Idk if I'm more excited for there to be zero sexual chemistry between man and wife, or for there to be palpable sexual chemistry between Arthur and Faroe. I really don't. I win no matter what
is it mean of me to say that it reallyyyyy pmo that every time I refresh charlie dowd’s tag on ao3 it’s just like. 90% smut or explicit every single time. and if it’s not smut then it’s joelthur
As the queen of mean: mean, yes, but mostly just pathetic. You know that your own fic is not worth reading, so you're trying to manipulate good writers into producing content that tickles your specific fancy re: your individual relationship to sex. Ew.
As for me, I don't care about your character analysis, and I enjoy that you're "pissed off" about this.
So as annoying as this disclaimer is every single time, it bears repeating: People should ship what they want. My vague frustration that the unlimited free content on a fandom website features a character I don't like does not mean i think that people should stop making it. This isnt like a DNI thing. I don't want people to think that the size of this post is representative of my level of distaste. I just love talking about my relationships to art and have a tendency to write big dumb essays.
This is not meant to convince anyone, and if you're in danger of having the ship ruined for you i'd actually suggest not reading this at all. We're all playing dolls on the internet here theres no way to be 'right'.
Negative nellying under the cut
Part I - The Ick
Arguably the only valid reason. It gives me the ick. Makes my skin crawl. I don't like it.
The reasons why are a combination of ace feelings and fandom wank that I'll explain better later, but the important part is how it makes me feel. A very minor ick.
The problem with very minor icks, however, is that they become larger the more you're exposed to the icky thing. Joelthur is pretty popular and most of the recent E rated uploads involve Noel. What starts as a 'hm! Not for me!' turns into a 'we need to find noel in threshold so we can finish the job.' I've actually scrapped bits of art I made early on for Joelthur back when i was feeling more positively towards it.
I've posted vaguely about this before but I could feel my ire towards Noel growing In Real Time the longer I spent in the fandom. While people expressing Whatever The Hell They Want in no way bothers me, its prevalence unavoidably starts to feel like its being shoved in your face. It isn't. I want to clarify that it isn't. This is all optional. But when most of the artists and writers I enjoy will inevitably post Joelthur and there is seemingly no corner of the fandom I can retreat to avoid it, it starts to feel suffocating.
You start to look for reasons to justify this feeling. Which leads me to:
Part II - Ace Blues
I am an aroace gob who has struggled all its life to establish meaningful connections whilst dodging the ever-expanding hydra that is romantic expectation. The society I live in is so baked around the presumption of romantic partnership that it is difficult to imagine belonging to a family unit without it. You have two options, live alone or have a partner. Children, long term cohabitation, joint finances, medical advocacy, they're all gatekept by romantic partnership. Building your life long term with a friend is considered a secondary option afforded to the pathetic. You are encouraged to abandon platonic partnerships the moment you want to fuck somebody else.
In real life, this is resolved through communication and queer expression. Finding that person in the ocean of allos who wants the same connection that you do.
But in fiction, I just like the fantasy of not having to have that conversation.
There is a level of intimacy that I've described before that comes with symbiosis. Having things that are private between you and your fleshmate that transcend romance and friendship at once. No one would ever expect for Jarthur to place romantic entanglements over each other. The biological reality of their situation avoids the hierarchy of relationships. John gets to be 'just a friend' but still occupy the unspoken security of a long-term partner.
Now Noel is in an interesting position in the show where he intentionally intrudes on that privacy in order to reach John. its a great moment! I liked it in the show! But what I didn't like is how so many people then jumped to romance and sexuality.
It just sorta feels like being emotionally vulnerable to a new friend and then they immediately lean in for a kiss. It feels sticky in the way romantic entanglements always do, that you can't express any affection, allow any intimacy, without worrying about a romantic interpretation.
I am especially repulsed by people who depict John as 'simping' for Noel because he's the one guy who has ever placed John's autonomy over Arthurs. I don't see anyone presuming that of Lilly, because people can accept that John is too new right now to make sense of these relationships. His love for people is fluid and ill defined, he didnt grow up like a human and these boundaries dont come naturally for him. Having him take a long time to untangle what his 'mother' and his best friend mean to him, but just intrinsically understand Noel as an object of sexual and romantic desire is normative in a way that irks me.
Part III - Jingling Keys and the Lack Thereof
Noel's the weakest part of season four and possibly my least favorite character overall.
