Recently I made a post about how female characters who don’t meet Hoyo’s standards got treated by the game and fandom…and today I’ll point out the another side of the coin and why it’s equally messed up. Aka the women with a lot of genuine complexity behind them but that gets shoved aside in order to put those “ideal and appealing girl” stereotypes front and center.
Spoilers under the cut not just for Nod-Krai, but also a lot of stuff past the Liyue Archon Quest in general:
-For example, what do you mean Lan Yan comes from a family that studied arcane arts (the Qimen arts) and has connections to the Eight Adepts, is so skilled at her crafts that even the adepti were impressed by her, had to contend with the grief of feeling a shadow over Liyue Harbor during 5.3 Lantern Rite, developed her own ways of letting negative feelings pass through her heart without hurting herself or others around her (a rarity for genshin characters tbh), and has some troubles with being separated from her main family branch…and all that’s shoved to the side in favor of “Omg she already knows and praises the Traveler when they first meet! She’s so nice and reliable towards them! Such an ideal and good girl!” in most of her on-screen appearances?
-Kuki Shinobu has a sweet concept of seeing the Arataki gang more as family than her own bio family, thanks to them letting her escape a life chosen for her and not judging her along the way…and yet the bulk of her time spent with them relies on that one sitcom dynamic of “bumbling man (in this case four of them) needs a responsible woman to keep him in check” and how much she needs to be the role model of the group because that’s what’s expected of East Asian girls in a lot of upbringings, especially alongside boys.
-Lauma’s people are the Frostmoon Scions, whose ancestors fled Hyperborea after the Celestial Nail fell on it (also the city where the Fae originated, let’s put a pin in that) and she’s a pretty prominent figure as their current Moonchanter. She not only is tasked with keeping ancient knowledge and secrets alive, she’s also an incredible leader who can turn the tables without needing to resort to violence and aggression (especially when dealing with the Fatui who are actively oppressing her people), and she’s smart enough to realize something’s off about the Traveler’s “sibling” and throws a wrench in Rerir’s plans. She’s also seriously conflicted because of her knowledge that the skies are fake, which burdens her with heavy feelings that she doesn’t want to pass onto others because her role as the Moonchanter also means being an inspiration 24/7 so her people don’t lose hope. In the first act of the Archon Quest, her fears are founded when a lot of the Scions jumped ship after confessing what she knew, and she had to deal with her longtime friend switching sides because she couldn’t take the pressure anymore. But none of that’s interesting enough…let’s focus on how “strong” she is for going through all that with the only real support being glazing (before Luna II anyway) and not give consequences to anyone who contributed to that (I’ve lost track of how many women Hoyo has written like this so they can be comforted by the amazing Traveler, not again)! The real important part is how “nice and reliable” (see the pattern here?) she is for instantly forgiving the Traveler for deceiving her, (especially with what she had to deal with when her childhood friend also left her)! Oh, and the Traveler notes that she has scars from using her blood to heal others, but we can’t have that on her in-game model cause that would make her…imperfect. Something also bothers me about how Flins’s line about her is often reduced to him “simping for her” and “harboring a secret crush” by the fandom…when the Fae also had Hyperborean origins and looking at her reminds him of the lost city. He of all people would be aware of what her role as the Moonchanter represents and is trying to keep alive, and has a genuine admiration and respect for what she carries and the burden she bears. But noooo, let’s reduce it to “Lauma simp lol” instead of exploring a potential dynamic where Lauma can feel safe enough to not have to swallow down her troubles all the time.
-Ganyu literally lived through the Archon War and fought in it which still affects her centuries later, lost a lot of people throughout the years including her father, works hard at her job because it’s the only thing that remains unchanged in a world that constantly shifts and it’s become her anchor to normalcy over all those years (hence why she breaks down when she’s put on leave), has a genuinely sweet relationship with the Tianshu and his family, is pretty adept at political chess which she uses to her advantage in her Story Quest, and finds that there’s more reason for her to fight for Liyue and Rex Lapis than her contract…and the focus tends to be on how “nice and reliable and gf material” she is by the fandom, especially next to the “colder and more unfriendly” Ningguang, on top of some really demeaning crap about her weight in-game???
