Amelia, bi, current obsessions are The Night Agent, Frank Castle/Karen Page, and unfortunately, The Rookie. Feel free to ask me anything, Iām always happy to chat!
Can't help thinking about how little DDBA season 2 refused to engage with Matt's morality in any way that didnāt involve Wilson Fisk. Sure there was the conversation with Bullseye in the tunnel and the brief mentions of Foggy but at its core, I still believe the show refused to truly engage with Matt's actions.
He brought the man who KILLED Foggy into his and Karen's sanctuary.
Without telling her.
And then stopped her from getting her own revenge and chided her for having angry, conplicated feelings about the man and the situation at hand.
Why is Bullseye more important than Karen and her feelings? Why is saving him something Matt needed to do? What are the consequences of making the choice to save him?
But the part that kills me the most is Matt getting Bullseye to "protect" the governor. Matt isn't stupid, he knows EXACTLY what Bullseye was going to do in the name of protection and had no way of knowing whether the person would magically survive (and of course they survived, can't have Matt be morally corrupt in this iteration of the show, not even for a minute).
I wanted the show to deal with the choices Matt made. I wanted to see Karen furious at him for longer than one scene, I wanted to see him in church grappling with the choices he made against the tenets of his faith, I wanted to see him wondering what Foggy would think of him. Because in my opinion there is an ocean of difference between helping someone who was involved in drugs and information and needs support to change his life around (like they showed in the Foggy flashback) and working with the man who murdered your best friend, several of your other best friend's coworkers, threatened your best friends lives at multiple occasions, and murdered your childhood priest. While trying to murder your other best friend. An OCEAN of difference.
Another Night Agent fic that's been rolling around in my head since I watched season 3 - Peter gets the urge to masturbate but instead decides on whether he should reach out to Rose. I hope you enjoy!
This one 5 second clip of Matt and Foggy walking down the street and talking to one another has more heart and soul and drama and comedy and love and tension then the entirety of Daredevil Born Again.
Every time I think Iām over this fandom and this show I see something like this and itās just a punch in the gut. I literally cannot fathom watching thisāwatching Netflix Daredevil, and saying to myself yeah, Iām gonna destroy this :). Iām gonna be the guy responsible for killing Foggy Nelson, and destroying Nelson and Murdock and Nelson, Murdock and Page, forever. That will be my legacy as a Daredevil show runner. Itās literally unfathomable to me.
Thereās a lot of people criticising DDBA S2 right now, which, good. It didnāt live up to a lot of peopleās expectations, which, duh. But I canāt help but be irked by the criticism that I see, because so much of it seems to me like complaining about a stab wound when your head has been lopped off. Like yeah it sucks, but babe youāre focusing on the wrong things?? It sucks that Matt was relegated to a side character in his own show, sure. It sucks that Karen didnāt have as big as role as people wanted her to have, and it sucks that the dialogue is bad, and the plot is silly, etc. Etc. Genuinely, all that does suck. Iām not being sarcastic about that. But when people asked for Netflix Daredevil back, they were asking for Nelson, Murdock, and Page. Thatās it. Thatās Netflix Daredevil. They are the entire point of Daredevil and Mattās character arc. It is incredible to me that someone could watch the OG Daredevil show and not understand that.
I donāt understand how people are not beating down the doors of Marvel HQ. We asked for Netflix Daredevil back and you said āok :)ā and then dug up a bloated corpse and paraded it around on a string and said āsee? We gave you what you wanted, Netflix Daredevil!ā But like, the emperor has no clothes. You removed the heart and the emotional core of the series, and thought that we wouldnāt notice.
A lot of people are upset about Foggy, but the general consensus seems to be resignation. Like yes, it sucks and it wonāt ever be as good as Netflix, but at least we have Daredevil back, but we DONāT have Daredevil back. Iām insulted that they have the audacity to call this a reboot when they didnāt reboot shit. You gave us an entirely different, worse, show. I keep seeing ppl throwing around the term reheated nachos, but itās not even that, itās an entirely different meal at this point. Donāt feed me a shit sandwich and tell me its a cupcake. My taste buds work just fine, thanks.
This new Daredevil show genuinely MAKES NO FREAKING SENSE. And I donāt mean just from a plot standpoint, which, lol. I mean NOTHING about it stands up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. I would love for someone, anyone, to tell me what Matt and Karenās character arcs are in this show?? Whatās the thematic significance of that Graduate shot of Matt and Karen from episode 1, staring dull eyed directly into the camera? It was destined to never make sense because they destroyed the thematic foundation on which the entire original series rested (NM&P) but itās insane that they didnāt even try. People in this show just say things and do things, and then they are never mentioned again, and have no relevance or bearing on anything, so whatās the POINT?? Whatās the point of Karen asking Matt if he misses NM&P? Is that conversation used as a jumping off point for Matt and Karen to talk about their shared grief over Foggy? Nope. Itās never referenced again. Whatās the point in showing Matt having a PTSD fueled panic attack over Cherryās heart failing? Surely that will be important later down the line. Nope. Never talked about or brought up again.
