♡ angel from above ♡

they/them, 20↑ mdni

[yyuwii]

Hi! just want to point out that in the reply/reblog someone made of your WMMAP post (about Athy being an unreliable narrator), the other person was wrong about that sleeping Athy scene, since they posted an incomplete MTL.

Claude was not upset about Felix comparing Athy to a fairy (or Diana) but because Felix pointed out Claude had not met Athy as an infant, which Claude obviously feels guilty about.

i think it's just a problem of media literacy

[yyuwii]

wmmap; athy is actually an unreliable narrator (sometimes)

so it's come to my attention that Athy is much more of an unreliable narrator than she's lets on, it took me a few re-reads to notice, just because it's incredibly subtle and only applies to her younger days with Claude specifically

When Athy coughed up blood and was bedridden, she thinks that her dad is being heartless and forcing her back to sleep but that's not true because

its not that shes being noisy but before lucas pops up, this is all he knows to do to alleviate her pain. he doesn't want to her to be in pain and not because she was actually being noisy.

claude putting her to sleep was his way of caring for athy.

but athy doesn't know that, i guess she's in too much pain to listen to this conversation. but when we follow her perspective and her inner thoughts on things, we actually end up believing her narrative, and this builds up that claude is uncaring and cold

here's another early example;

again, we follow athy thoughts and she thinks that Claude thinks that he was referring that her being a fairy is nonsense

which makes claude seem cold and unloving again

which is suprise suprise actually untrue, if you look back a little earlier during the class the madam talks about something else,

he was actually referring to this, her putting athy down because of diana's commoner bloodline and athy not being a "pure-bred" aristocrat

you can see the panel where he thinks about it for a while, and Athy's little slip-up (because she doesn't like bringing diana up in front of claude due to her fear of abandonment) and she hesitates to actually say that the madam meant that she looks like her mom and not some fairy

claude knew, and he is shown to be well aware of the nature of nobles and how people think (which makes sense because it is canon that he is very intelligent).

he knew what was actually said to athy, and he's actually telling her to not care about the nonsense about what they say about her mom and implying she is not pure enough. he was trying to reassure her and made her feel better after she heard something terrible about herself and her mom

funnily enough, he doesn't deny that athy looks like a fairy when you realise what he was actually referring to

so, throughout most of her childhood claude actually showed love and affection in his own way, but it was never really acknowledged by athy, she has always misinterpreted it and missed the signs of it because she was scared that he was going to kill her eventually and didn't want to get attached

i think im going to write about how much claude is misunderstood in this fandom and break down his character tmr... anyways this is going to be where I write bl and my literature notebook :>

anyways claude is a really tragic and broken character and wmmap is literally about how athy and claude heal each other's trauma by bonding together as family which I don't think is talked about at all

my ask box is also open so send me anything! :>

[sharper-than-a-serpents-tooth]

How could Claude have been referring to the Madame Pompadou putting Diana down if he was not present at the class? I doubt that the woman would still be alive and well, let alone remain in the position of Athy's teacher, if she had said it to Claude's face. The only way he would have known is if he was stalking Athy, montoring her through servants or reading her mind. All three are highly invasive actions that make him look worse. It's more likely he was just refering to what Athy told him. Claude was bothered because Athy being compared to a fairy by her teacher reminded him of Diana again and he did not like that. That's why Diana had been a taboo subject for the majority of Athy's life. He was simply reacting to Athy's words and not something she omitted and he could have not known about on his own. The right answer is usually the one that requires the fewest assumptions.

Claude was 100% annoyed by the fact that Athy was being compared to a fairy, because there is another scene where Felix compares Athy to a fairy and Claude tells him to shut up. Throughout Athy's early childhood he has always silenced Felix and send him away when he pointed out Athy and Diana's similarities.

Felix *compares Athy to a fairy*. Claude: "You are talking a lot of nonsense today."

Athy *talks about how her teacher compared her to a fairy*. Claude:"Madame Pompideur is known for saying nonsense."

It's also not the first time Claude reacts negatively to Athy receiving a compliment. Honestly, if Athy had been a child and not an adult, it would be really damaging to her self-esteem to hear her parent disagree every time someone praises her looks, talents or achievements.

[yyuwii]

"How could Claude have been referring to the Madame Pompadou putting Diana down if he was not present at the class?"

Is it really that surprising he could make an educated guess? Claude grew up in similar shoes as Athy

If you didn't know Claude's mother was a commoner as well (I think this might be something mentioned in the novel, but it is stated on the wmmap wiki, since the spoon follows the novel in the first season I personally believe it to be canon)

I don't think it was far-fetched that he knew what would be brought up because his own mother was also of commoner blood, because it wasn't kindly looked upon on.

He probably heard similar things when his mother was brought up in a conversation, about his commoner mother. Most likely worse than Athy heard, because he didn't have any social status when growing up.

