I'm no longer the target audience and I get that these are kids books but I'm still going to vent okay😂
I didn't feel like the threat of the gorgon was well established. I mean yeah the preserve is falling to ruin but it just didn't feel like it mattered. Like the stakes didn't feel very high.
I get that there is a subtle theme about growing up and maturing but I find it a strange choice for Newel and Doren to take center stage on such a serious mission.
Why is there a new cult? It seems like an oddly specific mission to want to release gorgons for the heck of it but I guess that was the plot of the original series to open Zzyzx. I also wish Brandon would come up with better names for his organizations.
If he is going to create a new series about a new secret cult and whatnot could they be more threatening or not just reusing the original plot? Also don't know why it had to be so vague. I guess I want more of an explanation or description of what they do. Idk why they couldn't bring back the old main characters. I guess like a gorgon might seem like a walk in the park for them after everything they've done. I guess it may also feel like their stories are resolved after all that they've accomplished. But if the cult is going to be a serious threat then is it wrong to make the main characters older teenagers or young adults? I mean the satyrs are hundreds of years old anyway so it shouldn't be too much of a stretch. I just don't think Newel and Doren make good main characters.
I'm starting to see a serious problem with how okay they are sending kids into danger which is probably just me getting older but I was thinking the entire time "they better not send them kids into Murkwater" but partly because I don't like Knox and it was sad to see the same old irritating jokes from Knox.
There were some interesting moments and creatures like the hydra, but it felt like a lot of fluff.
I didn't like how the plot was resolved. I don't know just not as satisfying I guess if you think about how gotsp's climax... I guess that's it there wasn't really a climax.
It's been a while since I've read some of the books so I can't recall who Maddox was tbh and I vaguely remember the SInging Sisters but I don't remember what they wanted from Seth later on.
I know I sound like such a hater but I know I couldn't do any better of a job and I'm probably just stuck on the original series. Dragonwatch had some amazing moments since we got to go into a whole world of dragons as well as giants and all of that was really cool but it didn't feel like this book had much of anything really new. I think there's potential from where dragonwatch left off with Vanessa being blinded, I feel like there should be some artifact to cure that I'm not happy about her fate tbh. I think there could be so more to the story of blixes and I've made a post about a whole idea of such an adventure. So I'm not happy that Warren and Vanessa got entirely left out of this story not even a name drop. It occurred to me he could write about Patton's adventures but those are honestly probably better left a mystery.
in gotsp, stan is explaining the natures of magical beings to the kids. does warren just hate philisophical topics or is he just bothered by stan’s view on this particular one? i wonder what he is referring to when he talks about light and dark creatures going against their natures. i wondered if vanessa is influencing his beliefs. what if he says that because he holds vanessa accountable for her actions and wont allow her dark nature to be used as an excuse?
So why exactly is Grandpa Sorenson the caretaker of Fablehaven rather than Grandma if the stewardship runs through the Burgess line? Did she not want the position or something? The obvious solution is of course that it’s some kind of patriarchy thing, but there’s also that line concerning Lost Mesa:
“Lost Mesa is different than some preserves in that it has always been managed by a female caretaker.” (Fablehaven: Grip of the Shadow Plague, Chapter 7: Lost Mesa)
Some not most, which suggests that female caretakers are just as common, or perhaps even more so, than male ones. So again, why Grandpa Sorenson? Is Fablehaven a preserve that only has male caretakers for some reason? If so, did Ruth just not have any male siblings that could take the role? Or is it some other reason (a.k.a Mull didn’t think about it)?
Ages ago you made a post discussing whether Warren was irresponsible and I had disagreed. You had said you were busy, but you'd respond to my response later, but you never did, which I totally get! Life is crazy, I'm terrible at responding to things myself, so I'm not salty or anything at all! But I am still curious what your thoughts are. Are you up for having that discussion? No pressure whatsoever, to be clear, I realize this is old. I'd be happy to try to find the original post if you'd like
[the 2 year old post in question, for context]
You're right! I had the post in drafts, but by the time I had the time to answer it, I thought it would be too late to post. I'm happy to talk about it now. Keep in mind that I love Warren as a character, at least in the original series (I feel Dragonwatch wasn't true to a lot of original characterisations). For the sake of fairness, I'll only be talking about the original series. Using Dragonwatch to defend my position would be low-hanging fruit.
