Carleton College Computer Science Stories

[cs-experiences-blog]

I wasn’t going to be like, “Hey, why’d you put all the black people together?”

Also, I just find it funny how I was being paired up with the only other black people in the class. That was also something I observed. I don't know if this was done as a way to make me comfortable, and make us comfortable, but honestly it was just dumb. Like if my professor had [asked], I could have been like cool, or no, actually that doesn't make me that comfortable. But to just do that from the get-go? Like it can’t be a coincidence that there's only three black people in the class, and we all have been paired up together out of 35 students. I don’t know if that was my professor’s way of being forward thinking and considerate, but it just made me uncomfortable, because I didn’t understand the reasoning behind it, and I wasn’t going to be like, “Hey, why’d you put all the black people together?”

[cs-experiences-blog]

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Honestly, at Carleton, no matter what major you are, there's a really high chance having issues with your mental health.

Honestly, at Carleton no matter what major you are you're... there's a really high chance having issues with your mental health, just because of the state of the campus, and how it is to be at Carleton. Add that to a stressful environment such as the CS department...I wouldn't be able to finish at Carleton. I would probably drop out.

[cs-experiences-blog]

It’s already hard enough for me to ask for help, and it took me a lot to work up the courage to do so.

I just felt like [my professor] could only teach a certain type of way. [They] could not teach in a way that people with different learning types could understand. The way that [they] taught...I just didn't click with, and I feel like in these situations -- especially as a black woman in tech -- a lot of my problems do stem from my identity, and where I come from, and how I understand things. But I also do acknowledge that, you know, I think every time there's an issue there's always something that the person can do better, and I  acknowledge that. But god damn that class. I was sitting in class, and I'm just like what the fuck are you talking about? I'm staring at you, I'm listening to you, I'm trying to digest the information, and I really don't know what the fuck you're saying. So after a time, in combination with the fact that I wasn't getting any sleep either -- I have sleep apnea -- I was just like...you know I can't even have any energy to focus on this.

I distinctly remember a time where [my professor] said, “Let me know if you have questions, I'll wait after class.” So, I was like...you know, today's the day. Today's the day I'm gonna ask for help. So I get up, and I sit in the front, and I had all my stuff packed, just waiting in the front. [My professor] is talking to another student...no, wrong I asked for help first. [My professor] was about to answer me, and some man interrupted me, and then [they] like turned [their] attention away from me, and answered his question. He had some sort of long question, so I said okay. Like, dead-ass okay, whatever, I'll sit down and wait.

So I sat down, and I waited for like 10 minutes. The dude leaves, everyone's gone, and my professor is packing up, like erasing the board and stuff. I'm like standing up, I'm like okay [are they] gonna say something to me? I stand up, and I go up to [them], and I'm like, “Hey, remember I had this question?” And my professor goes, “Oh, I have to pick up my kids right after this. Another time.”

This was, mind you, about almost 30 minutes after class, and I was waiting the whole time, and [they] didn't say shit to me. I'm like okay so like...it's already like hard enough enough for me to ask for help. Not because I have a problem with asking for help, like because I don't ever think I need help, or something. It’s because I think I always need help, and knowing that I already had a past with [this professor] with doing really badly in a [previous] class, and I was doing badly in this class, it was just like...I don't know, just nerve-wracking. I was majorly anxious, and it took me a lot to work up the courage to go ask [my professor] for help, and [they] just totally fucking blew me off. and I was like, okay thanks.

[cs-experiences-blog]

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You just have to take the L, and realize that maybe this isn't the path for you.

[After the participant posted online about her negative experiences in Carleton’s CS department]

Then that's when Adriana Estill reached out to me, and asked if I wanted to meet with my Math of CS prof, and talk about my experiences. And they were just like, “Wow, wow, wow, didn't know that! Wow!” And it's like...like of course they wouldn't know that, because like I didn't say anything. But, yeah the students know that -- or some of the students know. But, it's just like...I felt like I was doing the things I didn't want to do in order to stay put in this box, and try and keep going. But I was like...you know what? I gotta let that shit go. Like you...you just have to take the L, and realize that maybe this isn't the path for you. But, the thing is I still code!

[cs-experiences-blog]

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You can't have a group...a diverse group of people, and not have a diverse group of leaders. It just doesn't work that way.

