There's the part of Claire that makes me go ugh... And there's the part that makes me go huh? Wtf?
Except for the niche six people who would fight to the death in her honor, it's hard to watch Claire without questioning her motives and the writers' motives, even. She's written in such a strange way (rewritten, actually) that it has been talked to death in the fandom. I watched some TikTok takes on Claire recently and almost everyone was like "wtf is a Claire?".
Is it just bad writing?
The fact that she seems a lot more normal in previous versions of the script was brought to my attention in my previous meta about her. I doubt very much that she would have blown me away, especially since I was literally born a sydcarmy, but maybe she wouldn't raise the hair on my neck?
She was purposefully written to be weird. Bad weird.
But it's also done so subtly that the other 6 Claire stans think we're absolutely batshit crazy and just irrational haters when we bring it up.
The beginning
Carmy runs into Claire while shopping for veal stock and fennel which he needed to continue cooking up whatever he and Syd were work shopping earlier. Their conversation quickly turns to her career and why she chose to become an ER doctor so she recounts her first encounter with someone needing medical attention at a young age. While other children responded with fear, which is very natural, she does not. And you would expect that her seeming courage was due to empathy. Wanting to be there for this distressed and scared child who probably just had their most traumatic experience yet. But the only thing that keeps her there is curiosity. Fascination with a bone breaking. She doesn't try to comfort this child -who was probably a friend, she just stares at her arm. Carmy asks if she wanted to fix it, make it better, because empathy! No, she wanted to understand it. As a concept on it's own, separate from the whole of someone experiencing suffering.
And yes, the absence of empathy doesn't inherently take away from her being great at her job as a doctor. The most important aspect of a job like that is understanding what the problem is so you can know how to fix it. A lot of times, practical detachment is necessary to do your job well- not just in medicine- but a total switch off from empathy is how monsters are made, no matter how well intentioned. I've seen a lot of crazies defend Chef Fields because he was gunning for excellence, saying it doesn't matter that he emotionally and psychologically destroyed the people who worked for him because he achieved what he wanted- to have the most excellent restaurant in the entire United States of America (as Syd put it). But at what cost?
It's the pursuit of excellence without empathy that is responsible for a lot of cruelty based growth in medicine (see the history of gynaecology, nutrition science, etc). It's what is responsible for things like slavery, imperialism, capitalism etc. Is it impossible to have real growth while being empathetic and holistic?
Crazy segues, stops and solutions
Starting off with the infamous call. This one even the diehard clairecarmys know that this was a little bit off, even though they make excuses for it. One thing I noticed is how she tends to stop or interrupt his natural flow or thought process. At their initial meeting you can sense a discomfort from him and the resistance to take it further (it's not clear why because he naturally is averse to good things happening to him). He tries to come up with the least personal contact option (Venmo) but Claire successfully steers the convo to getting his actual contact info. Then when he gives her the wrong number, she chases down the actual number and calls him anyway.
In that conversation you can see him get backed into a corner. She grew up with him and knows him so has probably observed how he is with confrontation. It's the same reason he was unable to say no to her face about getting his number and instead gave her a fake one (I've done this numerous times). When he is stuttering, trying to find the words to excuse himself from her request to see her, she hits him with the "don't make this weird" speech, that she just needed a favor and this gets him to agree.
Another instance of interrupting his flow of thought is at the frat party when Kyle asks what he was doing. She doesn't let him answer but interrupts him, stating her "purpose" for bringing him. Maybe what he was going to say wasn't going to be all that interesting or great even but maybe he should at least attempt it? Maybe it would have given him clarity about why he agreed to come in the first place even though he had a mountain of work to do.
We also see this repeating in "Bolognese" where he was trying to express his concerns for the relationship. She also interrupts him while he's trying to find the words to express his concerns and she seemingly uses the exactly perfect words "the other shoe" which he had expressed earlier in almost an eerie manner to me, because how does she use the exact words he said in the AA meeting? The exact same expression? He agrees but with a little noticeable hesitation. Because maybe that's not... exactly what he wanted to say? Who knows? She didn't let him say it.
Then she offers a very compelling solution to this conundrum. Nobody's keeping track of shoes. I saw a lot of reactors awwing and ooohing in response to this and I'm thinking, am I crazy or did she just dismiss his very real feelings? His very real fear? This was a very real opportunity to emotionally bond in a very real way. She's currently his romantic partner after all. She could have interrogated where those fears came from, assured him of her intentions at least on a surface level (without spooking him) and also find out his intentions. Instead her response is, nobody thinks about this shit except you, weirdo, now let's talk science, baby! And even on the subject of science (the fire suppression), she's quickly bored because his explanation is obviously too dumbed down to keep her interested (I do love the subversion of mansplaining happening here, though). She speeds up his explanation to get to the conclusion, then lies about it being so interesting when he notices.