✧ We hear from Ruth Sorenson about how Warren goes behind Stan's back to give Newel and Doren a TV and batteries for it. They tell Seth he also got them high-quality tennis equipment, which must've been a trade.
"Graphite, light and strong", Newel said. "Warren got us our equipment. Back before he went all Boo Radley on us."
They also try to get Seth to trade for wine, which they sell as something impossible for him to get normally because of his age. Maybe they got used to doing this with Warren when he was young. Either way, is trading with the satyrs for anything (especially gold, given the means they use to get it) responsible?
✧ The reason Warren became albino in the first place was because he was carrying out a covert mission for the Knights of the Dawn. This is why he told nobody where he was going when he ventured into the valley of the four hills. He was supposed to remove and transfer the artifact to a secure location all on his own. Even though it was a secret mission, this is a ridiculous thing to do. Removing the artifact without the knowledge and consent of the caretaker is just theft. It makes sense to tell Stan at the very least; the only reason he retired from the Knights was because caretakers aren't allowed to be Knights. It's irresponsible to go in somewhere even a small modicum as dangerous without telling anyone else where you're going and when you'll return.
✧ During the battle with the guardian of the Sands of Sanctity, Warren gets severely injured. He's already been stabbed in the gut, and is feverish; this is an extremely serious injury. He's lost enough blood, it's surprising he's conscious. (To be fair, I don't think Mull understands how fragile humans are. He seems to think getting gored by antlers is easily survivable.) And then he gets bit by one of the guardian's snakes, and hot acidic sludge is sprayed across his chest and legs. Vanessa says he's dying, and offers him a gaseous potion to extend his life. He refuses this, and uses the spear to attack the guardian, using the rod to fall full speed at it for the last 30 feet. Here's a description of the state he's in by the time Kendra gets to him to save him.
Warren was a wreck, facedown, unconscious, breathing shallowly. Heaving with both hands, Kendra rolled him over, wincing as something inside of him crunched. His mouth was open. Tilting his head up, she tried to ignore the snapping sound his neck made, and dumped the potion into his mouth. His Adam's apple bobbed, and much of the fluid leaked out the sides of his mouth.
Clearly, this was not a wise move; had it not been for the Sands, I believe he would've died. Heroic, certainly. But it left Kendra alone with Vanessa. When Tanu arrives, he says Warren must be nearly gone, or he'd be able to move around freely. It doesn't guarantee the guardian will be killed, only that he will be, and the guardian still has another life that Vanessa would have to deal with.
✧ Warren's decision to confront Stingbulb! Kendra in the middle of the night seemed to me a terrible lapse in judgement. It's true he didn't know she was a stingbulb, but he suspects something of that magnitude. When Seth asks if mind control is likely, he shrugs and says nothing would surprise him. Any way it could've gone might have been disastrous. If it was mind control, there's the suicide tactic. If not that, then she could just make a scene, wake up her parents with screams of "there's a strange man in my house!", and neither Warren nor Seth would be able to give a reasonable explanation. He must've believed she was aligned with the enemy, because if he went in thinking it really was all her, and she sincerely believed in leaking these secrets, they'd have to have a long and involved conversation with her grandparents present. This outcome doesn't necessitate confronting her in the middle of the night.
✧ Peeking at Chalize on the Lost Mesa mission. You already know this one, but I am including it for others who might be reading. From Warren's perspective (not knowing Gavarog's true identity), Gavin warned everyone not to look at the dragon, staking his deal with her on the promise his companions were not to gaze upon her. This was dangerous, and there was no good reason for it.
✧ Warren basically convinces Seth to join the Knights on the Wyrmroost mission in SotDS. Seth fully intended to just sulk about it. Warren certainly didn't coerce him, but he more than encouraged him, and Seth wouldn't have been able to act alone. It should be obvious why this is irresponsible. You can read an excerpt from the book of the part where Warren collaborates with Seth to bring him on the mission here. I've put it in a pastebin, as it's a bit long to include here.
