Sources for the above. Not repeating counts or sources for additional references to the same instance of a category.
Been Fired / forced out from her job:
Ms Marvel (1977) #1 -- From NASA, as Chief of Security
Significant brain injury / memory loss:
Ms Marvel (1967) #1
Bad migraines + memory blackouts (caused by dual personality) - continues for many issues
Lost her temper and hit someone she shouldn't:
Ms. Marvel (1977) #13: Knocks her father out for making himself difficult to save. Is visibly angry at him, and comments that it's something he "had coming for a long time anyway".
2. Ms. Marvel (1977) #15: Beast tries to fight her, assuming she's an intruder. Carol gets tired of explaining and punches him through a window. She tells Wanda that she "lost [her] temper".
Dead Love Interest:
none yet
Kills (1+) people on-panel:
Note: if a character is killed & that is later retconned / they're revived, the kill still counts. If they're revealed to not be dead within the same storyline, the kill would not count.
Note 2: Counting instances, not kill count; if Carol explodes a spaceship with an unknown number of people on it, we can just count that once.
1. Ms Marvel (1977) #8
I've decided to count Grotesk, as she certainly thinks and talks like she killed him; the narration implies that he may have teleported to another dimension, but he's as good as dead for years after this. Narratively, she killed him.
2. Marvel Team Up (1972) #62
If I count Grotesk, I'm counting the Super-Skrull. Carol even says she's not sure how she "survived" (implying the Skrull did not survive being pulled into warp-space, at least as far as she knows).
In honor of reaching the new suit in my liveblog (Ms. Marvel (1977) #20) and the recent [BAD] reference to Carol's old costume in the newest CM: Dark Past (2026) issue, the costume gets its own post.
Under the read more: History of the costume, and references to it in Marvel and other media.
Goodbye to the scarf!
I have a feeling Chris Claremont was relieved to be rid of the scarf. Carol, too, after several stranglings by enemies, including Deathbird and Grotesque.
The costume is divisive (because of bad comic art)
Many people hate this costume for its sexualized design, while many people love it for its nostalgia, style, and sexualized design.
I'm personally okay with it, although I greatly prefer her Captain Marvel costume; now that we've moved on, I would find it very hard to go back.
I think it CAN be drawn well, but I'm happy it's retired....
because it was so often used... irresponsibly................... :/
Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel)
In Ms. Marvel (2014), Kamala Khan's debut series, the costume is referenced often. Kamala, a BIG fan of Carol's, is frequently seen wearing a jacket with her lightning-bolt.
Her post-Terrigen power spike causes Kamala to inadvertently shapeshift to look like Carol, causing scenes all around town. Thematically, it's a young, Pakistani girl trying to live up to the "classic" superhero image, of this older, tall, White, beautiful woman. This idea is best embodied by Carol's "classic" suit, as well as tying into Kamala's choice to take the Ms. Marvel mantle.
Finally, the suit is referenced in Kamala's Ms. Marvel costume— which incorporates both the lightning-bolt and the original scarf, as well as Kamala's own personal style.
Emilio Gallardo (Cadet Marvel)
The costume is also VERY directly used in the design for Cadet Marvel, Carol's newest legacy character. So far, Jessica Drew has interacted with him, but Carol has yet to meet him. He's not really a significant character at this time.
References in-universe
Captain Marvel (2019): Hazmat tells Carol "I've never seen your bare legs before... I mean, in real life. Of course I've seen them a million times on the internet because you used to fight crime in a swimsuit."
Captain Marvel: Dark Past (2026): The writer put Carol in her old suit, and then fake-Marie-Danvers strawmans on the un-feminism of it all. Carol, a character, is blamed for an outfit men chose for her, and then the writer makes her reply with some snappy comeback about how it's not unfeminist at all because it's Kree tech blah blah blah. The other references I find to be in good humor, but this is egregious.
Uncanny-Xmen (1963): Carol (in Rogue's body) discusses the costume with Betsy-Psylocke. She then wears the costume to fight crime before Rogue wrests control of her body back, upset to that she's dressed in Carol's clothes.
Spider-Woman (2015): Carol is excited that Jess is trying out a new look, and Jess makes fun of her old costume. I believe Jess' costume change at the time was spurred by [particularly sexualized cover art]. The old Spider-Woman costume is back nowadays, which is fine by me, since I always liked it. (I liked the new one, too.)
Jessica Jones: Blind Spot (2020) #5: Jess Jones is put in this costume for no particular reason (fanservice), iirc. Carol's her best friend, so they do have a connection.
Uncanny X-Men (1963): The aforementioned Rogue in Carol's old costume. Rogue had absorbed all of Carol's memories, so a version of Carol lived in her head and took over from time to time.
Battleworld (2026): This is AU Carol, from the past. She had recently quit drinking and was regaining her confidence, so the costume choice was for a specific reason. I loved this mini-series except for literally the one line she is saying in this panel that I capped.
References in other media
Occasionally, it is also referenced outside of Marvel! Knives Chao from Scott Pilgrim Takes Off (2023).
(If anyone wants to help me add to this section, I'll edit and credit you!)
Stands on its own pretty well, so I'll leave it at this one.
Mar-Vell
Ronan comes to earth (hi Minn-Erva) to capture Carol, an exemplary combination of Human/Kree that the Supreme Intelligence wants.
"Nerves on fire-- so much pain! ... my arm is frozen to the marrow ... have to block out the pain."
Carol's getting fucked up in these fights sometimes. Her supernatural pain tolerance was there from the beginning. (More blood!)
"Mar-Vell?! I always assumed that we'd meet again someday. But now that it's happening-- I'm... scared."
You guys were actually in the same room as each other last week, on the Avengers. You didn't really talk it was kind of awkward.
Well, he clocks Carol right off. So far, a good number of people know Carol's secret identity, but she hasn't actually told anyone (yet), they all found out by other means. [MODOK, Mike, Marie Danvers, Mar-Vell...]
I remember who she tells first, but it will happen soon enough (later this run) so I shan't say, in case anyone is reading along. Take a guess. :)
huh this is kind of what happens in the captain marvel movie
Carol's mind is attacked, spurring flashbacks, but ultimately she and Mar-Vell break free.
Carol meta-narratively explains that she doesn't want to be tied to Mar-Vell, and asks if they can just be friends. Is this the last time they interact before he dies? I actually don't remember, so maybe they'll get one more issue together. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Carol's Backstory
Through the Supreme Intelligence's mind alteration, we see flashes of Carol's backstory...
[...She was both a part of her family... and apart from it. Someone once said, "you always hurt the one you love." if so, her father must have loved her very much. Even now, she can't remember a time they weren't fighting.]
"I want to go to college. I've been working part time almost two years now, but I'm still way short of the tuition fees. I need a loan. You're my last hope, Dad."
"And my answer's still no ... I can afford to send one of you kids to college-- and it's gonna be your brother, Steve."
"That's not fair!"
"Life isn't fair, kitten. Besides, you don't need college to find a good husband."
Carol, the Valedictorian, pleads her case to her father, but he tells her that girls don't need to go to college, and he's saving up for her younger brother, Steve to go.
A/N: My mom's dad didn't believe women should go to college, either, and wouldn't help support. He suggested she become a cocktail waitress, instead, implying she'd make tips because she was pretty. (She took a loan out and went anyway.) Always have felt particularly fond of this backstory detail for that reason.
Two important notes here on Carol running away to join the Air Force:
The USAF is her last resort, after her dad refuses to help her pay for college. She didn't pre-plan to enlist, or seemingly join out of some great sense of patriotism. It's explicitly just one of the few options available to her. I note this because some writers paint her as being in the military entirely uncritically, but I think her path is more interesting than that.
"The day after her eighteenth birthday-- without a word to her parents or a backwards glance-- she enlisted."
Carol is generally estranged from her family, which starts as soon as she's an adult. She has just enough contact with them, however contentious, that their portrayal shifts around sometimes, depending on who's writing.
Oh, Okay. So yes, confirmation that Carol's past "great love" (Michael Rossi) was her teacher.
I can't say that a negative implication was intended by Claremont, but it's hard not to interpret Carol as a vulnerable, attractive woman who gets taken advantage of by men sometimes. She leaves her abusive home at 18, joining the military for an ill-advised path to independence. After basic training, she ends up in a relationship with her teacher, "Colonel Rossi", a man I can only imagine is notably older than her. And now she's having an affair with her psychiatrist.