What does Karen think about Matt setting Bullseye, Foggyās killer, free? Last time she saw him she had a gun pointed at his forehead and was prepared to kill him. Surely that warrants a conversation, right? That seems like a pretty freaking huge deal to me. Nope, here, have a shot of Matt and Karen walking down the street smiling and laughing. Thereās no need to give them any sort of catharsis over Foggyās death, because as it turns out, they arenāt even that affected! All that other pesky stuff was just a blip on the radar. See, they are at the Indian restaurant from the old show! Arenāt you happy? Arenāt you glad? See, itās just like Netflix.
Marvel thinks their entire audience is a bunch of babies that can be distracted by a pair of keyes dangling in their face, I guess. And the worst part is, theyāre right.
Anyway, canāt wait to see how they adapt Devil in Cell Block D for next season, but without the inciting incident that kicks off the entire story and gives it context. Iām sure they are going to do a great job, no really.
Thoughts on The Punisher special presentation: One Last Kill
To help structure this a little I've decided to talk about what I liked, didn't like, and what I wish we could have seen. As always, spoilers below the cut.
Before I really get started I want to say that I am shocked that for a special co-written and created by someone who is a certified dog lover, they decided to kill a fucking dog in the first five mins. I am so fucking tired of this happening in movies and tv shows to showcase how serious things are, it was not necessary in the slightest. The dog could have simply yipped from being held too hard or shaken to create this effect without THROWING IT IN FRONT OF A FUCKING BUS.
Bad Jon Bernthal.
Anyways...
What I liked:
- His portrayal of Frank's mental state was something to watch. The scene with him in the graveyard, pressing a gun to his head until he sees his little girl and then screaming for her to come back will stay with me for a long, long time.
- I loved the disjointed recitation of his Marine pledge, the people flashing in and out of his vision, him walking along like he was barely aware of what was happening around him. All of that felt so very real and I was itching to watch more
- Loved the Kastle scene. I wish we got so much more than that and I do feel like creators are baiting fans with Kastle content just to keep them interested and watching but the actors have so much chemistry that every scene they have is fucking awesome
- Loved seeing Curtis again though I also wish we got more scenes with him
- Liked that the fighting and effects of it were realistic. Frank gets visibly hurt by the punches and shots he's taking and we can see him ailing throughout the episode. Up until the last scene, at least.
Which leads me to...
What I didn't like:
- the entire Gnucci storyline. I know they're setting up Spiderman but introducing Ma Gnucci in a show about Frank's mental state didn't work for me, at all. We see that Frank killed her sons in his punishing gear which was presumably before his mental state deteriorated to what we see here so why would he have left Ma Gnucci alive? I don't understand why he would have killed all the sons, their associates, the fucking driver of the car, and then left her alone. That doesn't seem like Frank to me.
- why is Frank living in this family housing unit? He has always been a wanted man, why would he be out in the open like this, just renting an apartment?
- I didn't love Frank simply watching his neighbour's apartment get broken into (someone stabbing and hacking at the door, no less) and her getting assaulted, and him only jumping in when his place is set on fire. Frank would have absolutely jumped in sooner than that.
- the amount of violence was... a lot. Not saying I minded but it didn't really make sense in the broader context of the MCU for like a two block radius in the middle of New York to have apparently gone completely to shit and for Frank to kill so many fucking people with no consequences of any kind. I mean, that whole apartment complex is destroyed and full of bodies.
Which leads me into what I wish we could have seen:
- Frank's fucking fade in the last scene of the special when he's in his punisher gear. Are we to assume that in between him hallucinating his friends and dead daughter, him killing 40-ish people, and then donning the skull again, he went to the fucking barber? The clean look at the end completely ruined the vibe of the special for me, it didnāt follow that he would look so put together.
- I think it would have been way more fitting for Frank's mental state to improve only slightly towards the end of the special and to have him trying to groom himself when he decides to go back to punishing. And SHOW him being out of practice with taking care of himself. The pristine gear and perfect haircut don't match with how badly he was doing at the start of the special
- I wish we could have seen him continue to hallucinate his daughter as he was helping the other girl and only figure out what was happening at the end. Pretend the Gnucci storyline was gone and Frank walks into some violence happening on the street, or hears the girl's screams. And he rushes to help his daughter and continues to fight until he can get to Lisa but it's not Lisa at all but he still saves her. And she thanks him at the end, not being scared of him at all, and that's what helps him get back on track. Her not being scared of him because he helped her and that would mean Lisa wouldnāt be scared of him either.
- I wish this special more explicitly stated when it was happening in the MCU canon. I understand why they didn't, but come on. Is this pre-DDBA? Post DDBA season 2? If so, WHAT THE FUCK. It's criminal to mention Frank so many times in season two and then never explain where he was and what he was doing that he wasn't helping Karen.
Please let me know your thoughts, I would love to chat!
I debated whether to write a review of the whole season along with a review of the finale itself before realizing that everything I had an issue with over the course of the season was exemplified in the finale episode. So letās talk about it.