You can't have a group...a diverse group of people, and not have a diverse group of leaders. It just doesn't work that way. Because how will they understand? [My summer manager] basically equated me saying, “Hey, these people don't wanna work with me,” to teamwork problems. Which are things that happen, but is not what's happening to me. He cannot fathom that it is different, and I know the difference because I've experienced both. I know what it's like to be frustrated with people that you work with, and have people literally shut you out of a group! There's a complete difference. So that...it's not like me attending these things -- like Lovelace and all these other groups -- won't be helpful, it'll be like...it’s like talking to a wall. Because one, I’m going to be one of the only...I'm gonna be in the minority, someone...one of the people who has a way different experience than everybody else. Or I have to be like a little bit of a spokesperson. And two, like....it's just like yeah, I'm going to tell you this stuff, but since you never experience it do you even know how important it is? Like...like how integral it is to my experience at Carleton? I just felt like...okay yeah going, and like talking about my feelings about it, and maybe it'll be helpful so they know how I feel, but are they gonna do anything? If they're not gonna do anything, then why am I wasting my breath, you know? So that's how...kind of how it felt. Not that like...I completely support Lovelace, but it just wasn't for me.

[cs-experiences-blog]

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I feel like they're just trying to trying to find the fastest, and most efficient way to make it better, and it's just not working out.

But the department itself...I feel like they're like looking for an answer in the dark. I feel like they're just trying to trying to find the fastest, and most efficient way to make it better, and it's just not working out. It's just not working out. I feel like they need to do some hard serious introspection, the professors between themselves, how they run the curriculum, and how they treat their students in order for there to be any sort of major positive effective change in the department.

[cs-experiences-blog]

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But, honestly everyone starts from somewhere! And everyone starts from the bottom, you know?

I mean, there's always gonna be cases where you're gonna be like someone who knows a lot more than the next person. That's just...that's just gonna be it. I feel like that when I take certain classes, and I'm just like, oh, all these people are like...not like...not like...And I feel like everyone at Carleton has their snooty moments where they’re just like, “Wow, like really?” But, honestly everyone starts from somewhere! And everyone starts from the bottom, you know? I felt like the males in that class, like literally being in computer science classes is basically about guys trying to inflate their own ego.

[cs-experiences-blog]

I'm someone for whom not driving is often difficult. 

I have heard/read several people talk about being annoyed by pair programming, because the person they're coding with doesn't know how to not drive.  I'm someone for whom not driving is often difficult.  Although this isn't strictly true, I'm one of those people who comes off as having been coding since the age of 4. I'd been coding for years before I came to Carleton, because I find it a lot of fun - an energizing game that I can get lost in for hours.  This means that assignments often take me less time than most people, which means that when it comes to pair assignments, I usually have a quicker sense of how to solve the problems than my partner. This, coupled with my enthusiasm for coding means that it takes a surprising degree of self-control to not be frustrated by the pace of my partner, and "back-seat drive". These factors coupled with a feeling of wasting time can cause me to backseat drive.  I realize this is annoying for the other person and hurts their learning and feelings, so I really do try to avoid this. However, I sometimes mess up, and I'm really sorry for that.  I guess I'd just like to say that there are external forces that cause this particular problem with pair programming, and that some of us really try to do better. This doesn't absolve people like me when we mess up, but it hopefully let's you see that we're not just jerks - it's a little more complicated than that.

[cs-experiences-blog]

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It was hard to find the balance between not just sitting there for two hours but also trying to be a helpful and decent human being.

I mean I definitely had one partner who didn't really know what was going on most of the time and so I was really trying to make sure that I wasn't taking up too much space when we were working together because I was like I don't want to be the mansplaining CS asshole because I don't want to do that, but at the same time she just kept not knowing what was happening and just kind of like staring at me until I would say like, “Maybe we could try doing this,” and so it was hard to find the balance between not just sitting there for two hours but also trying to be a helpful and decent human being.

[cs-experiences-blog]

I feel like the CS department at Carleton and in tech in general when it comes to diversity, people only talk about the issues that affect white people. 

I feel like the CS department at Carleton and in tech in general when it comes to diversity, people only talk about the issues that affect white people. So gender diversity, that’s one thing that affects white woman, and so whenever people want to talk about diversity, it’s always about gender and Carleton’s department will say, “Oh, we're doing so well with gender” because like half of our department is female, half is male like but all of your staff is like, white.

[cs-experiences-blog]

Do you feel your social identity affects the way you understand CS?

I don't really think my social identity affects the way I think about CS, at least not as a discipline. I was into computers way before I was trans, and I've always been into electronics. Since I was socialized as a male for most of my life, I've just gotten so used to having certain privileges and being outspoken in certain environments that I just act as though I'm still allowed to keep doing what I'm doing and no one has given me shit for it yet. However, I know that a lot of times women can feel/literally are excluded from STEM environments. As a trans-woman who came out late in her life, I don't think I have had that experience. I've never felt like I have had to overcome any prejudice in the Math department where I currently reside. That said, I don't really try very hard to "transgress" any boundaries. I try not bring "muh identity" into STEMMY things because I don't think STEM is about that, and there is a pervasive impression that STEM people don't really know how to have those kinds of dialogue, and I'm not gonna waste my time discussing my identity with some who doesn't give a fuck about it, and also I don’t know, me being trans isn't gonna help solve this first order derivative you know what I mean? That isn't the point.