"I thought I'd been through hell in my life-- but I was wrong."
Battleworld (2025): Korvac's in agreement, and most of the stuff Battleworld referenced hasn't even happened yet. There's this vague hell Claremont refers to sometimes that occurs between Carol's abusive childhood and her impending bout of life-ruining events, which will all play out in short order soon. It involved violence and death, we can surmise. Woman's never had break.
I liked Anthony Oliveira's* interpretation of her: [link to interview]
*author of 2 great Carol appearances, "Avengers Academy: Marvel's Voices (2024)" & "Captain Marvel: Assault on Eden (2023)"
Review: Pretty essential reading.
It's about time Carol and Mar-Vell got an appearance together, but I actually didn't mind that it took so long, allowing her to be established as an independent hero. While this is one of those cases where women are forced to exist only as legacy heroes to existing male characters, what makes the Captain Marvel legacy fun in the modern day is that Carol is easily the most famous Captain Marvel, and Marv has been dead longer than he was ever alive.
Also a great look into her backstory. Carol's been on kind of a shitty path since birth, looking for purpose and stability wherever she can get it. At the beginning of her series, she sadly called her (pre-Ms.M) life the happiest she's ever been, but that already didn't last long, and is about to torpedo pretty soon. But as she says in Avengers Annual #10 (upcoming): "[I'll] pick up the pieces of my life again. Survive. I'm good at that."
This series continues to irk me. I really do try to like it each month, but... nope! The critique continues below the cut.
The Art ☀️
I'll lead with a good note, so you know I'm trying to give it a shot.
I'm enjoying the art! My favorite Carol is more buff and not so makeuped, but it's really pretty, it's definitely carrying this series.
I thought I'd have more good things to say, but they're too buried in with the bad, so... oh well.
Writing Style 📉
We'll start with my least important critique, something I could ignore if the rest of it was good: I don't like his writing. Not just like... his plot or choices but the words on the page... not a fan. It's neither natural nor particularly poetic.
"I've been falling since the moment I was born. Headed in the direction of my only exit. But I've never been afraid of the fall. See, the trick is in learning how to fly."
Look, I like to write. I respect that sometimes you want to say something cool and it turns out clunky. So I read this a couple times, with best intentions in mind and... still not good. He was too focused on a falling/flying metaphor (because she loves to fly haha get it) and forgot to actually say anything meaningful.
"Because if you never accept the fall... you may never know where you stand."
This is insulting to me personally as a Carol fan, because I think she writes better than this, and these are her thoughts, so it's misrepresenting her skill.
(reprise) "But I've never been afraid of the fall. Only the ground."
| | |
🎤
The mic is droppin'. It's not afraid of the fall, but it is afraid of the ground... because it knows the mic drop moment is unsatisfying.
Steve (go girl give us nothing)
Look Steve is here.
For those who don't know Steve: he was introduced in her first very series in a flashback— her younger brother, who her misogynistic father intended to send to college instead of her. He was later retconned to have been drafted and killed in Vietnam, then later retconned to have been older than her. The MOVIE Captain Marvel (2019) gave them a cute relationship, with him seeming much older and nice.
Since Steve is actually a rather unexplored character, one might hope that his appearance might be significant and interesting. Even though this is a ruse by Eric, maybe some cool insight into how Carol feels seeing her dead brother again. Nope!
Instead, we get "Stevie" implying that Carol gets people killed just by being around them, even though he was (as they say in the same panel) killed in the military in an event 100% unrelated to her in ANY way. Sure, her Therapist-Boyfriend Mike Barnett died by association, but she's not Spider-Man levels of proximity-dangerous; there are usually external factors involved if someone she knows dies.
If Anthony Oliveira was writing this, he would have had something to say about the misery the US Military has wreaked on Carol's life, and the things she and her brother were complicit in, even as it actively harmed them... but there's nothing to be said here, so moving on.
I like how Anthony writes her and I will continue to spread propaganda until they give him her next miniseries or ongoing. Or me. Give it to me.
A heartbreaking confrontation between Carol and her dead moth— oh nvm they're talking about an outfit
GREAT OKAY. Let's use our valuable page count not to explore the complicated relationship Carol has with her mom, but criticize a fictional woman for the outfit that real men put her in.
It's inverted here or whatever, because it's actually Eric being a dick, but it doesn't matter because it is literally now in-universe dialogue. Look my simple comic rule is I don't care if they put women in sexy outfit sometimes, but we cannot acknowledge it as if the woman herself chose it.
"Yeah. Wow. I've never seen your bare legs before... I mean, in real life. Of course I've seen them a million times on the internet because you used to fight crime in a swimsuit."
Unless it's funny.
(Thank you Kelly Thompson, Captain Marvel (2019))
And most infuriatingly, this moment is used AS AN EXCUSE TO PUT HER IN THE COSTUME. Lotta bare ass on this one. I think it was a great idea to put this costume up on a high shelf because most artists cannot be trusted with it.
Example: FIRST issue of Ms. Marvel (2006). I can see 1/3rd of this woman's spectacularly clean-shaven crotch.
Carol was literally originally written to be an Annoying Feminist (affectionate), so I think it should be a little wild down there; at least in Dark Past, where she wasn't expecting to be pantsless. Anyway.
This is giving so much "Power Girl has a boob window because she doesn't have a symbol like Superman".
"People always ask me why I have this hole right here. They think I'm showing off... or just being lewd. ... I wanted to have a symbol like you. ... I thought eventually I'd figure it out. And close the hole. but I haven't. 🥺"
Carol punches an illusion that looks just like her dead mom, a woman who she had a complicated relationship with due to her refusal to leave Carol's physically and emotionally abusive, misogynist father; also she never told Carol that she and her were aliens. And also she recently died violently in front of her. But the punch causes Carol no weird feelings and their whole convo was about an outfit. That's fine.
Joe Danvers (Carol's dad)
As I've complained about before, the portrayal of Joe Danvers, and Carol's relationship with him, has been my biggest gripe with this mini-series.
"Dad... about what happened back in the diner. Look, we all say things we don't mean sometimes. I'm sorry I pushed. I just want to know what happened with you and DNVR. It's part of my job."
First of fucking all, there's no way in hell that Carol would APOLOGIZE to her dad for pushing a topic, even if she liked him and she was in the wrong. Her biggest character flaw is being a stubborn asshole, especially towards people who do kind of deserve it. I'm not saying she'd never apologize to anyone, just not to her dad, and not for this.
'Someone once said "You always hurt the one you love." If so, her father must have loved her very much. Even now, she can't remember a time they weren't fighting.'
Case in point.
"I'd say just like old times, but... mostly all I remember about growing up is you yelling at me. How sad is that? When I ... think about my dad, the first thing I think of is him yelling at me."
And another. I also completely disagree that they'd go out for a meal for any reason. She may visit him at home if she wanted to know something, but they explicitly are not close.
We see Joe being angry and threatening, scaring her, but oddly there is no mention in this series of his being canonically abusive towards Carol and her brothers.
Which brings me to my next point...
Eric Danvers (Carol's [new] cousin)
Despite the appearances of all of Carol's family members (sans JJ), there is a shocking, complete lack of exploration about how she feels towards any of them, or her childhood.
But we get Eric's backstory. We learn how he feels about THEIR family, and his childhood, and even though it's the perfect opportunity for Carol to empathize, it's STILL not used to connect them at all.
Eric, a member of the Danvers family, was physically abused as a child, and felt hurt and abandoned by Joe Danvers. HEY, GUESS WHO ELSE FEELS THE SAME WAY?
CAROL. OUR MAIN CHARACTER.
In Uncanny X-Men (1963) (an issue in the 1980's), Carol references her father beating her as a teenager. In Life of Captain Marvel (2018), we learn that Joe also physically abused her two brothers, and that Carol has PTSD stemming from her childhood abuse.
Yet in the end, there is no mention of any of this in Dark Past. Carol almost seems to come to the realization that Eric was right to hate her father, instead of empathizing with this point from the get-go.
I would have liked to see her reveal to him that she also suffered (in different ways) by being born into their fucked up family, and that blood and who you're related to ISN'T the most important thing in your life, and leaving them for kinder people and choosing a kinder path is an option.
"But in the end, you're just a bully, Eric. Chock-full of psychic memes. Yelling all your pointless ideas about purity in all caps."