-Nilou was one of the few dedicated supporters of Kusanali in a nation that refused to let go of their idealized image of Rukkhadevata, and made it known with her dances and public acknowledgment of the Sabzeruz festival even if she knows she’ll face backlash for it. She cherishes the community she’s built in the theater troupe, and is willing to step up to protect it in any way she can - including honing a skill that she had little to no prior experience in, like debate. And before that, she’s wise enough to admit that she isn’t great at debating, but is willing to accept that and try to learn to do so anyway - it’s always nice when a character can take an L with grace, you know? Nilou fits into the nation of wisdom in a crucial way - she’s self-aware enough to face her own shortcomings and learn from them, she’s aware enough of others to empathize with their circumstances and acknowledge how her actions can affect their livelihood, she knows what she stands for without being pressured into it and refuses to cave in to pressure to go with the status quo, and she’s quick-witted enough to learn to debate within a few days, not to mention how quickly she picks up her intricate dance sequences. And she’s one of the very few people who didn’t immediately jump to conclusions about Alhaitham, who she’s fairly accepting of even when she’s weirded out by his attitude. Also because I’ve seen a lot of the fandom assume that she can’t lift a finger to defend herself…did everyone just forget about the combat sequence in her Story Quest where she joins the Traveler to fight some tigers that were attacking her friend? Unfortunately that’s all often shoved aside for how “nice and reliable” she is to the Traveler, to the point the fandom often reduces her to a Traveler simp with no personality. And that’s really unfair to her.
-Skirk is Tartaglia’s long-hyped master in the Abyss who taught him everything he knows about combat, and she lives up to it in her Story Quest and her gameplay. She’s also a unique character in that she’s not of this world, yet not a descender either - her homeworld was destroyed, and she ended up in the Abyss where she was tormented by Surtalogi as part of her “combat training” which even led to her having to replace lost limbs to keep on going. Even then, she’s far from an unfeeling person at all - she still harbors guilt over being the only person to survive her homeland’s destruction, she refuses to form relationships because of Surtalogi’s promise that he’ll destroy any connections she makes while she watches which messed with the way she navigates the world, yet she still can’t push down fond memories of her time with her family (including their love for music) and her care for her disciple. She also has a goal of being strong enough to defeat Surtalogi one day before he can make good on that promise, so that maybe she’ll finally be free to connect with others on her own terms. But who cares about all that, time to showcase how special the Traveler and Paimon can be by having them melt her icy heart and teach her to embrace the love that’s waiting for her (TM), even after they did questionable things such as give her a nasty nickname and think to take her to a stranger’s house even though they know she doesn’t like new people. Her circumstances are treated like they can be healed with the “right, special person” when deep scars like that cannot just be forced out of someone’s mind, and doing so can make things worse. With how women who aren’t all bubbly and friendly are treated (like I said in my last post), watching Skirk’s story go down like that was a bit unsettling.
In all these cases, these characters are mainly treated like the most important thing to them are “omg so nice and reliable and ideal, especially to the special Traveler!” as if focusing on anything else about them or applying nuance to their “nice” qualities might make them “less appealing” to the target audience, which often repeats the same shit without realizing what the implications are. I’m hoping more of the playerbase recognizes this and start giving more attention to the genuinely interesting traits these ladies have, and explore the potential they have with their personality traits rather than “so appealing to the Traveler.”
What would you think if Shinobu was revealed to be the electro sovereign?
