“AO3 bookmarks are a reader’s space and a place for them to be honest about the fics they read, which is why authors can’t respond to them and don’t get notified when someone creates a bookmark. If authors don’t want to see a negative bookmark that someone has created of their fic, they shouldn’t click into the bookmarks section.” do you agree with this
Neither writer nor reader, and I agree with this statement
Neither writer nor reader, and I disagree with this statement
Neither writer nor reader, and I feel it’s complicated
I read but don’t write, and I agree with this statement
I read but don’t write, and I disagree with this statement
I read but don’t write, and I feel it’s complicated
I both read and write, and I agree with this statement
I both read and write, and I disagree with this statement
I both read and write, and I feel it’s complicated
Not in fandom/don’t use AO3/bald/results
Context: this is a very common viewpoint on the ao3 subreddit which I very recently stumbled upon, but most people i’m friends with in danmei fandom (twt, discord etc) don’t agree and think negative bookmarks are rude.
Here's the thing: objectively, bookmarks are designed for readers' personal notes AND they are designed to be seen. That's why there are separate tickboxes for "Private Bookmark" and "Rec" when you create one.
The FAQ describes their purpose as:
An AO3 bookmark is a record of a work you want to remember, find more easily, or record a note about. Bookmarks created on the Archive can also serve as recommendations to other users.
and says that:
You can also add your own personal notes or tags for the work. The notes can be anything, such as brief reviews or reminders to yourself. Tags can be used to make your bookmarks easier to sort and filter.
So like. Yes. Bookmarks are for readers' notes, and they need not be exclusively recommendations. Authors should be aware that bookmark notes may contain unfiltered thoughts or negative commentary that readers did not intend for you to read.
(Unfortunately for everyone, as I found out on twitter one time, a shocking percentage of ao3 users do not realize their bookmarks are visible by default, much less easily accessible to the author.)
Now, does this mean I think readers should use the bookmark function to flame works they didn't like for all and sundry to see? No, this isn't fucking Yelp. I've never stumbled across someone with a bunch of negative bookmarks and thought, "whew, glad they warned me about all these fics!" but I've frequently thought, "wow this person sure spends a lot of energy on stuff they dislike."
It is one click to make a bookmark private, and that function ALSO exists for a reason.
@/gaypiratebrainrot has a great post on here that describes ao3 interactions as:
comparable to doing a live reading in an intimate little bookstore, like kudos are everybody who stayed til the end and applauded, comments are everybody who waited to come up to talk to you afterwards, and bookmark comments are the little snatches of conversation you overhear outside
I think that's a good way to think about it from all sides — bookmark comments aren't for the author, no, but there's a good chance they'll be overheard. And if you're out front of the store trashing the writing, whoever does hear you might think you're kind of a jerk.
I think a thing to consider is that, like, yes, while bookmarks are something that are there for the reader to use, they're still attached to the fic. Like above said, if a comment is going up to the cook and starting a conversation after liking something they made at the potluck, leaving a note in the bookmarks is talking about the food with someone else only a few feet from the table. Like yes you might be talking to another person, but the cook is right there and can probably hear you, so complaining about the food is sort of jerk behavior.
And yeah, some people point out that authors can just choose not to look at bookmarks if they don't want to see mean comments but honestly? They're attached to the fic. Anything you write that is attached directly to the work is something the author is going to be able to easily stumble upon, and many authors do intentionally check bookmark comments because 99% of the time people who leave notes there are leaving really lovely comments that the author does want to see. And yeah okay, there are reasons to want to write negative bookmarks (a common one mentioned is wanting to keep track of a work so you don't accidentally read it again) but that argument is sort of undermined by the fact private bookmark exists. By all means say what you need to and track the fic however works for you, but that can be done privately in a way that avoids the author having to see rude and mean things
There's also some debate as to what counts as negative, which is also fair. Like if you're just saying "oof, this fic is very heavy, lots of blood and gore. a bit intense" that isn't necessarily a statement with negative weight. You're just observing something. That's neutral and as an author I wouldn't be bothered. But if you leave a comment saying "1/5, didn't like the characters, author was mid" then that's something else. It's rude. That shit could be in a private bookmark. Like, you see the difference right?
And like yeah, readers don't owe authors excessive positivity, but it's basic common courtesy that if you don't have something nice to say, then move on without saying anything. Unless an author says they're open to constructive criticism (which you won't know unless they explicitly say or unless you ask directly) then often unwanted criticism is just dickhead behavior. Like, yeah okay maybe you're trying to be helpful, but often you end up complaining about things the author didn't need an opinion about. Maybe the problem you had with the characterisation was an intentional choice by them. Maybe the thing that icked you out was part of the genre. Maybe they were writing a silly thing for fun and didn't want to take it that seriously and they don't give a shit that there's plot holes or wild tone shift. Maybe that was on purpose. Unless you know the author, you don't know.
And also, even if the fic does suck, so what?
Like. People are writing fic for free. They don't owe you the quality of a published novel. Even if the work is total garbage, what does it matter? As long as the author had fun and readers are having the chance to enjoy it then it's all fine. You don't know how long they've been writing, or how much time they had to work on this project, or whether this is their first language, etc, etc. Like, there is no standard of quality. A 13 year olds first wildly ooc fic full of typos is just as deserving of respect and courtesy as any other work. Leaving a bookmark detailing all the ways the fic sucked isn't going to make their day better if they stumble across it
So like sure, you don't owe the author intense, excessive positivity, but I also don't think it's too much to ask that people not leave overtly mean and negative things in notes or comments directly attached to the work. Private your bookmark and say whatever you like, or complain about it in a place that isn't attached to the work, such as on Tumblr, twitter, or discord. A place that isn't literally two feet from where the author is standing, right within earshot. The fact that it's so easy to make bookmarks private makes most other arguments feel hollow - you can argue all day about whether bookmarks count as public or private, but considering there are private bookmarks, then non-private ones are public.
You can say whatever you like, but if you want to say negative stuff you have the choice to say it out of earshot, and if you don't then man don't whine if people think you're rude
authors also have no power to curate bookmarks like they can comments, so bookmarks are essentially Comments Section 2.0 (Harassment Edition) if a bad-faith actor so chooses. you can say the most vile shit and have that be permanently attached to the fic without the author's consent. anyone else think that's not a good thing?