The most majestic of beasts

A blog discussing the design and application of dragons as characters and concepts. We redline/critique *self-submitted* art, give advice for specevo/worldbuilding, and review dragons found across media. But mostly we like to roast shitty dragon designs in media. We try not to take ourselves too seriously here. Want to better your dragon art? Find out if we've reviewed your favorite show? Need to know about a specific topic? Check out our various pages below!

[f-nodragonart]

SORRY I HAVEN’T UPDATED IN MONTHS I’M NOT DEAD AND I’LL GET TO THE INBOX.... AT SOME POINT, BUT I’M FROTHING MAD RIGHT NOW

https://www.deviantart.com/team/journal/Tutorial-Draw-a-Dragon-with-ryky-887583298

https://www.deviantart.com/team/journal/Tutorial-Draw-a-Creature-Wing-with-AbigailLarson-890780877

[IMAGE ID: two screencaps of the titles of two official Deviantart tutorials, released by the official Devianart team. the first reads, “Tutorial: Draw a Dragon with ryky,” and the background shows a step-by-step of a black dragon that is literally shaped like the letter fucking d. the second one reads, “Tutorial: Draw a Creature Wing with AbigailLarson,” and the background shows a few bat-like webbed wings that are broken and flimsy beyond belief, shaped like mere triangles. END ID]

DEVIANTART CONTINUES TO BE A FUCKING JOKE!!!

not even gonna bother doing a breakdown, I’ll just link this comment that hit every point on the wing tutorial I would’ve hit, do legendguard a favor and give that comment a like

-Mod Spiral

[darkwood-sleddog]

I don’t want a single animated animal movie to use the term alpha. I don’t care if its wolves, dragons, trolls, dinosaurs whatever can we just fucking stop using this term please for the love of all that is scientific and good.

[darkwood-sleddog]

This post got a lot of attention with some of you guys being like “but I like *insert movie here*”. First off, being critical of the terms and animal behavior theories used in animated media, which is often CHILDREN’S media, does not mean we have to automatically dislike said media, you can still enjoy things! But it doesn’t mean that things can’t improve going forward.

The term “Alpha” and the theory of hierarchal dominance in dogs and wolves was made popular by a few people. First, in 1910, in “Training Dogs” by Colonel Konrad Most, which is mostly about training military and police dogs, describes punishment based methods and dominance over dogs. Second, in the 1930s and 1940s Rudolph Schenkel, a Swiss animal behaviorist, conducted a behavior study on captive wolves in which he incorrectly concluded that wolves fight to gain dominance and the winner is the “Alpha”. 

Schenkel’s findings were problematic because instead of replicating how wolves live in the wild (A related family group with parents and puppies) he brought together many unrelated wolves that were not a family and thus they naturally did not have family bonds and fought for territory as wolves often do in the wild. Naturally, wolves are a bonded mating pair and their offspring. That’s it. There is no alpha, no fighting for dominance. this or that. Once a pup reaches adulthood and is ready for a mate of its own they simply leave the pack to start their own, sometimes other related wolves stick around their family pack. 

Schenkel’s findings and the spread of his inaccurate information has done a lot of damage in the dog world. From the Monks of New Skete to Cesar Millan to the people today that still think they need to be the boss of their dog even when training dogs with positivity and reward has been documented well before the theories of dominance or ‘alpha’ came to be (Around 1848 we have descriptions of training with gentleness and rewards for gun dogs) that damage continues to be a harmful way of training our dogs and people still believe that they need to treat their dogs in this (unscientific) way. 

David Mech, who studied wolves in the wild and consolidated his findings in a study in 2000 said this: “Attempting to apply information about the behavior of assemblages of unrelated captive wolves to the familial structure of natural packs has resulted in considerable confusion. Such an approach is analogous to trying to draw inferences about human family dynamics by studying humans in refugee camps. The concept of the alpha wolf as a “top dog” ruling a group of similar-aged compatriots is particularly misleading.”

and where does this lead us with animation where I so often see this term still thrown around? Well it’s lazy storytelling. Instead of doing further research to bring their characters depth, nuance, and uniqueness studios, writers, etc. slap the alpha theory and its labels around like it means something, like it’s relevant and this only perpetuates the myth that these animals, incredibly family oriented animals, are like this. And yes, the term ‘alpha’ is still sometimes thrown around when discussing the breeding pairs of wolf packs, but for the general public they don’t think Parent and Babies, they think Alpha Fighting for Dominance.

