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@fantasyinvader
Edelgard’s death in SS and VW may echo her own death in AM. Namely, it ultimately shows that her goal was never really to fix Fodlan, but rather merely to rule Fodlan.
If we look at AM, it’s pretty clear. She has the parley scene, explaining what she plans to do with society and to Dimitri it’s clear she can’t be talked down because she genuinely believes she is pursuing is the right thing. But then she goes so far as to allow herself to be transformed into the Hegemon Husk, saying that the world can only have one ruler.
And then we look at SS and VW. The lighting makes it seem that unlike in AM, it’s getting through to her. She lost. All her bullshit about being strong by relying on your own strength rather than others, and she wasn’t strong enough to win against the people who teach the ideology she believes makes people weak. People she believed she could defeat easily and turn the entire war around. But she lost, she looks at at Byleth with the light coming into the room behind them, and Edelgard says to kill her. To kill her because otherwise the war won’t stop, and that Byleth must have the courage to walk their own path because Edelgard herself doesn’t have the courage to walk that path herself. And in the event of VW, it’s endings make it clear that there was an imperial loyalist uprising after the war meaning her death was effectively for nothing.
Nothing is said about the Agarthans who engineered this war, who destroyed Edelgard’s family and used her. No, it’s just “kill me to stop the fighting.” Never a thought to the idea that Edelgard herself could simply quit fighting, that she could help her former classmates take down the masterminds of this tragedy, or work alongside them to help fix Fodlan’s issues after the war. Because that would mean working towards a vision of Fodlan that she didn’t start this war for.
And the kicker is that in SS and VW, because there’s no parley with Edelgard to expose exactly what she’s after, we’re left with “Fodlan’s next ruler will be based on merit rather than blood, just like Edelgard wanted.” But with AM, we know that wasn’t Edelgard’s actual goal. Hell, in the Japanese text of CF she’s very clear that her path is hadou, just like Claude calls it in VW. Edelgard is using her power to force her will upon the people, that’s the path she has chosen.
So if we look at it all, according to Edelgard herself she walks the path of hadou in CF just like Claude accuses in VW, AM makes it clear she wants to rule the world and impose her strict beliefs on it, and in SS and VW (where we don’t learn what her actual beliefs are) the scene implies she’s seeing the light but she instead demands to die rather than try to fix things. Everyone wants to spare her, they’re reaching out to her, but she just keeps talking about how she wants to kill her former classmates. When Dimitri reaches out to her, she tries to kill him. When facing Byleth instead,she demands Byleth kills her rather than walk alongside them. And if Byleth joins her, she destroys anyone who stands in her way to impose those beliefs upon the people.
Three Hopes makes it even more clear, Edelgard deliberately ignores the influence the Agarthans have over the Imperial nobility, she was free to reform her own country when they were ousted with the Church's help, Dimitri's reforms are very similar to Edelgard's own (but not the reforms we see at the end of AM in direct opposition to Edelgard's beliefs by giving the people a voice in politics) and he does this with support from the Church. Edelgard declares war anyway, starting by invading the Alliance.
Edelgard didn’t want to save the world, she just wanted to rule it as a result of her trauma.
The fact that Hubert's enforcement of the Empire leaves him feared by all, what does that say about his wives? I mean, he doesn't marry Edelgard, but you get the likes of Bernie, Shamir, and Dorothea helping him with his dirty deeds done dirt cheap. So if that's the case, if Hubert is so feared because his actions come across more as an open secret, it should affect how they are seen as well.
I think the biggest thing, for me, is the claim that “if Edelgard was a man, you won’t have a problem with her,” because I know of a male Edelgard. Ulfric Stormcloak. Like, I’ve done this dance before. I joined the Stormcloaks my first time, but I didn’t pay attention to the worldbuilding. I just picked the rebels for the civil war questline, ignorant of how much evidence spoke out against Ulfric because I wasn’t paying attention to that.