✧ I'm going to double down and say having Raxtus drop Warren so he could attack the harpy was still reckless behaviour. He had all the facts, yes, but none of the facts justify dropping Warren only to dive and catch him again moments later. The initial reason Warren had for wanting to be dropped was so Raxtus could make a speedier escape with Bracken and Kendra. The plunging attack manoeuvre doesn't facilitate that. Its sole purpose would be taking the chance that Warren is able to attack a harpy while falling. The risk is Warren falling to his death, or Raxtus botching the catch- imagine grabbing an arm or a leg and having it dislocate; or the harpy grab Warren and attempt to carry him off.
Now that I'm through with examples of Warren being irresponsible, let's move onto your point on there being a difference in thought process. I don't think there is much of a difference between Warren and Seth when it comes to their decision-making process. Here's an excerpt from right after Seth returns after stealing the unicorn horn.
"I'm with your grandfather on this," Grandma said. "We love you and we're proud of you. The risks you took worked out this time. But how can we reward such behavior? Because we love you, we must teach you caution, or your boldness will destroy you. "
"I weighed my options and made smart choices," Seth responded. "I didn't set out to borrow the horn. I only decided to try for the horn after Graulas showed how my skills as a shadow charmer gave me a realistic chance at success. It was me or nobody. What would Patton have done?"
Warren chuckled. "He would have shaved the centaurs, dipped them in honey, covered them with feathers, and hung them up like a bunch of piñatas. " Kendra, Seth, and Tanu laughed. "I'm just saying. "
...
"Yeah, well, I'll give this stupid horn back to the centaurs before I get left out of the trip to Wyrmroost," Seth threatened. "Good luck taking it from me!"
"It isn't going to be a vacation," Coulter said.
"And it isn't about seeing cool dragons," Grandpa growled, clearly losing his temper.
"Although they will be cool," Warren murmured, earning an elbow from Tanu.
Tears brimmed in Seth's eyes. His mouth opened as if he wanted to say more; then he turned and stormed out of the room.
"What are we going to do with that boy?" Grandma sighed.
"I don't know," Grandpa said. "If he hadn't decided to go after the horn, we'd still be treading water. Maybe he's the only one of us seeing this clearly. "
Grandma shook her head. "Don't kid yourself. His main interest is still the adventure. Saving the world is a happy side effect. This is all still a game to him. "
"Patton was the same way," Warren mentioned. "He did a lot of good, partly because he relished the thrill. "
"I think Seth cares," Kendra spoke up. "It isn't only about the fun anymore. I think he's learning. "
I think this part speaks for itself. And I get the feeling Warren's counting himself among the "like Patton" crowd. Warren and Seth do things for the right reasons, most of the time. I think that their most egregious risks come in situations with seemingly no way out, where their idea presents as an outlandish "so crazy it just might work" option. You bring up the time Seth went into Graulas' cave for the first time in GotSP. He goes in not knowing much at all, which is rash. He doesn't know Graulas will radiate fear, and he doesn't know he's immune to said fear. But he doesn't make this decision out of nowhere. Shadow! Tanu has assured his safety to him. Here's an excerpt from the book, which comes after paragraphs of Seth contemplating whether the risk is wise.
Was sneaking out of the house to follow the shadowy manifestations of Coulter and Tanu into the woods going to be dangerous? Absolutely. The question was whether the risk was justified.
Earlier that afternoon, Tanu had completed his transformation into a shadowman just outside the window. He had waited in the shade on the deck until sundown, when he had ventured off into the woods. A few hours later, with evening deepening, the silent shadows of Tanu and Coulter had returned. Visible only to Seth, they had stood halfway across the yard from the house, allowing Grandpa to address them from the deck. Tanu had indicated that all was well with two thumbs up, and they had gestured for Seth to follow them, inviting Grandpa to come along as well. Through pantomime, Coulter had expressed that he would scout ahead as they traveled in order to prevent encounters with dangerous creatures.
But Grandpa had declined the invitation. He had stated that if Tanu and Coulter could devise a way for him to follow them without Seth, he would consent to accompany them. As he told them this, Seth stood behind him making subtle gestures, stealthily pointing at Grandpa and shaking his head, then pointing at himself, then pointing at them, then winking. None but Seth could see Tanu salute that he had received the message.
The house had been still for some time. If he was going to follow through on the message he had mimed to Tanu and Coulter, the moment had arrived. But he hesitated. Was he actually going to disregard a direct order from Grandpa and entrust his life to the shadowy versions of Tanu and Coulter? If Tanu and Coulter had his best interests in mind, would they be willing to let him sneak away with them against Grandpa's wishes? Hopefully they were certain he would be safe and confident that Grandpa would thank them all later.