Instead of exploring the deep and complex cultural ways your character might have been raised, the hierarchy of their society and their relationship and feelings about such cultural family hierarchy, all excellent topics for an animated property both in children’s and adult realms, slapping the ‘alpha’ terms and theories into your property cheapens it. “hur dur he’s aggressive so he’s the alpha/leader!”. LAZY. Explore the leader of your family group as a kind, but tough individual trying to raise her offspring for a difficult life ahead, or a soft and gentle leader who nurtures his offspring but finds it difficult to let them go (*cough cough finding nemo*). There are so many ways you could go with this without perpetuating outdating science the peer of eugenics and other theories we KNOW are crude, poorly researched and unscientific. You don’t need to use the term alpha, your audience, yes even children, are smart enough to understand who the leader is (given your writing is decent). 

As somebody with a deeply rooted interest in canine behavioral science as WELL as somebody that has a BFA in Animation, adding the ‘Alpha’ terms to animals that are supposed to be protagonists completely takes me out of the movie/tv show. In How to Train Your Dragon 2 I loved the contrast between Hiccup’s relationship with Toothless, whose relationship and training built on trust and reward, and Drago who uses punishment based training methods. But at the end of the movie when Toothless gains a power up and becomes the ‘Alpha’ by defeating the Bewilderbeast I was sitting in the theater like….

Because while it wasn’t something that most people notice or care about, for me it was like “well we did all this research on animal behavior/how they move etc. and have built up this wonderful contrast between the protagonists methods (ultimately positive reinforcement) and the villain’s methods (dominance theory) but when it came to hierarchal structures we kinda just stopped the research there.”

For me, a more interesting take on Dragon Society Hierarchy would have been to take it more from existing reptilian social structure since the dragons already seem to widely tolerate each other even if they aren’t family, like alligators who live in large groups called congregations. Would it have made for as direct a concept as “Toothless defeats the big bad and now HE’S the leader of ALL the dragons?” No, but sometimes the easy path, the direct path, is not the best path. Let DIFFERENT concepts take hold for once and take your story somewhere new and exciting. Make animal behaviorists and scientists excited while teaching resonating lessons and telling good stories. Please. I beg you. 

[nyctosaurid]

hey look at this

[f-nodragonart]

I have no idea if you guys would know this, but I have been wondering about this for forever. I have a dragon with skin (no scales) and he has scars. What color would the scars be? Would they be pinkish or a lighter color of his skin?

first, a brief rundown on wound healing and scars:

Wound healing is a complex process that involves four main phases: hemostasis, inflammation, proliferation, and tissue remodeling. Hemostasis simply means a blood clot forms to stop the flow of blood. Inflammation occurs due to blood vessel dilation and the accumulation of nutrients and cells that work to repair the damaged tissue. Proliferation means that the cells around the wound begin to multiply in order to form the new tissue that will seal the wound. Lastly, tissue remodeling involves production of a protein called collagen to support the new tissue. Scars are formed during this final stage of wound healing.

and one more on the dermis:

On your skin you have a special layer located below the epidermis called the dermis. The dermis is perhaps the skin’s most important layer, as it contains blood capillaries, sweat glands, hair follicles, and other important structures. While this layer is very powerful, it can also be fragile and easily torn. When the dermis is torn apart from the epidermis, that’s when scars are formed.

so scar appearance in general seems to vary depending on: 

type of injury and how it initially affected the flesh (clean surgical incision, ragged gash, skin-melting burn, etc.) 

the severity of the initial wound (length/width, depth and how many layers of skin/flesh were affected, etc.)

where the scar is located and how that location affects the healing process (areas of flexion may crease and stretch scars, skin has different stretch/softness depending on body location, etc.)

individual factors in skin resilience (skin tone, genetics, age, hormones, etc.)

how the wound was treated throughout the healing process (stitches, proper cleaning, sun/UV exposure, etc.)