I didn’t pay attention to how his “Skyrim for the Nords” rhetoric comes with him ignoring the plight of non-Nords within it’s boarders, nor how reliant Skyrim is on trade in order to survive. I didn’t pay attention to how the Empire didn’t actually enforce the ban on Talos worship until Ulfric’s actions made it required to act. I didn’t understand the whole situation with the former high king, how Ulfric used the dragon shouts when the dragon shouts aren’t meant to be used in combat except by the Dragonborn, so even if it was an honorable duel Ulfric betrayed his training as a greybeard to kill the high king and declare himself the new one when Skyrim doesn’t operate like that. There’s the whole moot thing where the Jarls elect the new high king, and at the end of the questline the civil war results in Ulfric having eliminated every Jarl who wasn’t a guaranteed vote for him, even the neutral ones, and he’s still dismissive of the moot. And to top it all off, his actions were what the Thalmor wanted even if they didn’t want him to win. He weakened the Empire, and splits Skyrim and the Nords off from the united defence needed against the Thalmor. And the more you dig into his allies, the worse it looks with the slavery, racial discrimination, ties to organized crime and just plain incompetence.
I just saw rebels and empire, doing what our culture has taught us to do. But under it all, Ulfric wasn’t the hero I thought he would be and I gave him the throne. The man who talks about Skyrim’s traditions but undermines them whenever they get in the way. The man who saw the return of Alduin, the end time prophesy of his people, and focused on the war when said war is part of the prophesy. The man who doesn’t give a shit about the mythical Dragonborn being right in front of him unless the Dragonborn will bend the knee to him. A Nord-supremacist who sets his homeland on fire so he can have the crown.
Ulfric is the male equivalent of Edelgard, except he’s actually a rebel rather than an emperor. Slight variation, but ultimately the same song and dance.
I'll write more on this when I have the time, but looking at how much s2 backpedalled, it kinda feels like Capcom or someone stepped in to not only reign Adi but to try and make the adaptation align more with the rest of the franchise. Because thinking about season 2, it completely undermines everything about season 1.
Let’s rattle off some things here.
1) The conflict. Humans invading Makai ultimately isn’t about human greed. It and Darkcom are facilitated by Arius, who is working for Argosax over multiple lifetimes in order to grab all the arcana in order to revive Argosax. This includes the chalice that Mundus embedded into his throne. So all of that “humans invade the demon realm for resources?” That was all humans being manipulated by a demon for one specific resource.
2) Speaking of manipulation, this season makes it clear that the White Rabbit was an unwitting pawn of Mundus. Someone Mundus manipulated in order to break down the barriers between worlds, hence Vergil giving him his half of the amulet. As such, White Rabbit’s idea to free Makaians from Mundus by fusing Earth and Makai, allowing Mundus and the other demons in as well, comes across as even more idiotic because he didn’t clue in on Nelo Angelo giving him half of the amulet needed to break the barrier and knowing Nelo Angelo, Mundus’s loyal knight, is Vergil would suggest that Mundus is backing him.
3) Mundus is shown to... massage the truth when it comes to Sparda. So you get the idea that Sparda betrayed the demon race, Sparda turned on Mundus because Mundus was becoming a tyrant like Argosax, or that Sparda created the barrier to rule the human world himself if he couldn’t rule Makai... and these are all coming from Mundus himself. As such, it’s hard to take White Rabbit’s criticisms of Sparda at face value with the knowledge that Mundus both manipulated him and likely created that interpretation of Sparda’s character as well. And on top of this, him making Dante suffer for having Sparda’s blood comes across as even dumber, because he’s listening to the words of a tyrant as to why Sparda is meant to be bad.
4) At the same time, Baines is given some form of redemption. He’s still a religious zealot, but he actually believes in Mary enough to confront Arius prior to Argosax’s resurrection. He’s made out to be a surrogate father figure for Mary, one whose death will haunt her, rather than merely a shitty commander who set refugees on fire. Hell was invading, and he thought his side was going to fight back before realizing his side was being manipulated by a different demonic threat.
5) While humans and Makains were shown living together in the past, the coming of Argosax made both sides revel in debauchery and then Mundus imposed tyrannical order. But at the same time, Mundus has created this social Darwinist outlook, one that Vergil was indoctrinated in for years to the point he can’t abandon it when he learns Mundus was lying to him all along. So maybe demons aren’t inherently evil, but under Mundus they’ve lived in a culture where the strong prey upon and subjugate the weak without mercy. So while there are Makaians who live under the heel of oppression, there’s still enough of a reason to keep the barrier between worlds up to protect humans. And then there’s still how demonic power is tied to a sense of bloodlust and anger, required to Devil Trigger into the angriest Dante in all of canon.
