Hello.

[foxin-around1]

Sammy was a nickname Hannah used first when they were kids ( if you believe the childhood friends theory) that slowly spread to the other Washingtons. Hannah used it the most often and Beth sparingly.

You can't tell me the nickname was unique to only Josh. Look at the Washingtons in their faces and tell me they don't use nicknames for Sam.

[foxin-around1]

If Until Dawn wasn't firmly in the horror genre (as in no deaths, Hanndigo, etc) it would probably be in a coming of age type of genre.

(low-key in a twisted morbid way it kind of is both a horror and coming of age cross genre.)

[foxin-around1]

Did a little dive on the Internet and someone brought up an excellent point.

Just because we don't see Sam searching for Hannah doesn't mean she wasn't, as she still manages to find Hannah during the prank.

The problem in the prologue is the pacing. It's been expanded to include more scenes with the twins and the prank set up and the photos of everyone being friends but Sam's role had been cut entirely.

I couldn't understand why they would still have Sam as being someone who stood up for herself and have one of her traits be bravery but act like that during the prologue but honestly it makes a lot more sense for it to be an oversight in the studio's part.

It makes sense considering we don't see the others set up the prank in OG but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

That said they should have at least added Sam's voice calling out for Hannah in the background even if they won't bother putting her search for her in it.

[foxin-around1]

I feel like Sam and Hannah's relationship goes by a deep show-but-don't-tell rule during the duration of the game. Sam actively pretends to not know what Chris was doing when he tried to give her a subtle space to talk about Hannah before they're completely on the mountain and even Josh was side eyeing her when she didn't understand the score system, something that he definitely believed she should have known considering it might have been a tennis scoring system. One of Hannah's sports.

It's only when Sam goes into Hannah's room that we see her knowledge Hannah in some way and it's strange to say the least because she chooses to focus and comment on the very few clues of Hannah liking Mike in an almost mean fashion. Is it anger? Frustration? Bitterness over what happened?

Or is Sam deluding herself for a moment that Hannah is still around but just outside the room? That she's maybe doing something elsewhere in the lodge and Sam is going to tease when she gets back?her comments lack any tone that Hannah is gone at all.

I cannot say and don't understand the point in getting snarky over something Hannah can't defend herself over anymore unless Sam has been in some sort of denial about Hannah being gone.

The fact as soon as a spirit board is mentioned Sam is quick to leave and take a long bath, long enough to potentially avoid any other interactions.

Even when Emily comes back and tells them about Beth and her theory that Hannah had still been alive Sam doesn't really react to the news. It's like she didn't even hear her right. Or maybe she didn't want to listen to the possibility that Hannah could have been rescued. That they had a month to do it and in that time Hannah had waited, starving and injured.

It's finally when she sees the evidence herself that Sam breaks. Hannah had been in the mines for a whole month and no one knew, maybe not even bothering to check. She waited and starved with only her sister's rotting body for company and eventually succumbed to eating it to survive bc they failed her. It should feel like closure to finally know but the full knowledge on Hannah's fate only makes it so much worse.

And now Hannah had become a monster, something supernatural. And Sam's greatest fear has always been the supernatural.

The last time they see each other, the tone has shifted. Sam can no longer pretend. She looks at Hanndigo now with full understanding, grief, and horror of who they used to be.

And it's one of the few times we see Hannah in Hanndigo's expressions. Hannah's fear and grief in knowing Sam nearby, that she won't be able to save her if the monster part finds her. Bc Hanndigo did look in Sam's general direction and her expression did soften and reveal fear and concern when coming up to where Sam hid.

Hanndigo even showed surprise when she indirectly saved Sam.

The fact Sam didn't even try to fight Hanndigo's hold even knowing it would be pointless. That all she did was look at Hanndigo and take in the parts that were Hannah and maybe finding comfort in that or maybe finally taking in the reality.

Butterfly effect at full circle.

The ending for if Sam lives has her deep diving into the supernatural, something she has been stated to fear deeply. Specifically the legends pertaining to what happened to Hannah and the events of that night.

[foxin-around1]

"Sam is so heartless, she never cared about Hannah-"

I believe that Sam loved Hannah so deeply and so much that when she died Sam couldn't handle even the mention of her name. I think the others said something about Hannah after the prank that had made Sam react badly enough that they didn't dare say her name around her even a year later. Not that it mattered cause it seems she cut contact with them after the prank anyway.

I believe the reason why Chris even brought up butterflies in the first place was to give Sam the room to speak about Hannah before they're around the others and she knew it but acted like she didn't. Because if she got into talking about Hannah right then , she wouldn't be able to stay strong during the rest of the time up there.

And Maybe that's why Josh did what he did to her. Maybe he was angry she wasn't mourning like him, when she wasn't talking about the twins like he was.Maybe he fell in that belief that she didn't care like he did.

I think that Sam loved Hannah so much, that even when she is caught by Hanndigo she still finds comfort in seeing the traces of Hannah in Hanndigo.