age of the scar itself (a freshly-healed scar will not appear the same as a long-matured scar)

all these factors will affect everything about a scar, from depth to color

like before I even touch color, note that scar depth will drastically change the appearance of a scar. scars can range in depth from sunken/pitted to raised, due to varying collagen production (too much collagen leads to raised scars), or collagen damage. and this site lists even more types of scars, based on the various factors I’ve already discussed

so keep that all in mind when I say that scar color can be pretty unpredictable, from person to person, and scar to scar. so, yes, scars can be hypopigmented (lighter than the surrounding skin) due to loss of skin pigment during the initial wound and healing process. the scar may even appear white, depending on how light the skin is, and/or how much pigmentation was lost during the scarring process. but scars can *also* be darker than the surrounding skin instead. this is most common in newer scars that are still healing, causing a darker red/purple scar appearance due purely to extra blood flow rather than pigmentation. but some scars end up just staying that way, especially common in raised scars like keloids. some scars may also develop more melanin if they’re exposed to a lot of sun during the healing process, thus becoming hyperpigmented (darker than the surrounding skin)

to be clear, I’m aware that most of the sites I linked are to plastic surgery offices or scar cream sellers. I don’t want to push the agenda that scars need to be “fixed”-- to be clear, as long as they aren’t causing pain/discomfort, they don’t, and it’s up to the individual to decide if they want to either embrace or change the appearance of their scars. but these sites seem to have some of the most useful information on scar types/formation, so take that as you will

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

Could a dragon with four wings (two in front two in back) and no arms/legs realistically exist? Would it be able to slither on the ground like a snake or would that not be possible?

slithering prolly isn’t an option b/c limbs just aren’t conducive to slithering in general, unless the limbs themselves were small and unobtrusive to the torso, which would then render the wings useless. if u still rly want that snake-like look w/ the wings, you may be able to do caterpillar inching, tho? like the hips and shoulders are what hit the ground and inch the body forward

but obviously wings can also double as walking limbs! I’m imagining the gait of a vampire bat or pterosaur (which I imagine would be similar to a vampire bat’s gait?) if you want to go for quadrupedal walking. bipedal is also a fun alternative, considering the front wings would be the larger/stronger, so you’d have a smaller set of wings hanging off the bottom of the torso that may double as graspers!

either way, there are lots of options to think abt, here

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

this video may be a bit off-topic b/c it doesn’t touch dragons/creatures at ALL, but I think it rly gets at the heart of semantics and nuanced definitions I’ve been trying to explain for years when it comes to defining dragons. the question, “is this a dragon?” (much like the question, “is this art?”) generally doesn’t have a solid yes/no answer, but is rather an exploration of our individual biases and broader cultural trends, more than anything

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

Also, regarding post: /641716145554096128

I’ve always been so caught up in the wings that I *just* noticed the back feet…the toes from the front left foot look like they’ve been edited onto each back leg…backwards…what the actual frickity-frack?

