softly (don't)

show me where i asked (venting sideblog)

[the-reylo-void]

So in the last few weeks we’ve had multiple antis say they don’t care about abuse survivors who ship Reylo, mock those who ship to cope, harass and degrade POC for shipping Reylo (extra points for white antis doing this), tell multiple shippers to kill themselves, and cross-tag endless hateful posts.

I have yet to see a single anti call out any of this behavior. Not one. Because there’s the implicit belief that we deserve it.

I will not forget these last few weeks the next time an anti complains about shippers not calling out our own for problematic behavior.

We do. They don’t.

[thefeelofavideogame]

of the many shitty things tumblr does, probably the worst is the way people on tumblr devalue language

originally it didn’t matter because it was just made-up terms like fedora and dudebro but the new word people are throwing around is ‘pedophile’ and it’s like

you stupid assholes, you fucking blithering morons, that’s an important word, you fucks. We need that word. It is a crucial word to immediately and forcefully communicate that someone is a danger to children.

but because it’s such a harsh, powerful word idiots on tumblr took to throwing it at people for having Bad Cartoon Opinions or just personal distaste and as a result it’s now devalued and that’s the fucking worst.

 I can’t believe any accusation of pedophilia anymore cause there’s no way to know if whatever dipshit slinging it around actually means ‘pedophile’ or means ‘THIS PERSON DISAGREES WITH ME ABOUT LAPIDOT REEEEEEE’

[bb8hatesshiphate]

Breaking news: Only gay people are allowed to listen to and identify with the music of Mika. No filthy heterosexuals allowed. Applying Mika to a M/F couple is literally the equivalent to spitting on a gay man in the street. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

[huxblush]

How about instead of spending $25 on a poorly designed, overpriced t-shirt that says “Reylo is abusive” Antis donate that money to a charity that helps victims of abuse, or do literally anything else with that money that would actually prevent abuse or help abuse survivors?

[the-reylo-void]

…this isn’t a thing, right? This is just a hilarious hypothetical, right? Antis aren’t actually profiting financially from the insulting false equivalence that a fictional ship is the same if not worse than the real-life abuse millions of people have suffered, myself included, right?

OH MAN. You got me. That’s hilarious. I’d have a good, long laugh about it if I didn’t have to help my mother – her spine is twisted from all the beatings my father gave her and she can barely walk some days. Like today. But I’ll be sure to tell her that people on the Internet are selling T-shirts implying that her experiences are exactly the same as people writing stories about the desert girl and that emo guy she didn’t like in TFA kissing! SO HILARIOUS. She’ll love it. If she’s conscious through the pain meds.

You know, I was going to buy a new foundation today but I think I’m giving the money to my local DV shelter instead. It’s not nearly as clever as selling shirts, but OH WELL.

[huxblush]

I honestly wish it was a hypothetical but

[huxblush]

How about instead of spending $25 on a poorly designed, overpriced t-shirt that says “Reylo is abusive” Antis donate that money to a charity that helps victims of abuse, or do literally anything else with that money that would actually prevent abuse or help abuse survivors?

[huxblush]

thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy in the kylux fandom. i ship kylux, but i don't participate because i also ship reylo and i've received hatred from other kyluxers for that. neither ship is pure IMO but kylux gets cut a lot of slack reylo doesn't when it comes to dark and non-con elements. this seems sexist to me, like women are supposed to be shielded from these things (so you can't ship rey w kylo) but you can ship hux with kylo because men don't need to be protected from these things.

I find it to be completely unfair that you feel you can’t participate in something you enjoy out of fear of being victimised for shipping something. I’m genuinely sorry that this has been your fandom experience. I know there are a lot of Kylux blogs out there who very much disagree with the an/ti rhetoric, so if you wanted to reach out to some people then the notes of this post I made might be useful as a place to start? 

I find that a large number of aggressively an/ti Reylo Kylux shippers have often lost sight of the fact that a lot of the an/ti arguments used to demonise Reylo can be turned around to apply to Kylux just as easily. Kylux shippers will scoff and brush off the idea that we’re all enormously racist just for shipping white characters, but in the next breath they will turn around and accuse Reylo shippers of the exact same things. It’s hypocritical in the extreme. 