6) Lady learns the truth about what happened to the refugees in season one and is horrified enough to leave Darkcom. She’s clearly haunted by what she did, and how she betrayed Dante at the end of the first season. She also repeatedly gets the shit kicked out of her, compared to complaints she was OP with plot armor last season. They clearly want her humbled... which includes her falling in love with Dante and sleeping with him, only to leave him to hunt down her demonic father. It very much chickified her, alongside turning Lucia into an evil minion of Arius when last season we saw her classic appearance in a cameo. So, really, two of the franchise’s leading ladies got screwed over by this season.
7) And the idea that Vergil is right and we should be on his team? His outlook is warped due to Mundus’s teachings, and in the end wants to defeat Mundus to take Makai’s throne and wage war on Earth himself. So, Vergil’s side is an explicit threat to humanity.
8) Finally, with the whole Arcana and ritual involving an eclipse, it’s clear that the story is going more magic-based rather than trying to scientifically explain demons. Hell, the flashback of Makaians living alongside humans takes a major swing at the idea that Makaians were an evolutionary offshoot of humanity from living in a different world.
Season 2 just destroyed everything Adi went for in the first season, like someone at Capcom stepped in to put an end to his bullshit. We’re getting a season 3 now, so it’s likely they want to finish this. But considering the changes to the timeline, I think we can count adapting 4 or 5 out as Vergil wouldn’t be able to sire Nero, the key to his eventual embracing his humanity. So the smart money says we’re likely going to see Vergil fall to Mundus and be reduced to his mindless slave a la DMC 1, which makes me worried about how they’ll fuck up Trish. But then again, that’s the smart thing to do. Adi could just try to steer it into a misguided attempt to adapt 4, maybe making Nero Dante’s half-brother or something rather than his nephew.
Learning about Mixtape and its drama-discourse is utterly fascinating to me not because of the usual "Games Journalists (TM) have different priorities than Gamers (TM)" business but -
I cannot for the life of me figure out what makes this story a '90s nostalgic trip beyond that someone's hyping up the old school process of making mixtapes on cassettes and sharing them around and/or burning CDs?
Which... if this game is set in 1999 makes even less sense because by that point the Internet was gaining prominence, Y2K was hanging over everyone's heads, and a lot of other little things that make me go ????
anyway... weirdly, Gravity Falls still catches the vibes of the 90s the best
There is an interpretation of Mixtape I feel works.
It's not a bittersweet coming of age story, but rather how someone looks back on those events. Rockford is portrayed as always listening to music in order to not deal with some form of anxiety, she sets her own memories to music she feels fits the tone, and even tried to set the last day to her mixtape and gets angry when it gets derailed. That's not healthy, because music should complement life not dictate it. It makes music out to be her form of escapism, and her running off to NYC to pursue a career as a music supervisor through the stupidest way possible (basically stalk her idol, give said idol her mixtape and have her idol make her their protegee)... she chose that over spending time with her friends on the roadtrip, and in the end even when she makes up with them she still chooses music over them.
That's sad, but it can reflect a criticism of nostalgia and the idea that music can transport us back to who we used to be. Rockford uses all this music to set up her life, but ends up oblivious to her own shittiness as a result because she portrays her antics in a positive light through the music rather than selfish and immature. This isn't who she was, she wasn't riding a dinosaur, flying through the air, there were no music video-inspired elements, it's all how she curates her memory of who she was at the time instead.
She treats her own memories like a mixtape, linking them to music to control how she remembers them. And through it all, her "everyone's the hero of their own story" main character mindset, she doesn't grasp at how much she hurt and abused those around her. Instead, she just wants to listen to music her whole life even if it means walking away from her friends.
Least, that's my death of the author take on it.
Obligatory "I haven't watched the game itself" statement but - I'd almost believe that if there was a payoff or ending but... doesn't seem to exist there. The nostalgia and behavior isn't examined but indulged as heroic.
It did make me think of The World's End though, if only because its protagonist spends their final night of school acting like a dumb teenager out to rule the world as well. The difference is, of course, that said protagonist gets crushed pretty hard in adulthood and the story is open about his teenage antics hurting himself, everyone else, and becoming extremely off-putting now that he's no longer 18.
Yeah, that's the thing I keep coming back to.