It would even tie nicely into the one theme that I do think Dark Past is TRYING to touch on, which is the modern white supremacist movement in America, and the White men who have been indoctrinated into it. He's been told that purity is important, yet his "pure" family is cruel and violent to him.
It ultimately leads to THIS moment, where Carol extends kindness and empathy towards this abused child. Unfortunately, Eric is NOT actually a child, he is a grown-ass, racist man, and I do think Carol can tell the difference between the two. I wouldn't mind this as much if Eric was even like... a young adult.
"We're all damaged, we've all been hurt. it's an explanation, but it's not an excuse. Abused people make the right choice every day. People who suffer unimaginable things are still good guys... all the time." (Carol in Star 2020)
Another thing that would have really cleaned up this whole plotline would be if JOE JR, Carol's OTHER brother (who was not mentioned in this issue at all), was here instead of Eric. Instead of this convoluted and messy DNVR plotline, we could have had Joe Jr join Hydra. Then we could have had a realistic discussion about the way white supremacy entices White men who feel disadvantaged.
We would understand Joe Jr's backstory, since it's the same as Carol's minus the misogyny. We could see how her father's bigotry and violence drove Carol away, but how it became something JJ clung to, desperate to be accepted and loved by his flawed father and the culture he was raised in.
But instead we get Eric.
Review: Bad. Sexist.
Ultimately, my review boils down to this: Dark Past cares far more about developing Eric and Joe Danvers than it does Carol. It might not be because the writer is sexist, but I have a feeling he wouldn't do this if he was writing Spider-Man.
It goes out of its way to ignore established details about Carol in favor of softening her abusive father and leading her to forgive her racist family member, and for that, this has quickly become my least favorite Carol series, surpassing the previous loser, "Dark Tempest". Hilariously similar name on those. No more "dark" anything titles for Carol please. And also, give Anthony Oliveira her next book, please. Or me. I'll take it.
Mystique!! Mystique first appears in Ms. Marvel (1977), and her adoptive daughter, Rogue, is also debuted in relation to this plotline. Carol and Rogue still have a very interconnected relationship in the comics, but despite being arguably her biggest nemesis, Mystique hasn't appeared with Carol in ages.
We learn she's a shapeshifter, disguising herself as Nick Fury, then others. She hires Ballard, the CIA guy Frank was trying to find, to assassinate Carol. Ballard gears up in Centurion armor, and ends up fighting all the Avengers.
"Easier said than done, buster, because even with my back to the wall--
I don't give up!"
Always did like the Kelly Sue Deckonnick quote: "Carol keeps falling down, but she always gets back up. We say the same thing about Captain America, but Steve always gets back up because it's the right thing to do. Carol gets back up because 'Fuck you.'"
The Avengers see Carol getting hurt and jump in to help. Carol uses her magical-girl-transformation abilities to hide in plain sight in her civvies.
Carol learns Centurion (Ballard) has the ability to track her suit, so she changes into a precursor for her next costume -- the lightning-bolt.
HANK, DON'T FUCK WITH ME. I'll KICK THE SHIT OUT OF YOU.
Arabella
"Nightmares I have known and hated...
...Could it be my seventh-sense, warning me of an ambush? ...
'Relax' Ha! I've never felt so scared in my entire life. Not to mention helpless.
If this keeps up, I won't need to be killed.
I'll simply come apart at the seams."
More of Carol's mental health troubles. She's seeing (and seeing) a psychiatrist, shaking from frequent nightmares that may or may not be predictions, and people around her are noticing and frequently commenting on her stress level.
How do you think Carol's precog ability mixes with her canon PTSD? Imagine having a nightmare or a vivid triggered thought and having to wonder if you were literally seeing into the future, or if you were just having trauma symptoms. That sounds rough.
Anyway lucky for Carol, this beautiful, pantsless woman comes over to make her feel better. They're evidently close enough at this point that Arabella feels comfortable telling Carol what she really thinks, which is definitely quite familiar.
"I'll survive, Arabella. I always have."
"Is that what you want out of life, survival?
What about feelings? What about needing and wanting and caring and love?"
"What about them? I've loved two people in my life, with all my heart. Both are dead.
One, I think, I might have saved... but I didn't."
Arabella tells Carol she needs to let people in so they can give her care and love. Carol admits she has loved two people with all of her heart, and they've both died.
One of these two people, who she "might have saved", is pretty explicitly Salia, right?
Now... is the other dead person Michael Rossi, or someone else? I can't tell what number of points I could count in "Dead Love" here. I will say, we will see Rossi again. And in case anyone is reading along, what I won't say is what hm ok moving on...
"Sooner or later, you'll crack under the strain."
"In a lot of ways, my friend, I cracked a long, long time ago."
Carol, affirming Arabella's assertion that she puts up too many walls, gets tired of being vulnerable, and ends their little dalliance so she can get ready for work.
Frank
"Why Frank, have you been away? Bless my soul, I never noticed.
... I already have a date, thanks." (with Arabella??)
Frank returns. Carol is characteristically abrasive with him; she always talks this way to Frank, it's hilarious.
"Nobody snowballs Carol Danvers-- the former terror of Webster Elementary-- and gets away with it!"
Frank and Tracy work together to pummel Carol with snowballs.
Carol gets really into the game and tackles Frank. Shocked, Frank was very clearly not expecting his BOSS to tackle him. Picture your manager going in for the football tackle.
He'd probably be shocked to learn what kind of life his serious, perpetually-stressed, hot lady boss has lived.
Seizing his opportunity, Frank kisses Carol. He definitely initiates, but she finds the kiss "enjoyable".
"You're a pistol, Frank, but a kiss-- however enjoyable-- does not a love affair make."
Frank comes on a little to strong, and Carol pushes him down a hill. Even if we don't include whatever is going on with some of the women in Carol's life, she has a tendency to play the field. Mike, Frank, Wonder Man, that guy Paul we saw for two seconds, etc.
And Salia and Arabella...
Review: Fun! Carol has interesting relationships with others, and Mystique is here.
Mystique is a really fun and scary nemesis for Carol, and I appreciate that she's also a woman, and she's married to a woman, and she has a daughter who is a girl who will one day be one of the women Carol significantly interacts with. Look how many cool women Mystique's inclusion adds. Yay women.
Speaking of women, I don't know what was up with Arabella but hello. I guess she and Carol have some relationship where she runs right over and listens to her talk for hours by the fire in the middle of the night, and feels comfortable telling her some difficult and heartfelt hard truths. And all of that, pantsless.
But so far, none of the men or women in this comic have been able to pin Carol down, so there's room for Frank! Despite my usual lack of interest, the kiss scene was pretty fun. A perpetually stressed woman tackles her employee, lets him kiss her, and then pushes him down a hill before he gets any ideas. (Not HR recommended.)
Sexualization (cw: mentions of future canonical sexual assault)
Carol's likeability (by author/characters) in Avengers (1963)
Simon
Wanda
Mar-Vell.
This is Carol's first appearance in the Avengers as Ms. Marvel.
Issues #171-172 were written by Jim Shooter, the editor on the infamous Avengers #200.
In unrelated news, here's Carol's INTRODUCTORY PANELS:
How Ever could something like Avengers #200 happen it will forever remain a mystery LOL.
This is actually NOT Carol's first appearance on the Avengers; she made a cameo in issue #90, pre-superhero, as NASA's Chief of Security. But it is her first appearance as Ms. Marvel.
Writers: Jim Shooter (#171-172 & 177, editor on #175-177) & David Michelinie (#175-176).
[on A#200, it's David credited as writer, with Jim as editor]
Sexualization
CW for discussions of canonical rape / sexual assault
We are currently on issue #171 of Avengers (1963); in issue #200 of Avengers (1963), Carol will be sent away from Earth forever* to live with a man who admitted to mind controlling and raping her.
Knowing this, I will be monitoring her appearances in this run pretty closely to see if there's a pattern of behavior. So far, the answer is yes.
*Not actually forever. Claremont, the author who has been writing her character since the third issue of her first ongoing, will be understandably horrified and will do a pretty incredible job of rectifying the situation.
This is Carol's OPENING SHOT, of her ass in her underwear. She's not doing anything cool, not superheroing, she's rude, and if showing her half-naked wasn't enough, it is spelled out to us that she is hot.
