will not fully recover from until Rebirth. In DKG’s final issue, she has Dick propose to Barbara.
Cut to One Year Later, and we see Dick in bed with a beautiful redhead. A redhead…with brown eyes. It’s not Babs. It’s a new character, Cheyanne Freemont. In other words, it's a cheap fake out. Still mad about that. It takes a few issues into Bruce Jones’ run to find out anything as to why the engagement was called off, but we don’t get anything concrete. The following run by Marv Wolfman also only hints, never tells.
It’s not until the very infamous Nightwing Annual #2 that we see how and why the engagement was called off. It comes down to Babs not feeling ready, and feeling that Dick wasn’t ready either.
It took all that waffling to come up with this?
That’s not the controversial part, of course. No, that’s the retcon of Dick sleeping with Barbara the night before his failed wedding to Starfire. It’s awful, and it’s offensive that the one time we see Dick and Barbara be intimate while she’s still in her chair it's this nonsense…but it doesn’t matter. At least, not to us. You see, being a stickler for continuity has its downsides. Mostly in being told “continuity doesn’t matter” when the person saying that clearly doesn’t understand or even believe what they’re saying. Also having to remember every little detail of every comic you read when you can barely remember what year it is. But there is a very particular benefit that I will take any day of the week, and that is being able to say “this definitively cannot happen.” Not because it's out-of-character, or because it's bad, but because claim itself is nonsense that doesn't align with any version of events you can come up with.
Do you want to know something about Nightwing Annual #2? Aside from trying to retroactively ruin Dick’s relationships with both Barbara and Koriand’r, it has some of the worst continuity I’ve seen in a modern comic book. You see, this issue posits that Dick couldn’t see Barbara after she was shot because he was on Tamaran, and then went to see her the night before his wedding so he could invite her in person. Interesting, shall we break this down?
The Tamaran arc of New Teen Titans came out in 1985-86. This was mid-Crisis on Infinite Earths, and it's why Dick and Kory aren’t present at the end of COIE.
Barbara was shot in The Killing Joke in 1988. Jason would be killed later that year.
The wedding was in 1993; the morning of the ceremony Dick was told that Bruce had his back broken.
Do you see an issue?
Actually, if he had just gone through the Tamaran arc it might make a bit of sense! That was one of Dick’s lowest moments in NTT, Starfire just married another man for political reasons, only for Blackfire to usurp power anyway. Dick is spiraling after that issue, hell he gets into a fistfight with Donna. I could see Dick seeking out Barbara for comfort, seeing what happened to her, and in a moment of weakness and pain they make a mistake and compromise their friendship. Hence why they don’t speak for the rest of NTT.
But…that’s not what is written, and it is not my job to fix 20 year old comics. And even still, the marriage thing. That’s very specifically 1993. Tim attends the wedding. Bruce can’t because his back was broken. You can’t get around that. Either that’s just wrong, or Zero Hour/Infinite Crisis erased every Titans story from 1985 to 1993. I doubt it. Even if you tried to say, “well maybe they meant the 1990 annual,” you’re telling me that annual took six months? That singular annual? Six months? No. And Jason was already well dead at that point, and that happened after TKJ. AND the wedding still wouldn’t happen until the entire team roster was different and several real-world years passed. No.
Being charitable, the writer may have been thinking of Who is Wonder Girl? (The New Titans 1984 #50-55) which is the story that was going on as A Death in the Family was occurring. Dick was off-planet and only learned about Jason’s death when he returned.
Fun fact: the Batman Roleplaying Game mentions Dick was in space…and hadn’t heard about the death yet! Meaning that book was written before TNT ‘84 #55. I started reading that a few weeks back and my jaw hit the floor when I saw that. Anyway, back to the toilet bowl.
Still, that’s 1988. Doesn’t fit with the wedding. The events they mention are too damn specific to ignore, and any way you stretch the timeline it cannot stretch that far. This issue was so intent on making this shocking revelation that no one bothered to check if anything they wrote even makes sense. If it was either the six months or the wedding, you'd be able to make it work, regardless of if this was a good idea (it obviously isn't). But no. This is like if you're writing a paper about the attack on Pearl Harbor, and then you make a big deal about President John F. Kennedy's speech to Congress about leading the world against Saddam Hussein. What? Maybe to an AI that's spot on, but I think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.