The level of sexism and internalised misogyny in the an/ti community is worrying. The reductionism of Rey’s character to purely her negative experiences in relation to Kylo is particularly worrying. Ant/is absolutely refuse to let Rey have any form of identity outside the fact that she is a victim of Kylo, completely ignoring everything else about her character in order to push their rhetoric. When abuse survivors, especially those who ship to cope with their own experiences, see this, they’re essentially being told that the only thing that matters about someone is their negative experiences. This has the capacity to be enormously damaging. 

Abuse in same sex relationships and male victims of abuse are enormous issues that are generally glossed over or ignored in society, and yet despite this Kylux shippers get a free pass whilst Reylo shippers are vilified because Rey is seen as needing “protection” because she is a woman (despite the fact that she kicked his whiny ass). An/ti blogs are dead set on this idea of fiction and fandom influencing reality, so surely this glossing over of the issue in fandom will lead to an increase in abuse in same sex relationships in real life? Isn’t that how this works by their logic? 

Rey doesn’t matter to the an/tis. The only reason they care about her is so they can use as her as a prop to demonise other people, or use her to score social justice points by shipping her with someone less “problematic”. This kind of reduction of a complex female character to a prop reeks of misogyny. On top of this, the an/ti tags are constantly full of horrifically sexist posts such as this: 

Overall, this idea that women need to be “protected” from the media they consume is enormously patronising. Censorship is censorship. People shipping Rey and Kylo isn’t going to lead to a massive increase in abuse, but preventing people from ever exploring the topic in a safe way, or denying survivors their safe spaces and coping mechanisms just might. 

[keithsweatshop]

[bb8hatesshiphate]

A very large number of kylux shippers are members of the queer community themselves. A lot of people ship kylux because they themselves are members of the queer community and find it easier to identify with villain characters as these characters are often the ones who are queer coded and are transcendent of “socially acceptable” norms.

On top of this a lot of kylux shippers are mentally ill, and once again it is often the “villain” characters who are coded as being mentally ill and neurodivergent etc, (especially kylo ren). Saying that all kylux shippers are “homofetishists” is dismissive and incredibly offensive. I’m fairly certain that the poc kylux shippers would also have a problem with you deciding that they’re all racist.

You’re allowed to not like a ship and have problems with the problematic aspects (which do exist) but this post is absolutely inappropriate on every level. You do not get to speak over the voices of the queer and mentally ill people and poc who find joy and escapism and comfort in shipping kylux. 

[beetlcat42-deactivated20221106]

Thank you ;~; I always get upset when people give me shit for shipping kylux and I’m just. I’m a gay boy shipping gay boys.

[asdfghjkylo]

@walkinginthewinds    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[walkinginthewinds]

@bb8hatesshiphate as a queer woman who is not neuro typical and has spent the majority of my life dealing with my mental health issues i find it very demeaning and rude that you are talking down to me regarding this issue. i’m gonna try and not to be rude in this post but we’ll see

my conclusion that “all” kylux shippers are racist and homofetishizing deals with the fact that in fandom culture on tumblr (particularly, but not exclusively white, cis, straight people) flock to non-canon ships consisting of white men. and a lot of these non canon ships have rabid followers that are threatened by any other character that comes along that is going to “compete” with that ship, often at the expense of female characters, (eg. stucky shippers vs. sharon, sherlock/watson shippers vs. mary, to name a couple). that’s obviously not the case in this situation but that’s why i’m suspicious of any poplar non-canon white m/m ship, so that’s my problem 

but regarding that, a lot of the kylo/hux shippers that i’ve seen have zero regard, or a dislike of stormpilot. which rubs me the wrong way because john boyega is a black man and oscar isaac is a latinx man, and their characters have more onscreen evidence toward an eventual canon relationship than kylux in which the actors are both white. though, i haven’t seen kylux shippers who also ship stormpilot i don’t doubt they exist. 

i’ve been bitter toward fandom in general for a long time because of racism and sexism that is so prevalent so i generalize. when i say “all” of course i don’t mean all, but fandoms like to take generalizations as a direct attack for reasons due to being called out on their wrongs or their insecurities or whatever.

i’m not trying to stop anybody from shipping it, i’m just stating what i feel and i don’t really care if someone think differently (which i’m sure you feel the same way)

so other than that, i appreciate that you didn’t tag me in this, 

and @asdfghjkylo i don’t understand why you tagged me in this when the op did not. i would’ve never seen this post without you tagging me and i don’t think that the op wanted to instigate drama, they just wanted to vent, so like, why.

