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fuzzy-father

i hate when I see people try to reason why the Jedi couldn't free shmi by saying that it would've dragged them into a war with the hutts and slavers on tattooine and/or that it would've brought political unrest between the republic and the hutts and the outer rim.

like...are you seriously telling me that freeing one (1) single enslaved woman that's owned by some random guy would really have affected the entire galaxy and caused widespread unrest or war. It's not like shmi was still owned by gardulla or that she was owned by jabba. Besides, the Jedi could've literally just bought shmi from watto and there would be no need for any problems.

Also...the Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers of the Galaxy. You know what goes against peace in the Galaxy?? Slavery. And it's not like the Jedi have never freed slaves before. One of the things Anakin asks Qui-gon in tpm is if he's there to free the slaves, so the Jedi obviously had a reputation for freeing enslaved people. There's many examples of Jedi freeing slaves in other media including in TCW when they freed the colony of Togruta people from the Zygerrian government, which would've had a much bigger effect than freeing one single woman from a toydarian junk dealer, especially because that took place during an actual war.

It's one thing to say that the Jedi somehow didn't know that Anakin's mom was still enslaved (which is...idk) because qui-gon died with that information, but to try to justify how they could've known but chose not to do anything is terrible.

sammys-magical-au

Also… to say the Jedi didn’t want to start a war over one enslaved woman when they did Exactly That (or at the very least were at the centre of one) ten years later - with an entire army of slaves, mind you! - is, quite frankly, ridiculous

cowboysanddragons23

@fuzzy-father The thing is that the Jedi first and foremost, owe allegiance to the Force. Not the Republic. It's ok, you can say it: "I don't want to admit the Jedi were flawed." It's always the exact same thing with your ilk: A bunch of Obi Wans filled to the brim with toxic nostalgia, blind arrogance and inability to come to terms that the institution you admire was horribly flawed.

fuzzy-father

this is not a pro jedi post at all

cowboysanddragons23

@fuzzy-father I reread it again and I am sorry for misjudging you :) It's just I have dealt with pro-Jedi morons for so long that its difficult to discern sometimes, but I apologize anyways for my lapse in judgement.

fuzzy-father

@cowboysanddragons23 no problem!! I understand the confusion tho, there's been some pretty weird things people have said to defend the jedi

this is not a pro jedi post at all

#again....#jedi critical #interesting point tho is that the Jedi are supposed to follow the force first and foremost #(and in turn strive for peace in the Galaxy)#but during the PT era they were often //too// loyal to the republic and got overly involved with politics #which blinded them to a lot of things that were going on and led to them making bad decisions

fuzzy-father

sammys-magical-au

fuzzy-father

the-far-bright-center

Even the claim that the Jedi 'didn't know' about Shmi is totally ridiculous, how the hell would they not? The entire Council basically read lil' Ani's mind as part of his trial and that's how they could sense his fear for his mother. Qui-Gon met with them privately before they brought Anakin in. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan presumably caught up on the ship on the way to Coruscant. And so on. Not to mention Anakin would hardly NOT TELL a single person about his mother or his background during the ten years between TPM and AotC. And even if the only person he told was Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan would have reported to the Council at certain points. I don't understand how anyone could legitimately argue that the Jedi Order would not know that Anakin was a former slave. Just too ridiculous to even take seriously.

#fr like you think about it and there's no way they didn't know #Like they knew Anakin was a slave and there's multiple instances where Anakin was bullied for it by other padawans #Everyone knew about his background #So there's no way that at least the council didn't know that his mom was still enslaved

#star wars #anakin skywalker #shmi skywalker #jedi critical #Star wars fans should not be allowed to speak on shmi #also I've seen some of these same people say that the Jedi should've gave Anakin to a random naboo couple instead of training him #like omg do you guys ever hear yourselves?? acting like shmi doesn't even exist #sorry if any of this makes no sense I'm tired

mirrorofliterature

the argument that the jedi order simply could not help anakin, that anakin was too different and traumatised and other, because their code and ways of being ultimately were incompatible with anakin skywalker through no fault of the jedi order, makes me deeply uncomfortable

