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Someone I know irl who is vegan keeps trying to tell me that I’m an animal abuser, and just as bad as a child r*pist because I eat meat/support eating meat. They literally won’t listen to me when I tell them this rhetoric is genuinely sick and evil. I don’t know how to tell them to stop, and I’m not in a situation where I can cut them out of my life unfortunately

That sounds real awful anon, I'm sorry to hear that. Usually my personal strategy is to just be as annoying as possible and not treat them with any seriousness. Go "yes I love eating babies. I think we should eat human babies too." I understand that's a hard way to act with something that is genuinely upsetting though. Unfortunately my only advice is to not play their game. Don't let them lead you into arguments. They don't want a conversation, they just want to upset you. Change the subject, ignore them, whatever you can to not give in. By being genuine you are playing by the rules of their game, so don't play them. I hope it can get better for you.

I don't think people that call livestock slaves even understand why slavery is bad tbh

thegenderal

even before i lived in a place with a massive population of feral cats decimating the wildlife i had read the studies and knew the data said that TNR did not work and we need to be trapping and euthanizing feral cats but now that i’ve lived in a place where there are an enormous number of feral cats it’s like, inconceivable to me that anyone supports TNR, not just for the health of the world but for the sake of the fucking cats

thegenderal

nobody will even acknowledge it not even in most conservation circles. We have a solution to a massive, massive problem that is more humane, cheaper, easier, takes less time, prevents animal suffering, and saves valuable members of our disappearing ecosystem. And nobody is even willing to theoretically acknowledge that it exists outside of a few very small circles.

thegenderal

it works. It works. It is better for the cats. It’s better for the cats. Living in a place where you cannot drive 10 minutes without seeing a new roadkill cat almost every single day really makes you think about how much suffering could have been prevented if we just dealt with the problem we have created. It’s not a pleasant way to go, being hit by a car. Or being ripped apart by a predator, or eating a poison, or starving to death, of dying of an infection, or an illness, or any of the hundred thousand ways an animal in the wild passes without human intervention. Euthanasia is simply falling asleep. It is fucking wild to me that saying you think we should take responsibility for our mistakes and ensure that cats fall asleep peacefully instead of capturing them and then hurling them back out into the world SPECIFICALLY in order to allow them to die in agony makes people treat you like a fucking serial killer.

thegenderal

And if you don’t care about cats dying in agony do you care about the world around you? There’s a species of bird we only know ever existed because someone’s cat brought home our only example. That’s horrific. We’ve lost so much biodiversity because we simply won’t listen to the research, which again, has proven that TNR is not effective.

thegenderal

a peaceful death is not the worst thing that could happen to an animal.

thegenderal

@cathartidae sources for ya!

Sources:

https://ask.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/UW468 “How Effective and Humane Is Trap-Neuter-Release (TNR) for Feral Cats?”

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6523511/ “A Case of Letting the Cat out of The Bag—Why Trap-Neuter-Return Is Not an Ethical Solution for Stray Cat (Felis catus) Management” (also has a thousand references attached that are handy)

Not a reference so much as the human society actively admitting that TNR does nothing to decrease population, actively contributes to harming wildlife, and doesn’t actually help the cats in any way, just reduces some of the nuisance behavior that people complain about: https://www.animalhumanesociety.org/resource/real-impacts-trap-neuter-return

Unscientific from here on out as i don’t feel like trying to find the studies i read in like January of last year:

https://hahf.org/awake/the-trouble-with-trap-vaccinate-neuter-return/ “The Trouble With Trap-Neuter-Re (Abandon!) from the hillsborough animal health foundation, articles also link to studies

https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/The-Evidence-Against-TNR.pdf from the american bird conservancy, has scientific articles quoted.

thegenderal

Even More Sources on TNR being non-viable and ways that cats are impacting the world from birds to *hawai’i’s monk seals*

Animal Emergency and Referral Center of Minnesota. (2022, October 26). Indoor cats vs. outdoor cats. Animal Emergency & Referral Center of Minnesota. https://aercmn.com/indoor-cats-vs-outdoor-cats/

Campbell, V. (2017, January 25). The Obituary of the Stephens Island Wren. All About Birds. https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/the-obituary-of-the-stephens-island-wren/

Castillo, D., & Clarke, A. L. (2003). Trap/neuter/release methods ineffective in controlling domestic cat “colonies” on public lands. Natural Areas Journal, 23(3).