The craziest of all, and one that was immediately noticed and talked about a lot in the fandom, was her insane segue to inviting him to the frat party.
"speaking of dead brothers, do you want to go to a party?"
It's impossible to miss that one no matter how enamored you are with Claire. Did Carmy notice? Most definitely. He noticed Cicero's segue from talking about Carmy's dad in Dogs and commented on it, with Cicero calling himself "the segue king", so it's obvious that he notices those things. He doesn't comment this time though, all he does is make a face. But that line was straight up revolting. Unsettling. Disturbing.
We've never heard Carmy bring Mike up in personal conversations like this before. The only time he really talked about Mickey with real vulnerability was in Braciole at the Al-Anon meeting. This was a chance to really get him to open up especially with him saying he loved thinking about him. Now, she obviously doesn't owe him any emotional labor but she did invite him into this. She says they never really talked but then makes sure they never really do, keeping things surface level (Mickey was cool) and bringing up a crazy party when the conversation starts getting deep.
I also want to bring up their conversation about running around like kids. A lot of people assume they were talking about a past memory but I don't think so. This running around and shoplifting is happening recently and it's how they've hung out the last few weeks. Nat's conversation with Syd about Carmy at least hanging out with Claire suggests that. He must have done that quite enough times for her to conclude that if he disappears he must be with Claire. Also, his not even being aware that she sat behind him in freshman year doesn't suggest that they were hanging out a lot then, in my opinion. And we do see them acting out in juvenile ways so it shouldn't be a surprise that they chose very juvenile dating options like roaming shops or malls, running around like kids/ shoplifting. We do see in Beef that probably likes going to the store with his bills lying around. It's also significant that he runs into Claire in a store.
My point is, and just out of curiosity, so what did they really do when they hung out previously that this was considered really talking? Did they just keep mute the whole time and walk around or maybe just talk about the products they were checking out/buying? Maybe Claire was too distracted trying to shoplift obviously so much gum that she couldn't care less if there even was a conversation. Carmy of course, the antisocial king, wouldn't mind silence at all and just enjoy being in company.
Anyway, moving on...
Empathic queen
Of course you know this heading is sarcastic. Through out her outing, Claire displays a subtle but surprising and disturbing lack of empathy. It shows in the many ways she puts her immediate needs over Carmy's feelings. Obviously, as I will continue to state, no one owes anyone any emotional labor. But there's something in the way she moves like she's there because of the trauma not in spite of it. It feels like she's there because she likes looking at broken things.
Her story about her first experience with a broken bone already sets the tone for her behavior. She stares at her friends broken arm as an isolated curiosity not as something that happened to someone. She diverts from the subject of Mickey into a party of all things like it was nothing.
Even her visit to her friend Kelly who got majorly broken up with seemed like just an avenue to get Carmy where she wanted him to be. Because she absolutely could have gone alone and saved the Carmy date for later to be there for her friend and comfort her in a vulnerable moment. Sure she hugs her and says all the right key words but immediately turns her focus away to Carmy, so that Kelly who is still in a vulnerable state does the one thing that's the worst idea- immediately tries to get with another guy. Claire is obviously fine with it and doesn't question it or dissuade her from it because she's waiting on the next move from Carmy.
We can see a contrast from when she gets her own heart "broken". Kelly stays the night with her, cuddling and comforting her even though she had a hook up prospect that night (Ted Fak). This is one reason why she immediately irked me so bad. I've had a best friend like her that I don't speak to anymore. I completely had to cut her of cold because she was such a raging narcissist. She was nice but left me always feeling drained and like a nothing. In spite of her charm and welcoming energy, you slowly realized you were nothing but a tool to her- something to be used.
There's a very strong indication that she is turned on, as it were, by adrenaline. She loves the rush. And her avenue to get that is through risky behavior and observing trauma. She consumes trauma for the sake of it. She enjoys the risk of bad driving as a chaser to resetting broken bones. Notice how in all her dealings, there's no account of the overall outcome, you'd just have to infer it. Did the friend with the broken arm get adequately better? Does she have a wonky arm now? Oh well...🤷 Is Kelly actually doing better from the breakup? Has she had a hundred other boyfriends trying to plug that hole? Who cares?
You must have really... grabbed it!
When she discovers Carmy's scar, a very deep scar that must have been very traumatic to experience, the scene looks very sweet from the outside but has very disturbing undertones. She traces it gently, seemingly lovingly and inquires about it.
Then she laughs!!!!!
This man just described how he got got a very painful injury and she understands what would cause an injury of that magnitude because she is LITERALLY A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL!!! Not only that, she let's us know she actually gets the mechanics of what happened here because "you must have really... grabbed it!". However, what fails to compute in her brain is the WHY.