'the jedi order and anakin clashed' yes

'the jedi order couldn't help it uwu it wasn't their fault their rigid teaching methods were so incompatible with such a difficult child' uh, fuck that ableist ass argument actually (and also anakin was not a difficult child... we see in TPM and AOTC how desperately he strives for the jedi's approval and follows their rules even when they cause him suffering... but sure he was regularly getting into fistfights with the other padawans, SURE)

why is it ableist? an institution refusing to make accomodations for a vulnerable child in its care deeply parallels real world educational instutitions failing to accomodate disabled children... which is the argument people are using to defend the jedi order failing to accomodate anakin's needs and trauma (having psychological support/not have his mother in slavery/have a compliment once in a while)... YikesTM is what I'll say

edit: the jedi not knowing how to handle a kid like anakin could have been solved by them applying their immense institutional resources to learning how to help the kid adjust, not throwing their hands up and shoving him into a little box and fans being like 'oh well :) what could they have done :) helpless little galactically powerful religious order'

#it never makes sense when people say that the Jedi could do literally nothing to help anakin #the fandom has a hard time acknowledging that 1. Anakin was not a bad child and 2. the future isn't set in stone #They act like Anakin wasn't this 9 year old newly freed kid who didn't fully understand what was happening #Literally in tpm the only things he knows about Jedi is that they have lightsabers and that they free slaves #People act like Anakin was a grown ass man insisting that he become a Jedi while also planning to break all the rules #But the council is the one filled with grown ass adults who should've handled the situation better #Ik I've said this before but the second qui-gon brought Anakin to the Jedi Anakin became their responsibility #(and even more so after qui-gon dies)#Like damn not one single adult in the entire order thought that this kid needed therapy and a more experienced teacher

marvelstars

Obi Wan kenobi has annoying fans that glaze him up at Anakin's expense with double standars, that's a truth. But,,and I don't wnat to come off as one of those fans, I feel like some people,(not talking about you nor naming anyone) who actually see the flawed man he is,tend to ovecorrect a bit, like him like being a manipulative jerk is all what he is and many feel like he is unsympathetic who didn't deserve a happy ending as a force ghost. How much do you think those reactions are warranted?

Hi Anon

"Obi Wan kenobi has annoying fans that glaze him up at Anakin's expense with double standars, that's a truth"

Agreed, my problem isn´t the fans themselves but when the creators do this they truly bring some complications. I am sorry but an Obi-Wan that was a slave, even for a few days, is an Obi-Wan who would have been way more empathetic to child Anakin in TPM, if just for their shared experiences and he definitely would have not left Shmi in slavery while keeping her Son away from her.

Obi-Wan is a Coruscant raised Jedi who believed the best path for Anakin was to leave all his "attachments" behind (mother, friends, Padme) to truly become to chosen one and bring balance to the force so his training for Anakin was developed around this idea, to write him otherwise breaks movie canon.

This is also my problem with Obi-Wan´s TV series that also break OT canon, it didn´t made sense for Vader to let go of Obi-Wan when he had him captured( it´s obvious the reason was the plot) and it didn´t made any sense for Obi-Wan to be able to kill Vader and stop himself from doing so, because then Obi-Wan desperate need to train Luke in the OT doesn´t make sense and it´s unnecesary, it doens´t make sense he went as far as lying to Luke about his own father so he would unknowingly kill him, which is something horrible that I don´t think Obi-Wan took lightly, I believe it was pretty hard for him to do so. If Obi-Wan could personally kill Vader, he would have done it for the good of the galaxy and spare Luke and Leia from having to do it.

The reason why Yoda and Obi-Wan were in hiding in the OT was precisely because they could not kill Vader and the Emperor, that´s why they need Luke and Leia, Vader and the Emperor knew Obi-Wan and Yoda were stil alive but they didn´t seek them out because they didnt´care about them as long as they didn´t get in their way while ruling the galaxy, that´s why Vader isn´t surpised to see Obi-Wan alive in ANH and why he told him he should not have come back because then Vader is obligued to kill Obi-Wan.

So yes, Obi-Wan fans can get annoying but creators can be a lot worse because they write or make material that literally breaks canon which is why a lot of fans got dissapointed with SW as it wasn´t a coherent story anymore, This has been happening since the ST, it could have been a lot better if they only respected canon.

But,,and I don't wnat to come off as one of those fans, I feel like some people,(not talking about you nor naming anyone) who actually see the flawed man he is,tend to ovecorrect a bit.