Throughout episodes 1-7 I consistently found myself noticing how quickly we jumped from scene to scene with little to no explanation, backstory, or effect shown for anything that has happened. And all of this was compounded, exponentially, in the finale.
- Matt and Karen work with sources for six months , gathering intel and evidence of Fisk's activities, and we see absolutely none of it. We never see any of the work Jess apparently did for them, we never see how they found out about The North Star, or how they managed to infiltrate the boat.
- Fisk decides to bomb the boat and while Matt can apparently tell that people are dying, we never see any follow-up to this whole scene. Does Fisk pay for the funerals of these people? What story does the city run with to explain what happened? How does Matt deal with hearing so many people cry out for help before dying knowing he maybe could have done something to save them?
- They somehow magically infiltrate Red Hook based only on Kirsten's blindfolded descriptions, a handily provided ID card (really, the entire previous season and an additional six months have gone by and the guy just now decides to help Daredevil?), find people being held in literal cages, AND THE ONLY OTHER TIME THIS IS BROUGHT UP IS DURING THE TRIAL IN 2x08 WITH ZERO EFFECT. Fisk had people in cages, confirmed that there were more of them, and we got absolutely no follow-up scenes regarding this. How are Matt and Karen not furious? Are we to assume they didn't check the rest of Red Hook for more prisoners? Didn't talk to anyone else to see if there were others? Never went back to the warehouse for Matt to listen in and see if he can hear other people there? How was this plot point abandoned so quickly?? Not to mention that including a scene with Red Hook but not explaining where Frank is after last season's post credits scene makes no narrative sense. Why didn't Daredevil go in there with a gopro strapped to his head to film what's going on?
Matt is a lawyer as well as Daredevil and Karen was a journalist for a long time. Why are we not seeing more of them playing to their strengths and actually using those skills? Where is the underground paper or blog that Karen is writing exposing everything Fisk is doing? Where is the twitter feed, any sort of social media engagement from the two of them showcasing what's going on?
*sigh*
There were so many choices made this season that I simply did not understand. Why did we spend three episodes and countless mentions on Vanessa's actions and subsequent death and funeral when Foggy didn't even get a single funeral scene? Why did we do a six month time skip and jump straight into a full on Karen/Matt relationship without showing or referencing ANY of what got them together? Why did we see Karen doing almost nothing all season aside from a couple scenes of her hitting a punching bag and her supporting Matt in Red Hook? When in the past she has gone behind Matt and Daredevil's back to investigate something she believed in and get justice for someone, why was she, in this iteration, simply background for Matt's character? Why did Mr. Charles get so little screentime and backstory? Why was Jessica Jones used in so many of the promos and trailers for this show when she had maybe 15 mins of screentime in all across the season? Why was BB's character written as pushy and a bit dim instead of someone who is valiantly trying to put the truth out into the world?
All questions that I desperately wish I could ask the creators.
But I think my biggest problem with this season is how it ended and the complete mockery they made of the concept of justice and all the female characters they sidelined in the name of yet another Matt vs. Fisk "showdown."
What the fuck was that finale?
Let's recap - in a courtroom and not while sworn in on the stand, Matt reveals that he is Daredevil. Without consulting Kirsten or Karen (I do not count their rushed exchange by the police station because there is no fucking way they talked through all the consequences), without considering the ramifications on his legal practice, or on his friends, Matt reveals his alter ego. In order to... *checks notes* provide a witness to disprove Mayor Fisk's claims that there was nothing untoward happening on The North Star. Which, at the time Matt infiltrated the ship, nothing was happening. The weapons had not been delivered yet, there were no manifests or anything proving what they were intended for, and they got the confession from the first mate involving Fisk only after this had already happened. So Matt really did sneak aboard the ship with no evidence (that they showed us or told us about other than saying the word "sources" which doesn't fucking count) and started taking out guards.
And this is supposed to help save Karen??? Fucking, how? On what planet is this beneficial to Karen who is on trial for supporting vigilante activity?
Doesn't Matt admitting he's Daredevil actually make both Karen and Kirsten guilty under the Safer Streets Act for consorting with him in full view of the public eye at this very trial? HOW WOULD HIM DOING THIS BE HELPFUL?
Why would Fisk even agree to being a witness? Why would he tell the truth? This whole trial is supposed to be a sham and Fisk is shown not to give a rat's ass about the rule of law multiple times during this season and the last. Why is he following the rules of the court and actually answering questions??
And then, the "rebellion" that didnāt exist until two episodes ago and seems to appear seemingly at will, is let into the courthouse by Cole North who magically had a change of heart just in this one episode, and the show proceeds to do an extremely poorly conceived January 6th reference.
It's okay because it's the good guys doing it, right? š¤®
Whatever drugs the people who wrote this scene were on, it was too many.
How did no one object to this?? Not one of the actors was like "hey, maybe portraying the people protesting against Fisk as the people who attempted to overthrow the democracy of the US is not in fact the best move." No one??
Fucking hell.