If Hanndigo had used Hannah's voice once we would have seen Sam crack hard.

[foxin-around1]

What messes me up is that Hannah was just having a great time with them during that party SHE set up for them at HER house. And then they pulled that "prank" and holy shit the absolute emotional whiplash would have hit so hard bc she was just having the time of her life with them and she was already drinking and it must have felt like everything was turning up gold for her and she was getting her hopes up bc the guy she liked was pretending he felt the same and then BAM!

Suddenly those same people she was having the time of her life with are coming out of the woodwork to mock and laugh bc of course Mike doesn't like her. Of course everyone knew about her crush and thought it was pathetic. Of course they didn't respect her enough to not make her a punchline instead.

And having Sam seemingly knowing and following along?

They didn't even have the decency to leave her alone, they followed her outside and mocked her.

[foxin-around1]

Hanndigo's expressions are so interesting to me bc most of the time she's animalistic; her face is scrunched in a snarl and she walks around on all fours and the way she moves is like a spider.

But then you have brief moments where you can see Hannah in her face.

Examples:

*When Hanndigo picks up Josh in the mines her face is surprised for a split moment before going back to default.

*When sneaking up behind Sam around the end, she's hiding alongside a fireplace and there is a moment when Hanndigo seems to either side eye or look right at Sam and her expression is soft and afraid or perhaps sad before she moves a little further ahead so you can't see her face anymore and then she turns her head with an animalistic expression.

*The last being when Hanndigo caught the miner in the Sam chase scene, it slows down and Hanndigo looks pretty shocked that Sam had gotten away.

I feel this gives more credit to Hannah still being in there somewhere, just unable to do anything to help them.

[foxin-around1]

Example to second point:

[foxin-around1]

What if both Beth and Hannah survive? What if Beth was too late in finding Hannah in the woods and that saved her life? Or what if Hannah had made the decison to let go early so Beth could live and Flamethrower Guy grabbed her in time? What if a different monster found Hannah instead? So many possibilities, so many ideas.

Technically, due to the fact Until Dawn is a game that has multiple timelines, these are all things that could be possible, but wouldn't happen in game bc it would mess with the original story.

[foxin-around1]

How the hell did Hannah even get to the part of the mines with water though?? Like there must have some pathway that no longer exists or something. I got really confused on this because she was severely injured and somehow managed to carry Beth and bury her by the water. Then she went into the water and swam across to the area we found her diary at and kind of stopped there and made another place to settle down. And she must have realized that the door Sam and Mike went through to get Josh led to the dead end for her. Because she couldn't physically do the climbing required because she was too injured at that point and too weak from hunger.

Maybe there was a pathway that the fire tower destroyed when it came down that would have acted as an easier short way to one of the areas.

But it brings up another question for me:

Was Hannah carrying Beth with the intention of burying her somewhere better (by the water being the best she could do) or was she carrying her because she couldn't bear leaving her down there alone?

Did she settle by the water with the intention to make it her stopping point for just the moment or did she low key give up with the intention of dying there when she realized she couldn't go further not only bc it's a dead end but she wouldn't be able to bring Beth anyway?

On an off topic but still related to one I'm talking about, I do believe Beth's head being put on the rocks like that with her coat wrapped around it all was the very last thing Hannah did before she fully transformed and was possessed. Mainly because of how it looks like it was done a bit more respectfully compared to the others and how it's located in Hannah's area and not the original nest where Sam and Mike could find the others.

I think the main area where they fell is Hannah still being human and maybe having hope someone finds her, the water area is where she had given up and given in to eating Beth and maybe her partial transformation, and the return to the main area to place Beth's head was a mixture of Hannah wanting once more to give her sister something respectful and the more monstrous trophy collecting instincts interfered and twisted it to that.

It was a goodbye to Hannah before she was possessed fully and Hanndigo moved permanently to the nest.

[foxin-around1]

I'm going back and forth between OG and Remaster and I noticed that by Hannah's diary in the mines she had a little sleeping area in the Remaster that doesn't exist in the OG. It's just a fenced area.

The water in the mines seems like it takes longer to traverse and there is no smaller ramped area for totem at the end of the water like in remaster.

Lighting, audio, and graphics are different, of course.

The totems in the remaster have you twisting them around to find a crack rather than looking behind it at a hole in the back.

Hannah had a little shelter in the main fall area that is near none existent in the OG.

There is probably more but this is what I've noticed.

[foxin-around1]

I rather chew on broken glass than ever depict Hannah as being the over obsessed Mike fangirl the majority of the fandom does. The comments on Hannah and her crush on Mike is some of the most vile shit I've ever read. She was a person before Mike. She didn't get into horse riding as practice for Mike. That's absolutely disgusting.

Why doesn't Jessica get the same treatment?

I've seen people defend Jessica's flirty looks during the prank and say it was nothing when clearly it was something. They ended up together after all. The fact they got together so soon after Mike and Emily broke up is suspicious as hell.