From my experience, it´s more that fans want to talk about Obi-Wan in a nuanced way and they can´t because his strongest fans perceive that as an attack of the character instead of seeking to give him his nuance back and so both sides can take to extremes their interpretation of Obi-Wan even when it wasn´t their original intention.

I personally like Obi-Wan quite a lot but it doesn´t seem that way because most of the time I have to talk in Anakin´s defense to give him a little bit of his nuance back, but I like Obi-Wan as we see him in the OT and PT, not the fanon version some fans prefer because they love Ewan Mcgregor and can´t imagine him being less than perfect.

I love Obi-Wan´s sense of humor even if he is a bit of a jerk to Anakin, Qui-Gon, Satine and bassically all his loved ones, including enemies, like Maul, he is sassy, that´s a part of him, he is loving even if he would be damned before he openly says it instead of using sarcasm as a shield, he is extremely loyal, well intentioned, pragmatic, knows how to move fast in a bad situation, loves the Jedi Order as his family with all his heart and also loves the Skywalker family.

That said, I don´t believe he loves Anakin or even Luke more than being a Jedi as some of his biggest fans affirm, most of his motivation in both trilogies and TCW, which are the works approved by Lucas so I tend to treat them as more canon than other material, ObiWan´s priority has always been the Jedi Order, even the reason why he decided to stay on Tatooine to watch over Luke was for the Jedi Order, not for Anakin and Padme, even if he most probably had many feelings for them too.

For Obi-Wan watching over Luke and train him was a mission he had to acomplish to save the galaxy, defeat the sith and bring back balance to the force, that´s why he choose to lie to Luke about his father real fate in order to convince Luke to defeat and kill Vader and the Emperor. He could not allow himself to be more emotionally compromised with Luke or even Anakin´s memory, because that would have stood in the way of his mission for the Order even if there were only Yoda and him around left.

like him like being a manipulative jerk

That said, I don´t believe Obi-Wan is a natural manipulative jerk, he is more like, if the mission needs it I will be the biggest manipulative jerk you have ever seen otherwise I will just annoy you with my ssassines but you will still love me anyway. That´s another big part of Obi-Wan, he can be ruthless when he needs to be, that´s why we are shown in ANH how easily he cuts off the arms of criminals who were menacing Luke, that´s Obi-Wan using his protective steak to acomplish the mission, it´s a part of him but that doesn´t mean he is always like that or that he lies and manipulates because he wants to or enjoys it, he does it when he has convinced himself he needs to for the greater good.

all what he is and many feel like he is unsympathetic who didn't deserve a happy ending as a force ghost. How much do you think those reactions are warranted?

I have not seen fans believing Obi-Wan deserved to not have a happy ending tbh, tumblr is very big so I could be mistaken but in general I believe most fans would have prefered for Obi-Wan to grow old with the Jedi Order and for Palpatine to have failed to take over the galaxy, that´s pretty much general perception from the comments I have seen.

I also wish Obi-Wan would have had a happy ending living with the Jedi and spending time visiting Anakin´s family just as mush as I wish Anakin would have raised his twins with Padmé on Naboo and get back to his original wish to free all the slaves in the galaxy. I see this as an alternative ending that could have happened, they were close to having it and the tragedy is that it didn´t become a reality but that´s also what makes the pathos in star wars so strong and such a significative story for many fans.

Thank you for the question, I hope I get more questions like this one.

lucyskywalker

Obi-Wan was always meant, since the OT, to be a morally complex character. He did not simply lie to Luke. He led Luke toward patricide, knowingly.

He trained Luke to face Vader while deliberately withholding the fact that Vader was his father. He framed Vader as a separate monster who had “betrayed and murdered” Anakin Skywalker, and when Luke finally confronted him with the truth and said he could not kill his own father, Obi-Wan’s answer was basically: then the Emperor has already won.

That was not an accident. That was the point.

Even Yoda, when Luke confronts him, does not say, “You never needed to know.” He says Luke was not ready for the burden. Which means they both understood exactly what they had hidden from him, and why.

And then we have the prequels.

On Mustafar, Obi-Wan did not just “walk away.” He cut off Anakin’s legs and his remaining organic arm, watched him catch fire, listened to him scream, and then left him there to burn alive.

In the very famous Revenge of the Sith novelization, Obi-Wan thinks it would be merciful to end Anakin’s pain.

But he was not feeling merciful.

So he turned his back.