Then everyone has to barricade inside different rooms continuing the January 6th reference that is feeling worse and worse by the moment, including the governor who is there for some fucking reason. Fisk is apparently offered a deal by the AG to go scott free (how in the fuck) and then decides to go on a rampage killing what, a DOZEN random civilians? And there is ZERO fucking follow-up to this. Not one of the other people shouts about him killing someone later on, no one comments about the blood soaking his clothes, NOTHING.
Fisk has killed before, obviously. But unless I'm missing something, each of those has been singular instances either to further his position, keep secrets, increase loyalty, or in extreme anger or grief. He has never gone on a rampage like this and to do this in the finale is an insane choice for the show to make. Why is this the thing that sets him over the edge? And for there to be no effects of this? What the fuck?
And then, the people storming the capital, sorry, the people storming this particular courthouse in this make believe superhero show we're watching, all enter the main room in a nice orderly fashion, Fisk yells about power or whatever, and the people start storming again. And Matt and Jessica only jump in when they start trying to grab Fisk before Matt literally begs on his knees for Fisk to take the deal that lets him go scott free and to a fucking island for all his crimes.
Sheila? Had a couple speaking lines to Fisk regarding the AG's offer and isn't seen or heard from outside of that.
What the fuck did I just watch.
And somehow Karen isn't screaming in frustration in the background of all this? No one at this rebellion has any friends/family/acquaintances that were kidnapped by the AVTF? They're all okay with Fisk just going free?
And then it's an indeterminate amount of time later (presumably a while because Karen no longer has any bruises or scratches and Matt isn't limping from his fucking gunshot wound) and Karen and Matt are talking about being free and then he's immediately arrested. For... reasons. He wasn't arrested during the trial, or after the courthouse when he was fighting as Daredevil. He's arrested later. By the NYPD and not the AVTF. For reasons. Because I'm not sure if the writers of this show know that a mayor or other miscellaneous leader disappearing doesn't actually make all their rules, laws, and institutions disappear.
And then, what may be the most egregious omission in this whole series - we don't get to see Powell get his comeuppance. Fuck this show.
Onto my last point regarding the sidelining of female characters in the show and in the finale especially, to make room for another Matt vs. Fisk moment. Let's start with Karen - I mentioned this earlier, but what exactly did Karen do this season? What investigating or journalist skills did she use? Her trial had no evidence presented of anything she actually did. Daredevil was mentioned, as was Frank. Hector Ayala, and then Mayor Fisk. Literally nothing about her specifically or the activities she was being charged with or on the wanted list for. Why was the task force even after her? For what??
Kirsten? Completely sidelined by Matt in the finale and essentially at Matt's beck and call earlier in the season. Why couldn't we see more of her fighting for Karen? Her at trial with other clients trying to fight the system without Matt by her side? Matt came in and took over the whole trial and she barely got a speaking role in the last 20 mins of the finale.
Heather? Was given Vanessa's earring by Fisk because he was intrigued by her and her mental state and apparently had a mental breakdown, hit a patient she was meant to talk to, sees Muse in every reflective surface, and all of that is pushed aside in favour of her exchanging some snarky words with Matt in the finale.
Why is this what we're doing? Matt and Fisk was handled in season 3, why are we trying again to show their conflict? Wouldn't it be more interesting to come at this from another angle? Matt working at dismantling the systems Fisk has created, being emotional support for all the people he's harmed, using Daredevil as an actual symbol for their oppression?
I have so many 'and another things' to complain about (BB having a picture of Daniel when she's the one who got him killed, the assassin Fisk sent to kill the governor somehow not dying if only to preserve Matt's morality and conscience even though he totally fucking died and Matt is responsible) but I'm honestly not sure if it's even worth it.
If I were Charlie Cox or anyone involved in creating this show, I would be ashamed of myself.
I have 16 mins left of the finale of Daredevil Born Again season 2 and can say with 100% certainty that this was the worst episode of Daredevil ever made.
What the fuck was anyone involved in this even doing.
Will be writing a review of the season once I am able to get my thoughts in order.
I was going to wait and do a review of all of season 2 of Born Again and while I am still planning on doing that, I need to get out my thoughts on 2x07 because that was one of the worst episodes of Daredevil I have ever seen.
I warn you now, this is going to be a rant.
Spoilers for the show below the cut
Holy fuck.
I don't even know where to start. Scratch that, yes I do. Why on EARTH was Karen being processed and put into holding at an NYPD station? She was "arrested" by an AVTF agent, at a rally being managed by the AVTF, with NYPD nowhere in sight. You're telling me that Powell, who has been doing extra judicial shit for two seasons is, what, just going to hand over someone that's been on their most wanted list for literal months? And if the order to hand her over came from Fisk, why would he have done that??? To make an example of her? They were successfully able to make an example of Jack Duquesne with his farce of a trial and with him being held at Red Hook, why would Karen be any different? Why bother with offering her due process??? Both Fisk and the AVTF already know that there could be potential Daredevil sympathizers on the force with how they went after Cherry at home and at the hospital, and saw that he had sympathetic friends at said hospital. Why would they risk it?