[bb8hatesshiphate]

Yeah not cool that they tagged you. Im not trying to start anything I'm just stating a differing opinion, I'm also a queer woman with mental health issues so I'm not particularly trying to talk down to you? Idk man whatever.

[bb8hatesshiphate]

A very large number of kylux shippers are members of the queer community themselves. A lot of people ship kylux because they themselves are members of the queer community and find it easier to identify with villain characters as these characters are often the ones who are queer coded and are transcendent of “socially acceptable” norms.

On top of this a lot of kylux shippers are mentally ill, and once again it is often the “villain” characters who are coded as being mentally ill and neurodivergent etc, (especially kylo ren). Saying that all kylux shippers are “homofetishists” is dismissive and incredibly offensive. I’m fairly certain that the poc kylux shippers would also have a problem with you deciding that they’re all racist.

You’re allowed to not like a ship and have problems with the problematic aspects (which do exist) but this post is absolutely inappropriate on every level. You do not get to speak over the voices of the queer and mentally ill people and poc who find joy and escapism and comfort in shipping kylux. 

[beetlcat42-deactivated20221106]

Thank you ;~; I always get upset when people give me shit for shipping kylux and I’m just. I’m a gay boy shipping gay boys.

[otp-kylux]

The only anti Kylux argument that sort of makes a valid point is the fact that the aus for the ship are problematic and promote violence. But other than that… not really. 

Plus this fandom has so many trans, queer/gay, poc (lol me!), and mentally ill people! It’s a really diverse group of people. lol.

[certified-certifiable]

literally just filter the tag out what the hell it’s easier on ao3 than it is on tumblr 

edit: why would you asterisk it out in your own post so that now assuming you’re followed by like-minded people you’re making them think about the thing you hate too? what the fuck is with that? now they can’t blacklist? so attention-seeking about your own content preferences matter but not even the content preferences of people on your side who aren’t you do? jesus christ

[bb8hatesshiphate]

I'm fairly certain the asterisk is so that it doesn't show up in the kylux tag, but it's a wasted effort if they then use the "anti kylux" tag because tumblr just registers "kylux" and it still shows up.

[ras-alcool-deactivated20160805]

Yall what the fuck. Yall trying to defined your fucking creepy asses and saying it’s OK to ship incest and pedophilia and abusive weird shit??? And get fucking butt hurt when you’re called out on it and then attack someone and call them STUPID??? Yall need fucking therapy

[reysistantis]

This post has too many yikes elements to address so I have moved to a points system. Anti™ points awarded for: crosstagging, ableism, name calling, incest argument (no proof, all speculation), pedophilla (neither character is a minor), “abusive weird shit”. I really don’t think shippers are the butthurt ones here, my dude.

[bb8hatesshiphate]

A very large number of kylux shippers are members of the queer community themselves. A lot of people ship kylux because they themselves are members of the queer community and find it easier to identify with villain characters as these characters are often the ones who are queer coded and are transcendent of “socially acceptable” norms.

On top of this a lot of kylux shippers are mentally ill, and once again it is often the “villain” characters who are coded as being mentally ill and neurodivergent etc, (especially kylo ren). Saying that all kylux shippers are “homofetishists” is dismissive and incredibly offensive. I’m fairly certain that the poc kylux shippers would also have a problem with you deciding that they’re all racist.

You’re allowed to not like a ship and have problems with the problematic aspects (which do exist) but this post is absolutely inappropriate on every level. You do not get to speak over the voices of the queer and mentally ill people and poc who find joy and escapism and comfort in shipping kylux. 

[agirlwithachakram]

i can’t believe i haven’t seen a comic of a finnrey gem and a stormpilot gem fusing to become jedistormpilot to defeat the reylos and kyluxes

[bb8hatesshiphate]

I can’t believe you spent time typing out this ridiculous post to be perfectly honest. 