I have zero issue discarding this issue wholesale, some of the other flashbacks are okay, the letter Barbara writes is decent, but I would rather have no explanation for the second break-up than this explanation. At least nothing doesn’t try to bend space and time to make Dick cheat on Kory and pre-ruin his relationship with Barb. Also Nightwing #62 published before and BOP #127 published after both show Dick at Barbara’s bedside after she was shot. So like checkmate? Get fucked, even?
Again, not to end on a low note, let’s talk about four good things. First, the ending to the 1996 Nightwing ongoing. The Origins & Omens segment has Dick take Barbara flying again, this time though he’s a bit more literal: they go skydiving. Next, there wasn’t much Dick/Babs during the Batman Reborn era, but we did get the second arc of Batgirl (2009). It’s a lot of bickering, honestly this is the most they feel like exes, but the ending is very sweet. This feels like an end to D/B, but it wasn’t.
Batman: The Black Mirror is my favorite Dick-as-Batman story, and it has a great deal of D/B. Snyder has his own completely incomprehensible retcons, like Dick taking Barbara to prom (which someone expanded on later yet still got wrong) and Sarah Essen being in Jim’s life while Barbara was still a kid, but unlike that dreadful annual, these are theoretically possible and don’t ruin anything. Someone could find a way to weave these together, even if they probably won’t.
Retcons aside, this is a great story. Really highlights the differences between Dick and Bruce as Batmen, and the relationships between all the Gordons and Dick. Dick and Barb have a few fun conversations, but for my money the important moment is right at the end. ‘Tec #881, this moment when Dick holds her after James, Jr. let her nearly bleed to death, I think this is when Dick fell for her all over again. I see it in his eyes, the “goddamnit I still love her” look.
Finally, the end to Post-Crisis. Kind of. Close enough. In an event no one even remembers the details of (Convergence 2015), cities from across timelines and universes are pitted against each other. It’s during this apocalypse that Dick does as he’s inclined to do, and proposes to Barbara. This time, however, she accepts and he carries her off into the sunset (Convergence: Nightwing & Oracle #1-2)! This was the last comic I read in 2025, and honestly it holds up. Just as good as I remember. Also Jan Duursema drawing Dick/Babs? What is this, heaven? I don’t blame people who call it here, I certainly should, but alas. I have chosen the way of pain.
The relevant issues:
NW #71-86 - They bicker a lot. A few decent moments, specifically #85 where Dick says he craves her touch. Important for laying the groundwork for the break-up.
BOP #47-55 - It’s dumb and very bad. Barbara goes on dates with some guy.
NW #87 - The break-up, or at least the last time they’re actively seeing each other. I count this as the end.
BOP #61 - Dinah learns they broke up.
NW #88-89 - Dick goes to Barbara for comfort. Flash (Dick’s best friend) sees Barbara.
Batman: War Games - Dick feels all kinds of guilt about Catalina and Babs and blahblahblah.
BOP #71 - Barbara talks about her relationship in retrospect. Great issue.
NW #100 / BOP 76 - They leave each other messages, the official break-up by some reckonings.
NW #107 & 109 - Dick has a photo of Barbara and talks about it.
BOP #86 - Dick and Barbara have their first real conversation after their break-up.
NW #114 - Arsenal (Dick’s best friend) reaches out to Barbara to see what’s up.
NW #117 - Dick proposes to Barbara (don’t get excited, do you see the rest of this list?)
NW #123 - Dick talks about his break-up to Clancy.
NW by Marv Wolfman - Mostly retrospective. Unlike BOP 71 nothing of much substance is said.
NW Annual #2 - Gave us details on why the engagement didn’t pan out. Has terrible continuity. Is bad. Begone with this!
BOP #108 Dick rocks up alongside a host of other heroes to help Babs.