There are 3 ways that come to mind as to how an injury like this could have happened:
1) Someone forced his hand on that hot pot and held it there to torture him or made him do it. We know he was psychologically tortured by Chef Fields but do we know if he also added physical torture as a way of punishment?
2) He was so out of his mind for some reason that he didn't realize he was holding on to a scorching pot. With the theory that he got his hand burned the day Mickey died, this seems very plausible.
3) He deliberately held on to a scorching pot in an act of self harm.
All of these opinions are very highly alarming but it doesn't ring any alarm bells with Claire. He must have really grabbed it! But why? How come? What happened?
Instead she goes straight to making him describe the pain. Or better still she describes it for him to agree (once again stifling his own self expression). And how does she know about this kind of pain? Did she experience this sometime too? Nope! It's another trauma porn story about a girl she almost killed. She tells him this story distract him also because she could clearly see he was uncomfortable. The way he politely snatched his hand and put it as far away from her as possible was very telling. For contrast the way he described the scar from Mickey's birthday with fondness shows you that this scar was a very sore memory.
It doesn't fail to floor me how she made this story of the girl about herself. It was all feel sorry for me, I almost killed a girl, pity me. Yeah, how about a pity make out session? Oh, Carmy!! 🤦🏾♀️🤢
She fixates very oddly on the patient's beauty which is kind of a crazy thing to focus on when someone is basically probably dying. And of course for all her fixation and her being directly responsible for her almost dying, there seems to be no follow up beyond the point that interested her- being numb from the pain. Did she have any more complications? Did she manage to get better physically, emotionally? Doesn't matter.
Trauma seems to be something she weirdly enjoys to spectate on. It fires her up. She enjoys looking at broken things. Which brings me to the topic of the fridge.
What even really happened here?
We know the general story is she overheard him raging because he thought he was talking to Tina. But why did he think he was talking to Tina? Because somehow Claire got to that fridge and was quiet enough to overhear without alerting him to her presence. Every other person called out to Carmy and checked in on how he was doing. She didn't. She most probably heard him rambling, of course she wouldn't be able to make out what he was saying unless she went real close to the walk in door. Quietly.
Now considering how she walked into that kitchen
you would expect a lot more ruckus, a lot more momentum. She looked like she was about to go break down the door to save her man, perform CPR, a small surgery, talk him through it etc etc etc (is this obvious that I hate Claire?😆). But she bursts into the kitchen, finds it empty, then skulls to the fridge without a sound to listen to Carmy? Now with her history of seeming to enjoy others' trauma, is it possible that when she found the kitchen empty with no one to have to perform concern to she decided to just... spectate... a little? That's what it looks like to me. She wanted to hear Carmy in freak out mode but it goes wrong and she hears things she didn't expect, especially if she thought he'd already listened to her perfectly timed love confession.
Even the whole act with Richie seemed fake to me. The whole shaken look she gave him felt added on, giving him a kiss and enough motivation to go fight for her without actually giving him any real information about what happened. Just gave him enough ammunition to provoke Carmy. Then she embellishes the story to others as if he was directly mean to her.
It's left for us to see how she plays out eventually but my money is on she might be a benign psychopath or sociopath or have some kind of personality disorder. Or at least she's hiding something or putting on an act. Even the way everyone harps on the point that she's nice seems a little suspicious. Like an oversell that is a set up for a coming twist. That scene where she takes of her makeup in Tomorrow made me wonder if it's symbolic as well.
I keep trying to flesh out the reason we, and me in particular, feel such a discomfort with the presence of Claire. And, yes, I have no problem with admitting that I'm biased against her because that is the truth. But I try to make my judgement based on the general flow and pacing of the show and how Claire kind of brings a mostly unwelcome disruption to it.
Now, just to be clear, there's nothing inherently wrong with just being there for someone or being "available". Some people read it that way but I don't. I think her behavior could work and even be useful with certain kinds of people (and who knows whether it's even written to work with Carmy) but it doesn't work with most of us. And it's deliberate in my opinion.
She gives that energy of I'm not going anywhere and not in a good way (to us at least). There has always been this feeling of going somewhere in the show and there's always movement happening. It could be break-neck fast, it could be a slow and easy flow but there's always movement. Carmy, especially, doesn't wait for anything and for someone who accuses other(s) of being impatient, he seems to be the most impatient person. So you would think that someone appearing to stop him in his tracks, as it were, would feel more becoming. But with Claire it feels more stall-y than taking a breather. Now, that's not her fault. I repeat, it's not her fault . She is who she is, but it's Carmy's interaction with that notion that makes it disorienting.