What is the plan re: using her as bait? Are they thinking that Karen will get the trial of the century and Daredevil will what, swoop down into the courtroom, try to grab Karen, and give the AVTF the chance to arrest him as well? Kill him right there and then? Change public opinion? The entire thing is ludicrous.
And speaking of Cherry, if he's supposed to be hiding from the AVTF who, presumably, are still looking for him, why would he be meeting with noted missing persons Matt Murdock (that the whole city is apparently looking for) and vigilante Jessica Jones on a rooftop in view of several buildings, in broad fucking daylight? Come the fuck on.
I liked Karen's processing scene and the callbacks to her last time in lockup very much but what the fuck was that Mahoney scene? Are you telling me that Mahoney, who has been helping Matt and Foggy since the first episode of Daredevil back in the day, is the chief of detectives and all he's done so far and is managing to do now is... take Karen out of her cell (with absolutely no one in sight, no other cops on duty or other prisoners in lockup) and give her 2 mins with Daredevil outside? That's IT? I know he's supposed to be back in the finale but come on. After everything he did for Matt, Foggy, Karen, hell, even Frank Castle, THIS is what we get??
Fisk goes to see Karen in jail which does seem in character but what was that dialogue? And don't even get me started on how NO ONE, not her apparent loving boyfriend (*gag*), not Mahoney, or Kirsten, or any of the multitudes of reporters at the trial, mention the very visible bruises Karen has around her throat???
Matt Murdock, who has such superhuman senses that he can listen to people kilometres away and smell changes in their body, and who is apparently in a full on loving relationship with Karen is not going to mention the bruises around her neck and arms? Not even once? Not going to ask if she's okay? Not one ounce of concern for her safety, the trauma she must be reliving, landing in jail because of Fisk once again, if she needs anything? We're just going to jump right in to Karen apologizing (*gag*) for a completely reasonable trauma response to Matt dumping the man of her nightmares on her and forcing her to deal with him alone?
Fuck you Matt Murdock and fuck whoever wrote this fucking scene.
And their entire plan, leaving Karen in jail and betting on this trial, is because... Fisk seems different? That's it? That's what we're going to risk Karen's safety on? That Fisk *might* be slightly scared and that by going through this trial, he might get more scared? What the FUCK is the goal here? Fisk is going to do whatever he can to stay in power, he has proven that time and time again. Putting Karen in this position does not guarantee anything other than putting her in danger. Where the fuck is Frank Castle when you need him.
Also, all that and the scenes of the actual trial are maybe 2-3 mins total? Cool. I don't know what Matt Murdock lawyer coming back is supposed to accomplish. He's been gone for months, has left his business partner completely high and dry, abandoned his girlfriend (a different one than his current one because heaven forbid he live with any of his demons alone) and all his firm's clients and he comes back as some sort of hero? We don't even get to see his and Kirsten's reunion? She's not pissed at him for almost running their firm into the ground and forcing her to carry it all on her own? For having to deal with the AVTF on her own and be ordered around by Karen and Matt by proxy? We don't get to see ANY of that and Matt is just back now? Fuck off.
Then. That fucking scene between Karen and Heather.
What the FUCK was that?
It read like someone thinking it was a good idea to write a catfight scene between exes without considering what this show is and who both of these characters are. Karen has been taking care of herself for years, has had to deal with trauma we can barely imagine, and MATT is the topic of conversation? Matt's issues are hot? The dialogue is fucking cringe inducing.
And how do these characters even know each other? Are we to assume that Karen and Matt, in the midst of all the apparent vigilante activity that Karen is on trial for, had the exes conversation? And Matt told her about Heather but she somehow never mentioned Frank? Bullshit. This was all already covered by 1x09 of last season. Matt knows about Karen and Frank's feelings for each other, he heard it and saw it. He was there, there was a whole conversation about it and we left off in a completely different and more tenuous place than DDBA season two would suggest. They've literally retconned their own show.
And how does Heather know Karen's history with Matt? Matt was barely paying attention to Heather last season and their relationship seemed strained at best but we're to assume he told her about Karen and their complicated history. Is Heather going to bring up Elektra next episode? Fuck off with this nonsense.
Why is Heather even there? If Fisk and his team have as much evidence about Karen's life as Heather claimed, why not use that in the trial and introduce it as evidence? Why even bring up Hector Ayala or Matt's apartment? Destroy Karen's public image by airing the actual awful things sheās done. What on earth is stopping them??
And that shootout scene with Matt, Kirsten, and the AVTF - why would Fisk and/or Powell send only one truck of guys to take care of them? If they knew Matt and Kirsten were going to be there, why not swarm them and send five trucks? Why not get a sniper to hit them somewhere else? What a useless fucking move on the AVTF's end.