(It looks like you can just see the right foot’s correct toes. So…he can’t fly or walk properly. That’s a dragon that would want to be slain, lol.)

~~~~

what the HELL I can’t believe I didn’t notice that at first either! what!!!

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

my friend forced me to watch all the other Dragonhearts over the last couple nights, after seeing all the Dragonheart stuff on the blog recently, and I gotta say I’m kinda shocked by the quality of 3-5? and it’s funny, my friend pointed out how the 2nd is the only one that more strictly continues the plot/tone of the 1st but fails spectacularly, whereas 3-5 kinda feel like a separate franchise of dragon movies (setting aside the obvious heart-fire shtick), and manage to stand p well on their own. genuinely if I were to set aside the pure nostalgia factor of the 1st, I think I’d rate the 5th as the best, followed by the 1st and the 4th

for the 5th, Siveth and Darius are both SUCH good characters on their own, and then you put them together and their dynamic/history give SO much depth and fun characterization I just hrghh I love them. and the silly animal-themed villains have so much character too, and even the side-romance w/ the protag and the village girl is charming rather than distracting/stale like it usually feels when it’s just a side-plot like that

and even if I don’t think the 4th is *quite* as good as the 1st, it’s still real damn good. tho honestly it’s the sibling dynamic b/t Edric and Mehgan that rly makes that movie shine, they play off each other SO well, I love it. I do find it upsetting that a dragon’s heartfire can just be inherited tho, that rly removes the importance of the decision, y’know? like a dragon makes a CHOICE to share their heart, and even if it’s not always the best choice, it still says something abt what they thought abt the human/situation in question, that they’re willing to give up their independent life. like, it’s not an easy decision to make, and the dragon should be allowed to MAKE that decision!

I’d say the 3rd is just, a solid dragon movie. not especially good or bad, so it doesn’t rly stick with me. I like the effect of Drago as a weird ghost tho, like all the nerves running through his ghostly body... p sick. I also rly like the potter couple side-characters, they’re v sweet. unfortunately, this movie undercuts dragon autonomy even worse than the 4th, by forcibly sharing an unhatched baby dragon’s heart with some random human without their permission, like. that’s incredibly upsetting lmao

and the 2nd... well, that one can rot lmfao

one critique that I can throw at ALL the prequels/sequels tho, is the continued addition of new dragon powers with every movie. in most cases it just seems unnecessary, like Drake introducing the concept of “ice breath” (but with the caveat that it’s a “rare power”, thus why we didn’t see Draco use it, lmao). and the shadow-jumping in the 3rd was neat, but it literally never came up again after the 3rd movie, and seemed completely disconnected from any dragon (or even specifically Dragonheart) lore?

I will say that I’ve always thought Draco’s rock-morphing power was weird, b/c it just seemed like a weak excuse to have a character accidentally sit on him in the 1st movie, then it’s not rly used again in the 1st. so to have Siveth later explain that male dragons turn into rocks (and water apparently?????), while females turn into other animals is just. baffling. I get that it’s supposed to explain why she’s turning into animals while no other dragon before her has ever turned into anything beyond a rock, but it’s still a p dumb explanation. I’m personally retconning that lore into, “rocks are the easiest thing to turn into, so it’s what a dragon will turn into on autopilot when spooked, but they can all turn into anything,” b/c that makes more sense to me lmao

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

Here’s another image of Draco that shows the weird wing scale-feather things. Whenever I look at this image I get confused as it looks like the bit with the wing scales is a folded wing edited over the open wing…

I am glad the scale-feather-whatever-they’re-meant-to-be got removed from the final design, they look out of place IMO. Putting them on a dragon like Saphira would have made more sense.

~~~~

what in the world.... that rly does just look like a folded wing *floating* there, how the hell...

and that’s a fair point, since Draco doesn’t rly have any other “feathery” scales on any other part of his body, they would have stuck out a bit

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

re: raya and the last dragon, honestly yeah im excited for everything in the movie BUT the dragon, which is funny bc its usually. The opposite lol. I'm mostly here for us SE asians *finally* getting some rep bc everyone likes to pretend asia's just china and japan, but imo that almost makes the dragon design worse? Like if they wanted to stick to the regular eastern dragon (again, china and japan aren't the ONLY ones with dragons like that, cmon) at least make it resemble that instead of dragon elsa! But there's also SE dragons that don't resemble the eastern dragon, like filipino dragons for example- so they really kinda missed the mark on it which sucks :(

genuinely had the SAME EXACT thought-- I usually latch onto the nonhuman parts of a story way more than the human parts. but this movie seems to have a rly engaging human base.... with a superrr stale dragon element slapped on top. cut that dragon out, and we’ve maybe got a cool movie goin’ (well, cut out the “battle-baby” too, that character seems annoying as hell. Boss Baby-ass...)

I’m so sorry y’all are gettin a movie w/ such sad dragon rep, y’all deserve way cooler than this..

-Mod Spiral

[ohsehuns]

NeZha (2019)

[cowboy-garfield]

In light of the new Raya and the Last Dragon trailer, I’d like to bring this back.

Look at this. This is the caliber of art we could have gotten, but no. Pretty backwards how the small animation studios such as Cartoon Saloon, SPA, and countless others are the ones taking risks and putting their fucking all into the movies and TV shows they create, meanwhile the biggest film company in history; the one with the most ability to do something great, is not.

Look up there again, and now look at what we got. Two years later!

I’m not going to sit here and pretend like it’s the worst character design of all time, but it is obviously very sanded down and ‘Elsa-fied’ for marketability and… It’s just boring. It looks like something you’d see in a barbie playset rather than in a movie with a multimillion dollar budget run by one of the biggest companies on Earth.