BOP #109 Dinah throws their break-up in Barbara’s face.
NW #153 - Dick takes Barbara “flying” one last time.
BOP #127 - Shows us Dick at Barbara’s hospital bedside one last time. Annual #2 definitely cannot happen.
Batgirl (2009) #5-7 - D/B as exes. Ends better than it starts.
Batman: Black Mirror - I think this is where Dick falls for her all over again.
Convergence: Nightwing & Oracle - Ending to the Post-Crisis universe if you so choose.
Nightwing / Batgirl - The New 52 & Rebirth
Now to talk about the Zitka in the room (or Elinore if you’re more 1940s inclined), because of Infinite Frontier DC’s continuity is a bit…hazy. Mark Waid’s The New History of the DC Universe cleared up the big points–the jist of what happened–but the details that we’re interested in are pretty sparse. Many writers and artists (Nightwing very specifically) have acted like Infinite Frontier was a de facto return to Post-Crisis, even if it’s not supposed to be. Fans as well. To tell you the truth, I’ve grown to see the New 52 and Rebirth in the same way I view Pre-Crisis (and how Lucasfilm under Disney has treated the Expanded Universe): many of the stories happened, but not how we saw them AND the backstory is different.
I don’t think that’s the right way to approach things here, and on top of that while I just finished my Post-Crisis reread, I haven’t even started my New 52 readthrough. Going off of 10-15 year old memories seems wildly inappropriate, so instead I’m going to direct you to some very detailed posts on Dick and Barbara’s relationship (at least what there was of it) from 2011 to 2021 by @seilnakyle. She goes issue by issue to break down their time apart during the New 52 and Rebirth; absolutely stellar work. Here is the first post she made, and then here is the beginning of the New 52 era.
I will include a list of issues I know to contain D/B, but you’ll have to forgive the lack of detailed content descriptions. I’ll do the ones I can remember.
The New 52 stories:
Batgirl (2011) #3 - Dick and Barbara reunite post-Flashpoint.
Nightwing (2011) #4
Batgirl #18
Batgirl #21
Nightwing Annual #1
Batgirl #30 - Barbara reflecting on Dick’s “death” after Forever Evil.
Grayson (2014) #2
Batgirl Annual 3
Batgirl #45 - Dick interrupts Barbara and Luke Fox’s date. Now I swear, I read an interview from the time of this issue’s release where Stewart and Tarr both say that in the New 52 timeline Dick and Barbara had never been together. I’ve been searching for a while now, and I just cannot seem to find it. Might I be looking in the wrong places? Probably. But I felt I should throw it out there, especially should I or anyone else find it later.
Grayson #12 - Lines and imagery ripped from BOP #8.
The Rebirth Stories:
There are a lot of bits and pieces, but the important issues are the aforementioned Batgirl: The Summer of Lies and the story by Marguerite Bennett from Batgirl (2016) #25 titled “Hopeless Romantic.” There are some moments in Nightwing and other issues of Batgirl, but those are the stories with substance. TSOL is trying to recanonize Dick & Barbara’s young love (which half confirms my phantom article), and I remember being quite sweet. Right there in lies the issue, with Batgirl: Year One specifically mentioned in The New History, what do we need a redo, fix-what-New 52-broke version for now aside from being cute? Still, it is very cute.
Nighwing / Oracle & Batgirl - Infinite Frontier, Back Together
And so we come to the final section of our retrospective. Dick and Babs. Forever. Sounds pretty perfect.
But hold your horses, we have other matters to discuss!
Specifically, I want to tackle the Teen Titans Academy stuff before we get too far into Taylor and Redondo’s Nightwing. Short version: in TTA #2 Dick and Kory are getting dressed after presumably spending the night together, and Dick tells her that Barbara called so he has to go check on Bludhaven. Now there’s no continuity tricks to get out of this one, no “um sweaty” in sight. What’s my read then? How do we smooth this over to not make everyone involved look bad? I have a theory, and stick with me, but I think this issue took place before Leaping into the Light. Why do I say this? Because despite being published after (by a couple of days for the first issue and a month for the second), Dick doesn't have a dog as of issue 5. So that first arc of TTA could be placed before Taylor's run quite comfortably, since he gets Haley in the first issue. Plus the dialogue between him and Kory makes it sound like he hasn't been to the 'Haven in a while. That's more of a read than it is proof, but you can't get around the dog thing. If anyone is interested, I can do a full breakdown of this later, preferably after rereading Taylor and TTA.