I don't mean that he knew exactly what was said, but rather, he had a rough idea because he'd been in the same shoes before

"The possibility that Claude found her whimpers annoying."

Does this look like a man that would find his own child whimpering annoying?

Clearly, he was very distressed about her fainting. He wanted the best for her and to help her recover.

Claude is a character, not the audience. bro has no idea he was going to kill Athy originally, holding him against that hearing "go to sleep" as her last words before she slept seems like an overkill to me

(if we are going as far as to apply modern laws onto a webtoon about why Claude didn't ask for consent, you know he is her parent he can consent, right? because according to modern law Athy is not 18 at the time, therefore she cannot consent?)

and about the whole praise thing, Claude does personally praise Athy quite a few times. On top of my head at the debaunte and when she figures out how to use float magic. Just because he doesn't praise her verbally doesn't mean he doesn't support and show his love and care in different ways

I agree that parents shouldn't be criticizing when people praise their kid if it affects their self-esteem, but that ultimately boils down if affects the child.

i personally see that Claude was just bantering with Felix, and since Athy has never been truly discouraged or shown that she felt uncomfortable with it.

Like sure, Athy's inner monologue shows us that she thinks he's a jerk for saying that, but does it diminish her confidence or make her doubt herself in doing it again? Not really, she's always shown that she was pretty confident when it comes to her appearance. I've always just understood that as their dynamic

also yes, he does also watch her almost drown, but does save her. he was struggling about letting her die or live.

which is essentially his mistaken thoughts about diana choosing her over him, which is a big part of his trauma, and letting her live because he was finally able to separate his own trauma and athy and seeing athy for the child that she is

like i don't deny that it was a terrible thing to do, but he does grow and learns because he does remove those plants later, and saves athy twice in the exact same situation without thinking

Claude does redeem himself later in the story; he acknowledges his mistakes and failures and grows from them.

Claude isn't as simple as just an abusive and neglectful father who then turned into a caring but cold father later. He was literally wrestling his own trauma throughout the whole story in an unhealthy way.

I do think that its unfair if you base his character off his actions early chapters instead of wmmap as a whole.

i just find it difficult to criticize anyone for their actions when they're clearly mentally struggling, not to say they shouldn't be held accountable. but the things you do in a bad headspace don't define you as a whole person.

but these are just my thoughts and breaking down why Claude isn't as simple as a lot of people think he is :>

[yyuwii]

wmmap; breaking down claude's trauma and how it created a neglectful father

for the longest time, this fandom biggest gripe about Claude is about how he's being an absent father to Athy throughout her childhood.

In the webtoon, spoon changes the plot from the second season instead of following the original novel. Which imo was a decision to explore Claude's trauma and his relationship with Athy better.

Both Claude and Athy overcoming their family trauma together is what I think the true message of wwmap is about (even though I understand Lucas and Ijikiel are great eye-candy ikemen)

A lot of Claude's trauma really only makes sense after we get the backstory about Claude towards the end of his series

Initially, his trauma doesn't really click. Near the beginning of the series, we find out about the relationship between Claude and Diana. I mostly think this answers the question that Athy raises about whether Claude truly loved Diana after seeing the portrait of his ex-fiance, Penelope.

Again, Athy is misleading us, the audience, because she can be an unreliable narrator, especially in the early chapters (here if you want to read more)

Athy at this point, believes that all his neglect so far is because he doesn't love her or her mother, Diana. That his heart still lies with his former fiancée,

Which makes sense to her, because why else would he treat her so terribly, if he didn't love her mother and, by extension, herself?

but then athy collapses and sees the memory before she was born between them

So now it gets confusing, because clearly Claude had some sort of feelings for Diana. Athy realizes she wasn't a product of a one-night fling but he still clearly doesn't love her, even though he loved her mother, Diana.

She doesn't quite understand their relationship quite yet, but it's clear to her that Claude has some complications about Diana because of her birth even though he loved Diana before she got pregnant.

The only thing that is clear to her is that he doesn't love her right now. It's a firm belief she carries on with her all the way up to season 3, even though it's quite obvious to us by then that it wasn't true.

but here's the thing, Claude's reason for not being to love Athy was far more deeply rooted than just because Athy was the cause of Diana's death

Claude's trauma is about family and betrayal. Specifically, no one ever chose him.

Let's explore this by chronological order, first is Anastacius

In his childhood, his only family besides his sickly mother was Anastacius. Anastacius always cared for Claude in their childhood; in response to that, Claude relied on him a lot

Anastacius was the only person in his life who cared for him in his childhood.

The first betrayal was when Anastacius chose the throne over Claude.

Of course, we now know that Anastacius had his reasons and was led astray by Aeternitas. However, Claude doesn't find out about this until much later and lived with the belief that blood relations mean nothing in the royal family.

Then what about found family?

Penelope was the first person aside from Claude that he opened up to, but was later the second betrayal that he had to experience in his life because Penelope chose Anastacius over him.

