how to die (iliad). how not to die (odyssey).

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how to die (iliad). how not to die (odyssey).
more people interested in doing classical reception (eg odyssey posting) should look up "what is prooftexting"
not trying to gatekeep classics here from people having a silly fun time on tumblr. i said people who are interested in the odyssey and that's what i meant, and i'm absolutely including non-academics in this category. i am not a classicist! i've never even been a classics student! i just read (and continue to read) the odyssey for fun.
prooftexting isn't a term that comes from classics, either—in biblical exegesis (bible interpretation), a proof text is a passage the supports an argument for a belief. but prooftexting is the practice of taking an isolated quote as support for a position—extracting it from any context that might not support your agenda. christians are notorious for this (speaking as a practicing christian), even without the vocabulary for it, because once you jettison context and an honest attempt to understand a very, very old and very foreign text, you can make the bible say whatever you want it to.
it's a useful term to be familiar with, i think, because how people (primarily thinking of those in fandom) receive other ancient literature can look very similar. classical reception is (the study of) how "the classics" are received, and encompasses things like "how do people interact in a fandom for a retold myth?" and "how do people post about myths on tumblr?"
a lot of people come by ancient literature secondhand. for example: getting into epic the musical and then being interested in the odyssey. but reading the odyssey in its entirety takes more time and effort than a condensed version; it's not always easy to understand. there's a gap between us and the world of homer, and in trying to cross it, people carry away many different meanings.
this doesn't always jive with a fandomy approach to texts: (many) fans want continuity, authority, accuracy. they want a word of god to back them up. with works from before the concept of intellectual property, without knowable authorial intent, you just don't really get to have that. and what seems less intimidating than trying to read ancient literature? taking your meaning from a snippet or a summary instead, and treating that as the authority. ie, prooftexting.
... and that's basically normal, i think. we can't read all things all the time, and if you're having a fun fandom experience with the epic cycle, who am i to say thee nay? but the result will be, inevitably, further divorced from the source material—and some people having a fun fandom experience do care about that, and want to know more!
anyway, not all prooftexting is equally, idk, disingenuous? if you go hogwild with headcanons about odysseus' sister ctimene, based on the mention of her in one line of the odyssey, it probably doesn't matter. but other times, the departure becomes more blatant, and potentially troubling.
i'll use lies we sing to the sea by sarah underwood as an example, a ya novel that uses melantho, penelope's slave, as a pov character. we know a handful of details about melantho in the odyssey: her father dolius came to ithaca with penelope from sparta; she was raised personally by penelope; she has several brothers; she is sleeping with the suitor eurymachus; she and her brother melanthius are both executed by odysseus and telemachus for siding with the suitors. however, none of the details about her family or history appear in lies we sing to the sea. the author shared that she completed her first draft without reading the odyssey, so i suspect that she simply did not know that we have those details, until after she came up with a different backstory that she preferred. the result is a book in which elements that a reader of the odyssey might consider crucial to melantho's character—her relationship with penelope, her enslavement—are pushed far to the back of its concerns. the melantho of the odyssey isn't really explored, because there's so little interest in the dynamics at play in the odyssey.
and i do think that kind of thing matters. maybe it's not high stakes, but even so, ancient literature is full of serious topics like war and rape and enslavement that ought to be handled with respect. and it's harder to handle them with respect when you lack context. if you pull a paragraph or a name out of context because it helps you argue "this is what's canon"—ignoring that the idea of canon doesn't quite apply to texts like homer—what else are you missing? the text may be saying something else. the text may be saying so much more.
if you lean into your curiosity about what's in ancient literature and what it might mean, beyond supporting your preexisting notions, you're going to have a more rewarding experience as a fan and a reader. that's all.
Why was Odysseus’ bow so hard to string?
(The bow I use in this is Chinese in design rather than Greek, but it hits some of the key shape points)
When [Penelope] awakens after the slaughter and hears the news that Eurycleia brings her, she cannot at first believe that it is truly Odysseus who accomplished it (her skepticism mirrors the earlier suspiciousness of her husband; both Odysseus and Penelope need to learn that there is a time for trust and acceptance to supersede disbelief). Instead, Penelope supposes it must be a god who has come down from Olympus to punish the suitors for their villainy. The scene which follows shows Penelope, in the midst of her confusion and doubt, formulating a plan to test the identity of the stranger. Once before, in Book 19, she had attempted to do so ('Now, stranger, I have it in my mind to test you'), but there Odysseus had sidestepped. Now we see the tables turned, the biter bit, in the famous counter-test of the bed. Here Odysseus' celebrated caution and control vanish, and he bursts with indignation. This scene not only trumps Odysseus' previous testing and Penelope's own failure in book 19; Penelope here also goes on better than Athene in Book 13, for even Athene, though she deceived Odysseus and he failed to recognize her, could not make him give himself away: Impasse. Penelope is the only person who could outwit Odysseus in such a test, and this shows, like many other details and parallelisms between them, how well matched husband and wife truly are. Further, it is not just the test itself, Odysseus' knowledge of their secret, which makes Penelope believe in him, but his moment of angry passion, of uncontrolled emotion. As commentators have pointed out, a god would have known the truth [...] The automatic, unthinking surge of anger at the thought of his bed, his wonderful creation, being violated is wholly human.
