Many of the younger ccs speaking up about Wilbur's manipulation is INCREDIBLY concerning, and I don't think they'll be the last. I think it's also a big indication that it happened to Tommy too, and that he'll take a while to respond. People demanding an immediate response need to remember that he was likely a victim of it too, he just may not have been aware of it.
I mean, Wilbur's ADMITTED he relied on Tommy for his mental health when he was still a minor. That is NOT something adults should ever do and it has always been odd to me. It also makes it very hard for the minor involved to leave the friendship, since they see themselves as responsible for the older person. I don't think I need to really go into how unhealthy that sort of thing is, it isn't an uncommon occurrence and lot of people will have a better explanation than me. But it is something to keep in mind, that Tommy may feel responsible or have been groomed to excuse the behavior.
The library stream is another example of the manipulation, and I'm surprised no one is talking about it. Tommy literally talked about how uncomfortable he was at Wilbur's house. It was cold, he had no blanket, he didn't want to keep staying there, he would rather be out in public at night in a strange place. Then Wilbur just shows up out of nowhere and tells Tommy he's misremembering/being dramatic and pretty much shuts him up, gets him to stop talking shit about him. Everyone's exasperation with Tommy in the situation (being a minor alone and uncomfortable and uncertain of what to do, far from home with nowhere to go), helped Wilbur pull Tommy back in and convince him to go back to his house, especially since it was passed off as Wilbur being caring.
It was obvious to me during the stream that Tommy was telling the truth and Wilbur was the one lying, but I figured he was just being defensive because he didn't want all that online. Now we know that he had a LOT more to hide about his living situation that he didn't want being spilled, and manipulators/abusers don't tend to like it when someone goes and starts talking about the truth. They want to downplay it as much as possible, and Wilbur showing up in person to shut Tommy up and make fun of him for not wanting to stay with him, make it more lighthearted, is incredibly telling and I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone point that out.
There are so many other things I found odd throughout the years that finally have a proper explanation to them, but that's just a few examples. I'm not going to get too much further into it. Wilbur isn't who we should be focusing on, I just needed to get that out to move on from it.
I do think pointing out that Tommy has openly been manipulated is important because it may cause him to take a while to respond openly to all this while he processes. If Wilbur treated so many of his ex-friends badly it's safe to assume he did it to all of them, and we need to give everyone involved time to stop and think about the situation. A lot of people want Tommy to respond immediately, but he will need time to do that and it's only fair we give him the space to do that properly.
I also think it is so, so incredible that Shelby has given so many people the space and bravery to come forward. I believe there will be more people speaking up soon, they just need time. Support her and other victims!
It's very disrespectful to put Technoblade in this when shipping was against his boundaries. He said many times that it made him uncomfortable to be shipped with his friends, and just because he's gone doesn't mean it's okay to break those boundaries. He was a real person, have a little decency.
hey do me a favorite and put this on the more problematic ship in these polls literally Tombur which is more eugh than Dreamnoblade???? and also c!Techno is not a real person cc!Techno was (also we never shoved it in his face and tried to KEEP OUT OF HIS WAY???? Just polite ship stuff y'know?)
Eugh that is gross, and is also still about consent and boundaries. I can't really tell if you're supporting shipping Technoblade and while not supporting shipping other problematic ships, when it is the exact same issue, but it kind of reads that way. This is the post I saw, and I didn't exactly want to go digging on their account.
At the end of the day, nothing is polite if it disrespects the consent of a cc. It doesn't matter if they don't see it. It doesn't matter if they'll never see it. If someone has said NO to something, you don't go, "but what if I twist it in this way? but what if I-" a no is a no.
Also, ccTechnoblade liked piglin Technoblade and those kinds of interpretations of his character! Obviously ccTechnoblade wasn't a piglin IRL, those are not real. But he liked them, so those kinds of character interpretations are a-okay! He liked fanfiction and fanart and things people made for him. Obviously those are about his character a lot of the time, not his irl self. However, Technoblade disliked shipping, even with his character, and that's where the problem is. It doesn't matter if you say it's only his character, it's still disrespectful because he said no.