I skirt around saying that so upfront because its you know. mean. But its kinda unavoidable in discussing my priorities. There is no moral or ick reason I hate Noel, he just that he fails to meet the requirements that I specifically need in order to care about a character:
Cohesion, challenge, and emotional reality.
An issue I had with Celia in TMAGP where her only sin was taking up a lot of screentime for a storyline that I've seen before. But at least Celia had something ive seen before. Noel is just a bunch of plot hooks that are dismissed as soon as they're introduced.
There is nothing that I could have learned about Noel I didn't prefer to be explored with Oscar. Oscar acts as aggregate towards the core point of conflict between John and Arthur in season 4. He forces John to look at himself and his situation in a way he hasn't before. He forces Arthur to reconsider his repulsion towards spirituality. Even when he is abandoned it is in a way that increases tension. Arthur suggests it out of his desperation to not acknowledge his suspicions, and John accepts it knowing that it wont help because he can't discuss the real root of the problem until they find the greystone.
The decision to leave Oscar behind is narratively dense and fascinating, then is immediately undercut in the next episode by Noel.
Not even 30 minutes later they have a new friend who means everything to them and this time! John doesn't mind him! Yayyy! The ways in which Arthur makes unreasonable sacrifices to put a band-aid on their situation is sidestepped. John being unable to verbalize his true feelings is sidestepped. The problem ISNT that their dynamic is frought with betrayal and codependency. They just fumbled that interaction specifically. If Arthur had just been upfront about John it would have been okay. So that means we can go back and befriend Oscar again right? Because we've acknowledged that it wasn't to do with him and John isnt even that mad at him? No? Aight. Whatever.
Now this would be fine if Noel was an interesting expansion of the seasons themes. If he represented some aspect of John and Arthur's failings like Oscar did. And I think they sooooort have tried that? Oscar acts as foil to Arthur in that he was abused by the same system but tries to use that system to improve the world he lives in. And John might act as foil to Noel because... uh. He's trapped? He suffered in the prison pits too? I guess?
The thing about Noel's backstory is that he's an unambiguous victim. He never hit bedrock the way John, Arthur, and Oscar have. Hell, even Marie killed her fucking husband, and expresses remorse about her pride having left her bored and lonely in her twilight years. They were all pushed by malevolent forces into acts of violence, and have to find a way to live their lives in a way they can be proud of despite what they've done.
The one thing that does give tension to Noel is that he doesnt know who John is. The kindness he offered to John was intended for someone else, just as the kindness offered by Lilly was intended for Arthur. This is something that will be addressed by John further on, and isn't supposed to be resolved until season 6. that people seem to only be able to love him as proxy for something else. the fear that his true self is inherently unlovable because of what he used to be is what pushes john to make his worst mistakes.
And then that's dismissed in a single line of dialog in the next episode. Dont worry kid. I understand. Not only am i not bothered about you being the elder god that ruined my life, but also im not mad you lied about it. It's not like I have any internality that makes this inconvenient to you. Its not like my experiences make this act of kindness a profound struggle like it would for every other important character in this show. It's not like im affected by my trauma in a way that matters.
I'm scared of the King in Yellow? Arthur tells me to get over it and I say ooookay. John doesnt want to kill the king in yellow now? My desire for revenge is dismissed as irrational I say oooookay. I find out the person i decided to trust WAS the fucking king in yellow? Again? No hard feelings. No hard anything.
It's hard to give a shit about a person who doesnt give a shit about anything. Like how will he shake up their dynamic if he bends like a reed about the only thing we're told is important to him? Nothing about Noel is sacred, he has no hard line he wont cross, so including him in the dynamic wont challenge them. He's just there to be a tragic sacrifice, to give John love shortly before being killed.
But then it turns out he's not dead actually, and has been promoted to Princess in Another Castle. We have to save our wife! She's so good and beautiful and doesnt exist outside of what she makes us feel! No one refuses to take up space like she does! We'll never find someone so convenient again!
I guess its equality? Noel feels like a sexy lamp despite being an older gruff male character. Ive spoken to people who actually like that about him as a subversion, which i respect, but its not enough to be compelling to me. I hope he stays missing until the very last episode of threshold so we dont have to actually talk to him.
Part IV - Fandom Wank
This one's just stupid.
Its inevitable that every character will undergo a smoothing in fanon. They will either be dismissed by fans who dont really think about them that much, or actively defended by fans who relate a lot. This is not only fine, its what makes fandom fun! Every piece of fan content is like a question towards the original. I like asking questions. I like reading my friend's answers.