And finally... Bullseye. The fucking audacity of Matthew fucking Murdock to make Karen feel like shit for wanting revenge for Foggy and then turnaround the next fucking episode, and sic Bullseye onto a target himself. Matt KNOWS that Bullseye is going to kill whoever Fisk sends to get the governor, he knows that. But that murder, that he is complicit in!, is okay because it's needed, right? Karen's idea to call Frank for help is bad because murder is wrong and we need to trust the system. Vengeance isn't justice because this isn't us and we need to trust the system. But it's fine if Matt needs it right? Murder is needed now and Matt admits it so it's fine, right?
This argument between justice and morality is why Daredevil is such a fascinating character but the way it's been done in season 2 is just plain infuriating. Matt isn't struggling between what he wishes he could do and what he believes needs to be done, he's just a sanctimonuous ass who seems to be in church not for the Catholicism but for the fucking vibes and leaves everyone else to deal with his choices.
I think my problem with the "vengeance isn't justice" thought process and Matt's character as he's written in DDBA season 2 is that the show never grapples with what justice does actually look like for characters in this universe. Matt goes around saving Fisk, saving Pointdexter, smacking the gun out of Karen's hand but we never see a discussion or conversation about what their options actually are. I'm not saying the ways of the Punisher are preferrable or should be adopted but I would like like to actually see Matt dealing with the consequences of his morality and the morality he inflicts on those around him.
What does justice look like in a world run by Fisk and the AVTF? Is the plan to put them in prison? To take them to court? Matt can't even BE a lawyer in season 2 for fear of Fisk so what. is. the. plan. The swordsman's trial was a very obvious farce that did not follow any sort of legal process, the governor can't or won't reign Fisk in, Pointdexter is literally proof of FBI agents possibly being on Fisk's payroll. And what about the victims of all of Fisk's moves and the AVTF? What does morality and justice look like to them? Where is their anger that Daredevil seems to only be pushing the problem further down the line instead of eliminating it?
If Matt insists on pretending like killing is not a solution, then I want to SEE him struggling with the consequences of that. That every move he makes affects someone else's view of the world and their comfort level in the life they're able to lead. Not just him being a hero episode in and out.
I love that Karen got angry in 2x06 but I really hope that the show doesn't paper over their very obvious different perspectives on this. Matt bringing Dex to their hideout, forcing Karen to be around the man who took her family away is torture for her, and I want Matt to have to live with the after effects of that. Matt may have gone through his own struggle regarding whether to let Pointdexter die or not but by involving Karen he is forcing her to go through it too. He is forcing everyone involved with Fisk and the AVTF to have to live in their trauma knowing that those people are still out there.
I have been a bit distracted by Daredevil recently but thank you to @monisse for bringing me back to my original obsession and looping me in on this because I have some THOUGHTS.
- I like the plot they're hinting at. Accountability is always interesting to watch and I'm curious how a program like Night Action could ever fall under some sort of judicial review given how they operate almost entirely extra-judiciously and without oversight.
- I also like the concept of seeing a married Night Agent because we haven't heard mention of that since Rose's aunt and uncle
...
THAT BEING SAID.
How was someone like Titus Welliver's character not introduced after season 1?? Or even season 2? The vice-president had an assassination plot against the sitting president and actively tried to take over the presidency with the secretary of state assisting him in the cover-up and there was NO overhaul of the Night Agent program at that time? Especially since two Night Agents were murdered as part of this all unravelling? This plot would have been *perfect* as a season 2 storyline but bringing it up now makes little to no sense. An assassination attempt, or a terrorist plot in New York didn't do it but a President covering up violating campaign finance laws did?? No fucking way.
And while Peter's new partner may help him and show him a life beyond all this, instead of introducing even more new characters, I would much rather hear about Rose's aunt and uncle as characters and learn more about their backgrounds and their relationship, hopefully FROM Rose. Imagine Rose coming back into Peter's life and the example of her aunt and uncle being used to show how they can be together and are better together. Wouldn't that tie things in well?
Secondly, I'm not sure if I'm the only one but the end of season 3, in my opinion, set up either Rose or Chelsea as Peter's partner going forward. Why are we getting additional new characters?? Is Chelsea disappearing again with no explanation? Her arc in season 3 shows her becoming disillusioned with her job and learning how quickly things can change at the White House (like what happened to Peter in season one) and transitioning to working with Peter would make sense, no? What was the point of all that talk of balance between Peter and Mosley if there's going to be more new characters introduced and Rose isn't going to be brought back?
And finally... Zoe. I cannot begin to explain how mad I am that out of ALL the characters they've mentioned and all the characters we love and would like to see more of, they chose Zoe. WHY. What possible story reason could there be for this? And even if there is one that you could come up with, why bother?? You're not gonna give the fans more scenes of Cisco? Of Diane Farr, or Chelsea, or Maddie, or President Travers, of Jim, but you're going to bring back fucking Zoe???
So blazing mad.
And can I say, of course she's fucking blonde and white. She's never been shown on screen before but the entire fucking fandom, small as it is, just knew she was blonde and white. And I am so fucking mad that we were right. I loved that Rose, Cisco, Farr, and Chelsea were people of colour in the original series but it feels like such a shitty choice to make Zoe white and blonde and I have literally no interest in any storylines involving her character.