You can argue he could not bring himself to kill Anakin. You can argue he was emotionally destroyed. You can argue he rationalized it through the Jedi code because Anakin was unarmed.

All of that can be true.

But the ending is still what it is: He left someone to burn to death. The same boy he had raised since he was nine.

Obi-Wan is compelling because his morality is broken in deeply human ways. He is compassionate, loyal, self-sacrificing, traumatized, loving — and also capable of cruelty, rationalization, manipulation and terrible decisions while still believing he is doing what must be done. His dichotomy is the point.

And that is why I hate the “Saint Kenobi did nothing wrong” version of him. It makes him boring, and honestly, it breaks the coherence of the story.

And one of the reasons I especially hate the whole “Obi-Wan suffered more than Anakin and never turned to the dark side” argument is because it is a horrifying comparison.

Anakin was groomed by Palpatine since he was nine years old. And that grooming was enabled by serious institutional failure, because somehow a grown politician in his fifties was allowed private access to a vulnerable former slave child.

Anakin was born enslaved. Then he was separated from his mother and his fear, his anger, his passion, his attachment to his mother — everything that made him human and traumatized — became a problem to be corrected, and worse, seen as a danger. As if a child in that situation should not feel fear, when fear was very natural emotion considering what happend and where he was.

Then his mother died in his arms. And then, barely an adult, he was thrown into a galactic war and expected to lead as a general.

Obi-Wan was twenty-five when he met Anakin. He lost his master, whom he loved. Later, he lost Satine, whom he also loved. His life was not easy. I am not pretending it was.

But to say he lost more than Anakin, or that he lived under the same circumstances and simply "choose better", is a terrible lie this fandom has repeated for a very, very long time.

After Anakin’s fall, you can say Obi-Wan lost more in one specific sense: he survived the genocide of his people. He lived with the ruins. Everyone he knew, cared with, his culture. Was gone.

While Anakin lost himself. He was groomed, broken, mutilated, burned, enslaved again under Sidious, and trapped for over twenty years inside a machine that kept him alive in constant pain.

And second: Obi-Wan may not have fallen to the dark side, but that did not stop him from making extremely questionable decisions.

He left Anakin to burn alive, he tried to make Luke commit patricide, then justified the lie afterward with the infamous “from a certain point of view.”

Falling to the dark side corrupts someone almost entirely. But not falling does not automatically make someone virtuous.

And Obi-Wan is much more interesting when the story lets him be what he actually is: not a saint, not a monster, but a deeply damaged man whose love, grief, guilt and morality are all tangled together in ways that are sometimes noble and sometimes horrifying.

#obi-wan and yoda were so wrong for what they did to Luke (and Leia) 😭#I think the only thing I perceive a bit differently is about the mustafar thing #Because unfortunately obi-wan does not have all the facts about what happened #He thinks Anakin fell to the dark side for power (and not because of the visions) and he doesn't realize the extent of the grooming #Of course he knows that palpatine is Anakin's friend/mentor but he doesn't truly comprehend what was going on between them #And then obi-wan sees Anakin actively participated in a genocide of their people seemingly without remorse #And he gets to mustafar and Anakin is talking about how the Jedi are evil and that there's gonna be peace in the new empire #And to obi-wan Anakin just starts choking his pregnant wife because she said she won't follow him #So from obi-wans point of view...I understand why he let him burn because Anakin did commit atrocities for what seemed to be more power #From the outside knowing everything it's like..dude you should've just mercy killed him #It's a shit situation because Anakin is a victim and has been his whole life #But he did commit genocide (including against young children) and even though he wasn't in the right headspace..he did do that #But overall yeah obi-wan isn't a saint and shouldn't be made out to be #The majority of star wars characters are incredibly complex and nuanced and shouldn't be shoved into one box #Which includes both obi-wan and anakin

mirrorofliterature

r2d2 and anakin's relationship breakdown is tragic

funfreezone

star wars conversations are so fascinating to me, especially as they pertain to anakin. i find so many readings of his character uncharitable and in direct contradiction to the source material. quite often it’s to serve the narrative that the jedi are infallible and other times it’s due to a purposefully incomplete understanding of his character. this pervasive idea that anakin was always going to become a genocidal war criminal acting as a puppet for palpatine, flattens his character and story in such an offensive manner. it’s confounding how this line of thinking continues to persist even after all this time.