Disney as a corporation does enough horrible shit as is, but on top of that they are clearly making art for money’s sake, and not for art’s sake, despite already having won the game a hundred times over.

It’s honestly a slap in the face how much they clearly didn’t try here. I’m not faulting the artists and animators who worked on this movie, but rather the execs and bigwigs up the ladder who obviously melted it down to the perfect, focus tested stuffed animal——

Oh look it’s already happened

There does appear to be a “this isn’t even my final form” type deal happening with her, which looks a biiiit better? But it’s still got that disney googly eyed doll thing going on, and fuck—the face. Again; not the worst ever—a little better than the primary design—but it’s still not great.

And saying “muhh it’s for kids why are you melting down over the pretty dragon you’re way too spun up about this,” no. Stop. This is the kind of shit that can change an entire industry. That can affect many real people and their careers. Hell, it could affect my career in the future.

And the excuse of being made for kids also holds no water. Kids aren’t stupid; there is some damn outstanding children’s media out there that doesn’t rely on being as watered down and pandering as possible—that takes itself seriously and commits to telling not just a targeted, appealing story, but a quality one with a true vision.

Kind of like, oh—what Disney used to fucking excel at.

There is a difference between something being made for kids and something being marketed to them.

And yes, Disney has always marketed the everliving shit out of everything they make, but for God’s sake it feels like now the order of operations is backwards. As if their recent movies have the marketability woven into their structure from the start rather than simply being strong enough to… Be something people want to financially support.

This Illumination-style trend of being as safe and widely-pandering as possible at the cost of artistry, risk, and pioneering is a disease that’s permeated big animation studios. And no one is a bigger perpetrator of this than the Mouse, who—ironically—is the one with infinite resources to do whatever the hell they want.

And this is what they did instead, all in the name of filling their own pockets even more. I hate this corporation and I hate this stupid cotton candy Joan Rivers dragon.

Maybe I’ll be wrong; please let me be wrong! this movie could come out and be great and I want that. But this character design, the generic-looking plot, and the subpar and lmao #relatable trailer are seriously making me doubt it’ll be anything more than another super safe cash cow.

Support small studios. Screw Disney. What a disappointment.

[ethercatia]

I am so mad at everything about this dragons’ design. What the hell compelled these people to give it Elsa’s face??? I am disturbed and upset at this human faced, bastardization of a dragon that clearly takes influence from Chinese/Japanese dragons. Just because the face mold is easy to make toys and money, does not mean you should when you could do so much better than this. What the HELL Disney.

[f-nodragonart]

this is SO fucking funny. @ Disney: YES girl give us NOTHING

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

@guephren:

Wow, apparently I can't English. xD I meant to say that I found this blog after its cringe phase. To be honest, this blog is the source of dragon information little me would've died for. Back then there were a few tutorials on drawing dragons but never ones that dived enough into anatomy for my liking- and here we now have posts with comparative anatomy and build tips and I'm like, yesssssss.

Gotta admit that my first taste at something similar to this was that dragon mockumentary, that one where they found one in ice? It's been talked about here before. It was all I had for a good while and I referenced it a lot. :> Anyway, thanks to all mods for all the info and discussions posted here. Keep safe and happy 2021! :D

~~~~

oh, yeah that makes more sense lmao

aaaa I’m so glad we’re helpful, that’s all I strive to be ;w;

god yeah, Dragons: A Fantasy Made Real. I love it, but it’s *so* deeply flawed. I figure that and Dragonology put a lot of young’ins on the path to dragon specevo way back when, Dragonology was def my catalyst

thank u, I wish you a happy and safe ‘21 as well!

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

Dragonheart design process

Hey, so after getting linked to this through another website, I figure it would be relevant to this blog:

https://monsterlegacy.net/2014/11/14/draco-dragonheart/

It goes into Draco’s design process. I remember asking in this post about your thoughts on his anatomy. The website above mentions his thumb being removed due to interfering with the animation and challenges with the wings. Fantastic CGI regardless. It mentions him having retractable teeth too, but I don’t recall seeing that in the film so assume it got ditched? I wonder if that inspired Toothlesse’s retractable teeth?