Despite what the showrunners seem to think, this show has ALWAYS been about Peter and Rose and I feel comfortable saying that we don't want anything else.
elektra natchios is not matt murdockās ādark pathā sheās his mirror
charlie cox has said on multiple occasions that karen page is the ālove of mattās lifeā and that elektra is the one who tempts him, drags him toward darkness. but that whole idea is such a misread of elektraās character and honestly how the show presents her too. elektra never tries to lead matt astray, when sheās acting on her own choices, sheās not trying to corrupt him, sheās trying to get him to accept every single part of himself, even the parts he hates. the difference is that elektra doesnāt separate the āgoodā and ābadā sides of matt. to her, theyāre all just him. and thatās her way of loving him, even if itās messy, unconventional, and really unhealthy sometimes.
elektra is so bpd-coded it hurts. sheās not cold or empty like the writers tried to push in season two. she feels too much, she just doesnāt know how to regulate it or show it in ways people recognize as āhealthy.ā she splits, she lashes out, she clings too tightly and then pushes away. and the fandom (and even charlie cox in interviews) villainize her for that. she gets framed as this evil seductress dragging matt into sin, when in reality sheās a traumatized woman whoās spent her whole life being used by men and authority figures. her moral compass is cracked because of it. she wants to be good, but her definition of āgoodā is survival, getting things done, making sure the people she loves donāt get swallowed by the same cages she grew up in.
itās not that elektra excuses everything, she doesnāt. she knows stick was cruel, she knows matt has limits she canāt understand. but her perspective is that people canāt just carve themselves into āacceptableā and āunacceptableā halves. she wants matt to accept the part of himself that likes fighting, that likes hurting, because to her repressing it is the real danger. thatās not leading him astray, thatās her trying, in her own broken way, to save him. and itās devastating that the show leans so hard into the opposite reading, making her out to be this toxic ādark pathā woman while karen gets to be the angel, the safe option.
karen isnāt some perfect saint either. sheās complicated, sheās done terrible things too, and thatās what makes her interesting. she got to have arcs and storylines that existed outside of matt, especially in season three. elektra never got that. her entire story in the mcu is tied to men. she never gets to just exist with her own agency, and thatās partly the writing, partly the misogyny of how fandom treats women differently. and the fact that elektra is a woman of color, played by a cambodian-french actress, makes that double standard even harsher. she gets vilified in ways karen doesnāt.
saying karen is āthe love of mattās lifeā isnāt just simplifying, it erases what elektra brings to the story. matt shouldnāt even have a āgreat love of his life,ā honestly, because heās a mess who treats the women in his life badly and both karen and elektra deserve better than being tied to his narrative forever. karen got some space to grow on her own, thankfully. elektra never did. and thatās why i hope, if she comes back, we finally get to see her with her own agency, her own story, not just as mattās temptation or stickās soldier. because sheās not a trope, sheās damaged, human, real, and so much more fascinating than the box the show (and charlie coxās comments) keep trying to shove her into.
this whole rant was inspired by me seeing this video on twitter lmao
I needed to think about it a bit more, so it gets its own post.
Stating it plainly is best. All of the Matt-Karen romantic scenes felt forced and unearned. I bought the excited planning moments a little more, but the only moment that really felt honest was the moment when she asked him about being Matt Murdock and missing NM&P.
But yeah, the romantic stuff was too fast and too out of place with everything else going on. I get itās been six months or whatever in-universe, but that did NOT come across in the episode. Iād almost say the timeline is incredibly nebulous. It feels like the scene in Josieās was yesterday. So for Matt and Karen to suddenly be all sabotage is so sexy with each other feels SO sudden. And almost unnecessary. Like, there are bigger fish to fry, you guys! Hello? Fisk is keeping people locked up indefinitely and disappearing them! Kirsten is drowning in legal cases! Heather is being HAUNTED! Why are you two having little romantic moments in between being branded terrorists?
āThatās what I doā / āThatās what you do.ā
Frank kills people. Thatās what he does. But he is going to kill so that others can live. He is going to kill to save those who cannot defend themselves. He is The Punisher, extolling justice as he sees fitā-but the flip side of Punishing is always about protecting. Protecting anyone undeserving from harm. Protecting others from not going through what he went through.
Karen gets people killed. We can argue about how much things are her fault or if the blame lies entirely with the actual killers, but Karen definitely still blames herself. Over and over again she is the one left saying āitās my fault.ā Karen is followed around by a pile of bodies on her conscience and it just keeps growing. Kevin. Danny Fisher. Ben Urich. Jerry the marine, killed after speaking up for her. The Anvil security guards at the hotel. Jasper Evans and 3 co workers at the Bulletin. Father Lantom. And now Foggy. Dear God, Foggy.
Death follows everywhere Karen Page goes.
And letās be clear, I am NOT saying Karen IS the one responsible for every single one of these. But these deaths still haunt her. Every single one. Even when her intentions is just to do the right thing, to seek the truth, to bring justice, it always goes wrong and people always die.