#it's makes the story so uninteresting when fans flatten Anakin's character

perthshirecottage

Rewatching PM and the scene where the Jedi council meet Anakin has given me some thoughts.

The Council says that they cannot see Anakin’s future. I think that’s because Anakin’s future hasn’t been decided yet. His future will be shaped by the choices that others make. One day Anakin will be an adult who decides to fall to the Dark Side. Anakin does have agency but his direction is influenced by those around him. Right now he’s not an adult. He’s nine and the adults around him are making decisions that will affect his life.

Yes the council cannot say with certainty that Anakin is the chosen one, but they do suspect he could be. And even if they don’t, there is evidence that Anakin was created by the Force itself. For a bunch of people who yammer on about listening to the Force, absolutely none of them do in this scenario. Like the Force could have easily created a kid within Republic space. One that the Jedi would definitely be able to detect and get at a young age and raise with all their rules and regulations. But the Force did NOT DO THAT! No the Force is like here is my son, the one that I intentionally had born in the Outer Rim where you do not go, and where he was so far away that none of you detected him. Also I only led a Jedi there once the boy was old enough to form attachments. A boy who hasn’t become an emotional constipated person. Who feels fear but stands before you with his head held high. Who is feeling emotions but doing the scary thing anyway and not just pretending he feels nothing at all. Maybe you should all look at this kid and wonder what lesson I’m trying to impart here?

And instead of realizing that the Force is literally presenting them with the exact type of child the Force wants, what does the council do? They themselves become afraid and cling even tighter to their ways. They outright reject the notion of a kid with those qualities.

The Force is trying to show the Jedi what balance can look like. That balance is achievable. Anakin at nine is terrified but fearless. He is kind and loving and strong. Despite his fear and his attachment to his mother, Anakin does leave her. He goes to a new world and joins the Jedi and he doesn’t go back for her until he literally can’t ignore the Force anymore. For someone that people claim has unhealthy attachment, Anakin did exactly what was expected of him. Of course he missed her but he let her go to focus on building his life.

Anakin is the most Force sensitive because he was not just born with Force abilities but because he is born OF the Force itself. And what is the Force? It’s a connection between all living beings. So naturally someone with that much connection to the Force is going to want to CONNECT WITH OTHER LIVING BEINGS! Only to end up in a place that says that feeling those connections is bad.

I’m on my first watch of the Clone Wars but it’s very obvious how different Anakin is from the other Masters. We see the difference in Ashoka too because she’s learning from Anakin.

In the episode where Anakin is injured, the other Masters is basically telling Ashoka to start letting Anakin go now. That in order to save everyone, Ashoka needs to focus on those that still have a chance. So just leave Anakin here and focus on getting help for those who can actually use it. Which yes, you can’t jeopardize everyone’s safety for one person who is dying. But also Anakin isn’t dead! The Master is basically like we should resign ourselves to Anakin dying and get help for the living. But the two goals were not mutually exclusive?! Instead of framing it to Ashoka as if you want a chance of helping Anakin, we need to work together to get help for both ourselves AND him. Leaving Anakin to get help was actually the only way to help Anakin. The decision for Ashoka to go was the right choice. The motivation the Master presented was very callous and uncaring. She was so detached that she didn’t actually care if Anakin lived or died. I mean hey if he happens to live that’s nice but helping him certainly wasn’t even on her list of goals.

There’s a lack of balance in that Master’s approach. She is so detached that she doesn’t care about individuals anymore. Only the grand plan of the mission. Balance isn’t becoming cold and unfeeling. It’s not like whelp he’s probably gonna die so we should stop caring. It’s trying to save all individuals while there’s still hope, and only accepting and moving on AFTER they’re dead. The balance is caring even if there’s nothing you can do and letting go after.

When Barriss and Ashoka were buried under the rubble of the droid factory, Anakin refused to give up. Luminaris was like it’s the will of the Force. Barriss was also resigned to her fate. She had taken the lessons of her master and knew that Luminaris wasn’t coming. Both of them were passive to what is happening. It’s like they decided that they had no control over what happens next and should just accept the inevitable. But Ashoka knew from experience that Anakin wouldn’t just sit around and start mourning her until he actually knew she was dead. Ashoka fought because that’s what Anakin taught her to do. Luminaris told Anakin that she hadn’t given up. But like, girl, you literally sat down in the dirt ready to start preparing yourself to mourn Barriss. That’s pretty much the definition of giving up. I guess by not give up she means she’s going to sit there passively and if it’s the will of the Force, somehow Barriss will survive or suddenly have the rubble shift?