What were the possibilities? They might lead him into a trap. He might die or be transformed into a shadow himself. Then again, he might solve the mystery of the plague, restore Tanu and Coulter, and save Fablehaven.
Seth scooted out from under his covers, pulled on his shoes, and started tying the laces. The bottom line was that Grandpa would have been willing to risk his life on the gamble that the shadows of Tanu and Coulter meant to offer meaningful assistance. He would have followed them if he could have done so alone. He simply was not willing to risk Seth's life. To Seth, this proved that the risk was worth taking. If Grandpa loved him too much to let him take a worthwhile risk, then he would bypass Grandpa.
It speak for itself. This is the option that presents itself to him, as the gang seems backed into a corner. They don't know what to do about the plague. Stan seems defeated; he questions if he's fit for his role as caretaker. They contemplate ditching the preserve before the plague claims them as victims, but stand by because they're worried the Sphinx would become caretaker in their absence.
In conclusion, I'd like to go back to the point of my original post. People like to joke about Seth being an idiot, someone who doesn't think things through, while seeing Warren as slightly devil-may-care but ultimately smooth and capable. I'm saying that there's no difference between the two in that respect, but Warren being an attractive adult makes us perceive him as more responsible.
i picked up on warrens dealing with the satyrs too! altho it never actually says he traded for gold i doubt he set them up with their gear out of the kindness of his heart. dont get me wrong he’s nice and if they were friends then maybe but its unlikely.
tbf the knights are supposed to be secret so you cant just be telling people. the ones who sent warren would know of his whereabouts if anything did happen then they could reach out to the family.
i would like to defend his actions in the inverted tower. so he was told that back up wasnt coming by vanessa and he’s already suffering an injury from the minotaur. they cant turn back and if they try to wait for others to come he could have lost too much blood. so his reasoning for his stunt with the panther was that he would prolly die anyway after all the wounds he’s gotten at this point so he may as well go out swinging and giving the others a better chance. the gaseous potion would only last him a little bit and if it was true abt the back up then he would just continue to get worse once the potion wore off so taking it seemed pointless.
and similarly with the harpy attack they were backed into a corner and he was just hoping to give the others a better chance. he may have been aware of the odds his attack wouldnt work but it prolly just seemed like there were no other options. so again, go out swinging.
ik both seth and warren seem confident but idk if they would think of their ideas as “so crazy that it might just work” but as “there is no other way and we have got to do something”
yes warren and seth are very similar. but we are watching seth grow and make mistakes like opening the window. whereas warrens kind of out of that curious stage. kind of. so if people preferred warren over seth it can be because we’re watching seth’s journey and his errors and they are pretty frustrating at times.
also a time travel story with warren and patton would be awesome!
man in rotes seth is kinda heartless when it came to dale being a potential victim. it was suggested that vanessa could use dale to get to them and seth’s just like eesh break his legs he’ll be fine. literally though no issues with crippling dale😂
could the sphinx and the society have sabotaged ruth’s meeting with the jinn? getting ruth out of the way kept them somewhat short staffed and off balance in the first book when they plotted to overthrow fablehaven using muriel and bahumat. the way ruth describes remembering something she shouldnt have is odd. tanu mentions potions to bring back memories. i suppose it is a long shot. maybe the jinn still had some power in him or it could have simply been a slip up on ruth’s part but who knows.
If you could spend a day with any Fablehaven character, who would it be? What would you do? Oh, and it can't be Warren ;)
HAHAHAHHAHA the fact you specifically said that it can’t be warren made me laugh so hard
hum i think it would be kendra or bracken in that case! because i feel like i would get along with them and i just want them to be my best friends u know. we could go on a little road trip and visit some beautiful places, take pictures, have fun and sing throwback songs in the car. just a perfect day in my opinion, like going on an adventure with ken or bracken ? I WOULD DO IT ANYTIME
what about you guys? who would you choose and what would you do ? i’m curious !! <3
after taking the quiz from @candlemouse and getting warrenessa… here i am to agree that they had way more potential and could have surpassed what we saw in dragonwatch. not that i didnt enjoy the small parts they played in the series but…. im just saying yeah there could have been more.