I actually never even appreciated the fact that Ms. Marvel (1977) was devoid of fanservice, it just seemed like it would be uncouth for the era. Thanks to Jim for proving that wrong on PANEL 1.
There was this scene in Ms. Marvel (1977) #8, where Carol climbs a cliff in her bathing suit, but she was doing cool stuff at the same time, and at least Mike's in his tight little swim shorts, too.
Jim would also like us to know that Wanda has big boobs, and Carol has a "well-shaped, firm figure". How ever could a man like this ever be involved in a scandal like Avengers #200?
It continues, as Ms Marvel flies away, leaving Carol's discarded clothes. And this awful gag character asks a great question, because unlike Spider-Man, Carol does not change physically change her clothes as Ms. Marvel (magical girl transformation), so there is no reason for Carol to not pull her blouse and trousers back on before leaving. Again, obviously because fanservice, but it's stupid anyway.
"I am your son! ... Iron Man stopped me from completely draining the Wasp's life-force into my metalloid bride-body, and thereby converting my flesh-and-blood mother into a suitable mate--" [Avengers (1963) #171]
Speaking of the looming Avengers #200, this issue also has very Oedipus-esque theme in Ultron being the "son" of Hank and wanting to marry a copy of his "mother" Jan.
"Forgive me, Mother. Forgive me... my love." [Avengers (1963) #200]
The pictured man, Marcus, is NOT actually Carol's son, but a pre-existing asshole who assaulted her then used her body as a dimensional portal in a god-awful scifi pregnancy plotline. They really play up the Oedipal themes though.
This is only tangentially related but WOAH did not have a Korvac sex scene on my bingo card. The wording is comical. "...As he softly slips between the delicate folds of Carina's soul--" GROSS haha.
PS For a good comic including both Korvac and Carol, check out Battleworld (2026). I really liked it; Carol was an important character, and her appearance was fun, except for literally one line of the comic that annoyed me a lot. But whatever, still recommend.
Carol's Likeability
This is my other big takeaway from Avengers (1963) as a whole: The Avengers did NOT like Carol very much, at first.
As I'll argue, this was in large part because Carol was not well liked by the authors, another reason for her punitive treatment in A#200.
Despite this, I'm okay with it being canon that the Avengers didn't like Carol, at first. Even in her solo series, Carol is a bit of an abrasive woman, with an admitted temper. She's not overly sweet, she takes things very seriously (such as Women's Lib), and she has a habit of snapping at people when stressed. And she's often stressed.
My interpretation is that characterization is true in BOTH Ms. Marvel (1977) AND in Avengers (1963), but the key difference is that Claremont LIKES these interesting qualities about her, and these dudes (Shooter, Michelinie) did NOT.
"It's nice to have another girl in the group!"
"Hmm! I'm afraid I quit being a "girl" quite a while back, but I appreciate the sentiment anyway!"
Case in point. I actually LOVE this line LOL. Carol is completely right, in that the language will never change if we don't call it out. She is also incapable of just smiling and nodding. Her social skills are not the best.
IDK if this was written in because Jim thinks all feminists are like this, but if so he lucked out because it is the exact kind of blunt Carol can hilariously be, to her own detriment.
Umm, well, Carol,,,
"Hurry Wonder Man! Ms. Marvel can't take Tyrak alone!"
"Maybe not... but I think she'd like to try! I've never seen anybody so... aggressive!
And she doesn't just strike a pose and point like Wanda or the Wasp! She hauls off and belts people--
--like a man would!"
Another really fun moment. Carol brazenly flies into battle, fists first. Wonder Man is taken aback by her "aggressive" nature, especially for a woman. Wanda does not seem to share these qualms.
Ms. Marvel being a superheroine who punches people directly and gets up close to fight was intentional. Generally, women were constrained to ranged attack, as Simon himself calls out. Carol getting to be a brawler was pretty uncommon and fun.
The difference between Claremont and Shooter/Michelinie is that Carol's extreme confidence in Ms M is a strength, whereas in the Avengers it's hubris. In Ms Marvel, if Carol is hurt because she rushed in to early, it would be framed as her stubborn desire to force the best outcome, with heroic motives. Here, Carol is unwise, and she needs to be "taken down a peg".
"Blondie's out-- one punch!
I hope she isn't hurt-- but that ought to take her down a peg!"
Hawkeye celebrates her defeat, making sure the reader knows that the silly, overconfident woman was taken out in just one hit.
But that's old comics for you, the newer ones would never beat up one of their leading female characters to 'teach her a lesson'--
uhm. hm. ok. [Avengers: Armageddon (2026)]
Simon
Simon is one of Carol's most outspoken critics on the Avengers. He's baffled by her direct nature and arrogance, explicitly in large part because she's a woman.
This also starts the Carol/Simon relationship. The thread is picked up in the Ms Marvel (2006) series. It'll be a while until we're there so my general thought: Carol kisses him to try and snap him out of mind control, has sex with him after killing someone because she wants a distraction, and... then denies having a romance with the man when asked. So just another one of Carol's bafflingly unromantic relationships with men.
Am I missing any major beats? I know he punches her through the roof of Avengers Mansion later lol.
Simon shows Carol to the weight room so he can show her that he's stronger than she is. He's overconfident, but still.
He notes that the weights are set to "Thor", but for the record, in CURRENT canon, Carol is on Thor-level of strength. In this run, Carol has her original powerset, but the powers she will soon get from the Brood are god-level.
Here's some fun caps of her punching Thor, Thor, and Simon. Many people who care far more about strength comparison have videos and articles that will tell you she can lift a dead Celestial etc. (One time she punched out Sentry after eating a nuke, which is like two cool abilities in a row.) I mostly point it out because some people don't want her to be one of the strongest, but at this point she canonically is.
Wanda
Wanda is one of the characters Carol has always been closest to, and it started from their first meeting (in the last Ms. M issue). Carol's seventh sense alerts her to danger involving Wanda. While the rest of the Avengers are busy with Ultron, she leaves to find her.
Carol's method of checking to see if a nun is a robot is to punch her head clean off. Glad she was correct.
We get some cool shots of Wanda, who really is going through it, until Carol finds her, bringing her back to hurt Ultron.
Mar-Vell.
Carol and Mar-Vell appear in this issue together, the first time they've been in the same room since the events of Captain Marvel (1968).................. and they don't speak to each other or acknowledge each other's presence in any way. After this, Wonder Man shows Carol his weight-lifting.
Given the romantic spin Marvel tries to give them, many would be surprised by how little Carol and Mar-Vell interact before he pretty much dies forever.
Review: A lot of fun moments actually, and a pretty solid characterization of Carol. You look up though and there's knives hanging overhead.
Overall, I really liked much of this. I think the writers generally understood Carol's characterization, whether or not they liked her.
I'm harsher on this re-read than I was the first time, now that I'm recontextualizing with her upcoming boot in mind. Due to that, my interpretation of certain choices is a bit more cynical, and it's harder to shrug off the parts I dislike.
Two issues again, because her first appearance in Avengers (1963) is after this.
Feel free to take this image and just put whatever the hell you want in those thought/speech bubbles.
Key topics:
Check-ins with the Cast of Ms. Marvel (1977)
Wanda ♡ & Beast
Cool fights
Check-ins with the Cast of Ms. Marvel (1977):
Mike
enjoy this new fill in the blank via blatant panel manipulation. you get to decide what the hell Mike is saying
Carol: No Steady Girls for me, either, chum. Salia just blew up. :(
The real fill-in the blank is: Mike asks Carol what Kree was used as the template for her Kree memories; I think it's pretty explicitly Mar-Vell, people have addressed him in her memories. Also Mike calls her "babe".
He's less interesting here than in his last appearance, where he was drinking alone, head in hands, and pondering medical ethics.
Tabitha.
I was waiting to introduce Tabitha until after she had more of a purpose. Jonah stuck Carol with her, knowing she would be a subpar employee, to which Carol assured Tracy that maybe Tabitha will "work out" fine. So far, not yet.
"Shut the fuck up Frank, you're just out of shape." I like how Carol speaks to this man, it's always very abrasive lol.
More of Carol's very direct nature. She's calm, but does not dispense any bullshit or tact.
Frank.
These above scene is from the previous issue-- Carol's office gets burglarized, and Frank recognizes the burglar.
Fuckin' Frank.