—Richard B. Rutherford, 'The Philosophy of the Odyssey'
Dracula Dictionary, August 12th
brain fever: a nervous breakdown, due to extreme emotional distress, often with associated fever like symptoms
sanatorium: a facility offering long-term medical care or treatment
Klausenburg: german name of the romanian city Cluj-Napoca, unofficial capital of the Transylvania region
thither: in that direction
The good sister
And the long awaited return of our favorite blorbo
I find it incredibly funny from a meta/author perspective, that Ancient Greece decided to name their protagonist that angers many people “Anger Bringer” but, even funnier, is the in universe understating that anyone who meets Odysseus must have had the thought “oh dear, how unfortunate to be named hateful/hated” and then they have exactly One conversation with him and go “Ah I see now”
For reference, Odysseus’ name sounds very much like the Greek word odussomai, which can roughly mean “I am angry at” or “I am the cause of anger” (or simply “to hate” or “to dismiss”), a fact that is used for ironic effect frequently in the Odyssey.
It’s also specifically stated in Book 19 that Odysseus’ grandfather, a master thief and one who has also pissed off a lot of people, specifically named him this because “I am disliked by many, all across the world, and I dislike them back. So name the child Odysseus.” 19.428
Bro looked at his grandson and thought “Ahaha, this one’s going to be a troublemaker like me. Better get him started early.”
It’s like a terrible allegory for cause and effect or something.
Assigned Problem At Birth
today my judaic studies prof said that he someone had put on one of our tests that BCE stood for “before christ emerged” and CE stood for “christ emerged” which makes jesus sound like some sort of eldritch horror and tbh im okay with that
"It was socially acceptable for a man to go to a brothel or keep a mistress provided he did not bring her home. In a speech attributed to Andocides (4.14) the speaker criticizes Alcibiades for bringing both slave and free hetairas into his house after receiving the largest dowry in Greece for his wife. This forced his wife to leave him and go to the archon to register for a divorce. The speaker clearly regards Alcibiades’ behaviour as outrageous and insulting (υβριστής). In a marriage contract from Ptolemaic Egypt between a woman from Cos and a Greek from Alexandria, which must reflect general Greek attitudes, the husband agrees not to bring other women into the house (επεισάγεσθαι) and thereby insult his wife.32 If he did so, he would have been in breach of their agreement. The Greek audience who viewed the Oresteia would have seen Agamemnon’s attempt to introduce Cassandra into his house as deeply shocking. Clytemnestra takes a lover in part because her husband has left her alone and unsatisfied, then takes revenge on her husband in part for killing her daughter and for insulting her by introducing Cassandra into their home (Aesch. Ag. 1440–2, 1444–7). …
Heracles offends Deianeira in the same way in Sophocles’ Trachiniai. Here again it is a man’s desire for a woman which threatens his household. Heracles falls in love with Iole, and when her father Eurytus, the king of Oechalia, refuses to let him have an affair with her, he invades his country, kills him and sacks the city (351–68; cf. 472–83). While he is away for a long time, Deianeira remains loyal and worries about her husband (36–48, 141–52). … Her love and concern for him prompt her to send her son Hyllus to find him (61–93), and at first she rejoices at the news of his imminent return (293–4). Her joy turns to sorrow when she learns that one of the women captured by Heracles and brought to Trachis by Lichas is Iole (351–8). As a good wife, Deianeira has tolerated Heracles’ affairs with women in other places (457–60), but living with another woman under the same roof is more than she can endure (536–51; trans. Lloyd-Jones 1994–6): For I have taken in the maiden – but I think she is no maiden, but taken by him – as a captain takes on a cargo, a merchandize that does outrage to my feelings. And now the two of us remain beneath one blanket for him to embrace; such is the reward that Heracles, who is called true and noble, has sent me for having kept the house so long. I do not know how to be angry with my husband now that he is suffering severely from this malady; yet what woman could live together with this girl, sharing a marriage with the same man? For I see her youth advancing, and mine perishing; and the desiring eye turns away from those whose bloom it snatches. That is why I am afraid that Heracles may be called my husband, but the younger woman’s man. Deianeira desires her husband and is worried that he will pay more attention to the younger woman. Although she tries not to be angry with Heracles, Deianeira is clearly hurt that her reward for looking after the house for so long is to receive a rival in her own home. She distinguishes between Heracles falling in love, which she does not reproach, and bringing another woman into the house, which is intolerable."