Best I can come up with is the bench on the title screen, how Stacy is on it when the player presses start for the first time and it's empty after the credits play reflecting Stacy ultimately leaving her friends behind despite the ending indicating Slater was in love with her. She left everything for a chance at the dream, and now only has her own curated memories to look back on. Her friends went on the roadtrip with Jenny, made memories together and in Cass's case went to college, all while Stacy flew to NYC to try and live out the plot of a movie. And that, with all the talk about nostalgia, who we were and setting life/memories to music, along with the fourth wall breaks and music video imagery, would indicate that Stacy was not a reliable narrator.
The biggest thing for me is that this tries to be a like 90's movie, but it doesn't actually understand those stories at all. Sure, Stacy can pursue her dream at the cost of her friendships, but the story would then reality check her. She doesn't get the job, maybe a restraining order instead, or she realizes it's not like she dreamed it was. That it wasn't that the world didn't understand her, but that she didn't understand the world around her as she plays victim or finds a means through music to run away from it, and in the end that costs her everything to the point all she can do is nostalgically look back on her self-edited memories of the last night with her friends.
The fact that Beavis and Butthead show more understanding of music when they talk about videos rather than Stacy's trivia makes it clear she doesn't know what she's talking about.
But again, it's one thing if this is all the intention. If it's not, then something went very wrong in the storytelling department.
Learning about Mixtape and its drama-discourse is utterly fascinating to me not because of the usual "Games Journalists (TM) have different priorities than Gamers (TM)" business but -
I cannot for the life of me figure out what makes this story a '90s nostalgic trip beyond that someone's hyping up the old school process of making mixtapes on cassettes and sharing them around and/or burning CDs?
Which... if this game is set in 1999 makes even less sense because by that point the Internet was gaining prominence, Y2K was hanging over everyone's heads, and a lot of other little things that make me go ????
anyway... weirdly, Gravity Falls still catches the vibes of the 90s the best
There is an interpretation of Mixtape I feel works.
It's not a bittersweet coming of age story, but rather how someone looks back on those events. Rockford is portrayed as always listening to music in order to not deal with some form of anxiety, she sets her own memories to music she feels fits the tone, and even tried to set the last day to her mixtape and gets angry when it gets derailed. That's not healthy, because music should complement life not dictate it. It makes music out to be her form of escapism, and her running off to NYC to pursue a career as a music supervisor through the stupidest way possible (basically stalk her idol, give said idol her mixtape and have her idol make her their protegee)... she chose that over spending time with her friends on the roadtrip, and in the end even when she makes up with them she still chooses music over them.
That's sad, but it can reflect a criticism of nostalgia and the idea that music can transport us back to who we used to be. Rockford uses all this music to set up her life, but ends up oblivious to her own shittiness as a result because she portrays her antics in a positive light through the music rather than selfish and immature. This isn't who she was, she wasn't riding a dinosaur, flying through the air, there were no music video-inspired elements, it's all how she curates her memory of who she was at the time instead.
She treats her own memories like a mixtape, linking them to music to control how she remembers them. And through it all, her "everyone's the hero of their own story" main character mindset, she doesn't grasp at how much she hurt and abused those around her. Instead, she just wants to listen to music her whole life even if it means walking away from her friends.
Least, that's my death of the author take on it.
I'll write more on this when I have the time, but looking at how much s2 backpedalled, it kinda feels like Capcom or someone stepped in to not only reign Adi but to try and make the adaptation align more with the rest of the franchise. Because thinking about season 2, it completely undermines everything about season 1.
I was thinking.
Edelgard talking about how she has to appear as though she’ll be someone the people can rely on for support, that’s just the game being brutally honest considering the hypocrisy of Crimson Flower’s ending.
Edelgard says “if people stand tall and support one another, they don’t need gods” when killing Rhea.
Edelgard’s reforms, in the Japanese text, have her consolidate power in order to create a self-reliant society tying into the parley in Azure Moon where she makes it clear she will cut off support for the people.
Edelgard makes it out that she started a war for her ideals and will destroy anyone who stands in her way, yet she says she will never abandon those who believe in her an Id support her ideals. She’ll go out of her way to help her allies because she knows that if she doesn’t appear to support people during this war, they won’t support her in turn. It shows how transactional Edelgard actually is. She promises commoners she will abolish the nobility and promote them based on merit, but at the same time she promises the nobility that she will abolish their duty to the commoners. We even get how Edelgard’s reforms actually oppress the commoners and coddles the nobility, because the nobility have more to provide her while if a commoner is promoted and fails it’ll reflect poorly on her.