[cs-experiences-blog]

I have to understand something and be able to communicate that with someone else, which is actually good, but it can get pretty tiring sometimes.

-What is your outlook/experience with paired programming? 

I feel like it’s kind of mixed because with peer programming I feel like I’m forced to set deadlines for stuff like finding a time where you and your partner can meet up, I like that aspect of it- But in terms of learning, there are more layers to it, like I have to understand something and be able to communicate that with someone else, which is actually good, but it can get pretty tiring sometimes.

In intro CS I had this really cool partner, I feel like since we were both coming into it not really knowing anything, it was more like what I envisioned with a peer programming to be like, it was kind of more collaborative, like we both had no idea what we were doing so we just worked on it together, and any solution we had was valid because, it’s a situation like when you both are uncertain on some things, it’s easier to work with someone on the same level as you I guess. 

-Were there any peer programming experiences that were less successful?

Yeah, I would say so. I feel like there’s been situations where people have been less receptive to the ideas I’ve had, and I understand that maybe my ideas may not be so great sometimes, but there have been times that people have been just like, I don’t know, I don’t know how they evaluated me, maybe they just like working alone, but they were just like “I’ll just work on my part alone, show it to you, and if you’re ok with it we can turn it in”, like I don’t get anything out of that so it’s not very ideal.  

[cs-experiences-blog]

There are many Chinese in the CS department, so I feel like I had more people that I could approach than [someone else would].

There are many Chinese in the CS department, so I feel like I had more people that I could approach than [someone else would]. [We have a group chat], because we had a group in our year, from Intro, and I realized sometimes I want to ask questions [of the upperclassmen], and then I would approach each of the the upperclassmen individually, and I realized, “why did I bother to do that every single time?” So, I put them all into a group chat, and I would just say like, “Oh, we can discuss about internships.”

We all already know each other, so we don't need all the activities to get us to bond with each other. Because if you’re Chinese, then if you want to know the Chinese community, you can.

We have like an entire group of Chinese students at Carleton. So, I know their WeChat names, and I know who hangs out in the CMC more, and then if I add someone who's a CS major, they usually tell me more people that are also interested in CS, so then I get to know more of them.

[cs-experiences-blog]

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I was reconsidering whether I have a talent for CS.

I think, at that time, I was reconsidering whether I have a talent for CS. Because for the assignments, it took us a long time to finis, and I know some of my friends who finished the assignment in one or two hours, and we would spend five hours on one. We didn’t really think about that during the assignment, but after the test I was like...am I good at this? Will I be good at this? Because I know I’m good at math and physics, all the calculations, but CS is not as mathematical as I thought it would be. CS is more logical, and my logic is really bad.

[cs-experiences-blog]

I have friends who are like, “I did Codecademy, and now I know how to do everything!”

[When I’m struggling with an assignment] I usually just avoid it until the last possible moment...but then, when you finally have to start, you realize, “oh, if only I had just started earlier, I could’ve dug through this and I would’ve been fine.”

It’s one of those things where like… googling it, it’s like right there. I don't know any other class where the whole thing is on the internet. That's why I kind of...I feel slightly guilty for being in CS, because I have friends who are like, “I did Codecademy, and now I know how to do everything!” So I feel like...slightly guilty for spending college doing CS classes as opposed to like...utilizing the internet and just doing it on my own.

[cs-experiences-blog]

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“I do sometimes feel like, ‘wow, this is a whole world that I’m not part of.’”

“I’ve noticed sometimes - and there’s nothing, I think, wrong with this - but sometimes people who are in the second category, like people who have been sort of like building computers since they were - since they could walk, like to go on these sort of like side tangents that I don’t understand. And that’s happened a little bit in class but mostly outside of class. And I don’t think it’s the end of the world, but I do sometimes feel like, ‘wow, this is a whole world that I’m not part of.’”

[cs-experiences-blog]

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“They think that computer science is just something that they will never understand.“

“They [my parents] were definitely supportive. They definitely have this this where they think - I think a lot of people, like, kind of feel this way - but they think that computer science is just something that, like, they will never understand, and like is just beyond anything normal people understand, and whatever, which is just not true. And, like, any time I start talking about it, they’re like “uh! This coding stuff!” like it’s some strange, foreign thing.”