But when you do this to a character who I don't think is even that textured in the first place, there's nothing left over. Fandom Noel is similar to Fandom Georgie in that he's relegated to being the Mom Friend. The one with the braincel. The guy they talk to in the fic to help resolve their misunderstandings.
And again, thats fine. It's okay to not care a lot about Noel, I don't care a lot about noel, but it then is baffling to me when the author tries to sell him as a romantic option anyway.
I can't really imagine Jarthur being happy in a relationship with someone whose just better than them. Noel's role in this throuple would just be to validate their eccentricities and micromanage their dynamic. It sometimes reads as wish fulfillment, the author wanting to give Jarthur the support they'd need to become the best versions of themselves, but that does leave Noel as the only adult in his relationship. I've been told that this was a thing in homestuck tho, so its prevalence across fandom is probably a feature not a bug. Still. It reminds me too much of when my aceness delegated me to being the 'orgy butler' to my ex nesting partner, so it makes me uncomfortable.
And then thers the sort of uncomfortable accusation that it does not escape my notice that there was an uptic in Joelthur immediately following John's decision to give up on having his own body.
There was a lot of bickering about Jarthur being romantic vs platonic while the the show was running. Fans crying 'queerbait' as if them physically having romantic sex is the only way for it to be queer. But then the moment the show expressed its intention of depicting Jarthur as a united entity, fans fell over themselves to find someone for that entity to be monogamously gay married with. The goalposts just shifted.
Its that same kind of suffocation i mentioned earlier. That we always need to have two bodies and wedding rings and missionary sex in their double bed every friday night. How are we supposed to explore this dynamic as erotic if there is no paenus to go in ass???? It makes me kind of defensive when polyship comes up, because it feels like the sexuality I have in real life is being used as an excuse to not engage with the dynamic that was presented in the show. And I like the dynamic presented in the show. Thats why im here.
In Conclusion
...Its just not for me. If you made it this far wow. Why. but also I hope I havent offended anyone. I have a tendancy to act more aggro for comedic effect which i TRIED to dial back here. if any of this feels needlessly mean i hope someone will point it out to me.
That said, there are versions of Joelthur I fuck with. Not enough to want more of it, but to still be able to enjoy the content when I see it. I particularly like Sweetmapple's depiction. I'm also really fond of any version where Noel was just. not who he said he was. what if we scrapped noel's established character and did something completely different. what if he gets to have all the bitter, resentful feelings I'd expect from someone in his position.
Ima be keeping the tag blocked tho. Especially once Noel reappears in Threshold, god help me.
Only in the Malevolent fandom will "seeing other people's gay sex fanfiction makes me feel like I'm being forced to have het sex in missionary position every week until I produce 2.6 children and a dog" get an enthusiastic round of applause and discussion
"I'm not trying to convince anyone!!!" >>Shares 2,000+ words about why fandom's immoral and inaccurate gay sex fan content actually makes the world worse for asexual people. "Oh but please do continue writing your reprehensible gay sex that makes me feel soooo bad, I don't mind!!!" Lmao.
Stop trying to put the burden of making the world safer for aro/ace people specifically on the shoulders of the writers of gay fanfiction and the unpaid artistic expression hobby they do for primarily for themselves and their own artistic expression. Why do so many people do this. "Hey, stranger, your unpaid queer artistic expression time needs to start centering me and my sexuality NOW." It's so fucking weird and sad and homophobic. Write your own fic. (I edited a few words here)
I do love how many words you've devoted to defending why Oscar is a better ship candidate anyways. Lmao. Definitely exactly as important as all your points about how life is difficult as a sexual minority. Makes sense for you to put those two things in the same essay when they have the same intended effect of producing more friend fic about Oscar and decreasing icky sex fic about Noel
I hope we get shittier and shittier versions of Malevolent every few years for the rest of our lives. Every subseries will wrap up with a "finale" that tells listeners to jump ahead to the next nearly identical Malevolent show. HG will be old and grey and still making his Definitely Not Queer hand puppets John and Arthur say almost-but-not-quite queer one liners in between pointless rounds of combat with creatures out of a Call of Cthulu Monster Manual, with a new third wheel thrown in every series so Jarthur never has to commit to anything too real or meaningful.