He tells Carol he knows exactly who burglarized her office, has Carol meet with the police officer, and then makes Carol watch as he lies to her face. Couldn't have given her a heads up, man?
Anyway, Ballard (burglar) was this bigshot dude in the CIA, and Frank lied to the cops so he could investigate him himself.
Carol sends him off with a casual, "OK Frank. Don't die, I guess."
Also, Carol hates the CIA. (Based)
Carol
I live alone -- and plan to stay that way-- so I don't need all that much.
Carol gets an apartment! Huge but in need of some TLC. $300 rent in 1978 is about $1,550 today. Not sure how accurate the price Claremont made up for this issue was in NYC at the time, but assuming it is accurate: ...rrrrhhgghhghhhhhh!
Anyway. Carol lock that price in man, rent control, and try not to mysteriously vanish off the face of the earth anytime soon.
Wanda & Beast
Carol stumbles upon Tiger Shark's plot to kidnap Nita, and runs to Avengers mansion for assistance. Beast assumes she's an intruder, and starts a fight.
Ooh a point for the achievement tracker: she got angry and punched Beast through a window.
She even admits to losing her temper in the last panel, while she's giving Wanda the flirty eyes. A rare smile from Carol, there.
"Just like that, you barge in off the street and-- based on your word alone-- ask us to trust you?"
"Yes."
"I see. And, I think I will."
The start of Carol & Wanda's relationship!! Wanda is one of the most important characters in comics to Carol, up there with Jess Drew and Wolverine, imo. She was missing for a while, but they've begun to interact more again.
Wanda CAN fly, for the record. Not the first time Carol's princess carried her, anyway.
(Star (2020))
There's this really funny montage where Carol does science at the Avengers' lab; it's funny because she never ever does anything with chemistry or gadgetry again, as far as I recall. She loves physics, though.
She brought her coffee... and look at that middle panel.
[Here's a really fun ship manifesto on livejournal from 2010, breaking down their whole history up to that point.]
I got into CM well after my livejournal days, but I loved looking for old fansites when I was into BtVS and have tried to do the same for comics. I've found* a few good ones, but not as many as I'd like.
*[CHECK OUT THIS ONE] Oldschool.
And of course, regardless of people shipping them or not, they have an extremely fun relationship. Their friendship over time is extremely intense and full of tragedy and guilt; a very good time.
Cool Fights
One of Carol's special abilities is explicitly "judo-throw". It comes up a lot, and they always either call it that, or mention her using her opponents' strength against them. I think it's meant to express that a woman could hold her own against men, even if she's physically smaller.
(We saw her and Salia practicing their Judo Throws together...)
| "There must be an easier way to live my life."
[All her life, Carol Danvers has thought of other people before herself-- the trait's become as natural to her as breathing-- and more than once it's gotten her into trouble.
Tonight, it may have cost her her life.]
What trouble do you think Carol's gotten into as a result of helping other people? Fun to ponder.
She's the oldest sibling (for now), so it's sweet to think that might be why she's a protective person.
Also, Carol spends a lot of time being surprised that she's still alive. I guess she hasn't realized how durable she is, and is always moving the line on what she thinks she can survive. "Grenade, huh? Get out."
Pretty sure this was Mystique, and sure enough, this comic is listed as her first appearance. Fun fact, this is her first appearance. Mystique was originally a Ms. Marvel villain before anything else, and we will see a lot of her.
Reading her wiki... Namorita is a clone of her mother, Namora, who is the cousin of Namor. ........She goes by Nita, understandably.
"The irony is, all Shark needs to do to beat me is simply swim away.
I'd drown long before I could reach the surface.
I'm as good as dead already-- but for Nita I've got to keep fighting.
I still have about a minute left ... got to hit the pressure points on Tiger Shark's neck, cut off the flow of blood to his brain."
This is an awesome scene. Carol's submerged at the bottom of the ocean, and knows she will drown before she can possibly get to the surface. Still, she keeps fighting Tiger Shark, trying to kill him in the final minutes before she dies, to protect Nita.
Really excellent. Hi Carol ily.
Fortunately, Nita pulls her unconscious body from the ocean, and gets her medical attention. This sort of thing will happen again to her, by Jessica Drew (Avengers Annual #10).
(Captain Marvel (2019) #8)
Review: Women!
My favorite part of these issues was Carol trying to strangle Tiger Shark to death before she died, cold and deep in the ocean, wishing to see the sun one last time.
And all to save a cool (teenage??) girl, which is a noble cause to die for.
Also, the first appearance of Mystique, and Carol's first meeting with Wanda! And what a good meeting.
Hulk, Strange, & Valkyrie (~accomplice to his murder, sex, sex?)
Hellcat / Patsy Walker / Trish Walker (JJ)
Mike Barnett!!
Written by Chris Claremont.
Hulk, Strange, & Valkyrie
Carol has a unique relationship to all of these people eventually:
Hulk: Involved in his death during an abysmal plotline and took a lot of heat for it in-universe
Dr. Strange: Had regrettable sex with in recent-ISH comics (2021)
Valkyrie: had pretty good sex with in the movies, if you ask some people. (more of a CarolMaria girl myself, but I respect the femslash)
Hellcat / Patsy Walker / Trish Walker
Carol is always carrying women, it rules. [Link 1] [Link 2]
"Wow! I recognize her, Ky--- I mean, Nighthawk. Sorry.
She was on the cover of "Woman" Magazine's first issue. They called her the "Super-Hero Sensation of the Seventies!
'Course, they probably didn't know about the Hellcat."
It was rigged, Hellcat.
And speaking of Carol's unique tie to certain characters...
To this day, Carol and Patsy have barely interacted again in-(616)-universe*, so they don't have much of an interpersonal relationship, but the character of Trish Walker on the MCU show Jessica Jones was based heavily off of both of them, ending in a blended, third character mostly-bearing Patsy's name.
In the comics, Carol is Jessica Jones' best friend, but they weren't allowed to use her for the show. Regardless, Trish looks like Carol, she generally acts like Carol, she's currently a wealthy & successful journalist, but had a difficult life before. She can sometimes push too far past the line, but her motives are rooted in wanting to have control of her life and wanting to protect other people. (They also dress her in a red, blue, and gold suit as an easter egg at some point. )
Carol is also, pointedly, another woman who (similar to Jessica) has had experiences with both sexual assault and addiction. That's not true of Patsy in the comics (to my knowledge), but it is true of Trish.
(I really like Trish...)
'* Sensational She-Hulk (2023) #4-5, one of the Hopeless Spider-Woman issues...
Mike Barnett!!
Mike Barnett!! Here to remind us that he is unequivocally Carol's psychiatrist and that he wants to date her.
I was actually kind of excited to see him here, he always has some new development relating to the ongoing medical ethics violation.
AIM is back! They've kidnapped Mike Barnett to learn information about Carol Danvers, his patient. Hypnotized, Mike recounts her 7th-sense dream, and they mistake it for Carol's (assumed) worst fear: being killed by the Hulk. Delighted, they scheme to get Hulk to kill Carol, as revenge for bringing SHIELD to their door earlier.
Ultimately, AIM's finagling is discovered, and Mike is freed, coming to in a room full of superheroes.
Review: An infinitely more discussable comic 48 years later
It aged well, this comic, ripe with fun facts. I enjoyed Mike being here a lot; for a man that I don't personally like, he sure is fun to have on page. I don't feel the same about Frank, but we'll see as he appears more.
By all the Gods, could it be--
-- that she truly doesn't know the truth about herself?!"
Look man it can be hard to figure some kinds of stuff out about yourself in 1977....
"Think a moment. The answer's obvious if you'd only open your eyes to see.
Look within yourself, Carol-- and know the truth. For it will truly set you free."
...🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
"I feel giddy and alive. Floating on a cloud, for the first time in months, I feel like a whole, sane person!"
Depression cured, Carol just needed to embrace some truths about who she is....🏳️🌈....
Thank you to this tall, beautiful woman in heavy makeup and voluminous hair for helping Carol find herself.
(Carol was going to kill her moments before, but they're cool now.)
"I've seen you smile-- genuinely smile-- more today than in the past year."
After this beautiful revelation about herself, Therapist Boyfriend Mike tells Carol he's literally never seen her genuinely smile as much as she is now. (She only moved to NYC about a year ago.)