Dimitri does the same reforms with the Church’s support, but Edelgard launches the war anyway. This isn’t about fixing a broken world and the Church isn’t the enemy of progress. Those are just PR spin from Edelgard.
And this is something important. The devs said that Crimson Flower leads to hadou. They removed references to Edelgard walking this path in the route, but in Verdant Wind it was called “military rule.” Edelgard’s beliefs lead her to starting a war where she intends to destroy anyone who opposes her, with the end result being depotism. That end does not justify the means. And this whole thing with her portrayal in Scarlet Blaze is trying to make something clear. That speech wasn’t character growth, it was marketing. Edelgard didn’t grow, or at least she wasn’t meant to prior to the localization, she just tried to convince you that she did with your help. She’s exactly the same in Crimson Flower as she is in Scarlet Blaze, which points to how Byleth’s real role in the Black Eagles route isn’t making her a better ruler like with Dimitri or Claude but freeing their class from her toxic influence.
Hopes was trying to get players to confront the truth about Edelgard, making it more explicit than Houses did. But the localization changes reinforced the misunderstanding, because it portrayed Edelgard's growth as the result of Byleth's support rather than Edelgard corrupting Byleth.
I think I'm now stuck with the headcanon that in the original FF7, Aerith did know she was going to die. We see her looking at the Mako leak in the game's intro cutscene, and we see that same image of her face right before the credits roll. What's more, what is the Game Over screen in FF7? A ruined piece of film strip.
The story of FF7 was the path history was supposed to take, the one path where Sephiroth is defeated and Meteor is stopped. But this required Aerith's death and returning to the lifestream in order to work. In any deviation where the party fails, we get the broken film strip representing a doomed future. But when we succeed, we instead get a 500 years later epilogue.
Aerith knew she was going to die, but still went down that path. It makes her the true messiah of the game, the one who died for the sake of the planet, compared to Sephiroth's false messiah/anti-Christ undertones.
And the remake sees things change because Sephiroth became aware of what was the destined path.
Went back to FF13 again.
Man, even after all these years it still looks amazing. And I have to admit, the battle system is growing on me. It's basic with the auto-battle feature, but screwing up your paradigms will get you killed real quick.
I think, looking at all this, it really solidifies that Edelgard is not a redeemable character. Like, sure, the game wants us to sympathize with her but it doesn’t mean that she’s a good person or even can be. It’s not just that her actions are horrible, but the fact is she won’t ever attempt to make amends for what she’s done.
And before anyone brings up CF’s localized ending, we are going by the original script her. What her actual creators wanted for her, not some localizers changing things.
If you join her in CF, supporting her and turning a blind eye to how the game keeps hinting that she’s untrustworthy and shouldn’t be taken at face value, you get her giving a big speech about how if people support each other and stand tall they don’t need gods. Seems like you got through to her, right? The localization alters the ending to make it appear as though you do since she works to create a “free and independent society”, but in the original script Edelgard then goes on to consolidate power on herself, impose the will upon the masses and make a society that is self-reliant. She’ll fully own her path has been hadou in her S support, and even goes so far as to say the land is still in darkness while previously her route’s ending was the only one without sunlight. She believes you and her will be the light...
But the game itself titles the player returning to fight her in the other routes as the dawn.
In short, Edelgard doesn’t actually change or grow, still imposing the beliefs she spells out in AM which also uses Apex of the World as it’s final boss theme... Edelgard is the only one who is in both final battles, and Rhea’s final boss theme in SS is Funeral For Flowers. And in AM itself, Edelgard dies with her back towards the light. She turned herself into a literal monster in order to rule the world, was defeated, and when offered a hand responds with a knife.
Then in VW and SS, the former having Claude call her path out as hadou like she and Hubert do in CF showing they’re the same path, she dies facing the light. She’s been defeated by those she believed she could easily beat. They make it clear they don’t want to kill her, but she wants to kill them so the world she wants will come to fruition. Yet all her actions lead to her on her knees in defeat, telling the player to kill her in order to stop the fighting and to have the courage to walk their path even if it’s across her grave. Again, she doesn’t have to die, and there’s still the Agarthan threat she knows of but keeps quiet about so it’s not like the fighting is over here. But she says she has to die. She won’t enter the light with you, because that won’t lead to the world she was fighting for.