Dude im pretty sure youve asked this on my main twt acc too LMFAOO
But i haven't really replied to it bc i forgot so ill reply here. Personally i like her being an ordinary human being, well shes not really ordinary but you get what i mean. Honestly, i wouldnt rlly feel anything if she turned out to be the electro sovereign, i just wouldnt care too much abt it. I like my Kuki Shinobu as deputy leader Kuki Shinobu 💖
Because personally I'm really conflicted on him; On one hand, I appreciate that he does stick to his guns on a lot of things and does occasionally give Paimon as much shit as she gives him even if it is only played for humour. Additionally, I like that he doesn't just roll over and bend backwards trying to please everyone, he likes his personality and sees no need to change it to fit how others think he ought to be.
On the other hand, I don't like how much of a gag character he's treated beyond his quest. His allergies are constantly made fun off, he's treated and depicted as being dumb as a rock, they basically turned him into an oversized baby outside of the chasm quest and his story. Speaking of him being stupid, I really, really hate that. Like, I can accept him maybe being under-educated in the sense that maybe teachers wouldn't have been tolerant off him or maybe just brushed him off as a problem child, it's shown in canon that Granny oni was the only one to properly accept him and she's been ostracised for that as well. But the fact that even his quest treat it as the fact he's only losing jobs regularly is because he's short-tempered and lazy. Yeah, he can be quite bombastic, but lazy? His whole quest was about going on the run and taking a hit for his family to prevent any more prejudice coming their way. He puts himself in harms way to save his friends in the chasm. He's headstrong, blunt, passionate, and really big hearted. Honestly I'd say he's actually quite emotionally intelligent compared to some characters and I really wish he wasn't just treated like a clown.
It’s a double-edged sword for me too. As a character, I find Itto pretty endearing, and I’m always happy to see a character who isn’t that academically strong still have a lot of good qualities (especially with how Chinese society still tends to learn towards academic success/high prestige = moral goodness). But I also feel like a lot of his treatment is treated as okay or even funny because of the way black sheep/delinquents get treated in Chinese communities, in a similar vein I’ve discussed with Kaeya.
Everyone’s heard of academic stereotypes when it comes to how East Asians and Chinese people tend to be portrayed, it’s always about the pressure to get good grades and the jokes about anything under 100% being failure getting treated as a funny. But what never seems to get explored properly is the other side of the coin: someone whose norm isn’t constant achievement, especially if they’re still living under that same high-pressure system as the people who do meet those standards. I was one of them in my public school years, and I hope I can provide some perspective. Even if I had a lot of trouble even keeping up with what was considered passing, saving face was still considered way more important than even considering why I might be struggling. I think that’s why Itto gets treated the way he does: not only does he suck at even keeping jobs, he also sucks at hiding his failures. Constantly. Now, he doesn’t seem to be embarrassed about them and doesn’t let the opinions of others stop him, and I think that’s one of his positive traits. But at least in the communities I grew up in, that wasn’t treated as a positive trait - it was treated like a terrifying and defiant trait by a lot of authority figures, and I think that contributes to his treatment by the Traveler and the narrative even if he’s a playable character. Like, I’ve had authority figures unleash a bucketload of rage at me for telling them no one actually cares if I had a couple of wrinkles in my jacket, it got that bad at times. Itto’s general lack of people pleasing might’ve also gotten him this treatment as well, because we’ve seen where Hoyo puts people-pleasing on their moral compass. Academic success could be counted as a form of people pleasing with where and how I grew up, and getting bad grades was often treated like you don’t care about your family’s reputation, thus it’s perfectly fine for everyone else to treat you like shit as retribution, including other kids raised to be people pleasers in your society /s. A lot of Itto’s positive qualities are seen as terrifying in a society where people are still caught up in that, and when you combine that with all the stereotypes about delinquents…yeah.