The second a ship is more important than boundaries, it's problematic and fetishizing that real person and the relationship being portrayed. It's saying that the imaginary relationship is more important than that real person's feelings and consent. Which is gross no matter what spin you try to put on it.
Respecting the people behind the characters really isn't that difficult at the end of the day.
Ok I'm in a different fandom now and let me put it this way since people in Genshin (my current fandom) are kinda having the same difficulty
c! = Character which is seperate from cc! = Content Character
Right now in Genshin people are dealing with a very shitty shitty voice actor for Tighnari are have come to the conclusions that the character and VA are very much separate entities
Even in this case, cc!Techno is technically just the VA/Actor of c!Techno. This is like if someone from a movie, like marvel, so say Robert Downey Jr. Asked people not to ship iron man with anyone
He doesn't have a say, it's not technically him. Also, there's a BIG difference between War Criminal Piglin who lives in the Arctic and Guy who plays minecraft online I would say so it's on of the easiest character to differentiate
Also Quackity is stated to be uncomfortable with shipping and yet. People still ship him and Wilbur so this fandom has some sort of weird double standard going on it seems with ships so let me just point that bit of information out
I do find it curious that you point out the unhealthy shipping issue in the dsmp; with Tommy and Wilbur, and also Quackity now, but still defend shipping Technoblade with people. You're clearly uncomfortable with people shipping Wilbur and Tommy- but if we apply your logic to it, there wouldn't be a problem. Both adults, not related on the dsmp, and just characters, right? But obviously there is a distinction there for you.
Part of it is because they aren't playing completely different characters. Sure, Technoblade isn't an anarchist pig irl, but his character still acts like him and it's an extension of himself. So are the rest of the characters on the dsmp. Bc that's what people come to see. The cc, acting out their story. That's why it's an issue to say they're separate from the character- because to the cc and a lot of other people, it is still them. They aren't playing a completely different person. You wouldn't write them as a completely different person- you use their same mannerisms and quirks that make them THEM. You might still reference the potato war and Hypixel stuff and the duel that was just ccTechnoblade. A regular actor and voice actor don't have that overlap, and that's what makes it different.
Honestly, there isn't really a reason for you to feel attacked or defend shipping Technoblade with people, considering that you've left the fandom, beyond the fact that you have written yourself. It's against Techno's boundaries. You know how he felt about it. That's the truth, and that's all I initially said. At the end of the day, how you feel about that, knowing that, is up to you. It has nothing to do with me. I'm just respecting his boundaries and wishing everyone else could do the same.
Tommy was a minor which is why I feel uncomfortable and c!Tommy is still often portrayed as a minor Techno and c!Techno are both adults
Being uncomfy with a minor x adult ship vs a adult x adult one is not mutually exclusive????
I only bring up Quackity because it seems like a double standard to me, but idk idk
And sure sure my scp dnb au, up dnb au, librarian dnb au, serial killer dnb au, mafia dnb au, parent dnb au, fnaf dnb au, ghost dream dnb au, totally totally are so true to the both c! and cc! For sure I've bet they've been in so many of those situations irl (/sarcasm)
And! He was not definitely said it was against his boundaries
I wouldn't have brought it up if you hadn’t went ick dreamnoblade and not ick tombur???? Like I said, Tommy is most portrayed as a minor and I'm guessing still is, but if you want to get upset over people who mind their own business with a FICTIONAL ADULT SHIP then feel free, personally? I'm going to bed lol
I never said the others weren't equally gross to me, this was just the post that I saw showing up on my timeline. I would've said the exact same thing if I'd seen that one instead, and I have spoken out on other posts circulating with other boundary breaking ships. You responded to me first, I was speaking directly to the op of the post (who I'm sure we're annoying at this point).