On to the good bits!
I should be upfront: I loved Tom Taylor and Bruno Redondo’s run on Nightwing. I do; sue me. And no, it’s not the Dick/Babs stuff (though that certainly doesn’t hurt). It’s just that when it was coming out I had stopped reading comics for almost two years, and this run helped me get back into it. It made me feel like I was home again. And alongside DWJ’s Transformers, it made me get into monthlies like I never had before. I do not and never have cared for Heartless, but I was very happy to see Blockbuster gone again. I could probably cover almost every single issue of the run, since Taylor includes little D/B moments throughout, but for now I just want to talk about the important ones as well as my favorites.
They start talking again after Barbara brings Dick a letter from Alfred, who died while Dick was Ric. That first issue (#78) is great, Dick picks up a puppy, Barbara makes a face, and the letter to Dick nearly kills me. Good times. Alfred was secretly a billionaire (which I think we all kind of figured, Bruce seems like the type to just say “here take this”), and gave all of it to Dick. Dick decides to create a foundation in Alfred's name to help make Blüdhaven safer and more livable. Just before he makes his announcement to the press, and to get rid of the pre-speech jitters, Barbara gives Dick a kiss…for good luck of course. Nothing else. (#83)
Jumping ahead a couple of issues to Fear State (#85), after a minor hallucination Barbara kisses Dick again with even less pretense. Just very happy he’s alive. Now up to this point since #79, we’d seen Dick stay on the couch while Barbara slept in his bed. However, in #89 they’re sharing a bed. As much as I am loath to do so, I actually don’t read much into this. I can very easily see them arguing, “I’m not putting you out of your own bed for a full week.” / “Barbara, I’m not letting you sleep on my uncomfortable couch with your back the way it is.” until they compromise and sleep together…back to back. And clothed. I rule this platonic still, but the pretense is starting to break. It nearly comes apart entirely in #93 when Dick just blurts out, “I love you.”
However, it is not until Nightwing #96 that I start counting them as being back together. Call me pedantic, call me conservative (actually don’t), but I think all previous shenanigans can be waved away by Dick and Barbara’s individual mental gymnastics. They’re almost as good at those as they are the real thing.
“What’s a kiss between friends?”
“We didn’t sleep together…we just slept together.”
“So I love her, I love Bruce and Tim and Damian too! Doesn’t mean anything.”
“We keep making out, but like…we’re not…together…so it’s fine.”
But there's no room for maneuvering after Barbara's speech in #96. It’s great, I love it. It had me more pumped than a 1980s training montage. A complete rejection of that stupid, “we can’t date because you might be in danger” garbage that writers have tried to pull since the dawn of superhero comics. I hate that trope, and having Barbara laugh at it directly is kino, let me tell you. Then the “Dick and Babs. Forever.” / “That sounds pretty perfect.” / “You’re worth dying for, Boy Wonder.” then kiss. Mm, I live for this.
Now @zahri-melitor did a fantastic breakdown of their getting back together from an in-universe perspective. Why it makes sense for Barbara to feel and speak this way, and how it fits into the paradigm set since the New 52. I’m not even going to try to match it, go read it here. I think this is a great read on the issue and the evolution of D/B.
Instead, I’m going to attack this from the out-of-universe position for once. Why this was necessary and felt earned. Really, why Taylor’s run worked as well as it did, at least for me. It’s quite simple, this is a walking back of all the mistakes made about Nightwing since 2003.