vanessa was just so cool in fablehaven and so was warren! they had this secret agents thing going on but in dragonwatch for the most part they were kinda just there? and ngl i wouldnt mind if there was more content with them being there 😂 but also i’d reallly love if they were really involved and played more key roles like they did in the first series.
was warren and elise supposed to be a thing? all ik is that they worked together but in kendras pov she wondered if elise liked warren so was brandon trying to hint at that pairing? i really didnt like the idea of them together when it was first presented (and i still dont)
WARNING. i ended up going on a rant that isnt totally relevant to a live action fablehaven but enjoy!
i would love to see more fablehaven content and possibly bring more people into this universe by a live action show or movie! and hopefully they would find actors that fit the characters’ looks and personality too.
on the other hand though… a lot might not live up to what i’ve already imagined in my head. it could prove to be very hard to find good actors to play these characters.
i think someone else pointed out how bad dragon cgi can be and this gives good reason to fear an adaptation of SotDS. If these books are going to be made into a show or movies then i want them brought to justice and unfortunately that doesnt always happen.
i’m not sure how much the live action should stick to the source material because some things could be cut and some things could go into more detail than they did in the books. (one thing they should cut is the kids going with errol in the second book bc that just sends a bad message😂)
i knoww these are kids books with kids at the center but at the same time i wouldnt mind more time jumps with them growing up between books (especially between fablehaven and dragonwatch) some things i feel i would take better if more time had passed and if the character were older
for instance, seth going into grunhold or being on the mission to wyrmroost. i feel like i would take that situation a bit better if seth had matured both physically and mentally from the boy who opened the window on midsummers eve and that seth wasnt just consistently being arrogant and ignoring everybody’s warnings like a child would but instead had grown up and when he did defy everyone people wouldnt say its bc he’s a dumb kid but would actually consider his actions to be that of a brave man who took the time to think about what he was doing [not saying that seth isnt brave but it is often shown that seth has some selfish or childish reasons for doing things]
i dont mean to say they should get rid of all his faults bc a big part of seth’s character is making mistakes and learning from them. (also the consequences of seth’s mistakes make up most of the plot😂) but cmon he consistently defies everyone bc he thinks he knows better which whether or not he does help in a situation it can be annoying to see someone like this get their way all the time. i’d like more maturity shown with seth character in between his crazy stunts to break up all the impulsiveness.
all the crazy stuff that they go through all happens in the span of like 3 years? theyve thought each other were dead, actually watched people die, suffered some serious betrayal, and faced death numerous times so yeah give these kids some time to breathe! idk if im alone in thinking they should physically grow up through the series bc it is a kids’ series with them in the spotlight but im just sayin.
would it be sending a bad message if they did physically grow up though? would that be like telling kids you CANT change or be better until youre older? bc obviously children can learn from a mistake pretty quickly but i just feel like with all that happens itd be better if they aged more than they did in the books.
also if they did adapt the books wouldnt they have to make the characters older? bc it would take a while to make a tv series or movies and the actors would obviously age right?
first of all warren should not go to prison. why? because i said so XD and if he has to go then the sorenson grandparents got to go as well for child endangerment :P
great now i have to make a list of all the crimes that the fablehaven characters have committed😂
ROTDS SPOILERS. so the singing sisters manipulated the situation to where conrad was stuck with the source for all those years when an alternative could have been provided? literally just tell conrad he needed to come a week before seth did and wait for him and aid him then. not wait around in a bubble doing nothing for centuries. like conrad didnt even serve a major purpose did he? the alderfairy could have done everything he did but no lets just make him suffer.
its a weird situation bc we cant know for sure the void would fix it😞 i hope it would and ive ranted abt it before but also it is the void so maybe it just wouldnt work. when you put it like oh hey the light and dark magic cancel eachother out or something that makes sense but then again… its the void so i dunno if it would have the nature to heal things bc if anything it should be a corrupting force. i’d like to see vanessa cured tho! but its complicated.
i think in dragonwatch ronodin corrupted some pools so he may not be capable of healing. unless its less about the healing and more focused on the presence of a light or dark force and if its the latter then thered be like a presence of light that injured her and maybe a presence of darkness would counter it? that feels like a stretch tho