~~~~~

oh WOW this is fascinating! thank you so much for sending this in, I LOVE reading abt character designs processes, esp for a character as complex and dynamic as Draco!

I genuinely don’t remember if Draco’s teeth were retractable in the final film, it’s been such a long time since I’ve seen it. that’s such a funny way to reconcile Draco’s expressions tho, hm. maybe it’s just b/c I like monsters, but I don’t rly see why having visible teeth during certain non-aggressive expressions would be a problem, but I guess I wouldn’t know w/o seeing the exact planning process to get to that decision

as for Toothless, he actually *is* genuinely toothless in the HTTYD books, so the designers had to reconcile that w/ the completely new take on the character in the movies. the retractable teeth may still have been influenced by Draco, but either way, the designers would’ve had to justify the name “Toothless” somehow

but I do love the gorilla inspiration used for Draco’s face, it works SO damn well. too often, designers will simply try to mold human features to a nonhuman “look” and just get something so painfully uncanny and awkward. but using an animal that’s sort of a “transition” between long snouts and flat human faces is a RLY clever way to merge the two looks into something organic and believable

what I rly wanna know more about is the thing with the wing folding– how exactly did they design the wings, that they couldn’t make the folded wings match the actual anatomy of the open wings? I’m so curious about how the two models differ

I’m also VERY sad to see that an early design actually DID have rly good wings with a nice membrane that attached down the length of the torso

that looks SO much better than the membrane just attaching up near the armpit. and the feathery scales in that little area near the rump is *such* a lovely touch, I rly wish that would’ve stayed. I at least understand the need to cut a complicated detail like the feathery scales there, but I rly don’t understand the decision to cut the membrane itself down shorter…

it’s also rly nice to be able to see Draco’s full torso in the models, he’s got a rly nice torso shape

and look at that, his wing shoulders actually ARE kinda behind the front legs, now that I can see properly! still a little too close to the front legs, and sticking up out of the top of the spine in a very detached, unstable fashion, but still better than a lot of mainstream wings I’ve seen!

also not sure if the hand/foot designs in that particular model made it to the final film, but they’re sooo nicely shaped, with strong bases but kinda gangly toes/fingers, it’s a real nice look

I think the best part of that article is just seeing how enthusiastic everyone is abt Draco, and their dedication to making him feel authentic. obviously you can see the effort in the final film, but to see the ppl behind it talk abt Draco with such affection and enthusiasm…. rly warms me heart…

-Mod Spiral

[pterobat]

Draco is a magnificent creation. I still think all dragons in the setting were meant to look like him, before the sequels.

However, his wings sadly don’t connect to his body.

Also, while a gif is hard to find, Draco doesn’t have fully retractile teeth in the film, but does have a longer pair of canines pop outas he’s prepping his jaws to widen and get Bowen. Sort of like a snake’s fangs, but with no suggestion he’s poisonous.

https://makeagif.com/amp/l4tfXT

_premium

[f-nodragonart]

god I wish

yeah, Draco’s wings are easily the worst part of his design. but if I could fix his wings, give his legs more substantial connections to the torso, and maybe tweak his spine a bit, I’d honestly call him perfect

the snake fang thing is baffling.... I wonder if some scene involving his venom was cut? I’m surprised that was just left in tho

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

@guephren​: I love this blog! I find it when it still had "cringe" so all I've found here is excellent information regarding tips on dragon creation. I'm very happy every time there's a new post and love reading through them. :D

@jaiette​: Nah man it’s all sweet. When we were younger we were all obsessed with cringe art, I think you just end up maturing out of it ahah. My art was posted here a few times when I was younger and it’s just hilarious now looking back. You guys have always been like one of my favourite blogs on here, and like they said, it’s just awesome to still see this blog alive and kicking Look after yourselves and thank you for everything through the years xx

~~~~

I’m so glad we still bring joy to ppl, my heart is so full...

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

Dragonheart design process

Hey, so after getting linked to this through another website, I figure it would be relevant to this blog:

https://monsterlegacy.net/2014/11/14/draco-dragonheart/

It goes into Draco’s design process. I remember asking in this post about your thoughts on his anatomy. The website above mentions his thumb being removed due to interfering with the animation and challenges with the wings. Fantastic CGI regardless. It mentions him having retractable teeth too, but I don’t recall seeing that in the film so assume it got ditched? I wonder if that inspired Toothlesse’s retractable teeth?