Again lack of balance. Barriss and Luminaris are completely passive to the will of the Force. But the Force may connect people but it doesn’t dictate every individual action. You can’t be like I’ll sit here and let the Force do all the work. You have to have the drive to do it yourself. Anakin and Ashoka had the drive to actually save themselves. Ashoka and Barris survived the explosion. Luminaris even stated that she felt their lifeforces. The Force did its part by making sure they survived, now you have to kick in and actually get them out.

These scenarios show that the Masters have become passive and uncaring for individual lives. They have swung too far away from emotions that they themselves have become unbalance. Anakin has the passion and the drive to save the lives of those around him.

It's why a single Sith is able to keep the visions of the entire council clouded for so many years. Palpatine is able to do this because he is actively working to obscure the Force. While there are 10,000 Jedi, they are passive and wait for the Force to choose whether or not to show them anything.

With the Blue Shadow Virus, Anakin is dedicated to saving all lives. Obi-Wan is like, you have to be prepared to sacrifice a few lives to save more. And Obi-Wan isn't wrong. But it doesn't mean Anakin shouldn't try to save everyone either. Ankain pushes himself harder than anyone else, because he wants to save everyone. It's not always possible, but at least he knows that he tried. How is he supposed to live with himself if he just lays down and allows things to happen? Not trying is what happened with his mom, and the lack of doing anything is what haunts him about her death.

When people talk about Shmi's death, the focus is always on how Anakin used the Dark Side to kill the Tuskens. Which, yes, but the thing is, that Shmi's death was actually about how there wasn't any balance. Anakin was having nightmares for a month. He kept asking Obi-Wan about them. And what was Anakin told? To let it go. To not think about his attachments. This is too far in the wrong direction. Everyone knows that dreams can be prophetic. I get the impression that Anakin hasn't consistently had dreams about his mom until recently. I think until that point, Anakin had learned to let his mom go. But once again, because the focus was so heavy on 'don't be attached' that no one looked any further while the Force was sending messages blaring that an innocent woman was being tortured and that something should be done about that! Anakin was pressured into not going to Tatoonie to check for himself and his mom died. Then he swung to opposite direction and was filled with hate and rage. And while yes, a lot of that hate and rage was at the Tuskens, I mean they did hold an innocent woman hostage and literally torture her for a month straight. But I'm sure a lot of his hate and rage was also for himself. Because he had the ability to do something and he didn't. If Anakin had come as soon as he was able and had fought with everything he had, and the outcome had been inevitable despite his actions, he probably could have lived with himself much easier. But in the end, it's obvious that if Anakin had come when he first started having the dreams, he could have saved her since she lasted this long. If the Jedi code had allowed for Anakin to worry and check on someone he cared about when he was having these dreams, a woman would have lived and Anakin would have been balanced in his actions.

I see Anakin as naturally being the most balanced in the Force. By that I mean, that he does what is necessary to save innocents.

When Poggle is captured and the Jedi need to get information to save innocent lives that are being mind controlled by those worms, Anakin does what needs to be done. The Jedi would allow themselves to take the moral high ground and let everyone on the ship die, just to say that they didn't let their emotions rule them. Anakin went in and scared the ever living daylights out of Poggle. But also, Poggle is not some innocent person. He is very gleefully watching the Jedi's fear and knows full well that everyone infected by the worms is being tortured and he's loving in it. There reaches a point where some people are so violent, that violence is the only language they speak. It's very obvious that Anakin used the Dark Side. But he wasn't consumed by it. Anakin used his emotions just enough to get the information he needed. It didn't look like Anakin was enjoying himself, just getting a job done. And once Anakin got what he needed, he stopped. In that moment, Anakin was balanced enough to tap into the Dark Side and be motivated by emotion, while also being able to pull himself back out to do the right thing and save everyone.