Anyway, from this point on, the split between Carol & Ms. Marvel is officially retconned. They're the same person, and Carol can access her Kree memories (whatever those are supposed to be) and powers herself.
Carol's Parents
This is Marie Danvers, later retconned to be (secretly) Kree, making Carol half-Kree from birth. Her personality over time reads as evolving but still very consistent to me, up until exactly this moment:
which I could live with except like every image of Marie we glimpse after this has her in this outfit so the reader doesn't forget she's Kree.
"This handsome, irreverent brute is Mike Barnett. Part-time psychiatrist, full-time friend."
Man, Mike fucking sucks. Part-time psychiatrist, part-time boyfriend. How do you you think they started "hanging out"? Did Mike slip her is number after a session where Carol opened up about her recent bout of depression?
Mike is a psychiatrist, an MD, meaning his job is to prescribe specific treatment plans and medication. He did hypnotism once.
Do you think Carol takes anti-depressants? I've always liked that her mental health is not great, I think it's a fun character trait. Despite her momentary relief, it will continue to not be great, for a myriad of reasons.
Your father wouldn't be caught dead reading "Woman". Unless, of course, Jonah Jameson gets some "sense"--
--and turns the magazine over to a MAN."
Our first introduction to Carol's dad is that he's so sexist that he barely tolerates an issue of his daughter's own magazine in his house. Mike is understandably shocked by her mother's casual recounting of a rather mean comment he made.
It's later established that Carol carries some anger at her mother for putting up with her dad like this, instead of leaving him or holding him accountable for his awful presence in Carol & her brothers' lives.
When we first meet her dad in person, Joe Danvers is heroically saving a member of his construction crew from falling to his death. He's a multi-faceted, beefy man.
"What every dutiful daughter should, i guess.
Looking out for her old man.
Ha!"
Carol saves Joe from being killed by falling beams, herself struck hard in the process. Her dad walks away without checking to see if she's alright.
Joe's got a temper. Carol's inherited it, hence the "times she's angrily punched someone" category on the achievement tracker.
The panels in the current issue give a solid implication, but Joe is later confirmed by Claremont to be physically abusive.
[Uncanny X-Men (1963) #164]
Pacing around Boston, expositing about her dad, Carol hears footprints, belonging to.......
What The Fuck? Dracula??
Dracula is gone after this, which is just as confusing as Dracula appearing in the first place.
"Sorry, Dad-- but that's something you've had coming for a long time anyway!"
Seconds within interacting with him anonymously, Carol hits her father, knocking him unconscious. Must have been very therapeutic.
Does this count for the achievement tracker? I don't think she had to knock the man unconscious, lmao, and she is clearly angry. Counting it!
The art got less good here.
I automatically interpreted Carol's "all of a sudden, I don't care" as being like, "fuck this guy, it's never going to be enough", but it's occurring to me that maybe she made peace with his behavior.
Marie stops Ms. Marvel to reveal that she knows it's Carol.
Post-retcon, she would have recognized the Hala symbol right off the bat; she's pretty calm about her daughter suddenly wearing the symbol of her oppressive, home planet's military.
Bonus:
Mike's not actually her boyfriend at the moment, but they do go on outings that they do call dates, and kiss cheeks and such. It's more overt than flirting. Carol tends to date "casually"; it's fun that that characterization started so early.
Review: Mom And Dad, I'm Gay And Also Stronger Than Both Of You, So Don't Try Any Shit
Congrats to Carol for discovering some traits about herself... may she continue to do so...
Interesting enough first look at her parents; Carol's attempting to maintain a relationship, but it frustrates her to do so with her father, and her mother doesn't seem to begrudge his faults.
Plotwise, the stuff with Joe was pretty interesting, and the robots on the ship not very interesting.
My goal is to cover as many narratively cohesive issues as I can in one post, but in this case that's... 2. These were pretty action packed, and there's a solid shift at the beginning of the next issue.
Key topics:
Goons
Carol vs Ms Marvel (vs Esmeralda)
The horrors of Ms Marvel making Carol look incompetent
Hecate (Baddie of the week)
Carol's love of space‧ ₊˚✩ ⏾ ✩˚₊‧
Carol's love of Salia ♡
Goons
We open with some goons. I liked them, so some panels:
Goons reminding us of the proper pronunciation of Ms. ("Miz"). Carol trounces them. "Come to Mama."
She also mentions around here that she is not bulletproof; her post-Brood powerset is in fact bulletproof, but apparently not yet. Not sure how she knows, though. Maybe she's been nicked by shrapnel.
Ms. Marvel threatens to crumple a man into a human ball, successfully freeing a hostage. A decisive victory, against all but her alter ego......
Carol vs Ms. Marvel (vs. Esmeralda)
Ms Marvel "drops Carol off" on the roof at work, in her nightclothes. They're still talking about each other like different people, but they mostly share a memory, and can even remember the other's sentiments, if not their active thoughts. Carol gets to live this hell again with Rogue someday, although the line between them less clear and variably permeable.
She wills Ms. Marvel back easily enough, sending her to fly back to the hotel she's been living in after her apartment fire. Ms. Marvel arrives to find Esmeralda, the housekeeper, already cleaning the room. She sneaks Carol into the bathroom, sticking her with just a truly horrifying social interaction.
Carol, ex-spy, bluffs her way through it well enough. She has bad social skills at times, in the... well, social category, but the woman's confidence is tremendous, so she can get through basically any kind of challenging communication alive, at least.
Carol looking fucking stupid is a big theme in this series
The true horror of Ms. Marvel (1977) is how often Carol is perceived badly or judged by other people due to forces out of her control (disability metaphor?). Thanks to Ms. Marvel's antics and Carol's medical issues related to the change, Carol has been:
Disappearing from work in the middle of the day, for hours
Showing up late to work
Fainting in front of people and/or suddenly yelling in pain
Ending interactions mid-conversation because she's in blinding pain
Investigated by NASA for disappearing on their base
Chastised by a SHIELD contact for wasting his time
Forgetting important life and work events (abandoning a date, forgetting a work trip)
Escorted out of her burned apartment building by the police
I'm not going to count Tracy watching her almost beat a man to death, because I think Tracy thought that was awesome.
"Carol, oh Carol. Keep playing the no-show editor and your magazine's had it.
Your magazine... and me."
(Some of the panels in this section are from the issues before this, but I didn't want to fit this section into 2 separate reviews.)
"...Like part o' me wants to see things blow up in your face.
Then you'd be out, an' I'd be boss. I think I'd rather be dead."
(I love Tracy.)
She reminds Carol that she's got a business trip, even packing her a bag, grousing about the whole thing the second she's out the door. Testy but caring is a character trait that stays with her in future appearances.
Captain Marvel (2012) #1
(for the record, Carol wouldn't have raised the office temperature because she doesn't get her energy powers until after the Brood.)
In addition to being difficult to work with for reasons that are not in her control, Carol is difficult to work for for reasons all her own. She loses her temper often, chewing people out and raising her voice.
Carol being an asshole; Tracy finds some humor in it because she is also an assholish woman.
A lot of this is resulting from stress, but losing her temper in a bad way is a pretty consistent character trait forever. It's probably still stress. I think she's just almost always stressed.
Hecate (Baddie of the week)
Quickly noting the main plot of issue #12 -- This is Hecate and her boys, the Elementals. At times, they take up entire pages amongst themselves, and their presence was kind of jarring to me.
Hecate introduces herself as Dark Angel, a title Claremont gives to Jessica Drew later on. Jessica's first appearance was in 1977, the same year as Carol's first comic as a superheroine, and her first solo series was a year later. Looks like Claremont took over her series at issue #20, in 1979. We're currently at the end of the year 1977.
Carol's love of space ‧₊˚✩ ⏾ ✩˚₊‧
"Hey I've got a great idea -- want to come along for the ride?"
"More than anything."
We will later learn it was Carol's dream job to be an astronaut. She got near it, previously employed at NASA (as Chief of Security), but her encounters with Captain Marvel killed her old career.
"When I was a teenager, I hitchhiked to Cape Canaveral to watch an Apollo launch. My dad whaled the tar outta me, but it was worth it; I wanted so badly to be an astronaut -- to explore space, discover new worlds, alien civilizations.
As Ms. Marvel, I almost made it."
............This was later retconned, for some reason. I really like that Carol didn't ever manage to achieve her dreams before becoming a superhero, it was a fun part of her backstory.