You're 100% correct that minor ships are not the same level of severity, but I also very clearly did not reference minor ships bc they aren't the same thing. I said that it's still a double standard, because the same way you can say "it's okay because it's just characters" others can say "it's fine because they're their current ages (adults) and characters in this one." I presented your own argument back to you and you didn't like it. Boundary breaking is kind of a slippery slope like that- at what point is it too much?
Techno most definitely said it was against his boundaries, but have a good sleep! It was a fun discussion, I always like debating things with willing participants. Take care!
It's very disrespectful to put Technoblade in this when shipping was against his boundaries. He said many times that it made him uncomfortable to be shipped with his friends, and just because he's gone doesn't mean it's okay to break those boundaries. He was a real person, have a little decency.
hey do me a favorite and put this on the more problematic ship in these polls literally Tombur which is more eugh than Dreamnoblade???? and also c!Techno is not a real person cc!Techno was (also we never shoved it in his face and tried to KEEP OUT OF HIS WAY???? Just polite ship stuff y'know?)
Eugh that is gross, and is also still about consent and boundaries. I can't really tell if you're supporting shipping Technoblade and while not supporting shipping other problematic ships, when it is the exact same issue, but it kind of reads that way. This is the post I saw, and I didn't exactly want to go digging on their account.
At the end of the day, nothing is polite if it disrespects the consent of a cc. It doesn't matter if they don't see it. It doesn't matter if they'll never see it. If someone has said NO to something, you don't go, "but what if I twist it in this way? but what if I-" a no is a no.
Also, ccTechnoblade liked piglin Technoblade and those kinds of interpretations of his character! Obviously ccTechnoblade wasn't a piglin IRL, those are not real. But he liked them, so those kinds of character interpretations are a-okay! He liked fanfiction and fanart and things people made for him. Obviously those are about his character a lot of the time, not his irl self. However, Technoblade disliked shipping, even with his character, and that's where the problem is. It doesn't matter if you say it's only his character, it's still disrespectful because he said no.
The second a ship is more important than boundaries, it's problematic and fetishizing that real person and the relationship being portrayed. It's saying that the imaginary relationship is more important than that real person's feelings and consent. Which is gross no matter what spin you try to put on it.
Respecting the people behind the characters really isn't that difficult at the end of the day.
Ok I'm in a different fandom now and let me put it this way since people in Genshin (my current fandom) are kinda having the same difficulty
c! = Character which is seperate from cc! = Content Character
Right now in Genshin people are dealing with a very shitty shitty voice actor for Tighnari are have come to the conclusions that the character and VA are very much separate entities
Even in this case, cc!Techno is technically just the VA/Actor of c!Techno. This is like if someone from a movie, like marvel, so say Robert Downey Jr. Asked people not to ship iron man with anyone
He doesn't have a say, it's not technically him. Also, there's a BIG difference between War Criminal Piglin who lives in the Arctic and Guy who plays minecraft online I would say so it's on of the easiest character to differentiate
Also Quackity is stated to be uncomfortable with shipping and yet. People still ship him and Wilbur so this fandom has some sort of weird double standard going on it seems with ships so let me just point that bit of information out
I do find it curious that you point out the unhealthy shipping issue in the dsmp; with Tommy and Wilbur, and also Quackity now, but still defend shipping Technoblade with people. You're clearly uncomfortable with people shipping Wilbur and Tommy- but if we apply your logic to it, there wouldn't be a problem. Both adults, not related on the dsmp, and just characters, right? But obviously there is a distinction there for you.
Part of it is because they aren't playing completely different characters. Sure, Technoblade isn't an anarchist pig irl, but his character still acts like him and it's an extension of himself. So are the rest of the characters on the dsmp. Bc that's what people come to see. The cc, acting out their story. That's why it's an issue to say they're separate from the character- because to the cc and a lot of other people, it is still them. They aren't playing a completely different person. You wouldn't write them as a completely different person- you use their same mannerisms and quirks that make them THEM. You might still reference the potato war and Hypixel stuff and the duel that was just ccTechnoblade. A regular actor and voice actor don't have that overlap, and that's what makes it different.