Quality of the writing aside, because again it was good, the decisions made about Nightwing in the mid-2000s were wrong. Across the board the wrong call. Not in a "I disagree with this" way, but in the "this book doesn't function now" way. A lot of the Bat-Titles were subject to wrong decisions. I think the murder of Jack Drake was the wrong decision, the death of Stephanie Brown as well. Making Cassandra Cain evil for half a year. Wrong. They made the books less engaging. Nightwing was subject to four:
The end of Dick/Babs
The death of most of Dick's supporting cast
The sidelining of all the Dixon era rogues
The destruction of Blüdhaven
Every single one of these was the wrong call, with the most egregious being Blüdhaven (which wasn't Devin Grayson's idea, for the record). Dick was supposed to die in Infinite Crisis, so no one was too concerned about him losing his city. But he didn't, and the rest of the series is so much lesser without the 'Haven. And the supporting cast. And the rogues, and the romance.
Honestly, Dick/Babs was the least of it. Was it annoying they were broken up? Absolutely. Did it tank the book? No. But without Babs (and his neighbors, and the assassins), Dick felt directionless. Like they were throwing stuff at the wall until something stuck. Even Peter J. Tomasi’s run, which probably had the best writing for Dick as a character, suffered because NYC is just not as interesting a setting for Nightwing as Blüdhaven. And it never will be! Imagine if they decided to put Lois on a bus, kill the rest of the Daily Planet bullpen, then put all the rogues and Metropolis in the Sun. And then you just have 15 years of Superman stories where he's in Los Angeles, but they never nail down a cast and can only come up with the lamest villains you've ever seen. It'd suck! And this? This era sucked.
New 52 couldn't be bothered, but they did bring back the 'Haven for Rebirth–and gave it a very cool new aesthetic–but it was a slow walkback. Here, we've decided to effectively run this like we're just continuing on without worrying about all the crap the book's been through. Good! Let's just tell some Nightwing stories! That's all I want!
If we can get almost 90 years of Batman in Gotham City fighting Joker, chasing Catwoman, and meeting Commissioner Gordon next to the batsignal I think we should be allowed to have Nightwing in Blüdhaven fighting Lady Vic, chasing Double Dare, and talking to Oracle over comms for at least 50.
ANYWAY. Back to the goods.
Unlike me, Dick and Babs don’t waste any time. In #97, they take Sal Maroni to a safehouse, tranquilize him, and then have raucous marathon sex long enough for him to wake up. The next issue Nite-Mite tries to marry them, but they don’t want to go that fast.
Issue 105 is actually my favorite in the whole run. I love the POV gimmick, I think Redondo does some of his finest work here–every single panel of Babs looks gorgeous–and most of all it has Double Dare! As the world’s singular Double Dare stan (there’s probably some irony in there somewhere), this pleases me greatly. I also like the new costumes Redondo gave them. Someone swapped their names around, but again as the only Double Dare fan I am likewise the only one who cares or noticed. Best of all, we have Barbara disguise herself as one half of DD. Greatest issue of all time.
For the relationship stuff, we have Dick saving her from falling off the train, some cute banter, and another “wake up in bed” scene, but this one is just breathtaking. God I love this issue. One of these days I’ll go page by page, but for now I just wanted to shout this one out.
Finally, the last issue, #118. After all the crap Heartless has put Dick through, he finally gets a reprieve right at the very end. He goes to visit his parents' grave, and "introduces" them to Barbara. It's a touching moment, and of course we appreciate that he says, "I hope I get to marry her one day." We end with our lovebirds (and Haley) looking up into the 'Haven skyline, replaced by Starry Night. Cheers, one and all.
As I said at the start of this, we won't cover Watters and Soy's run just yet. There are some nice D/B moments in Batgirls, which was a series I enjoyed for what it was, but all of the important and interesting moments happened in Nightwing under Taylor.
Here's the final list:
Nightwing (2016) #78 - Barbara comes to Blüdhaven to read Alfred’s will to Dick. Dick takes in a puppy, and later names her Haley.
NW #83 - Barbara kisses Dick (for good luck).
NW #85 - First real kiss.