The visual was just this one flashback montage, so I'm deciding it was a daydream and non-canon. Or after Carol was already a superhero, she borrowed a ship and a suit. Yearning for a dream you'll only achieve under twisted and unexpected circumstances 4eva.
Carol's love of Salia ♡
Carol and Salia are very close and touchy. It's cute.
Carol's relationships with women and Wolverine (and sometimes Tony) have always been more compelling than the random guys they often give her. So far, comparing Therapist/Boyfriend Mike and Astronaut/Sparring Partner Salia, I know who I like more. ¯\_('_')_/¯
Just some panels that mean nothing... Carol taking a shower at Salia's place and calling dibs on buying her dinner as soon as she gets back. :)
Random fun fact, Sally Ride, famous female astronaut was gay (good for Sally Ride). Salia actually pre-dates Sally going to space, so if anyone inspired anyone to be gay and in space I guess it would be Salia -> Sally. That's probably true.
"The second image brings Carol aboard -- and her foreseeing dream becomes a nightmare....
...
As pure and intense as that of a new-born star reaching the core of Salia Petrie's being and turning her soul inside out."
Carol receives a vision of Salia's horrible death via her 7th sense. Extremely distraught, she desperately tries to keep control of her body so that Ms. Marvel doesn't abandon Salia to die, but to no avail.
Ms. Marvel takes over forcibly, confirming that she has no intention to help Salia, with the greater threat being a risk to more than only Salia's life.
Carol fights back all the while, hatred seeping through their shared-personhood.
If Ms. Marvel is a metaphor for Carol trying to escape her past, this is Carol hating herself for knowing what problem she needs to prioritize.
[A tale of two women, we called this -- a tale of triumph and tragedy, of death... and now, of madness, born of pain and grief... and hate...]
"Damn you, Hecate! You and Ms. Marvel both! Because of you two, my best friend is dead!
Well, I hold your precious Skarab now-- and before I'm done, you'll pay for Salia Petrie's murder-- WITH YOUR LIVES!"
Finally, Carol, enraged with grief, wrests control from Ms. Marvel, vowing to kill Hecate with the powerful object the Elementals were fighting over.
The issue ends.
Review: Owgh Salia... Agh Elementals. Ooh Hecate.
Carol kicks ass in these issues; it's the first time I've really appreciated her and Ms. Marvel acting as different people. Still excited for the split to end after this, though.
Salia was suuuch a good part of all of this!! It was sweet watching her interact with Carol so... intimately (Carol playing with the little piece of her suit...).
In the whole of Carol's comic history, there are not a lot of people she cares about that she met before her first appearance. There's Wolverine, Salia... Michael Rossi.... and notably rare family interactions. As of current day, the list really drops to just Wolverine, but I'd love if people remembered Carol was close to Salia.
Salia's life being at risk was real stakes, and I loved Carol's fear for her friend and resulting rage. Excited to see the rest of this plotline play out; I remember it being fun.
The actual villains themselves are not my favorite, this issue. Hecate is fun by default, but the Elementals were not very interesting imo, and they took up a lot of pagetime on their own in a way that I wasn't very interested in, what with the more interesting Salia threat occurring simultaneously. I get it, Carol.
I'm glad Jess is here. I wish they would give her her baby back. That's what Carol should be investigating with her in this comic.
Jess yells Carol's full title when she gets zapped. I don't know why; she saved so much time with "Car" earlier. It's cute that there's an attempt at a nickname, but I try to say "Car" aloud in my head and it never sounds right. Why not "Kirk"?
Funny and in character. Fun movement in the art.
In issue #1 (which I have not reviewed yet), Jess mentions having a spidey-sense (she does not) and also her apartment looked too clean, so I am evaluating her appearances here very critically. (I'm distracted by Jess appearances post-Big-Anthonyed Gerry in general.)
Anyway I'll take more Jess if they want to keep including her. I'm thrilled that she and Carol pretty consistently come as a set these days.
Whump
For those unaware, whump is when your favorite character gets the shit kicked out of them, and it rules.
Pretty good whump 👍
Eric Danvers
This is apparently Carol's cousin, Eric. He tells Carol he knew her dad before she was born.
"We were taught to hate 😈... to be as strong as our purity 👼. ... Your father knew this to be true. He knew his place, and he knew his race. 🏁
And he destroyed it all by marrying Paloma, an Argentine 🇦🇷 Immigrant. ❌
That woman -- the mother of your two half-breed brothers -- was an an act of rebellion against our cause. That was dear Uncle Joey's greatest betrayal. 😔
Now imagine: what was grandmother supposed to do? Ours was a movement based on purity of the blood. Clearly, the Argentine had to go. 🚗"
OK well. A lot going on there but:
If they had scaled this down to specific issues and not the exaggerated actions of a supervillain org, this could have been meaningful, but alas.
Seeing as Joe's most established canon quality was being extremely misogynistic, Joe being not racist seems like the retcon here to me. Or more likely, by introducing Joe's Ultra Racist Family, we are now able to view Joe as being Not That Racist, by comparison. Carol, you should be grateful that your abusive father was not AS racist and misogynistic as he could have been.
Life of Captain Marvel (2018) retconned Carol's brothers as both being older than her, and also as being her half brothers. Presumably so we didn't have to deal with superhero JJ Danvers. Their mother was not really elaborated on, so this issue closes that open thread.
(Originally Carol was oldest, then middle, now youngest.)
Eric is angry that Joe left him alone with his abusive grandma. Eric seems all-in on the racism, but does hate her.
It actually reminded me of Joe Jr in Life of Captain Marvel (2018). Overall, I have some pointed issues with the comic, but there were definitely pieces I liked, including this scene.
Carol has kept her distance from her family in adulthood; she enlists in the AF "without a word to her parents, or a backwards glance", and when she comes to see her dying father, she has not seen them in years.
It's reasonable, to me, that Joe Jr would hold some resentment for that. It bothers me that he's older than her now, for a lot of reasons, but one is that it was always kind of sad that Carol disconnected from her little brother when she left their abusive home. Pre-LoCM, Joe Sr was already established as physically abusive, and JJ was years younger than Carol was, so after Steve was killed off, it would have been just JJ at home with his parents, suddenly losing both of his siblings around the same time. Could have been interesting to explore more.
Not only "scold the wicked girl for something you imagine her father did".... she doesn't even LIKE her father. That could come up more explicitly.
Anyway, Eric is like Joe Jr but worse, and Joe Jr was already kind of wasted potential. We'll see how it goes.
Bonus:
Explosion! The lightning bolt suit again. I actually have seen it drawn well occasionally in the past, and I don't hate it, but the amount of ass and tit shots in Ms. Marvel (2006) means that it has to go up on a high shelf for all but the most trustworthy of artists. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I like time shenanigans when they unveil or explore meaningful aspects of a character that they would never tell you outright... good when handled by a good writer....... anyway new issue next month.
Review: Frustratingly ungrounded; Whumpy at least
It was great in Ms. Marvel (1977) when misogyny and the Women's Lib movement was a recurring topic; what made it impactful was that it was actually progressive for its time, and challenging current social norms.
The issue with new narratives about exaggerated supervillains spouting old-timey racism is that it fails to challenge current social norms, and so it ends up not really saying much, while still positing itself as an anti-racist story. Just like how a lot of Captain Marvel stuff over the years has been frustratingly shallow Girl-Power stuff without including any modern, progressive feminism.
This takes place between issues #10 and #11 in Ms. Marvel (1977).
(Carol actually appears in #61 as well, but it's only for a brief moment, included in the panel collage below.)
This issue was written by Chris Claremont, the author of Carol's ongoing at the time.
"Off on a ten-day Caribbean cruise ... Carol Danvers ... grabbing a brief, well-earned vacation."
Man, I wish 10 days was considered a brief vacation.
Spidey has been stalling a Super-Skrull, hoping the Avengers will come by for an assist soon. Carol manages to sneak away, joining him in the fight as Ms. Marvel:
Among with the usual violent impulses Ms. Marvel carries, that seem to originate from Mar-Vell, Carol has gained an unwanted hatred for Skrulls.
Do you think when Rogue absorbed Carol and had her in her mind, there was an even smaller Mar-Vell in Carol's mind, like a matryoshka doll?