When Padme is working with Clovis, Anakin is worked up. Yes, he orders Padme to not go, but he knows he can't control her and is just trying to convince her to stay in the absolute worst way possible. Although most of Anakin's issues with Padme doing this mission stem from the fact that she is an untrained civilian who is being used as a spy and only a small part is because it's with a boyfriend that he had no idea about. And yes, Anakin is jealous. But when Anakin walks in on Padme and Clovis with their arms wrapped around each other, what does Anakin do? He lets it go and walks away. He takes the disk and makes the choice to trust Padme to not let things get too far. He puts the mission above his emotional attachment. Almost like he has the ability to not be unhealthily attached and do what needs to be done. He gives the disk to Artoo and tells him to leave and make sure the mission is a success. He's completed what he has to on the mission, now he can focus on the other half which is checking that Padme is okay. Anakin found balance on that mission between making sure they got what they needed and not abandoning Padme.

The Jedi themselves have an unhealthy attachment. Their attachment is to the Code. When someone is in danger, they are so busy trying to show off how detached they are, that they are willing to passively allow someone they love to die, just to prove that they can let go. The Sith are incorrect in saying people should be ruled by their emotions. But the Jedi are wrong in saying that people shouldn't have any emotions at all. But neither side is willing to budge on their stance. Anakin is caught in the middle trying to be both but that is not what either side wants. For both sides, it is all or nothing. That is why the Force needed to bring balance. It could have easily been that the Jedi council recognized that Anakin was brought to them for a reason, and learned how to become balanced themselves. Instead they clung to their old ways and ended up creating an ultimatum for Anakin. Anakin wasn't allowed to remain neutral. In the end, Anakin ended up destroying the Jedi, but he also killed the Sith. He got rid of both sides that were too extreme. Which allows Luke to restart the Jedi with little to no knowledge of the old ways. Without the influence of needing to be one or the other, Luke will naturally create a Jedi order that is balanced.

#exactly #Anakin is supposed to represent the balance of the force #which is why after he kills palpatine and Luke restarts the order the order is so different than the pt era #The pt era Jedi weren't bad they were just flawed and unwilling to change despite the force bringing them a child like Anakin

mirrorofliterature

I don't like it when people deny anakin's agency in his fall and I also don't like it when people say only anakin (and palpatine) is to blame for his fall.

it's called nuance.

moonandsunnydays

I recently saw TPM and the Jedi council scene is running in my head for a while; so I want to give my two cents about Qui-Gon proposing as Anakin's master.

Starting with the things the film is proving us at this point are:

Qui-Gon seems to be a wise but non conformist Jedi master who has an old Padawan, Obi-Wan, who is about twenty five years old. He finds in a fuck lawless planet the possible chosen one, the Jesus of the space, mind you, who is a kind small kid of nine years old but he is a slave with a bomb in his tiny body ready to explode whenever his master wants. He was able to free this child but not his mom and she gives him her baby boy hoping for a better future and the promise of a jedi training. ( I will not deep dive the moral implication of this for the Jedi order or Anakin).

But surprise of surprise an ancient enemy,who nobody saw for the last century at least, a mysterious Sith just try to attack them and Qui-Gon manages to escape with everybody safe. He arrive to Jedi temple to give his mission's report and Anakin is tested but because he is not a younger child and he is afraid about his mom, the first person who cares for Anakin's safety and well beening, who still a slave with the same bomb and few security net in a fuck up planet. And remember also that it seems the first time Anakin is on another planet with now no certainly about his future. He has no documents, no money or people to go to ( yes, he has Padme but for what he knows she is a handmaid who he could not be sure that they would meet again). This child has also no means to turn back to his old home and it is a chance he returns a slave if not be killed; not to count of cursr of the new Sith lord who just knows at least about this kid's existence, so there is a big danger on the horizon if he took him.

Qui-Gon, who appears to be a reasonable adult and the one who has decided to bring Ani along, in a tentative way to help Anakin and reassure the concil propose himself as a master. I interpreted this as a way to say "He is not a problem, you had not to worry because I will take care of him".

Obi-Wan is obviously hurt and I don't blame him because at the moment he feels rejected but he is also a well established member of the Jedi order, he is mature enough to take his trials to become a knight and he is safe, nothing and I repeat nothing would change his confortable condition. It isn't like Qui-Gon is abandoning him, they could still talks and meet if Obi-Wan needed that. So between the two : an adult who has a stable condition and a kid with a foggy, to say the least, future. Anyone with a bit of heart and head would try to secure the kid.

This rant started ro form while I read some fanfic ( no hate to you guys, I love your works so keep going) witch enfants how Qui-Gon was unfair to Obi-Wan but the movie didn't support it because also Obi-Wan renforces this propose saying that is ready. I think he realizes quickly the situation ( yes I'm aware about the scene when he described Anakin as a danger but that is when the concil as had already pronounced and didn't want to change their ideas; so now it is useless go against it and make no sense for Obi-Wan).