Jessica was supposed to be Emily's best friend, this whole mess started bc Jess was "looking out for Em". But shes been low-key flirting with him and got together with him as soon as they broke up and that's fine? She's not doing anything wrong?

What happened to hurting Emily's feelings, something everybody loves to say when it comes to Hannah?

(She didn't even care when it went down, she was giggling under the bed.)

[foxin-around1]

It's really such a shame that the Hannah Washington lives AU isn't explored more. The dynamics alone would be so interesting.The reactions to seeing her alive and herself would absolutely take over my life.

The girl who haunts the narrative and the friend group who indirectly or directly, depending what you believe, led to her and Beth's fate. Reunited once again like in so many timelines but Hannah is more or less in control of herself.

And there are so many ways you can go about it too!

Heck you could have twins surviving but thinking the other is dead.

[foxin-around1]

I don't think Sam's issue was that she didn't care about Hannah or that she was more Hannah's best friend than Hannah was hers, I think it's much more that Sam was so deeply grieving that she was avoiding the topic of her while on the mountain, maybe even all together.

I think this shows clearly even at the start of the game, when Chris was telling her about the butterfly effect when talking about meeting Josh for the first time. Important for the player obviously but why for Sam?

It's not until later that you see how deeply connected Hannah is to butterflies that the conversation is put into a new light. Who else would come to mind if not Hannah when butterflies are mentioned?

Chris didn't bring up the butterfly effect randomly as it seems like he did or even for the player's benefit. He didn't decide to randomly tell Sam how he met Josh, his BEST FRIEND, for no reason on the way up the mountain.

Chris brought the butterfly effect up and how he met Josh as an example to subtly give Sam space to talk about Hannah while they were still alone and away from everyone involved in the prank.

And Sam didn't take it. She couldn't take it.

It's only when shes confronted with Hannah herself ( her room, her journal in the mines, Hanndigo) that she breaks.

(I don't think Sam is the type to distance herself bc Hannah was naive or childish. In the rare few peaceful moments where she was happy and safe, Sam is pretty similar.)

(might add on to this later)

[foxin-around1]

I don't know which note was worse, the OG or the remake.

The OG gives you an instant ick factor. It doesn't talk about any shared feelings or a shared connection and it is pretty clear that "Mike" only wants to use Hannah for her body. It's corny and honestly pretty gross. It also makes Hannah look more desperate for anything from Mike, even if it's a one night that would lead nowhere. I feel it also implies she wouldn't care as long as she got something from him. It also gave a reason for Hannah taking her shirt off.

The remake note seems to soften everybody's role by seemingly removing the ick factor and making it more romantic; claiming that "Mike" had felt a connection with Hannah for some time and may have returned her feelings. This I think would be much more appealing to Hannah as a character who is implied to be deeply on the romantic side. But it also makes it so much more personal for "Mike" to also suggest her feelings are returned only to have it all be a joke set up by her "friends". I feel Hannah is more desperate for that romantic connection than anything.

And I believe that's why the remake Hannah takes off her shirt even though the note doesn't say anything about it. Maybe everyone knew Mike would stick around if he got something in return. Just look at what happened between Emily, Mike, and Jessica. Mike and Emily broke up and he got with Jessica shortly after.

Maybe Hannah went into this believing it was going to be a transactional thing anyway.Maybe some part of Hannah lunged for the only connection she assumed she had with this group. Maybe most of Hannah's relationships with this group were in some ways transactional.

(oof I just horrified myself a bit .)

[foxin-around1]

There is a general belief that Sam Giddings doesn't crash out, but I want to introduce the idea that she totally could it just takes a LOT to get her to that point.

I want to believe she crashed out on the group after the prank. Bc she tried to convince them it wasn't a good idea and they still went through with it and it ended with her best friend and Beth dead.

I think so many believe she's immune to anger bc she takes on a level headed role during the main plot of the game but I think it's more that she understands that acting on it doesn't help the situation at hand.

Also she was only there to help Josh, who had already said he wanted them all on good terms so of course she wasn't acting like Emily and Jessica at the start.

[foxin-around1]

Hanndigo's expressions are so interesting to me bc most of the time she's animalistic; her face is scrunched in a snarl and she walks around on all fours and the way she moves is like a spider.

But then you have brief moments where you can see Hannah in her face.

Examples:

*When Hanndigo picks up Josh in the mines her face is surprised for a split moment before going back to default.

*When sneaking up behind Sam around the end, she's hiding alongside a fireplace and there is a moment when Hanndigo seems to either side eye or look right at Sam and her expression is soft and afraid or perhaps sad before she moves a little further ahead so you can't see her face anymore and then she turns her head with an animalistic expression.

*The last being when Hanndigo caught the miner in the Sam chase scene, it slows down and Hanndigo looks pretty shocked that Sam had gotten away.

I feel this gives more credit to Hannah still being in there somewhere, just unable to do anything to help them.

[foxin-around1]

I've heard enough about the documentary to know I'm not considering Season 5 canon.

Honestly I hope no one really does.