Coe, S. T., Elmore, J. A., Elizondo, E. C., & Loss, S. R. (2021). Free-ranging domestic cat abundance and sterilization percentage following five years of a trap–neuter–return program. Wildlife Biology, 2021(1). https://doi.org/10.2981/wlb.00799

del Hoyo, J., Collar, N., Kirwan, G. M., & Sharpe, C. J. (2022, October 25). Guadalupe storm-petrel (Hydrobates Macrodactylus), version 1.2. Birds of the World. https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/guspet/cur/introduction

Dickman, C. R., & Newsome, T. M. (2015). Individual hunting behaviour and prey specialisation in the house cat Felis catus: Implications for conservation and management. Applied Animal Behaviour Science, 173, 76–87. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2014.09.021

Edge. (2019, June 19). Guadalupe storm-petrel. EDGE of Existence. https://www.edgeofexistence.org/species/guadalupe-storm-petrel/

Galbreath, R., & Brown, D. (2004). The tale of the lighthouse-keeper’s cat: Discovery and extinction of the Stephens Island wren (Traversia lyalli). Notornis, 51(4).

Hawai’i Department of Land and Natural Resources. (2025). Feral cats. Feral Cats. https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/feral-cats/#:~:text=Feral%20cats%20on%20islands%20have,kill%20approximately%202.4%20billion%20birds.

Loss, S. R., Will, T., & Marra, P. P. (2013). The impact of free-ranging domestic cats on wildlife of the United States. Nature Communications, 4(1). https://doi.org/10.1038/ncomms2380

McGregor, H., Legge, S., Jones, M. E., & Johnson, C. N. (2015). Feral cats are better killers in open habitats, revealed by animal-borne video. PLOS ONE, 10(8). https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0133915

Medina, F. M., Bonnaud, E., Vidal, E., Tershy, B. R., Zavaleta, E. S., Josh Donlan, C., Keitt, B. S., Corre, M., Horwath, S. V., & Nogales, M. (2011). A global review of the impacts of invasive cats on Island Endangered Vertebrates. Global Change Biology, 17(11), 3503–3510. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2486.2011.02464.x

National Research Council. (1992, January 1). Scientific Bases for the Preservation of the Hawaiian Crow. U.S. National Library of Medicine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK235935/

NOAA. (2024, August 29). Toxoplasmosis and its effects on Hawaiʻi Marine Wildlife. NOAA Fisheries. https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/pacific-islands/endangered-species-conservation/toxoplasmosis-and-its-effects-hawaii-marine

Read, J. L., Dickman, C. R., Boardman, W. S., & Lepczyk, C. A. (2020). Reply to Wolf et al.: Why trap-neuter-return (TNR) is not an ethical solution for Stray Cat Management. Animals, 10(9), 1525. https://doi.org/10.3390/ani10091525

Reed, L. (2022). The effects of free-roaming cats on native wildlife populations. Wildlife Rehabilitation Bulletin, 40(1), 17–21. https://doi.org/10.53607/wrb.v40.250

Salano, E. (2024, October 5). Eliciting the effect free roaming cats have on Native Hawaiian wildlife using stable isotope analysis. UKnowledge. https://uknowledge.uky.edu/biology_etds/103/

Steele, J. H., Thorpe, S. A., & Turekian, K. K. (2009). Encyclopedia of Ocean Sciences. Academic Press.

science says it’s long past time to stop prolonging the suffering of feral cats, for the sake of the people, the native wildlife, and the goddamn cats themselves.

boundless-ennui

I was at a friend's house to check on carcasses I had macerating in his yard. A little grey cat ran up to me, yelling her head off in friendliness and wanting nothing more than to be pet. I had nothing to give her but let my friend know he should catch her since she was so friendly. I am ashamed to admit I didn't give her much thought beyond that, finishing my work and giving her a last pet before going home.

My friend told me how he'd seen her before but she always vanished before he could catch her. He works far too many hours and is always tired so he couldn't prioritize catching this cat.