This is not meant to disregard writers's works or people who think differently but to give a non Obi-Wan focus to this scene and give a bit of the spotlight on the Qui-Gon character.

#Everyone always forgets that obi-wan was 25 in tpm #The fandom likes to infantilize obi-wan while adultifying anakin #Not to say it wouldn't be okay for obi-wan to feel a little hurt by qui-gon being quick to say he wants Anakin as a padawan #But obi-wan is able to get over that and agree with him and say that he is ready for the trials #It makes obi-wan feel overly selfish and jealous when people go on and on about how sad obi-wan felt about the situation #Especially when they blame part of it on Anakin #Obi-wan is a grown man AND a Jedi #I think this is also where the problem with fans making the Jedi into one big family comes into play #People just make the Jedi too attached to each other and too emotional when they're not supposed to be #Like they can have emotions obviously but they've been training their entire lives since infancy to be a certain way #So it shouldn't be exaggerated or else it becomes ooc

mirrorofliterature

the jedi order doesn't even permit romantic relationships, let alone marriage, this is an explicit part of the PT, can pro jedi folks fuck off with their 'the jedi wouldn't have ex-communicated anakin for marrying padmé' bs when they didn't initially accept him because he missed his mother, does everything have to be spoonfed to pro jedi folks, who clearly have let fanon overtake canon, oh my god at least stay out of the tags -

#It's so crazy whenever I see people saying marriage/romantic relationships weren't actually forbidden during the pt era 😭#like bro come on it's kinda obvious #The fanon version of the pt Jedi strips away every single value that's core to them #and then those same fans get mad when someone acknowledges any negative thing about the jedi #The Jedi aren't supposed to be a giant love fest family bonded group of people with great mental health resources #They're supposed to have zero attachments even to each other and if they have a problem they're supposed to go meditate about it #and as someone pointed out in the replies obi-wan literally told Anakin he could be kicked out for trying to go back for Padmé...#...because he saw anakin starting to get attached to her. which was not allowed.#obi-wan didn't even know about their romantic relationship atp

chronologyxxx

part of the reason i can't take master yoda seriously in tpm is because he says "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" so confidently, but in anakin's case, the suffering preceded fear

anakin is a little boy, but in his life he has already faced slavery, abuse of various kinds, violent deaths of other slaves through explosion, severe pod accidents, and so on

yoda is so out of touch with reality it's insane, i don't understand how people can deny that the jedi order lives in an ivory tower when their leader says shit like this

#it's always so stupid when someone says “uh well the Jedi ended up being right that Anakin was dangerous when they called him as a child 🙄”#and it's like...well obviously he ended up being “dangerous” because not only was he groomed by a sith lord #but these grown ass adults didn't think to give the traumatized slave child some therapy #the second qui-gon took Anakin from his mother and brought him before the council..he became the jedi's responsibility #he needed help and a way to control his powers before he could become “dangerous”#and the only other option is to return him to his horrible life on tatooine were he most likely would've ended up back in slavery #because he's 9 #and I've seen people say “well the Jedi don't work that way so why should they make an exception for him?”#BECAUSE THATS THE RIGHT THING TO DO??#He was just a little kid he hadn't even been alive for a full decade yet 😭#And every adult around him isn't caring for him properly #His mother knew she couldn't care for him in the way he deserved (because she's a slave) so she gave him to a person she thought could help #And he ends up being dumped on a 25 year old who was in no place or right mind to raise a traumatized child

mandoisdagoat1977

The Dark Lord

mirrorofliterature

yoda's advice to anakin in ROTS was shit

it was meaningless twat

'let that bitch die you must' as the iconic instagram reel said in summary

#Yoda should have deadass asked more questions #Because Anakin is close to some very important people and wouldn't just go to the top Jedi for help about VISIONS for no reason #THINK YODA!!!!#Honestly I think if Yoda tried he could've got it out of him that his visions were about senator amidala and that obi-wan was there too #Then again Yoda would've just said the same shit anyways 😭#Someone once said that they wonder if Yoda's advice would've changed if Anakin was having visions of someone like Mace dying #Then Yoda might've been like “hmmm meditate about this together we must”

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