Honestly, there isn't really a reason for you to feel attacked or defend shipping Technoblade with people, considering that you've left the fandom, beyond the fact that you have written yourself. It's against Techno's boundaries. You know how he felt about it. That's the truth, and that's all I initially said. At the end of the day, how you feel about that, knowing that, is up to you. It has nothing to do with me. I'm just respecting his boundaries and wishing everyone else could do the same.
It's very disrespectful to put Technoblade in this when shipping was against his boundaries. He said many times that it made him uncomfortable to be shipped with his friends, and just because he's gone doesn't mean it's okay to break those boundaries. He was a real person, have a little decency.
hey do me a favorite and put this on the more problematic ship in these polls literally Tombur which is more eugh than Dreamnoblade???? and also c!Techno is not a real person cc!Techno was (also we never shoved it in his face and tried to KEEP OUT OF HIS WAY???? Just polite ship stuff y'know?)
Eugh that is gross, and is also still about consent and boundaries. I can't really tell if you're supporting shipping Technoblade and while not supporting shipping other problematic ships, when it is the exact same issue, but it kind of reads that way. This is the post I saw, and I didn't exactly want to go digging on their account.
At the end of the day, nothing is polite if it disrespects the consent of a cc. It doesn't matter if they don't see it. It doesn't matter if they'll never see it. If someone has said NO to something, you don't go, "but what if I twist it in this way? but what if I-" a no is a no.
Also, ccTechnoblade liked piglin Technoblade and those kinds of interpretations of his character! Obviously ccTechnoblade wasn't a piglin IRL, those are not real. But he liked them, so those kinds of character interpretations are a-okay! He liked fanfiction and fanart and things people made for him. Obviously those are about his character a lot of the time, not his irl self. However, Technoblade disliked shipping, even with his character, and that's where the problem is. It doesn't matter if you say it's only his character, it's still disrespectful because he said no.
The second a ship is more important than boundaries, it's problematic and fetishizing that real person and the relationship being portrayed. It's saying that the imaginary relationship is more important than that real person's feelings and consent. Which is gross no matter what spin you try to put on it.
Respecting the people behind the characters really isn't that difficult at the end of the day.
It's very disrespectful to put Technoblade in this when shipping was against his boundaries. He said many times that it made him uncomfortable to be shipped with his friends, and just because he's gone doesn't mean it's okay to break those boundaries. He was a real person, have a little decency.
I've seen a lot of posts absolutely bashing ccs on the dsmp for their character choices during lore and I just want to talk about it a little bit. This is going to get kind of long, so buckle in.
As stated above, I've seen a lot of people bashing character choices on the dsmp. Now, it's perfectly okay to say, "I don't agree with what this character did." Because that is a perfectly reasonable reaction to many of the character choices that c!dsmp characters make- they're questionable at best! However, I do think it's wrong to shunt those beliefs onto ccs and start to demand that they change their story or apologize.
During exile, I saw a lot of people get upset at Dream and act like he was genuinely logging on to ab*se Tommy every day. It was a heavy topic, and it was phenomenal acting, a fantastic story. But that's all it was. Dream is just some guy in Florida and Tommy is better than ever, they're friends. But still, people were genuinely upset by it and at Dream specifically.
I also remember a lot of people getting mad at Techno for breaking Dream out of prison or for doomsday, for the pit and Tubbo's execution. Like, not mad at c!Technoblade, but at ACTUAL cc!Technoblade, not wanting him on the dsmp anymore. Like, Techno obviously never supported real t*rrorism, it was just another piece to the story they were all telling. Still, people seemed unable to make that distinction and were genuinely mad at him over a character.
I've seen a LOT of people come at bbh for character choices recently, I think because a lot of them revolve around Tommy. The prime path, their pranks on each other, c!bbh's victim blaming. People keep trying to get cc!bad to take it back or apologize or change his character, and they get upset when he won't do that. Saying that they don't think he should even stream dsmp because they don't like his character (which is kind of funny, tbf, but still).