Carol is distracted by the super-skrull's highly destructive Cavourite crystal (a current plot point in her series), and gets punted into the Statue of Liberty....
Which happens to be her home in 36 real earth years [Earth-1218, apparently]:
No, really... It was given to her by J Jonah Jameson, her now-boss, future Mayor, in front of her (1977)-coworkers Tracy Burke and Frank Gianelli.
KSD definitely read Ms. MARVEL (1977). I wish more writers were overtly into her Uncanny X-Men run.
Anyway, Spider-Man catches her, mistaking Carol for then-Captain Marvel, Mar-Vell.
Ms. Marvel and Spider-Man introduce themselves, and Peter agrees to follow a risky plan she's devised to stop the Super-Skrull, leading him lower into the ship to minimize danger to the passengers.
"Briefly, Captain, Spider-Man and I are trying to stop one of the deadliest menaces our world has ever known. And if I have to sacrifice my life, Spidey's life, your ship, and your passengers to stop the Skrull, Captain-- I'LL DO IT!"
Some great character-establishing moments for Carol. Carol would pull the lever in the trolley problem, immediately.
Beautiful. The style of comics is quite different nowadays in a way I generally prefer, but the art is often very striking in these old issues. I also love the shot of her holding the gem, below.
Carol is ready to die for the cause, surprised that she survived the encounter after. And she does her best to keep Spidey safe in the plan.
We end with a fractioned shot of Carol witnessing a million facets of herself, with a note telling us to read more in her ongoing, Ms. Marvel (1977). On we go.
Review: Fun character development, and some pretty art. Hi Spider-Man, good luck with your finals.
Enjoyed seeing the earliest moments of Carol's very Utilitarianism-based way of thinking, which I'd say is a pretty important aspect of her characterization.
Oh, I'm sorry. This was supposed to be a date, not a therapy session.
Boo, Mike. It feels weird to call Carol a vulnerable person (and she would be insulted lol), but there is a reason that therapists are not meant to date their patients. At this point in the comic, Carol has recently been forced out of a job that meant a lot to her, had some major health issues and memory problems, and has been experiencing "periods of depression".
Not to mention that based on information we learn about her under Claremont, she almost definitely already suffers from PTSD.
lmao Mike KNOWS she's Ms. M and she still just ditches him "without a word". ("Sure, Mike.")
I actually love this shot of her scaling a cliff and crawling under a fence in her bathing suit. And in the last panel there, Carol giving her qualified opinion as NASA's ex-Chief of Security.
Pictured: Carol kissing her... teacher??
"Colonel Michael Rossi, USAF. Carol had been Air Force, too, in those days. Rossi had been teacher, friend... lover."
Not sure what their professional relationship was, but leading with "teacher" before friend or...... lover is... uh, something. We will see more of Michael Rossi.
Anyway, Carol's apartment burns down. I would be more upset over the manuscripts she said burned; I'd be a puddle. Holy hell.
Side note: Carol has a hard time keeping a home, historically. Off the top of my head: leaving her parents house "without a word", the fire in this issue, in her upcoming Avengers run she suddenly abandons her apartment, Rogue attacks her at home in SF and she never returns, leaving the X-Men mansion, her apartment gets destroyed in Ms Marvel (2006), she gets evicted during the KSD era, she leaves Alpha Flight and has to share a room with Gerry Drew (baby)..... there's probably another instance.
Frank is the most normal, but Carol doesn't actually like him so that doesn't matter. Maybe if you'd been HER boss, Frank. Ha ha. Sorry, Carol.
So close to adding a "punches someone she shouldn't" point to the pinned-post scoreboard, but Frank wisely got the fuck out of there.
I liked the flow of this sequence; we transition immediately from a scene with SHIELD to Frank rolling up, then we're interrupted by AIM.
In addition to her date with Mike, we see Carol on another date, with this random guy. It was probably pretty progressive of Carol to be non-exclusively dating multiple men in short order, in 1977.
A lot happens after this scene, so Carol pretty much just leaves this man here and forgets about him. Maybe if you'd been her Doctor or something, Paul. Ha ha. Sorry, Carol. Try dating better men. Or Salia.
Tracy Burke!!
In #8, we meet Tracy Burke, the most relevant of Carol's supporting cast from this series. She returns first in Iron Man (1998), then in Captain Marvel (2012), and then in Captain Marvel (2014).
(I did a quick fact-check to make sure I didn't forget any appearances, and apparently she also makes a cameo in Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man (1976) #21, as Ms. Marvel's hype-man.)
We're introduced to Tracy as a recovering alcoholic...
And her next appearance, after Ms Marvel (1977), is in Iron Man (1998), during Carol's arc where she is struggling with alcoholism. Pictured is issue #11, but she appears before this as well.
Interesting note: Jameson refers to Tracy in these issues as "Miss Burke", indicating she's unmarried, and Carol uses her own preferred "Ms. Burke".
Carol is more correct (being neutral), because, as we learn in Captain Marvel (2014) #15... Tracy was married! (To a woman, named Teddy; we can assume Tracy was not out at work.)
It's fun they made Tracy masc. I like her younger design a lot.
So to recap, we learn Tracy was an alcoholic in (1977), that Carol is an alcoholic in (1998). Then we learn Tracy was gay in (2014) and we learn that Carol is-- (oh what she's not out? ok nvm) uhm, completely straight I guess.
Killing and Maiming
OK new analogy: Ms. Marvel represents Carol pretending to be a normal person for the first time in her entire adult life, after a lifetime of violence.
We will learn, under Claremont, that Carol worked closely with Wolverine for many years, a man whose catchphrase is: "I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do best isn't very nice."
(She says something to a similar effect at some point, but I can't remember which issue (in Uncanny X-Men?).)
Really, really fun fight sequence. Carol slips very easily back into her old line of work. She's like a retired badass from an action movie.
The explanation here, of course, is that Ms. Marvel's absorbed Kree training is taking over, but speaking of Carol's own experience, Nick Fury is referenced in issue #8:
Carol has worked with Fury and SHIELD in the past, which is not yet revealed to us, but is probably why she has this connection to SHIELD in the first place.
Tracy watches as Carol singlehandedly takes out 2 very dangerous men, and almost beats one to death. Then Tracy reports for her first day of work, on Monday. 🫡 I bet she had a fun story to tell Teddy when she got home.
Grotesk appears again, and Carol judo-throws him into a laser, exploding him. Grotesk is not seen again for another 10 years in real-world time, after this. Carol, at minimum, believes she killed him, and is upset that it came to that, but the comic's reference to "another universe / dimension" leaves an out for him surviving the encounter.
I may make a tracker at some point for the number of times Carol explicitly kills 1 or more people. Tracking the number of people would be inaccurate and laborious, but instances is doable. Would I count this one?
I'd say a death still counts even if a future series retcons them to be alive again (eg the Master), but this is a bit open-ended. Though Carol thinks he's dead, so maybe.
So far, she's almost killed: the Scorpion, a bar thug, MODOK, & Grotesk. Deathbird almost dies, but it's not Carol's fault. She ends issue #10 by threatening to kill MODOK for real this time.
There were a ton of super cool fights in these issues, so I want to pause and appreciate them a little.
Carol says fuck Ms. Marvel (her "cursed Kree alter-ego"), and tries to take out Deathbird on her own. Carol then refers to her OWN "skills, training, value", separate from Ms. M, and that she nearly allowed herself to be "taken like an amateur".
She does manage to impress Deathbird, who calls her "worthy", but Ms. Marvel takes over forcibly, worried Carol will get them killed.
P.S. we see Deathbird again, over the years; she's in Carol's kind of weakly-established rogues gallery. Pictured above is an appearance in the Starjammers (while Carol is on the team as Binary) and in Captain Marvel (2012).
Last note just to capture the parallel: Carol plays dead in issues #8 and #9.
Villains don't underestimate her much these days, but there have been fun moments over the years where she's taken advantage of them doing so; I can't find the cap rn, but there's a good moment in one of the New Avengers runs where a villain blasts her, taunting her for being the one who has to take a painful hit for the team. He's pretty surprised that she's more than fine, afterwards, and she takes him out.
Review: Would recommend for really fun fight scenes!
#8 is my favorite issue so far: Carol kicking ass in the bar & almost beating a man to death in front of a writing inspiration of hers (Tracy!!), scaling a wall in her bathing suit, and yelling at Frank Gianelli is a great combo.