As a not so much of segue, one hilarious bit in their interaction on their initial meeting is this part where she declares, "because you're the bear and I remember you", it gave wanting to take it somewhere big. Somewhere ta-da! She looked like she was going for that aha moment from her body language the way I read it
but his reaction was the embodiment of and nobody moved...
I always burst out laughing anytime I get to this part because I've seen a lot of clairecarmy fans hail this moment as him being so deeply touched and even shook by that reveal of hers but the way his face screams
"the fuck does that even mean?"
After this bit, when she gets no real reaction from him, she awkwardly moves to the next goal- getting his contact info. In a perfect world, it would be more enthusiastic since she just rocked his world but here it just felt like painfully gnawing for somewhere to go. Then he gives her a fake number and we know the rest of the story.
BUT THE END OF THE SCENE... She finally gets what she wanted; his contact, even though she didn't know it was a fake one. Then she just... stays there! This was a chance meeting right? She did come there to get something or for her own needs right? So why does she just relax more in that waiting position like she had nothing else to do? Especially with the finality to Carmy's "okay" delivery which to me looks like a polite dismissal. In an ideal scene after she (or they) reach that point, she'd promise to reach out and go about her business- the business that brought her here in the first place, while he looks on or contemplates or whatever. But she just hangs there after what seems like a conclusion with that "bingo!" smile.
This image of waiting pervades every interaction they have. The way she, even though she's supposed to have a chaotically full life, seems to be developing her whole persona around waiting for Carmy to choose her, to go there with her. And there doesn't feel like where Carmy really wants to go? It's like that person that doesn't actively push you in one direction but does, in the sense that, they quietly wear you down with their presence till you choose anyway and usually what they want.
I've heard a lot of people say "if the roles were reversed" Yes! If the roles were reversed it would stick out as more grating and more sinister. Because if it's a man it should be more grating because it is more sinister. If the roles were reversed we would immediately fear for Carmy's actual life but we know in this case we don't have to in the visceral way we would. Nobody is expecting Claire to wait around a corner for Carmy with a scalpel in her hand or anything like that. And even if she did mention it and Carmy could be said to have taken it at least a little seriously (with the way he initially looked spooked by Sammy's appearance in season 3), no one is expecting her to actually sic the Faks on him. Not that these things can't happen but we don't expect it. Naturally.
But that doesn't make her any less annoying or unnerving. I always react to Claire scenes with a tired sigh or an eye roll or an exasperated laugh. She wears me down. She tires me out. She straight up bores me. No matter how much I try to watch her scenes with understanding, that coy, expectant gaze drives me up a wall. The way she always has different versions of that look, even in Carmy's panicked flashbacks.
For some reason, her whole presentation feel like a parody of something. Like a cheesy highschool romance flick you only see once. Like that cheesy highschool romance flick where the pretty temptress-esque classmate at the party gives a (usually more enthusiastic) naive plain boy sultry inviting looks, while he, enraptured, slowly follows her down a dark path to a corner where he is suddenly mercilessly gutted with a scalpel by a masked assailant and you quickly realize you were actually watching a horror movie.
(I'll circle back to this imagery in a different meta)
I don't think Claire was written to be taken seriously. And if we are watching her from Carmy's point of view, I don't think he ever took her seriously in any capacity. Because the way she seems to have no depth at all even though she's supposed to be this bad ass, big deal, life changing character in Carmy's life. The way she feels kind of like a caricature. It's almost unfair. But there's a reason she's there, and I don't think she was brought in just to scare the sydcarmies. I have a feeling she plays a bigger part in Carmy's story and we'll have to brace for it. It might even be interesting.
Hopefully it's not anything silly like an endgame.
The store fridge scene makes me laugh (as many Claire scenes do unintentionally). From him clearly not recognising her or remembering her name , to her continuing on thirstly anyway regardless and everything else including this:
loooool
Like girl, chill . I’m embarrassed for you. Stawp
I almost refuse to believe at this point that for a show otherwise so well written and acted , this character is supposed to be the genuine romantic endgame/ storyline for the lead character. Just so much awkwardness (and not in an endearing way, just awkward) , no romantic heat or depth. Just not a serious character or compelling romantic thread there.
Maybe this whole time Claire was a very elevated comedic role and much of the viewers (including me) just didn’t get it lol. That HAS to it be cuz otherwise wow (I guess few shows can be considered ‘perfect’, near enough still good and better than most * shrugs *)
Carmy doesn’t wanna be with Claire despite his trauma, but because of it
So, I was working in a meta about the roles of Chef David, Claire and Sydney in Carmy’s character arc. But I think there is something that can be a point of its own, let’s see if I can explain myself correctly.