As a lot of ccs are bringing their stories to an end in preparation for season 2, I see posts like that cropping up again. Mad at Eret for character choices, at Sam, at Tubbo, even saying that they 'don't deserve their characters.'
The ccs on the dsmp are telling a story with their characters. You don't have to like it, or even agree, but you don't have a right to tell them how to tell that story. You have to learn to understand the distinction between what is a character and what is the cc. Dream doesn't support ab*se, nor bbh victim blaming.
All that said, I do have a bit of sympathy because that kind of behavior definitely speaks to someone being younger. I read an interesting discussion on an ff forum a while back about how a lot of this behavior tends to come from younger fans who haven't learned boundaries yet and can't quite comprehend yet that another person's art doesn't have to conform to their own beliefs. But I do think it's a boundary and a respect that a lot of people, (especially, unfortunately, in this fandom), need to learn.
It isn't your story to tell. It isn't your place to demand changes. You can ask, but you can't get upset at the repsonse. Please chill.
in the tags of this post, i briefly mentioned a correlation between c!techno's dehumanization and his apology to c!tubbo for the red festival. i think a lot of it, still, has to do with his feeling of guilt for not being able to save c!ranboo and therefore wanting to do everything he can to honor the memory of his dear friend and disciple.
but i also believe that the red festival was one of the clearest examples of c!techno being used as a weapon; he was in an impossible situation with no good way out, being forced to commit an act of violence that he didn't want to do.
and it's like... of course he would think about that constantly and all the things that he could've done differently even if there really wasn't anything. he had one life, he was outnumbered, equipped with their best armor, what was he going to do?
'i should've been willin' to die for my ideals,' says techno and part of me thinks that by giving that apology, by saying 'this is the thing i could've done', it's c!techno trying bring back some of his agency, because if he accepts responsibility for it, then it wasn't just him being used to make an example, right?
Transcript from Wilbur's stream "The Exorcism of Uncle Nasty" at 30:02.
Tommy: You ready, chat? I don't know why- you're okay, aren't you, Uncle Nasty? This is getting strange! He's just my happy little boy that sits behind me and I chat to it- wow, and the lights have gone off. Okay.
(Pause).
Tommy: Uh. Okay! Oh wait, I need to ask him a question first. Okay. Uncle Nasty.
Spirit Box: X-box.
Tommy: Uncle Nasty-
Spirit Box: Scanning. FM.
Tommy: Uncle Nasty, it's gonna be okay. Are you feeling okay, Uncle Nasty? Uncle Nasty, you're not haunted, are you?
Spirit Box: *screams*
Tommy: Okay, you screamed. He just screamed!
Tommy: You know, he's probably terrified.
Spirit Box: Did you find that, Tommy?
Tommy: Ahh! Big cums, big cums! It just said did you find that, Tommy!
Wilbur: Hey, hey, hey. Wait wait wait, hey.
Tommy: It just went, it just went-
Wilbur(?): What happened?
Tommy: Did you find that, Tommy? I said, 'you're going to be safe, aren't you?' And it said, 'did you find that Tommy?'.
Transcript from Wilbur's stream, "The Exorcism of Uncle Nasty," at around 32:34.
Wilbur: So what we're gonna do here, uh, Tommy, is we're going to ask it some questions and if it's able to interact we should get an answer pretty lucid, from-
Tommy: Stay strong Uncle Nasty.
Wilbur: Stay strong Uncle Nasty.
Tommy: He's a-
Wilbur: We don't know if the spirit is actually called Uncle Nasty.
Tommy: He's a kind soul, he's, it's Uncle Nasty-
Wilbur: We don't know if there even is a spirit.
Tommy: There's not a spirit. Look at him, do you see a spirit behind those eyes?
Spirit Box: X-box. Scanning. FM.
Wilbur: Okay. So, Tommy? Do you want to begin with the very first- ah!