- Yes” and “no” in women’s desire by Edward M. Harris, in Sex in Antiquity
i don't want to come across as a spoilsport, because i absolutely understand the comfort of "imagine [character a] and [character b] from the homeric epics lovingly reuniting in the underworld" posts, i'll just use them as a jumping-off point because i feel for the sake of thematic understanding and cultural context that it's important to at least be aware that the underworld as it's described in the iliad and the odyssey is very far removed from a christian heaven.
in odyssey 10 circe warns odysseus that apart from tiresias (who's got a special deal going with persephone) the spirits in the underworld do not retain their memories or knowledge or sense of self and are nothing but "empty, flitting shades". in book 11 odysseus describes the underworld as fields of insubstantial spirits shambling restlessly about as they gibber meaninglessly. it seems the extremely recently departed (elpenor and later the suitors) are able to remember who they were for a bit, but after that it's only through drinking the sacrificial blood odysseus offers them that the dead can temporarily regain their senses of self. not even the spirits of agamemnon or odysseus' own mother are able to remember or recognize him until they've drunk the magic blood.
in iliad 22, achilles is painfully aware "the dead forget the dead in the house of Hades", and swears that he'll be the exception, he'll remember patroclus even in the afterlife. whether he succeeds or not is unproven in the homeric sources (magic blood in the odyssey not withstanding) but it confirms how that's the general rule of the afterlife as these characters know it.
as elizabeth vandiver says in her iliad lecture series,
"This is not the kind of afterlife to provide comfort for bodily death or hope for glorious reunions. It is an extremely pallid substitute for life in this world."
as she points out, that super bleak concept of the afterlife shows us why kleos and legacy are so vital to the characters in the iliad and the odyssey. in a pre-literate society, where there is no meaning or comfort in the afterlife, the only thing that will remain of you after you're gone is what people say about you. achilles literally chooses kleos aphthiton, "imperishable glory", that will be sung about forever rather than a peaceful forgettable life precisely with that in mind. the fact that it seemingly worked (the living still know the iliad! the living still remember!) is one of those things that makes me crazy about the homeric epics.
book 12
obsessed with the way epic manhood is defined as being remembered– doing great deeds that will be the stuff of song for generations to come, dying in glory and being memorialized by tombs that inscribe greatness on the physical landscape– and epic womanhood is defined as keeping memory alive– helen weaving the images of men about to die, penelope weaving laertes’s glory into his shroud, cassandra raising the cry and andromache the lament for hector–
something about manhood as passive and womanhood as active in relation to memory is just… such an incredible way of framing things
oh and the way it’s helen who calls it κακὸν μόρον, ὡς καὶ ὀπίσσω ἀνθρώποισι πελώμεθ᾽ ἀοίδιμοι ἐσσομένοισι (a terrible fate, that we will become the songs of men yet to be)!
because helen wants to be a storyteller, helen is meant to be a storyteller. helen wants to encode men’s lives in tapestry and eulogy. that’s how we see her when she’s left on her own: striving for domesticity and simplicity, not fame. she is, in homer, the ideal woman, not just beautiful but devoted to her family, modest and hardworking, and so very aware of the responsibility of carrying the memories of those who die.
but her curse is to be the stuff of stories, not a storyteller. the very epitome of woman, yet cut off from the purpose of womanhood within epic.
#the ideal woman in accordance with ancient greek misogyny stays within the home and therefore has no reputation #helen is automatically disqualified by leaving with paris but also by having such extraordinary beauty that she has kleos #this would be acceptable for a goddess but not a mortal woman #helen is on the threshold of those two states as a demigod #anyway i love op’s point that women are expected to preserve the kleos of men while having none themselves! (via @terpsikeraunos)
11 Aug - Mina finds Lucy in the churchyard
these are part of an animatic summarising Dracula, which you can watch here (new readers beware; it has spoilers for the entire book!)
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11 August - Mina makes it in time
this is from an animatic which you can watch here (whole book spoilers)
Dracula Dictionary, August 11th
shawl: a piece of cloth worn as a covering for the head, neck, or shoulders
overmastering: overpowering
unclad: not wearing clothes (or in this case, wearing very few clothes, which at the time was almost the same as being naked)
daub: coat with a dirty substance
close: a narrow passage leading from a street to a court and the houses within
wynd: a very narow street
reflex: reflection
Spohr: Louis Spohr, a german composer
Mackenzie: Sir Alexander Campbell Mackenzie, a scottish composer
I loved today's entry so I had to split it in two. Look for more in reblogs.
No Lucy and the door unlocked
Run, Mina, run
Looove shadow Lucy with the moon behind
Uh oh
Mina to the rescue
Two pin pricks, you say? Oh probably nothing to worry about
Safe home
Everything normal next day
A bit of worrying about Jonathan as always
Key secure
Depending on which part of the Iliad you’re reading, Hector could be “unyielding” OR “miserable.”
Sometimes both!