Three months pass with no sign of her. I go back with my partner to check on carcasses and this same little grey cat appears. This time, however, a tooth has been snapped off and her tongue is so badly cut that she can't keep it in her mouth. She was thin and dirty and screaming to please be given some food.

This time I couldn't look away. I asked my friend's girlfriend if I could borrow a cat carrier. She loaned me one and a tin of wet food that the grey cat willingly followed into the carrier. She didn't care at all about being put into the carrier - all she wanted was a hand on her. She'd arch up against the top just so my hand would rest on her back for a moment.

We drove through rush hour traffic to the only shelter still open. We knew we couldn't keep her and I couldn't stand the thought of putting her back out on the streets to die slowly.

The shelter couldn't take her. Her ear was clipped so she was a "community cat" and outside their ability to help. They tried desperately to offer alternatives to me as I cried over her carrier, knowing I couldn't take her home but also that if I didn't I couldn't live with the thought of her back on the streets.

I made a Hail Mary call to a local friend who is very connected in our city. They didn't have my number saved but answered all the same to hear me sobbing about a cat I'd found and to please help me find a place for her. Please. If I don't find something then she'll be alone on the streets again to die.

My friend came through. I could keep the cat in their garage overnight and in the morning my friend would be back in the city and could find someone to help the cat.

The shelter folk gave me a crate and some food - their hands were tied but they didn't want to leave me with nothing. They were good people doing the best they could in their own system. Community cats were ones they weren't allowed to "waste" resources on. Ostensibly they'd been dealt with and their fate decided. There was nothing the shelter folks were allowed to do for them.

I took the cat to my friend's garage. She was settled into a crate on towels, happy as a clam to be warm and safe. This was a cat made to be loved and to love, as she immediately began trying to groom one of my friend's roommates. He stayed in the garage with her, giving her food and water and in exchange having no say on whether she was in his lap or not. She was always in his lap.

Nobby Nobbs (so named for the only other character known to man that is as scrungly as she is) was then formally adopted by my friend. Her tongue has healed, her fur remains scrungly, and she's every bit the rabid love bug I suspected her to be when she came to me yelling to be pet.

She's a TNR cat. Someone thought they were doing her a kindness in that and if nothing else she didn't add kittens to the world but that doesn't negate the pain she suffered before I found her - the broken teeth, the lacerated tongue, the ulcerated cheeks, the flea-bald patchiness of her coat.

I say this as someone who adores this cat and has the privilege to see her loved and cherished: I wish she'd never had to suffer what she did. I wish people were alright making the harder call that leads to less misery on the side of the cats.

TNR is a polite fiction, nothing more. Just so the humans can pretend they've done right by the same cats they're letting loose to die miserably somewhere else. As long as the humans don't see it it's fine.

The shelter folks told me she's a community cat and that I could take her home and release her by my house. Then I could feed her myself and keep up with her and know where she was! I could still keep her, after a fashion.

I am not proud of how I snarled back that I would never exchange a quick death for a slow one. I would be giving her a different funeral plot, not giving her a life. Even near me she'd be just as vulnerable to the innumerable predators that find cats quite delicious, let alone cars and poisons and the other cruelties humans practice on stray cats.

She's the second stray cat I've met that when I held them the cat melted in my arms, purring and so desperately wanting to be loved. The first cat I was able to trap and take to a local shelter only to find when I called to check on him a day later that his health had been so terrible, so beyond help, that he'd been put down. All the love in that tiny body lost because the people I lived beside didn't care enough to trap the cats they had.

My partner was asleep. I woke her up to crawl into her arms and sob, my heart breaking for the stupidity of the humans who hadn't cared enough to grant this poor little cat the chance to be either an indoor cat, loved and cared for, or to grant him a quick death long before I met him. I've other stories of the cats they kept around, essentially feeding the poor souls to the predatory birds and wandering dogs that frequented our area.

TNR doesn't work. It is a lie humans tell ourselves so we can pretend we haven't failed these animals on a massive scale. Cats are invasive and cause massive harm in their turn. It is humanity who needs to deal with this crisis, this horror we've made, and I pray one day we look it square in the face and vow to make it right.

thegenderal

sorry

#living in the country where there are so so many feral and stray cats - tnr is doing literally nothing #people just keep seeing more and more cats

aren't you violating your parole with this animal abuse content?