Charlie: What the- ah!
Wilbur: Sorry. Sorry! Ah. So Tommy, do you-
Tommy: What do you want me to do with this?
Wilbur: You need to- just check if there's any fluctuations, anything that goes wrong, okay? That's always gonna be five there, cause you're right on the pump.
Tommy: It is right on his crotch.
Wilbur: Tommy, I need you to- I need you to ask it-
Tommy: There's a reason he's called Uncle Nasty.
Wilbur: I need you to ask Uncle Nasty a question.
Tommy: Uncle Nasty! You've never done anything nasty have you?
Spirit Box: No I haven't.
Tommy: It said no I haven't.
Spirit Box: (Inaudible).
Tommy: Have a look at that right there.
Wilbur: Shit. Put it there?
Spirit Box: This is wrong.
Tommy: He says wrong. He says this is wrong!
Wilbur: Wait.
Tommy: Did you hear him say this is-
Wilbur: Wait, wait.
Wilbur: Uncle Nasty. Did you say 'this is wrong'?
Tommy: Speak Uncle Nasty! Speak!
Spirit Box: (Inaudible).
Tommy: Love the faculty music.
Spirit Box: Birthday.
Spirit Box: Monster.
Charlie: Mon- I heard monster.
Wilbur: I heard birthday.
Tommy: I heard this is wrong.
Wilbur: 'This is wrong' and 'bir-', okay, uh, wait no, go back up to where you left it? It's gone down. Charlie?
Charlie: Yeah?
Wilbur: Can you keep log of the fact that we've uh- we've, we've went up. So during the spirit box reading the EMF meter reached three and it's now, as after we've finished gone back down to two.
Charlie: Okay.
Tommy: I'm honestly sure that he said 'this is wrong'. Oh, it's three here.
Wilbur: That's cause of the bear. The bear's emitting a pulse.
Tommy: Honestly, I promise you, he said 'this is wrong'.
Wilbur: Okay. I just-
Charlie: I heard- I heard monster.
Tommy: No, the first time. The first time.
Wilbur: Okay, I think we need to ask further questions.
Tommy: Can I speak to him?
Wilbur: Absolutely. So, so-
Tommy: He listens to me more.
Wilbur: Okay, so what you need to do is keep it quite close to the microphone so chat can help, but it's this button here to begin scanning, this second button. That.
Tommy: There?
Wilbur: Yup. Ask a question, ask a question. Wait, wait- so, this is loud. So ask a question.
Tommy: Okay.
Wilbur: For, for, and then-
Tommy: Uncle Nasty, you love me don't you?
Spirit Box: (Possible yes).
(Indistinct talking from Wilbur).
Spirit Box: Behind the seat.
Tommy: Behind the seat?! He just said behind the seat!
Charlie: Behind the seat!
Spirit Box: They warned (want?) you.
Tommy: He said they want- he said behind the seat.
Wilbur: Alright, pass it?
Tommy: Behind the-
Wilbur: Your question- your question was Uncle Nasty do you love me?
Tommy: And he said, 'behind the seat.'
Wilbur: Do you have a seat? In your room that Uncle Nasty si-
Tommy: Yeah, he sits behind my seat!
Wilbur: Oh no man! No fucking way!
Charlie: Oh no! (Inaudible).
Tommy: What? He does though! Wait, what does that mean?
Wilbur: Wait, wait, wait. (3x) Turn the lights on! Nah, nah, nah. Get those lights on.
Tommy: Where?
Wilbur: Fucking-
Charlie: Uh oh!
Wilbur: That's not cool.
Tommy: Let me lap it up, Santa?
(Indistinct Wilbur groaning).
Tommy: What, he says he sits behind my seat, what's wrong with that?
Wilbur: You said, 'do you like me', and it said, 'behind the seat'.
I hate how this post makes it seem like it's both their fault like cTommy hasn't reached out to reconcile multiple times. Like it's mostly on cTechno why the two haven't made up sorry y'all
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