I hope we get at least one sci-fi series where they're on a big spaceship orbiting da biggest planet in the universe! And they have to blow up asteroids and it's like BOOOOOM 💥 explodo! And maybe another series where they fight dragons 🗡️🐉. And then they can time travel to ancient Egypt and defeat an evil mummy with Noel. And they could exorcise spirits with Oscar, and have dashing gentleman adventures with Daniel, and explore new worlds with the Canna,
By series 2 I expect plots to be dropped mid-segment, not even waiting a single week to move on to the next established-canon-incompatible idea. By series 7, each sentence will be a new adventure in continuity. By series 20, it'll be every other word. The final series, series 40, will grow bored of and rewrite canon with every letter
Tbh I predict that Malev 2 has 50% odds of ending suddenly, randomly, without resolution, bc creative differences/inability to collaborate
One day, pretty early into the story, there'll be a big dumb message on the Discord about how the mods are so disappointed to have to say this but Malev 2 is over but hey look, it's Malev 3! It's just like Malev 2 but no more Faroe but don't worry it's fine it'll be like nothing changed! She's back in her universe having Nancy Drew adventures just like before and guess what, Noel's back! again! This one's about Jarthur AND Noel!
TMA has a happy ending. Jon and Martin get to leave the world behind together, and everyone else gets to rebuild better. Literally what more did you want. Did you want Martin's mom to come back from the dead (only she's not technically his mom, but also technically she is) and tell Martin to hire a woman to do his laundry because she's too old to keep doing it all herself? Bc yeah I guess you get that in Malevolent and not TMA
I have some conflicting feelings about malevolent’s finale but one of the biggest things that feels off about it, in my opinion, is that this second series is going to still be following Arthur and John.
It feels more like we’re going into a season 7 more than a second series if that makes sense. Which isn’t necessarily bad but if I had known I would’ve prepared myself differently. Yes, I know that we had to have emotional build up and not know if this was the end of Jarthur’s story or not but I’m feeling mixed up and let me just say random shit. I was so sure that this finale was going to be the end of John and Arthur, not necessarily in a death way but that their story would end in some way (even though with the amount of time we had I don’t know how that’d be pulled off). I was prepared to be bawling because we wouldn’t see them again but nope they’re still here and we’re still going to be following them.
I don’t want this to come off as I don’t like Arthur and John and the stories and time we’ve had with them, I’ve enjoyed malevolent but aughhhh I don’t know.
This is probably coming off really weird because I am god awful at voicing my thoughts so just ignore me please. I have a lot of other feelings about the finale but I don’t do serious rants a whole lot on here very often so I don’t know if I’ll post them or not (and also as previously said I can’t always voice them properly).
For the last year and a half malevolent has held a special place in my heart. That being said, I think taking a break from it is long overdue. Especially since I thought we’d be having a break from it after the finale but it seems like we’re just jumping straight back in again.
Every time he makes a new show without Jarthur it gets roughly 2% (literally, not a joke or exaggeration) of the engagement that Malevolent gets. See: Deviser and Tales From The Dark World. He's tried to quit them but the audience quits him, and we can't have that. So, Malevolent 2 will contain exactly as much meaningless Jarthur as Malevolent 1. Malevolent 3 will also be about Jarthur and so will Malevolent 4 (there's no market for his other terrible ideas so we'll just keep badly harping on this one for the rest of time)
I wonder if all the braindead anti lemmings think canon itself is suss now, deserving of serious side eye, for portraying adult Faroe
Jk, of course they don't, if it's officially sanctioned by a cishet white male authority figure (and wife) then it's morally okay. Things like aged up characters are only suss when minorities do it for free (as opposed to when white cishet men and their wives do it for $$$) :x
Awwww haha Malevolent Without Jarthur (Tales From The Dark World) was such a gargantuan commercial flop that the bitch author had to officially chain himself to Malevolent and Jarthur forever. Hahaha
i predict malevolent 2 will have just as much queerbait as the malevolent 1 (in every direction - gay, aro/ace, qpp, always hinted at but never made canon outside of word of god). he tried making malevolent 2 without queerbait but no one gave a fuuuuuck about it... not a single solitary fuck... so, back to the independently produced/directed/written/performed queerbait mines
many many male characters will talk about how they just can't with women. and many sad queer teenagers will interpret this as relating to their struggles
there will be many more fictional girls who were raped and/or murdered by close male friends or family. this seems to be one of the author's very favorite fictional subjects to touch on and immediately forget about
he will make more jokes on the discord about how various side characters are sloppy gays, jokes that members of the discord would be warned if not banned for making themselves. just like incest, it's (only) fine when the creator does it
it will continue to drip with nonstop unexamined homoerotic achillean bdsm elements that, again, will be explicitly banned as topics of conversation in the patreon and discord. we may look but must pretend not to see
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