She’s realizing she was wrong... but she’s so indoctrinated by the Agarthans that even knowing the truth and having her beliefs proven wrong to the point the game is framing it as her seeing the light, she’ll still reject it. She doesn’t even have the courtesy to do the job herself, making people who don’t want to kill her do so and give her release.
Edelgard would rather die than live and repent. Would rather embrace complete destruction rather than reshape the world based on her beliefs even as she’s realizing how misguided she was. And it’s that reason she’s irredeemable and incapable of being a good person. Everyone gives her chance after chance to do the right thing, and Girl From Hresvelg makes it out that she was swaying, but in the end she made her decision to go through with the war. She made a choice to do this, and when that choice is shown to be misguided she won’t atone, she instead chooses to die.
And that says some pretty damning stuff about her.
You can’t save her because she doesn’t want to be saved, she wants to be enabled just like how in the classroom she wants to be consoled rather than critiqued when she fucks up. And the war? That’s one hell of a fuck up.
The localization doesn’t just undermine Edelgard’s character with it’s rewrites, it makes the whole thing more juvenile. For some people, they just refuse to get better no matter how much you hold out your hand to them. Not everyone can become better people because not everyone is willing to take that first step, and some people are just willing to abuse their relationships with others for their personal gain. It's like going to AA and trying to claim you don't have a drinking problem. Sometimes, you have to let go of past relationships rather than staying in toxic ones and Edelgard represents that.
Welp, there's finally a character that's treatment in official media is worse than Rhea's.
Lucia from Devil May Cry 2 used to be just mostly forgotten, best she'd get was a cameo in a side novel. She's cool, she's widely considered the best part of DMC2. And then the Netflix cartoon came along...
Season one, she got a cameo where they whitewashed her. Season two, where do I even begin with season two? They gave her some of her melanin back, in exchange for a buzzcut and a secretary uniform. She's made into a card carrying villain that's completely loyal to Arias. The character who begged for death rather than being used to hurt people? Now she'd kill a child without a second thought. She's made about as pathetic as the cartoon makes Dante, only able to pose a threat as part of a group. And then She's killed by the new "adorable" OC, who proceeds to call her, and I quote "stupid ugly bitch."
The final kick in the teeth, the character is only credited as her dead name, "Chi" but the tattoo she was marked with was changed to the Greek letter "Psi." They couldn't even get the simplest detail right! How can anyone defend this garbage?!
...Motherfucker.
Okay, Adi. I'm going to need you to fuck off. Fuck right off and go fuck yourself.
Currently Reading: The original Robert E. Howard Conan the Barbarian stories.
Wants to play: Skyrim, and actually finish the main quest this time.
I definitely do think, at her core, Edelgard NEEDS to believe she is right leading to her ignoring any inconvenient truths about the world. But I think it also reflects that, deep down, she’s cowardly and afraid.
We get hints of this at Gronder. She’s the only lord there who doesn’t lead her army from the frontline, and as her army collapses she flees. The only reason Dimitri didn’t kill her there was because wave after wave of her soldiers stood between him and her, eventually wearing him down and killing him. Likewise, the Japanese script for her manifesto isn’t benevolent, it’s tactical. She’s not trying to open people’s eyes, she’s trying to drive a wedge between her various sources of opposition and preventing them from uniting. Even with Lonato, where Lonato forced his people to fight march against Rhea and Ferdinand is calling him a monster for doing so, Edelgard says she would do the same thing but then says that it’s wrong to think of the civilians Lonato used as victims because “they died fighting for what they believed in.” And Edelgard herself is revealed to conscript the people of the empire into her war, CF even identifies they are uneasy fighting their faith, but Edelgard goes so far as to execute those who resist conscript. They aren’t fighting for what they believe in, they’re fighting for what she’s forcing them to fight for which aligns with the parley scene where Dimitri calls her own on forcing her ideals on others. That same scene has her say if the people don’t benefit from her reforms, they’re at fault for being too coddled and unused to relying on their own strength.