~~~~~

oh WOW this is fascinating! thank you so much for sending this in, I LOVE reading abt character designs processes, esp for a character as complex and dynamic as Draco!

I genuinely don’t remember if Draco’s teeth were retractable in the final film, it’s been such a long time since I’ve seen it. that’s such a funny way to reconcile Draco’s expressions tho, hm. maybe it’s just b/c I like monsters, but I don’t rly see why having visible teeth during certain non-aggressive expressions would be a problem, but I guess I wouldn’t know w/o seeing the exact planning process to get to that decision

as for Toothless, he actually *is* genuinely toothless in the HTTYD books, so the designers had to reconcile that w/ the completely new take on the character in the movies. the retractable teeth may still have been influenced by Draco, but either way, the designers would’ve had to justify the name “Toothless” somehow

but I do love the gorilla inspiration used for Draco’s face, it works SO damn well. too often, designers will simply try to mold human features to a nonhuman “look” and just get something so painfully uncanny and awkward. but using an animal that’s sort of a “transition” between long snouts and flat human faces is a RLY clever way to merge the two looks into something organic and believable

what I rly wanna know more about is the thing with the wing folding– how exactly did they design the wings, that they couldn’t make the folded wings match the actual anatomy of the open wings? I’m so curious about how the two models differ

I’m also VERY sad to see that an early design actually DID have rly good wings with a nice membrane that attached down the length of the torso

that looks SO much better than the membrane just attaching up near the armpit. and the feathery scales in that little area near the rump is *such* a lovely touch, I rly wish that would’ve stayed. I at least understand the need to cut a complicated detail like the feathery scales there, but I rly don’t understand the decision to cut the membrane itself down shorter…

it’s also rly nice to be able to see Draco’s full torso in the models, he’s got a rly nice torso shape

and look at that, his wing shoulders actually ARE kinda behind the front legs, now that I can see properly! still a little too close to the front legs, and sticking up out of the top of the spine in a very detached, unstable fashion, but still better than a lot of mainstream wings I’ve seen!

also not sure if the hand/foot designs in that particular model made it to the final film, but they’re sooo nicely shaped, with strong bases but kinda gangly toes/fingers, it’s a real nice look

I think the best part of that article is just seeing how enthusiastic everyone is abt Draco, and their dedication to making him feel authentic. obviously you can see the effort in the final film, but to see the ppl behind it talk abt Draco with such affection and enthusiasm…. rly warms me heart…

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

it gives me this weird feeling of joy to still see this blog alive and kicking, and having moved away from the ''cringe'' art to actually providing references and such for better drawing dragons.

yep we’re still kickin’, me and the 5ish followers that still regularly interact lmao

yeahh I was rly happy to shift the blog away from ‘cringe’ way back when, it wasn’t a great time..

-Mod Spiral

[f-nodragonart]

Vertebrate Wings, PART 4: Positions

Keep reading

[exdraghunt]

Woohoo, awesome look at vertebrate flight!

Some notes on Pterosaurs and how well they could fold their wings.

Pterosaur wings were stiffened with unique fibers called “actinofibrals”. These fibers can be thought of as being like the wooden battens of a paper fan, or the quills of bird’s feathers. They allowed the wing to spread out to full span, or to fold up tightly against the body, while keeping the membrane stiff enough for flight. These fibers became shorter and less regular closer to the body, so that the membrane closer to the body of the animal had more flexibility compared to the parts out at the wingtip. The fibers start out perpendicular to the arm, and shift to parallel with the wing finger out at the wingtip.

The most flexible joint in a pterosaur’s wing was where the wing finger (Digit 4) met the “hand” (Note that the other joints in digit 4 could not bend like the fingers of bat wings). I’m not entirely sure how flexible the wrist and elbow were in comparison. But the wing finger could fold almost completely against the “palm”, deflecting slightly to the outside

Please accept my doodled attempts to explain pterosaur wing design for fantasy humanoids. 

(On actinofibrils and wingtips)

[f-nodragonart]

thanks for the info! it def helps visualize the overall flexibility of a ptero wing, in comparison to other wings. also those are fun notes abt anthro wings!

-Mod Spiral