I have read opinions about how once Carmy work things out with Donna (that recent la times interview had Calo mentioning how they mirrored Claire shots after Donna’s shot) and many people came to that conclusion of how Carmy wanting to be with Claire is sabotaged by his trauma.
And that is a valid take and it could be what it is, but I don’t think it makes sense. No if you let abuse be a realistic player in the equation. Let me explain.
Abuse breaks your perception of yourself and the world, and sometimes you are gonna choose a partner based on that perception. Falling in love /having crushes is something that comes from our subconscious and can be deeply conditioned.
Carmy had a mother that ignored/neglected/abused him while constantly comparing him to his brother. Then he got a head chef that humiliated him, got him so scared that was physically sick and mentally damaged. All of this is self hatred fuel. He once thought he was abused because he wasn’t good enough. (This is what you wanted, to be the best) to the point he subconsciously thinks is okay to continue the cycle of abuse as long as he gets the star. (Btw he didn’t wanted it for Syd as a gift, he wanted it to prove her and his former chef that he could succeed on his own terms, the star was his revenge).
Let’s talk Claire. He had this crush in this girl that was nice to everyone, even him with how “defective” he felt. Then miraculously this girl said that even from then she had a crush on him. She is easy and doesn’t have a problem with any of his very serious mental health issues and immaturity. He feels good enough with Claire not because he is bettering himself from an honest place (like with Sydney at times) but because Claire doesn’t ask for even basic human accountability. This is enabling to someone with a healthy mindset. But for Carmy, it is heaven, and in s3 he thinks he lost that.
I think this is the reason we don’t know shit about Claire (her hobbies, the story of her family, dreams or aspirations) because the only thing that matters to the story (Carmy’s story) is the comfort and amusement she provides. Addicts choose different drugs based on what they want (feel happy, forget, adrenaline) and Claire is the perfect drug to each one of Carmy’s core wounds.
She represents the social approval he didn’t have growing up (Michael and his family wanted them together, she is from the cool group of kids he wanted to hang out with, and Claire even acted as vehicle to Carmy feeling part of that hight school experience in the frat party)
Carmy doesn’t have to guess her humor because she puts an effort (I think) on being amenable all the time. She has all easy similes while Donna has faces of disgust and anger)
She has this perpetual need to be around and take care of broken people (her drunk friends, her patients, the stupid Faks) while never criticizing them or asking them to change (it is cool that Michael set things on fire, she hooks the Faks with her friends, she tells carmy to never apologize)
There is an extra dark side to all of this, because this relationship is not only very superficial but very relying on both of them playing the role of the “broken boyfriend” and the “saint girlfriend” but that is a topic for its own meta.
Now, some examples based on personal experience to bring more context to this point. Trigger warnings:descriptions of physical and philosophical abuse.
My mother was engaged once with a man that was physically abusive, then she left him and married my dad, a man that respected her for her brain and never hurt her with his hands, but was manipulative and psychologically abusive. For years she accepted this “lesser” (in her words) type of abuse and described their relationship as “the best she ever had” because that is the broken perspection she has still. If you are hungry, you learn to eat garbage.
When you hate yourself, you may accept anything that tells you nothing is wrong with you, or tells you how “fix” you. That’s how cults get you, that’s how others abusers get you, surgeries, scams, you are a pigeon that will collaborate in being taken advantage of and you will be thankful for it. This is not victim blaming, abusers know the characteristics of a person that is not gonna fight back, the one that keeps believing they deserve the abuse. That’s why is so difficult to break of this cycles. The show decided to use the toxicity of the industry to show how an abusive person (Carmen) is gonna jump from abuse to abuse of he still believes he deserve it. All 3 berzatto siblings have self hate integrated to different extremes. Mickey hated himself till the point of drug addiction and suicide. Nat does it so she believes is her responsibility that everyone is all right even if it cost her greatly.
I want to bring this last point home:
Our traumas protect us sometimes, if ever questioning the believes that formed after them.
If Carmy ever confronts Donna, he will realize he was never defective, that bettering himself is something he is worth for, and then could choose a partner, based on a true understanding of himself and being able to find real compatibility, not just momentary relive for his pain and a distortion of acceptance. He doesn’t need to keep believing he is broken.
I wanted to link three other posts I read that touched on this subject. I was going to write a part 2 to Emotional Chaos but I think there's a discussion to be had about this.
Credits:
The menu by @unlikelyjapan
Carmy & his trauma with Claire by @vacationship
An Ask by @november-rising
I want to hear from others- but how would you interpret this moment?
Because you're the bear and I remember you.
If we think about the sequence of events-
1. Syd & Carmy getting to know each other, building emotional intimacy at his apartment.
2. You have Natalie on the phone saying ---
But as adults, we never try new things. Because it just becomes so easy to keep doing the same exact thing. Same exact people. Who doesn't want easy? Who doesn't just want to fucking be okay?