Also you’re spot on about Itto’s emotional intelligence: not only did he have his entire Story Quest where he understood that his friend wasn’t as sinister as initially thought, but when people are willing to point out to him where he fucked up, he actually takes a step back to reflect on it. While he has a lot more trouble with retaining that info than say, Kaeya or Yoimiya, he still tries, and since a bunch of kids consider him a safe person to be around, he’s definitely doing something right. I feel like he has more social skills than some of the characters who Hoyo pushes into that role without really showing it. And when it comes to other areas, sure, he messes up quite a bit, but I’ve noticed that a lot of other, academically “smart” characters have had similar fuck ups, and they’re not treated as any less smart for them (I.e. Mona’s this amazing astrologist, but couldn’t figure out the basics of how kids worked in her Story Quest and that bites her hard when she interacts with Klee). This brings up another grievance I’ve had with Genshin’s writing: when it comes to Genshin’s stereotypically academically “smart” characters, they rely way too hard on that aspect of them to point and go “they’re soooooo smart guys!”, and it’s often used in place of actually showing them applying that knowledge outside of big words, fancy experiments or anything related to books (I.e. Lisa, Albedo, a lot of the Akademiya, Sucrose, Rhinedottir, etc. rely on this a LOT, and I’m saying this as someone currently in a STEM field). Meanwhile, when it comes to characters who aren’t held up as academic geniuses, they tend to have their wit and application show up in their actions frequently and in multiple ways, and ironically they actually come across as much more believably intelligent than the ones above. Like Kaeya, Yoimiya, Kazuha, Thoma, Beidou, Nefer, Dehya, Jahoda, and Flins. Itto also falls into this category pretty neatly, because though he’s not shown to be particularly knowledgeable, he does actively try to apply what little info he has to the situation he’s in, even if they fall flat half the time, and I think that’s the important part. China’s emphasis on academic achievement definitely worsens this in my opinion, and even now, it’s been a slow process for younger generations to unlearn that.
Another aspect that makes Itto’s treatment hard to watch is that he has a lot of moments of genuine distress, but he’s still treated like an idiot like it’s some funny gag. He even gets smacked around a few times and it’s treated like “no really they love him so much!” I’ve talked about how much of a problem I’ve had with people insisting that someone in mental distress is an “idiot” in my Kaeya posts, and I feel like this happens a lot with Itto as well. It’s that weird tough love thing I’ve talked about in those posts, and the way Itto doesn’t bend easily to it would easily get him labeled as “difficult” and “hard to handle.” In reality, that’s a perfectly reasonable response to being treated like that, especially if a lot of your life involved people making assumptions about you without even letting you say a word to prove otherwise (and wouldn’t you know it…deciding someone in mental distress is an “idiot” is just another form of that trauma disguised as care, who would’ve guessed).
Also, while this isn’t really Itto’s fault…am I the only one who has some issues with his dynamic with Shinobu? It feels like one of those gendered dynamics I’ve already seen on sitcoms that I’m not fond of (bumbling male figure who needs a responsible woman to keep him in check/take care of him). Even here, Hoyo manages to fall into the exact same trap they did with previous characters they intended to be “strong women”: give her a stereotypically girlboss position or strength on the surface level, but when it comes to the rest of her writing, completely neglect to check their biases and just give her what Chinese society tends to idealize about women, which - shocker - is usually dehumanizing and demeaning no matter how much you point and go “look at her strong character trait we made her! So girlboss and feminist!” (For example: Noelle being a knight and being so strong she breaks her swords, but is completely idealized and called one of the “nicest people ever” for her inability to say “no” and being at everyone’s aid at any time, and even slipping up a bit is seen as a failure that’ll ruin her…terrible look in a society where women and girls suffer due to being expected to put everyone’s needs over their own no matter how “strong” she’s made out to be, and also she has a tendency to completely ignore people’s boundaries to help them which isn’t as kind as it’s held up as in the game, but that’s never treated like a real flaw, because that would be…bad. An important aspect of treating female characters with care is letting them have flaws without the duality of ideal vs irredemable). Shinobu’s whole thing is that she wants to escape a life that was chosen for her, and because the Arataki gang let her do that without judging her, she sees them more as family than her bio family, and on its own, that’s a really sweet and compelling concept. But Hoyo also decided to top it off with…oh, she’s also an overworked woman who does it for someone else’s sake to the point it’s reflected in her Elemental Skill shaving HP off when she starts her heal…and the boys need HER to keep them in line or else all hell will break loose because boys must be naturally rowdy and girls have to be role models…and she has to nag them…yippee. I’m also not that fond of how much she gets to call Itto and the rest of the gang “idiots”, especially with how ADHD-coded Itto comes off as, and the jokes about beating them up when they misbehave, and that’s something I wish wasn’t so prominent. And just like with Kaeya and his loved ones, 95% of her interactions with him and the gang are like this while maybe 5% are of her admitting that they’re like family (not even to them, to the Traveler and some are behind friendship-locked quotes), which makes me wonder how the writers thought they would convince players of her true feelings about them. This is yet another area where the dynamic would’ve been so much more heartfelt if Hoyo checked their shit and applicability for more than five seconds, and didn’t rely so much on pointing and telling rather than showing.
