So lately I've seen people, or maybe just one really invested person, trying to die on the hill that Astarion's romance actually falls flat as a romance, and it sucks. Partially because the act 2 confession gives you no chance to do anything but sit there and take it when he's like. "So, I was manipulating you."
But they also seem to think he just isn't nice enough in general.
You're an Astarionmancer, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and also seem to have done more video game romances then I have, so I was wondering what you think about how the Astarion romance writing, and perhaps all the BG3 romance writing stacks up to other games, or even works in a vacuum.
Lately I've been coming to the conclusion that it's just fine. It's a nice little sprinkle on top of a fifth edition combat simulator. But none of them are actually that immersion if the player isn't willing to jump through hoops and just, make up things for Tav/Their romanced companion have in common/ do together/ and plot beats that actually progress the relationship.
I'm also extremely aro/Ace so I think that might bias me a bit.
I have also seen those posts and they are very funny. It's not even that they're wrong, necessarily? But this is such a subjective thing that proclaiming either "This is the WORST and anybody who disagrees is an IMBECILE!" or "This is the BEST and anybody who disagrees is a HATER!" just outs you as the imbecile hater, ya know?
First of all, romance in general is very subjective. There's a reason there's a thousand different romance subgenres, tropes, clichés, character archetypes etc etc. No two romance enjoyers will like the same thing. Even Astarion's own romance is, ironically, divided into two camps of who enjoys what, and they're pretty much opposites.
Like, I personally find enemies/rivals-to-lovers very compelling, and I love a slow burn. I also like to play with power dynamics in a mostly nonsexual way, especially if they shift or change. Some people die for friends-to-lovers, while others enjoy the full package of sexual power imbalances. It's just the way it is.
So if that person thinks Astarion's romance sucks, then it does! To them! And that's honestly whatever, it's their right to think that and express it. I will think they're incorrect and they will think I'm incorrect and we'll all be merry in our own ways.
Second of all, yeah, you're right. His romance isn't that "immersive" if you're not willing to do at least half, if not most of the legwork. But that's not really a valid criticism (not that you were making it), to me, because that's just ... how video games work. He only has a set amount of lines, a certain amount of reactivity, and his romance can only play out in a few specific ways. This is true for pretty much all mainstream video game romances (some exceptions could exist in interactive fiction, but even then that depends on the author, and is still just a better illusion of choice). To me, very silly to say that video game romances are one-sided because yeah? Video games are not magic, they are systems and set narratives that offer limited player input. The only way they wouldn't be one-sided is if two NPCs romanced each other, and that's also why book or movie romances might feel more complete. It's also why Durgestarion fans think it's the superior way to romance Astarion, because there is a stronger illusion of him responding specifically to their character, when in reality it's the same set of rules, just slightly more granular.
To me, finding out what draws my game OC to their chosen romance is sort of the fun of role-playing, so saying that "it's one-sided" or "it's not reactive" is like complaining that your coloring book is black and white. Like, yeah. It's by design, I'm afraid. If you're not ready to bust out your crayons, you're not gonna enjoy the concept of a coloring book.
I also disagree that you can't respond to his "reveal" of just manipulating you, because you can break up, or tell him you were just in it for the sex, or even coerce/assault him. The only thing I'd say was missing is wanting to keep the relationship going but expressing hurt over his actions, which I think would've been a good addition and require some emotional maturity/responsibility from Astarion. That's a genuine oversight, IMO. I just lucked out by playing a character who was mostly just down to clown and didn't care they'd been "used," because they had little emotional investment to begin with. But for players with characters who were genuinely falling for him at that point? Yeah, that one probably stings, and it's a fair criticism and reason for not wanting to romance him.
Me? I like a messy bitch in fiction. My type in any video game romance is generally a Casanova type who oopsie-daisied his way into actual feelings. It's a tale as old as time and it gets me nearly every time. So I saw it coming, not because I'm a big brain chad (that's unrelated) but because the confession is part of that character archetype and story. I've seen it a billion times. You can't have a ladykiller romance without said ladykiller being like "Oughough what have you DONE to me!! I have ... feeelings!!" When Astarion did that I was just doing the Leo DiCaprio pointing meme.
If you're not into that archetype and story, though? Or you're just not super familiar with romance tropes or video game romances? Then it's understandable why you'd be put off.
As for how it stacks up against other video game romances? I'd say i's definitely up there in terms of emotion, but I wouldn't call it one of the best overall? Mainly because it is so very Astarion-centered, and that could probably be said for the others in BG3, too. Unless you're playing Durge, there's just very little the ROs will react to, and little that makes the relationship feel unique.
And I know I said that's normal for games, but some games create that illusion of reactivity better than others. Compare it to, say, Dragon Age: Inquisition, where Sera will be harder to romance as an elf because of her internalized racism, or Cullen will go all templar guilt on you if you're a mage. Now I'm not saying put more racism into romances, but to make a compelling video game romance you need, in my opinion, to create some sort of character-specific tension or dynamic between the RO and the player character.
I like it when ROs in games hit on the player, for example. Dragon Age Origins and 2 do this well with Anders and Zevran (haters be damned). You get the sense that these men like your character, specifically. That there is something about them that is unique, right?
And in BG3, nearly all companions want to fuck you, right? So doesn't that have the same effect? To me, not really, because 1) they all do it (save maybe Wyll, but he's easy to charm, too) and 2) they do it to each other. Constantly. You don't get the sense that "oh this character likes me more than the others" nor "oh this character will take a while to open up." It's just "oh they're all down to fuck, with me and with each other. cool."
Daeran in PWotR will also hit on the player and everyone else, BUT he's pretty much the only one actually constantly and overtly pursuing the player (Lann is also there but he's way more lowkey and has fewer scenes doing that afaik), and his flirtations toward the other characters are mean-spirited and insincere. So that instantly still creates a different dynamic between the player and him that can be explored. It's an opening to create something that feels like only you two can have. BG3 fumbles that a little, methinks. It often feels like the characters are horny for you because they know you're the player, and they have to signal to you that romance is a mechanic in this game.
The best structured video game romance, to me, is Femshep and Garrus Vakarian, and I can already hear people screaming. Now, he's not actually my favorite video game romance, but I think it's the most natural and structurally sound one I've played so far. And it's all pretty much accidental, hard to replicate (since it plays out over the course of 3 games) and works partly because Femshep is also a defined character in her own right. There's less room for headcanon and more that you end up exploring and filling in an existing dynamic, which can also be interesting. Once again it really depends on your own preferences, though. The structure and back-and-forth and existing dynamic that makes it so robust to me could also be what somebody else doesn't like about it.
Um. I hope that ... answered your question? Or at least offered some insight!