3. Emmanuel and Syd are discussing the bear and Syd reassures her father she's in a different place and she trusts Carmy.
4, Then this scene- she remembers the bear and Carmy looks anything but pleased. Because you're the bear and I remember you
There's almost a look like he's been gutted. almost a realization of yes I'm the bear and I create all these bad things. I'm a Berzatto.
Another thing: It's like pulling teeth to get Carmy engaged in this conversation with Claire in the grocery aisle, he's asking questions but he seems, out of it?
My interpretation: He associates himself(bear) with chaos- a being made up of his anger, sadness, fears, love, and joy- it’s his emotions wrapped up and creating a monster. That is if he can’t tame it. Because being the bear- really being it, understanding it like Claire says about the broken arm. It's understanding his emotions which he can only do by looking within.
Season 2 ends with Carmy trapped in that feeling of being the bear- being inside his mind and stuck there. The emotional chaos, the uneven tape. He is scared to experience change. Will he be trapped there forever? Or will he take the time to explore his suppressed emotions for himself, his past, and for Sydney?
Wasted potential Sydcarmy moment in Season 3: when Carmy goes into the freezer after looking at books (I think), he squats and I think he's about to pull out Sydney's notebook (that we haven't seen or heard about since S1), and instead it's his phone, poised to call Claire. 🙄
Another comparison between Sydney and Claire - The Meet Cute
Credits to: @velvetimbre for this post
We all know the infamous speculation about whether Sydney lied about eating at The Beef or not. What is found even more hilarious is the fact that we're speculating that Claire planned her grocery store encounter with Carmy.
This is unhinged. Like, truly mind-boggling.
Because, the biggest hint that we ever got to Sydney lying was in episode 8, aka the season 1 finale, when she reveals to Marcus that she didn't eat out a lot.
Similarly, we find out in episode 10 aka the season 2 finale Claire has always had this huge crush on Carmy. Meaning that there could be a decent enough chance that she planned the encounter.
It's just the way that these fan theories directly have similarities about how deliberate the planning was while also working as juxtapositions as their reasons were different.
Sydney, while yes, could hold attraction to him, was more on the professional side for her career. Carmy is the best chef in the country and she strives to learn a lot from him to improve her skill. I also want to add that while I think she was planning to talk to him about his career, I feel like she isn't necessarily holding onto that question. I feel like she would have been fine with waiting to ask him at a later day. But because he's the one who is asking her more about herself, she decides to return it by asking about what he's doing there.
It's also really sweet that she asks him before to clarify if it's okay, to ask him a question. This might allude to her thinking that it was a touchy subject, so she made sure to ask first if it was okay. And it's so sweet, especially since we know Carmy, we know he's shy. He runs along with people always telling him what to do or say, and even though this is little detail, it's nice that she gives him a choice with this.
Throughout the show, he's more of the person who kind of breaks down her walls a bit and wants to get to know her on a more personal level. And she begins to feel more comfortable with this and is really glad to have him as a maybe friend.
With Claire, (this isn't meant to be taken in the wrong way) her motive came from wanting to pursue a relationship with him. It begins with some small talk that feels natural but then starts to feel a bit rehearsed when she says "Cause you're the bear, and I remember you." And she segways their earlier banter as a way to get his number.
Her actions and body language are purposely flirty. The way that her voice is when she talks to him, she wants to mesmerise him with her actions. Specifically after he gives her his 'number' she looks back up with her wide eyes and slightly says "Kay."
I also remember thinking when I saw their meet-cute and how Claire/Molly was acting out her lines, how it felt like she was reading off a script for an audition tape. (Molly is a talented actress in Shiva Baby, Good Boys, Broken hearts Gallery and Booksmart, so watching this scene felt off). But then it hit me. It was meant to be that way. Claire essentially rehearsed her lines to come off confident and cool when she finally got a chance to see Carmy.
Like, I feel like she would look way more shocked, nervous and stumbling over her words and sentences if that was the first time she saw him.
Even the most confident person feels so jittery over seeing their long-term crush. She seemed like she planned what to say to him before she saw him again. Even if it had not been that specific day that she thought she would see him, she probably has walked around here and there in hopes that she would see him again.
“I said send it back” is very much Sydney’s acknowledgment that Carmen’s head is not in the game. She so rarely questions him - if ever - when it comes to cooking, but that one time she gets touchy about it. That one time, Carmen has left when she needed him, and to go see his friend that’s a girl that he had to be convinced was his girlfriend. That one time, Sydney’s left looking at a dish that she had very little say in the creation of. Because it was the friend that was a girl that helped shape what was originally “their” menu. And that one time she says, he might be okay with settling, but I am not, send it back. Just that once she has no apprehension, she is upset, she wants it done right. So… send it back.