In a way, she also chose the throne. She wanted to elevate her status and believed Anastacius was the right person for that. Do I think she could've chosen Claude if he were next in line for the crown? Yes, absolutely.

So that portrait in the office we see was never about longing or love. It was a reminder of his trauma and to not trust others again.

To Claude, the third "betrayal" was Diana.

After all that childhood trauma, he finally found love and could live a happy life again instead of being miserable prior to meeting Diana.

After all this, it reconstructs the scene earlier when Diana is dying from her pregnancy.

"Don't leave. Choose me, instead of the child that's eating at your life as we speak."

Diana's choice of giving birth to Athy and instead of choosing to live with him, which sounds insane, because she never chose Athy over Claude. This was always between her and Athy, Claude has nothing to do with this.

In her eyes, she loved Athy so much that she was willing to lay down her life for Athy to come into the world, but that's not how Claude sees it. Claude thinks this is all about him. Between him and unborn Athy and Athy ultimately won.

Which was the last straw that broke the camel's back because Claude was never anyone's first choice, he wasn't Penelope's and he wasn't his brother Anastacius' first choice either. They chose the throne over him; they both chose power, and when he finally thought he could let someone else in again, it was Diana, and in his eyes, he lost yet again, this time to Athy. He was so traumatized and scarred that he chose to turn to black magic and erase Diana from his memories, because to him it was easier to live that way.

So back to the question about Claude being a bad father. Was he a neglectful father? Unfortunately yes.

but this fandom doesn't really see it past that, the whole reason he couldn't see her was because he wasn't able to separate his trauma from Athy for the first 5 years of her life. He was struggling to separate his own trauma the whole time, and even after they met in season 1.

To me, this scene was the epitome of that struggle. He's still struggling with his trauma with the unhealthy urge to kill Athy, but he's starting to recognise her as an individual and loves her for it.

His trauma really severly worsened and cemented after Diana's death, she really helped him get past a lot of it, and I say this because of the scene where Claude finds out she's pregnant with Athy and he does this

god damn the pure joy when he finds out they were going to have a kid hurts me.

Like Diana single-handedly wiped away all that trauma he had with Anastacius, his experience with his own brother made him reject family ties from blood relationships.

But clearly, this is not the face someone would make if they were pessimistic about building a family.

To me, Claude indeed had his shortcomings about Athy in their childhood, but clearly not without reason. Should we really fault someone so much because of their trauma? I think we fail to recognise that Claude was incredibly broken and traumatised there's clearly something so much more tragic beneath his character than just an absent father

ok anyway that's it for this ted talk, I will probably make another one about how he overcomes it with his relationship with Athy!

Thanks for reading if you made it this far!

[yyuwii]

wmmap; athy is actually an unreliable narrator (sometimes)

so it's come to my attention that Athy is much more of an unreliable narrator than she's lets on, it took me a few re-reads to notice, just because it's incredibly subtle and only applies to her younger days with Claude specifically

When Athy coughed up blood and was bedridden, she thinks that her dad is being heartless and forcing her back to sleep but that's not true because

its not that shes being noisy but before lucas pops up, this is all he knows to do to alleviate her pain. he doesn't want to her to be in pain and not because she was actually being noisy.

claude putting her to sleep was his way of caring for athy.

but athy doesn't know that, i guess she's in too much pain to listen to this conversation. but when we follow her perspective and her inner thoughts on things, we actually end up believing her narrative, and this builds up that claude is uncaring and cold

here's another early example;

again, we follow athy thoughts and she thinks that Claude thinks that he was referring that her being a fairy is nonsense

which makes claude seem cold and unloving again

which is suprise suprise actually untrue, if you look back a little earlier during the class the madam talks about something else,

he was actually referring to this, her putting athy down because of diana's commoner bloodline and athy not being a "pure-bred" aristocrat

you can see the panel where he thinks about it for a while, and Athy's little slip-up (because she doesn't like bringing diana up in front of claude due to her fear of abandonment) and she hesitates to actually say that the madam meant that she looks like her mom and not some fairy

claude knew, and he is shown to be well aware of the nature of nobles and how people think (which makes sense because it is canon that he is very intelligent).

he knew what was actually said to athy, and he's actually telling her to not care about the nonsense about what they say about her mom and implying she is not pure enough. he was trying to reassure her and made her feel better after she heard something terrible about herself and her mom

funnily enough, he doesn't deny that athy looks like a fairy when you realise what he was actually referring to

so, throughout most of her childhood claude actually showed love and affection in his own way, but it was never really acknowledged by athy, she has always misinterpreted it and missed the signs of it because she was scared that he was going to kill her eventually and didn't want to get attached

i think im going to write about how much claude is misunderstood in this fandom and break down his character tmr... anyways this is going to be where I write bl and my literature notebook :>

anyways claude is a really tragic and broken character and wmmap is literally about how athy and claude heal each other's trauma by bonding together as family which I don't think is talked about at all

my ask box is also open so send me anything! :>