NW #89 - Dick and Barbara are woken up in bed together (don’t get too excited, this reads more as a “I won’t have you sleep on the couch” / “I won’t kick you out of bed” situation. Remember: restraint!)
NW #93 - Dick blurts out “I love you” to Barbara, tries to walk it back out of embarrassment. Very cute.
NW #96 - This is where I start their resumed relationship. Barbara’s speech plus the kiss; this makes the most sense to me.
NW #97 - After bringing Maroni to a safehouse and tranqing him, Dick and Barbara make love long enough to outlast the sedative.
NW #98 - Nite-Mite tries to give them a wedding using his 5th dimensional powers; they turn him down.
NW 2022 Annual - Barbara wears something special enough to lure Dick away from watching Haley for a date.
NW #100 - Dick wants Barbara to change the world with him, and she accepts his offer.
NW #105 - Told from Dick’s POV, opens with Dick & Babs waking up together, monstrously cute. Includes Double Dare. My favorite TT/BR issue.
NW #118 - Dick goes to his parents grave and introduces Babs as “the girl I hope I marry someday.” Issue/run ends with Dick and Barbara (and Haley) cuddling under Starry Night.
Conclusion
There we have it! This took me waaay longer than I intended, but I hope you, dear reader, got some use out of it. Dick and Barbara are my second favorite comics couple after Superman & Lois, and it was nice to sit down and go through all of this history and talk about their best stories and moments together. Depending on how much I get read this month, I may revisit this post to do follow-ups for the 1970s Batman Family comics as well as the New 52 & Rebirth once I finish those. I guess I really can't get enough of these two chuckleheads.
In any case, whether you're reading this trying to come up with ideas for art or a story for D/B week, curious about their timeline, or just couldn't remember which issue they went back in time in, I hope I was able to help in some small way! If you'll excuse me, the comics on my desk won't read themselves.
Yes, I do miss them. For me they were these rare couple between two people who had actual story together. Not just see each other and fall in love, but go through shit and fall in love. I also love the idea that a man and a woman can be soulmates and also equals in power level and importance in the story, without the need the one to be diminished so the other to thrive. They were the real power duo.
oliver’s thoughts on avalance or just Ava in general?
saw your opinion on the ship a while back and agreed with you
felicity would get along with her and given how jealous ava gets it probably wouldn’t go well
Phu... that's a difficult question. I don't think he's ever met her but I've only seen Arrow up to 6.01, so maybe he did, but let's say he hasn't it would mean all he knows about her is what Sara told him. So it depends on how honest she is with him. Which depends on how she wants him to feel about Ava since Oliver's opinion is very important to her.
But I think if he was under the impression Ava made Sara happy he'd be happy for her and grateful for Ava being someone in Sara's life that brought her happiness, stability and a place to let her guard down. That Sara has someone who loves her. This is my hopefully objective take on the question.
Now on to a more biased one ;)
I think if Oliver had met Ava and witnessed the way she talked to and treated Sara at times he would not like her, he'd stay out of it (mostly) it was Sara's choice, but he wouldn't necessarily support or be on board with the relationship. Kinda like the whole Nyssa thing. He'd have a very strong opinion but wouldn't share it with Sara unless she asked.
I also feel that if Sara knew how Felicity talked to and treated Oliver at times she'd be a lot less fond of her.
Oliver and Sara are very protective of each other and they don't appreciate the other getting disrespected or put down.
And yeah, Ava would hate Oliver and therefore not make a great first impression. Her reaction to his death said it all; completely tasteless, cruel and disgusting.
Huh, just realized Oliver was the only one of Sara's partners who wasn't extremely possessive of her.
I think Felicity and Ava would get along to a point. I think if Ava let Felicity know her opinion of Oliver and potentially say something crass about Sara or Sara and Oliver that Felicity would put her in her place. Felicity has many faults but she adores Sara and I don't think she'd stand for that. And since she has no control over her mouth she'd tell Ava exactly what she thought of her comments. But I might be wrong, that's just the impression I have and I try to be fair to Felicity, even though I really can't stand her character from Season 3 onwards.
I hope this answered your question :) thank you for asking.
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