So, I wanted to add to the discussion why Carmy pursued the star so intensely, to the point of inflicting self-punishment and isolation. Why would he focus his whole identity on the evil chef after all those other beautiful experiences he also got to live?
I am going to talk on broad terms because I don’t have any studies in psychology, so you can take it all with a grain of salt; I am talking just from personal experience/instrospection. I am also not saying this applies to all victims of abuse or all types of abuse. I am talking mainly about domestic/psychological abuse.
WHY IT ALL STARTED
On the opening night, a particular set of chemicals created an explosion in Carmy's mind. He saw a man who resembled the chef who tortured him psychologically and abused him. So he goes back and starts a fight with Syd. She calms him down, but he feels lost and needs a pause, so he goes to the freezer but finds himself trapped. Then, the turmoil of flashbacks comes in of Donna and Chef David, while he thinks he failed his team and confirms the belief that he is indeed worthless, no good, and a waste of space. Donna installed this belief in Carmy, and Chef David revived it.
So he blames Claire, a relationship that (regardless of not being particularly deep or healthy) was bringing him happiness, and he decides to commit to the lie that he needs to sacrifice things that make him happy to be good (chef). At this point, Carmy has equated his worth as a human with his ability to produce a certain quality of work as a chef.
THE CYCLE
Maybe the most vile thing about abuse is its cyclical nature. If you have been abused, particularly since childhood, even if you manage to leave the environment where the abuse took place, there is a high chance you will end up in another abusive relationship/situation.
Abuse breaks your perception of self and the world around you; because of that, every relationship you have, or situation you establish will be defined by that broken perception.
Carmy grew up in an abusive household, believing there was something wrong with him that made his mother reject him and prefer his older brother. From what we can gather, none of Carmy's interests and personality traits were appreciated or encouraged in that house (besides cooking), so he was a child "terrified of speaking." He didn't have friends who could help him understand or accept himself; he missed that in very formative years. Michael (the brother he compared himself to) ended up being the real parental figure in his life (Michael divides himself between teasing him and encouraging him).
Carmy learns to love cooking because of his connection with Michael. Then Michael makes him feel rejected by casting him out. Carmy goes abroad and has really amazing experiences that allow him to know and accept himself. He gets to feel like a child again, finding and cultivating the things that he loves.
Then he finds a chef boss who is also abusive. Donna comes to life in the face of Chef David, and Carmy (who has become almost the best at this point and could have just left this place) accepts the abuse because he is afraid that both Donna and David are right, that there is something fundamentally wrong with him no matter how hard he tries.
So he goes into this season in freeze response, screaming at others because he can hear the evil chef in his head telling him how much of a waste of space he is; he needs to fight it, so he screams at everyone to have the same standard he has to obey or get killed. He is acting entirely out of fear that they are going to get him killed because they are “not perfect” or “too slow.” Because he can still feel the threat of the ghost of Chef David saying horrible things to him as he cooks. This is about self-preservation.
Also, isolation is a form of self-punishment, and he believes he needs to resolve this on his own.
THE CLAIRE PART-SELF PUNISHMENT
He tells himself that he cannot be with Claire because that is who he is and that he doesn't deserve such a good thing if it endangers the only thing that brings him value, cooking. He doesn't deserve this love that, for the first time, doesn't seem to require a big amount of sacrifice on his part. He spent most of the season reminiscent of that affection. He said she brought her peace, but I think he just meant she didn't feel worthless for once. It looks like not having girlfriends or friends (lack of meaningful connections that accept him for who he is) is a big source of insecurity for him.
The relationship was empty and superficial but was the best he had ever felt; Claire made him feel like there was nothing wrong with him, (to the point of being an enabler, yes), but it was still better for him than feeling rejected most of his life.
His most significant relationships (Mickey and Donna and sometimes Nat and Richie) were based on a push-and-pull mechanic that created an emotional distance, and he has spent most of his life trying to earn his mother's love, while he felt he didn't have to make an effort to earn Claire's love, even the most basic emotional responsibility (never apologize). The show even showed you that the relationship between Claire and Carmel would have happened if she hadn't done most of the work, emotional or otherwise.
Case in point: Sydney, a person with whom he has a lot in common, an unspoken telepathy, and a bond that can get him out of panic attacks (his previous unhealthy beliefs), is the person with whom he has the most trouble establishing a relationship because of the plot (based on his mental health), even after three seasons.
and got curious about the film poster in the background. I've never seen the movie before but imdb has a great synopsis on it.
