“Taylor is a big National fan, and she came to see us play. She talked a lot to my brother and me. We met her in 2014 at Saturday Night Live. She was there when we played. We were a little bit in each other’s orbits, and we were aware that there was this mutual appreciation. When the pandemic hit and everyone was in quarantine, all her plans for 2020 were canceled. She was at home and I guess she thought, ‘Why don’t I reach out?’ She knew that the way I write is by sending sketches to Matt [Berniger, The National’s vocalist], then he writes to them. She reached out in April and said, ‘Hey, would you ever be interested in writing remotely with me?’ At first I asked, ‘Is this really Taylor Swift?’ [laughter] But I had been writing a ton of music at that time; I was preparing to do a solo tour opening for Bon Iver, by myself, in arenas. I’d been nervous and writing a lot of music. Then, when the pandemic hit, I was writing a lot for what I thought was Big Red Machine or The National. So, when she reached out, I happened to have a folder with some of my favorites. I make music to make it, often not knowing what it’s for. Also, the sketches are usually meant to be compelling on their own. They don’t necessarily need a vocalist, and I do it almost as a form of therapy. Sometimes I add vocals to them, but a lot of times they’re instrumental. So, I sent her a folder. She said, ‘Send anything. The weirdest thing you think I’d be interested in hearing.’ My phone lit up a couple hours later, and she had sent back the song ‘Cardigan,’ completely finished, as a voice memo, to the music I’d written. It was almost fully-produced. It was very similar to what it ultimately became. It was so quick; it felt like a lightning bolt hit the house at that moment. The next day she sent another one, and the next day another one. It kept on like that. Then I started to write more, and we clicked. I don’t think either of us expected that, but that’s what happened. With Taylor, I can’t believe how talented and focused she is, and how her musical mind is extremely expansive; what she’s capable of. People know her various phases and different records, but until you work with someone directly, you don’t know what their skills are or what their genius is. Hers is expansive. That’s been amazing to click with someone like that and go toe to toe. She’s very capable, sharp, and an interesting person. That’s the fun thing about being collaborative. I get to learn from people all the time.”
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