[endcity-remade]

I kinda need someone to talk to about why kyl*x is racist but I also can’t order my thoughts properly

[bb8hatesshiphate]

Your bio says you’re only 14 so I’m gonna give you a little leeway here but. Describing kylux as being “really fucking racist” is completely unfounded and unfair. Also, censoring the ship name in the post is well and good but if you then use the anti tag it shows up in the kylux tag anyway because this website is hell. Yes they’re white guys, yes it’s a popular ship. But approximately 0% of shippers are sidelining other characters in the way they ship kylux. Almost all kylux shippers also ship finnrey and stormpilot. A ship existing in which the characters are white is not a litmus test for racism. Try not to make broad generalisations when you have absolutely no evidence for it. That’s not how productive and helpful discourse operates.

[endcity-remade]

k cool

[bb8hatesshiphate]

I made a whole blog about this because I don’t want to annoy people on my main blog. If you message me off anon I will happily tell you it so we can discuss it over there. The nazi thing is completely invalid as an argument. Hux is a fictional character who belongs to a fictional military organisation. He isn’t a literal nazi. There are aesthetic parallels but that’s it. The only thing that makes someone a nazi is being a nazi. Which is impossible for a fictional character to be. 

[bb8hatesshiphate]

I’m laughing so hard at this incredible irony that I can’t breathe.

ok buddy. allow me to introduce the greatest hits of the anti community.

Featuring:

joking about taking children away from their families and making false child abuse accusations

horrifying misogyny 

accusing a gay person of being a nazi sympathiser 

making vile bullying comments about the appearance of an innocent actor purely because he portrays a character you dislike in a movie

making rape jokes

“kinkshaming” a severely mentally ill au character

refusing to untag an abusive post from the reylo tag even after being told they had triggered several abuse survivors

and finally, continuing to harass someone after they have been blocked by them and mocking them for attempting to feel safe 

[reysistantis]

Today’s reminder is that everyone’s ship is cool and valid and you all deserve to have a wonderful day.

[gautierssj]

[antiantis-saltmine-deactivated2]

Antis

[sinakin]

hi reylo shippers. i normally don’t confront people because i’m chill 99% of the time but i’d like to have a talk. i do not hate reylo because it’s two people of opposite genders, i do not hate reylo because it’s not an interracial relationship and i do not hate reylo because it’s not a same sex relationship. i dislike reylo because it’s horrible and abusive. 

tell me reylo shippers, what is it about kidnapping someone and then forcefully invading their mind to find something that will help you destroy what they stand for that you guys find so romantic? maybe none of you understand what consent it. 

first of all, he bloody kidnapped her. that’s just not something you do when you want to get a girl. that’s scary and illegal, but oh he’s a hot white guy so it’s fine :)))

second, id like to ask, would you like it if someone went through all of your personal belongings without your consent? thinking they could take whatever they want? no probably not. what kylo did to rey was an emotionally traumatizing thing. invading her thoughts by force (pun fully intended) and basically torturing her. how is that romantic in the slightest. it’s violating and evil.

and finally he was searching for information in rey’s head to use it against her and the resistance, which was something that she believes in. if someone were to destroy what i believed in i don’t think id want to be in a relationship with them. 

oh and let’s not forget to mention that big fight scene at the end where they try and kill each other! wOw ThAt’S tHe MoSt RoMaNtIc PaRt !!!!

[reysistantis]

Hi, I’m not really in the mood to debate with you about the inaccuracies/subjectivity of this post because I feel like it would be a waste of time but can you please untag this from Reylo? You have  A LOT of unnecessary tags so it seems like you’re just looking for attention.

You’re well within your right to dislike something but it’s incredibly rude and can even been harmful to tag your hate and post in so many irrelevant tags.

[sinakin]

well i’m tagging so many times so people will get it noticed and stop shipping abuse so sorry. and i will not untag it from reylo because it’s aimed at reylo shippers. im asking a question

[huxblush]

Don’t crosstag please, especially with this kind of triggering and emotionally manipulative post. It makes you a hypocrite. 

Approximately 0% of shippers care about your unnecessary opinion. Approximately 0% of people trying to mind their own business in the kylux/stormpilot/finnrey tag want to see your opinions in their tag when they are neither relevant or necessary. 

You’re welcome to have your subjective opinion but forcing it down people’s throats helps absolutely nobody and breeds hostility in the fandom. A large number of reylo shippers use it to cope with their own abuse experiences and you forcing them to see this post by putting it in their tag is harmful, reckless, and selfish and I have no patience for it. 

[bb8hatesshiphate]

If you cross tag you lose any moral high ground you may have had. respect costs nothing.