Rounders (1998):
John Dahl directed this exploration of New York private clubs devoted to high-stakes poker, with first-person narration from the film's central figure, law student Mike McDermott (Matt Damon), who loses his entire savings to Russian club owner Teddy KGB (John Malkovich). Mike then turns away from cards, devoting his attentions to his law studies and his live-in girlfriend Jo (Gretchen Mol), who's concerned when Mike's former gambling buddy Worm (Edward Norton) is released from prison. She has good reason to worry, since it takes Worm only a matter of minutes to draw Mike back into poker action. When she learns Mike has returned to the poker clubs, she moves out, and Mike begins to lose interest in his studies. Worm has a prison debt, and the threatening Grama (Michael Rispoli) wants the money. Mike not only indulges the irresponsible Worm, he gets involved in Worm's debts. When Grama demands $15,000 on a five-day deadline, the two buddies go into high gear with a non-stop, no-sleep gambling binge that spirals downward toward an ultimate confrontation with Teddy KGB.
Now Carmy isn't dealing with poker cards or prison debts, but the story of a young man's attentions being diverted from his girlfriend and his other responsibilities rings too close to his situation in season 2.
Claire's arrival is akin to the arrival of the Worm character, being someone whose purpose is to divert the main character's attention away from his work. No surprise, but Sydney's character is akin to the girlfriend in this situation, the one who suffers from the loss of the main character and has to deal with his lack of attention to their shared business endeavor.
Also thinking about this in the context of the scene: Richie and Carmy are about to have a conversation about purpose, where Richie feels as though he has none and believes Carmy and the rest of the crew has one, which would then lead them to drop his ass. Carmy assures Richie that he won't drop him but also admits that being in the restaurant business is not fun for him (he makes the distinction that he does love it, just that it's not fun). That gets Carmy thinking about the lack of fun in his life, and culminates in his new internal goal of being able to provide amusement to himself in order to be able to provide it to others. What I've gathered from the first season is Carmy likes attacking problems the moment they are diagnosed and believes the quicker he works on them, the quicker they can be resolved (The Brigade - using terminology from the Al-anon meeting, "changing the chemistry", to solve the kitchen's chaos and keep his side of the street clean). Same can be said for how he tries to force amusement into his life.
Carmy is quick to accept any quick way to amusement, which is provided by the sudden arrival of a former crush. When the moment arises where he is given a chance to leave behind his responsibilities and pursue what he believes is amusement, he jumps at the opportunity, which leaves Sydney by herself in the process of constructing their menu and the restaurant.
Of course there are many more layers to this whole story (Carmy's personal life, his attachment to the past, his past traumas, his lack of relationship experience, his yearning for personal betterment, his budding feelings for his business partner, and his hesitancy to address of the emotional pain he's still holding on to after the losing Mikey). I just wanted to expand on how Rounders (1998) fits into the grand scheme of season 2 Carmy.
-co-created a kitchen space that has a resemblance (in design and the CDC facing away from the kitchen crew) to the kitchen where NYC Chef terrorized him
-put seven fishes on the gd menu and cannolis too (per Claire's completely uninformed, untrained, and dangerous/unethical attempts at practicing therapy without a license and encouraging someone to include multiple trauma triggers in their daily life without seeking actual mental health support)
And Nat
-invited Donna
His hallucinations and breakdown in that walk-in were truly a team effort! lol
The locker scene kills me because Carmy clearly wanted Syd to hangout with him but he hasn’t reached a point where he can ask for things or be assertive without being prodded into it or without a competition behind it. He was so awkwardly hopeful that she would take the initiative and looked so crushed when she didn’t. (Not because she didn’t want to but Syd has her own hangups we need to discuss).
In contrast, he didn’t want to hangout with Claire. He gave her a wrong number, stuttered uncomfortably all over himself when she called… and only when she invoked his family and their familial ties did he relent and give up on what he wanted (hanging out with Syd/creating a menu for The Bear). I think that’s going to be a really common theme for Carmy as he starts trying to heal.
Claire/dysfunctional family/The Beef/having choices made for him = traumatic past
Syd/found family/The Bear/making his own choices = healed future
Thanks: @currymanganese for suggesting that I make a post about this.
Claire had so much confidence towards the fact that she stole gum from Walgreens and Carmy’s reaction says it all about how bothered he was by it.
Not only because he doesn’t like unethical practices, but also because HE IS A BUSINESS OWNER. He was labouring through working at the beef and then designing the bear. Imagine how degrading it would be for him if someone stole from his business, he knows how it feels.
And I know, Claire did that stuff when she was a teenager. But the way she had no empathy and treated it like a numerous anecdote was kind of disrespectful.
Doing a rewatch. Did we already discuss how Claire forcing Carmy to say "I want you to have my number" and "okay, say that one more time" equivelant to
Donna: Just say the words, Carm
Mikey: Just say the fucking words
Carmy: I love you.
Uncomfortable.
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