For all her talk about strength and how people need to rise based on their own merits, she is fully willing to accept support from others even as, going by the Japanese text, her reforms involve cutting off support for the people under the belief it will make them strong. So we get character endings like Hubert and Ferdinand’s Japanese ending calling them the twin pillars of the empire, Hubert for his ruthlessness and Ferdinand for his compassion, while Edelgard’s own ending with Byleth still mentions those reforms yet Edelgard reliance on Byleth only grows. Hell, Byleth’s ending title, Wings of the Hegemon, would imply that from the view of history Edelgard’s rise to the top wasn’t on her own merits but on Byleth’s support. Other characters have endings that, despite Edelgard’s reforms, they go on to continue supporting the people (and Yuri in particular gets enough power in the shadows to influence the economy while setting up stuff to support the people). And of course, she’s willing to work with the Agarthans even if she wants to keep that relationship a secret (though, again, the endings indicate people eventually learn the truth).
So, Edelgard’s reforms are hypocritical coming from her especially after her speech when murdering Rhea… yet they’re based on the same ideals that Hopes confirms she starts the war over. So, if anything, if Edelgard is going to start a war based on those ideals she needs to implement reforms based on them despite her hypocrisy over the matter. She won through the support of others, disproving her own beliefs, but defaults back to the beliefs she started the war over.
It’s like she rejects any character growth, but this is actually consistent when we look at her death in SS and VW. She is defeated, she lets go of her signature weapon to clutch the Sword of Seiros, she’s looking towards the light and facing Byleth… and she tells Byleth to kill her. That to stop the fighting, she needs to die, that Byleth needs to have the courage to walk their path even if it’s over her corpse, and her last words are wondering what it would have been like if she and Byleth could have walked together. This event happens even in VW, where there’s no relationship between her and Byleth.
Yet, no one wants to kill her. Everyone is begging her to step down, to stop fighting, but she’s the one insisting it can end no other way. That the others lack self-awareness, that they are only fighting her because of the decisions they’ve made, that they don’t know Fodlan’s history, she won’t hand it over even if Claude’s beliefs are similar to her own, that she will fight to her last breath… yet she didn’t turn herself into a monster like in AM. She believed that Byleth and their allies were weak in SS and VW, that she could kill them and turn the whole war around compared to Dimitri uniting the rest of Fodlan against her. And the idea that it’s to end the fighting? There is still the Agarthans to take out, the people who destroyed her family, not to mention how VW’s endings reveal that after the war the Agarthans engineer an uprising of Imperial loyalists that nearly retake the continent. So, the fighting doesn’t stop simply because she dies.
Edelgard sees the light, she’s realizing her beliefs led to her defeat, so she chooses oblivion rather than walking a path other than the one she’s walked down. She’d rather die than reform, she lacks the courage to face what she’s done. So she’ll instead leave Fodlan in the hands of Byleth, the Church and the Goddess, allowing their beliefs to shape the future even if it was in direct opposition to her own beliefs.
By her own twisted logic, Edelgard is not a victim. She died fighting for what she believed in, or rather she died rather than admit that what she believed in was wrong. It’s a very sad and pathetic end to her, tying into how during the classroom bits she prefers to be consoled rather than critiqued when she fails unlike the other two lords.
Claude and Dimitri both have arcs where they realize they were wrong and change.
Edelgard is the student that simply refuses to learn.
And then you look at all the worldbuilding that works against her diagnosis, she ignores it. She ignores that she knows the Agarthans were the ones to destroy her family and made her into a weapon against the Church, she knows her father was their puppet, yet will still keep repeating the lies she has been fed. She knows the Agarthans want her to wage this war, and she still follows their plans so that she may rule the world herself. The worldbuilding contradicts her claims, showing the Agarthans were the ones behind Fodlan’s issues rather than the Church, and the developers confirmed this intentional. That they created Fodlan to support Silver Snow’s story, to support fighting Edelgard rather than joining her. Joining her, in their words, leads to military rule as she still refuses to change. The would didn't suddenly change to accommodate her, the player just joined her in ignoring reality leading to the loss of their enlightened one status.
That’s the truth the player base is too afraid to admit. That Edelgard isn't a revolutionary, she's detached from reality and her route, according to the devs, is about her killing everyone who stands in the way of her goals. Edelgard sees the light, but does not repent. She does not work to help her victims, her death doesn't benefit anyone but herself. She was always a monster with a god complex, in AM she just transforms physically into one, and in SS and VW she chooses to die as one rather than live as a human.