This is the strangest ask I have ever gotten. Is this a bot? Hello?

I have a curious question for everyone that works with dogs. What is your perception and/or opinion of shar peis?

Can't believe I have to say this but I am PRO PALESTINE

Go to the conservation tag and one of the first posts is a zionist talking about how Israel loves conservation and they have indigenous knowledge of the land so they take good care of it.... had to immediately close the app

Wouldn’t a horse with a broken back have to be euthanized no matter if he did or did not finish the race?

It's a matter of making a horse in severe pain keep running so that you can win a race

hope-for-the-planet

Black Soldier Fly (BSF) farming could provide a scalable solution to malnutrition and environmental degradation, following the launch of the

From the article:

Black Soldier Fly (BSF) farming could provide a scalable solution to malnutrition and environmental degradation, following the launch of the world’s largest community-owned BSF farm in Madagascar, suggests a new study. The research, led by Health In Harmony and Madagascar Biodiversity Center, found strong local acceptance of insect-based foods in communities near the Manombo Special Reserve. Surveys across 70 households showed 95% of young people responded positively to BSF-based products, while 90% of participants said they would be willing to farm the insects themselves. The findings highlight BSF larvae as a nutrient-dense, low-impact food source that can be produced using organic waste, generating both protein and fertiliser. Researchers said the model could reduce reliance on forest resources, a key driver of deforestation, while improving food security through year-round production.

Saw the wildest take from a TNR person in response to anti TNR people telling them that cats are invasive. It was just a tangent about how they want fewer squirrels and dolphins even though they aren't invasive because they think they're weird

This is why I believe that the crazy TNR people don't care about the environment or animals other than cats

#sorry but tnr people have some of the wildest opinions

orcinus-veterinarius

When I was 15-16, I talked my family out of visiting zoos (something we’d always loved) and even told people I no longer wanted to be a vet (my dream since 8) because I “loved animals too much.” Basically, I was a genuinely animal-loving kid with a computer who trusted the first thing I saw on Google, which was usually PETA.

All this to say… you can change your mind. You don’t have to cling to something when you have learned the information you were given was incorrect. You can grow.

orcinus-veterinarius

Also what gave me those tools to grow was not the Internet but actually getting a degree in zoology and being taught the science of animals, their behavior, and their care. Actually learning how to properly research and what sources can and cannot be trusted. Then later, during my doctorate, gaining first-hand experiences in zoo and aquarium settings and seeing for myself how wrong I had been.

Higher education for the win.

#i was very much a 'humans are the real virus' kind of animal loving kid #character growth

agro-carnist

What compels someone to force a horse to keep running after breaking their back?

horsefigureoftheday

According to the vets and jockey, the horse showed no signs of fracture until he slowed down to a trot, after crossing the finish line. I don't know enough about gaits to be able to tell.

Gold Dancer is put down after he suffers a broken back when winning the Mildmay Novices' Chase on day two of the Grand National Meeting.

@isthehorsevideocute Do you have anything to add?

agro-carnist

I watched the video of Gold Dancer and to me it seemed like something was very off with his hind end after he fell, but I'm also not a horse person so I could be wrong. Though I still think it's fucked up to keep riding a horse after an accident instead of immediately discounting and checking the horse even if there are no immediate signs.

#horsey people feel free to give your two cents

afieldinengland

normal country latest

redsunrisinginthesky

theladymisandry

You CANNOT hide these in the tags @injuries-in-dust

What compels someone to force a horse to keep running after breaking their back?

#rhetorical question because i know why

What kills me about those vegans that call animal farming a genocide is that it can't be genocide by definition because it requires intent to eradicate but their desire to keep livestock from breeding so they can naturally die out does meet the definition of genocide

something tells me that for that "misanthropic vegan" the misanthropy came first. he feels depressed and self-loathing about humanity and society and himself & projects that onto veganism & animal rights to give it some depth.

Wouldn't be surprised tbh. I feel like veganism is a great excuse for misanthropes to pretend they are hateful and miserable for moral reasons, which gives then a good excuse to also be egotistical. Can't criticize them because then you are an evil speciesist carnist or whatever

I said I wouldn't have another corgi for a while after my dog died because I didn't want to compare them but oh my god I miss having a corgi so bad

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