It has always bugged the hell out of me when Frank says āThatās my life. You wanna be a part of that?ā and Karen turns away in frustration and has no response. I want her to shove it back in face and yell āThatās already my life!ā
No, Karen isnāt pulling the trigger but people around her keep dying. She is out here trying to do more harm than good, and yet, it keeps happeningā until it fucking breaks her. People get shot, stabbed, executed right next to her, yet she survives. Death never touches her. If Frank is like Hades, a God of Death, taking lives to the underworld, Karen is its Queen, his Persephone, perhaps unwillingly plunged into his world, but once there surpringly finding herself most understood. Deborah Ann Woll has spoken about if Karen ever opened up to Frank about her dark history, he would be the one who could truly understand her. I wish one day we could actually get that conversation on screen.
In my head canons at least, this is the real reason Karen moved to San Francisco. Not to run. Not to start over. Not even because she was hurt by Matt for shutting her out. But because staying near him and anyone else she care aboutā¦. Is going to get them killed. She is the liability. I donāt know what she was ābusyā doing in SF (and from a comment of Debās about having her own ideas about what Karen was doing out thereā¦ so it sounds like the show isnāt even going to address itā¦. arg!), but I picture her just keeping her head down. Matt was off forging his robot-life with Murdock and McDuffie and Heather, going through the motions and trying to act ānormal,ā but Karen just goes to her job, goes to her apartment, and doesnāt try to make any connections. Itās too risky. Anyone she talks to for too long, or gets close with, they might die. And yeah itās depressing and bleak, but thatās why Karen went to San Francisco. She is PUNISHING HERSELF by getting as far away from everything as possible.
But whose phone number does she have? Who is the first person she calls when her fears that her surviving family (Matt) is in danger again? Frank. Because she trusts him over anyone else to do whatever it takes to keep Matt alive. To help Matt keep himself alive. Karen may never entirely approve of Frankās methods, but she isnāt against them eitherā especially in a world where for these characters, the justice system fails them again, and again, and again. As Matt and Karen argued in DDs2, whatās more importantā? Saving lives or preventing lives from needing to be saved in the first place? Matt is shocked when Karen says that justice may rest in the hands of anyone other than God or a jury. He asks her if she really believes that and she says no, but then amends to maybe. Karen falls into a middle ground, a gray area, where death and killing are sometimes necessary. Are sometimes even just and deserved. As she said of Wesley, she wanted him dead. He deserved more. And while she may not want others to go through what she went through, to be changed by killing, to cross over to that side of the line and never come back, I very much believe that if it came down to losing another person she care about or taking another life, I believe Karen would choose the latter without hesitating. Because hesitation gets people killed.
Karenās bond with Frank runs deep. I think he understands her in a way that Matt doesnāt. Matt pushes everyone away, shuts them out, leaves before he can be left as a defense mechanism to protect himself without even realizing how much this pattern hurts his friends every single season. Karen meanwhile lives as if she is deserving of punishment, eternally trying to atone for the deaths sheās caused. And yet it would be through the Punisher himself that her greatest āsinā would be completely understood and absolved. Because while Matt may tell her that she can be forgiven, Frank is the one who would truly embrace all of her and say there is nothing to forgive. That what she did was right and good and if anyone tries to hurt her again she should bloody well do it again.
Frank and Karen are tied together through grief and guilt and yet in each otherās presence they feel something else too. Peace. They find solace in each other. They have a connection, so strong multiple characters comment on it. The showrunner even describes it as cosmic. Personally I donāt think itās because they are necessarily āsoul matesā or something trite like that. But they deeply, deeply understand and care for each other and are protective of each other. Frank will jump in front of a bullet for her and she will stand in front of him as a human shield. Life before life. This is what I want more of, for them to get time, for their connection to deepen. This isnāt even about wanting them to kiss, but yeah, that would be nice too. Because the message at the endā¦. is that love heals. Both of them. And maybe they canāt be together permanently because yes, that would probably mean Frank would retire, and obviously thatās not happeningā¦ at least any time soon.
But Frank staying away from Karen is not going to make her safer or her life less violent. That has been her life since well before she met Frank and continues to be her life. They are flip sides of the same coin, and together I think they rediscover a chance to love and LIVE.
Anyway, if the anti kastles are reading this far yaāll can just scroll now because im not looking for a shipping war and obviously we disagree at the fundamental core of Karenās morals or if she even has feelings for Frank.
Iāll just end with this quote from Jon, which I think demonstrates he also thinks along similar lines, that their emotional connection is what would be the unraveling of the Punisher, should he ever look for a way out of the darkness.
āI wish there could have been more of Karen and those two together. If there's one person in this world that I think that has the fortitude to handle anything Frank's got to give, and vice versa. I mean, they've both been to some dark and ugly places, but it's nothing either one of them can't handle, and they truly accept each other for who they are. I think if there's one person he could really connect with, it would be her. And that she could sort of get him out of it, if there is any getting out of it.ā
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