Saw a take that truly fucking appalled me on Reddit FE:
Honestly, Epimenides is how Agarthans should've been written in 3H, because what do you mean you're doing a whole "every faction is morally complex" shtick except the one group of genocide survivors which are all one note mustache twirling villains? They're people too, and Edelgard isn't wrong to give them a chance.
to 24+ upvotes, with the guy pointing out their crimes getting downvoted.
*ahem*
THEY PERPETRATED A GENOCIDE. THEY ARE NOT COMPLICATED, THEY ARE A PURE CLICHE EVIL CULT LIKE THE CHURCH OF LOPTR AND THE GRIMLEAL AND SOMEHOW WORSE DUE TO THE OVERLOAD OF ANTI-SEMITIC TROPES WITH IT. THEY ARE NOT SYMPATHETIC IN ANY WAY, THEY ARE A CULT WHO WANTS TO WIPE OUT AN ENTIRE SPECIES.
Mother of God, the amount of glazing 3H gets for doing what older games did WORSE while refusing to give the works that actually DO IT RIGHT and HAVE NUANCE (like Nohr) any credit is fucking insanity to me.
People need to be so for real because the fact that they can honestly, truly say that the Agarthans are the ones whose genocide (if it can even be called that to be quite honest, the writers don't know how to describe things they don't care about for shit) isn't cared enough about is crazy.
They were firing fucking nukes all over the place people! They were lighting the fucking continent on fire!!! And then they brutally massacred nearly an entire race of living beings and turned their bodies into weapons. We only know about Epi-pen whats-their-name in the context of the Agarthans having already committed genocide! I don't give a fuck about their perspective on shit to be quite honest.
Also mega lol at "Edelgard isn't wrong to give them a chance" when she literally describes them with the same dehumanizing rhetoric that she does with the Nabateans, she literally can't stand them or their presence in Fodlan and goes on to clear them out completely in CF.
Also, if they're go on about a group of genocide survivors, the Nabateans are RIGHT THERE, the Agarthans were the men behind that slaughter.
Not to mention... Epimenides? Like, dude, you do realize...
...No, of course they don’t.
Epimenides gives us insight into what the secret of the Agarthan’s bodies actually is. They’re not kidnapping people and wearing their skins, they are implanting their souls into bodies and taking them over. There was an accident when Epimenides attempted this on Shez, leaving the Agarthans to believe his soul was lost and Epimenides with amnesia.
Keep in mind, Shez was a child at the time. Epimenides attempted to rob a child’s body of their autonomy, and if Shez doesn’t go after Byleth/Sothis like Epimenides wants them to Epmenides will attempt to completely steal Shez’s body. And with the consequent adventure in the Shadow Realm, we know doing this doesn’t kick Shez out of their body.
Shez is still in there, in the Sunken Place. Same thing probably applies to Tomas, Arundel, Cornelia, and Monica as well. And when this happens, when Shez doesn’t do the thing Epimenides wants them to do, Shez needs to fight and defeat Epimenides in order to retake control their body.
And of course, Epimenides still wants to commit genocide while the Agarthans serve as shadow rulers of the continent behind a tyrant.
I mean, if you really want to cut to the heart of the matter Epimenides attempted to violate child’s body, making it his own, and then when that fails he becomes amnesiac he manages to remember who he is when the child in question works with those who he has been urging them to kill, taking control of the child’s body and the child needs to fight back and kill Epimenides. That is a very fucked up thing, and it aligns with how the game uses Aymr as a symbol of the Agarthans making Edelgard into a monster of their own design.
Epimenides is not a good guy. Maybe he was better when he couldn’t remember who he was as Arval, but when Epimenides comes back to play he kills Solon, his friend, and then tries to say the lords are monsters because they’re willing to kill their own friends. So not only is Epimenides a monster himself, but he’s shown to be a hypocritical monster at that.
Game/Film Theory felt like it really went downhill when it just kept going after every indie horror game or youtube series with vague lore it could find. Like not just it focusing so heavily on FNAF but everything that looked like it could be the next FNAF, and I do admit that Local 58 is pretty damn good the channel really needed more diversity even before MatPat left.
Wisecrack's downfall was even worse.