On a more positive note though, I do love a lot of the relationships Itto has with others, cause they have much more depth than Hoyo’s usual “if you love someone you must treat them like a god” bs that they tend to tack onto some of the idealized characters. I do love his relationship with Granny Oni, and the way she was willing to risk her own place in society to take care of him. She acknowledges that he can be impulsive and that he’s not perfect, but hey, she doesn’t spend most of her screen time giving him a dose of “tough love”, and it’s clear that he respects her as well and is capable of reeling in some of his impulsiveness for her sake (almost like a lot of the backbone for a genuinely supportive relationship isn’t about calling someone an idiot). I also love how loyal his gang is to him, to the point where they’re willing to distract the Tenryou commission so he’d have a chance to catch up with Takuya, and while they’re not always on the same page as him or even each other, I can get behind the notion of them genuinely respecting him and their claims that he’s a decent boss. I also love his interactions with Thoma (seriously why does Thoma always take the biggest Ws when it comes to treating others with genuine respect?), and it did help that he’s the only one who was completely oblivious to Itto’s allergies when he triggered them (*cough* unlike the Traveler and Yae *cough*) and tries not to do it again. I also found it hilarious that Itto’s first thought before officially meeting Thoma was “why was HIS vision confiscation more special than mine?! 😡” and they gradually ended up becoming friends, and in the music festival event, while Thoma couldn’t attend he did send him two king Onikabuto, which showed that he pays attention to one of Itto’s biggest hobbies even if he doesn’t understand it that well himself. His friendship with Ayato does feel a bit flat due to how little we see of Ayato for…anything really, but from the small gifts Ayato gives him and the way he encouraged Itto’s beetle fighting in a rare moment of respite, I can see that Ayato likes and respects him enough as a friend.
As for potential on-screen interactions, I’d like to see him and Yoimiya hang out. She has voice lines about him saying that while he looks terrifying, he’s actually a kind person who’s good with kids. She’s also one of the least judgmental characters in the whole game and one of the few nice and kind characters that Hoyo managed to nail, so I think they’d be really good friends if they got an interaction. I’m also curious about what would happen if he interacted with Sayu (I’m not sure if they’ve ever had screentime together, let me know if they did), since he’s shown to be good with kids and she’s amazed at how tall he is. And Ayaka, since she’s slowly been able to reach out to other people in Inazuma to befriend them after her time with the Traveler. And just for fun…I’d like to see how him meeting Kaeya would play out, considering Thoma did mention introducing Kaeya to some youkai, they do have a lot in common due to being outcasts and being wrongfully accused of being lazy or up to no good, and just because Kaeya’s my favorite and I want to see more of him.
So yeah, while I do love Itto and how unique he is amongst the cast, I’m not fond of how that still gets squashed under Hoyo still wanting to fall back into what’s comfortable in society.
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