Or how do you really save the worlds.
Deltarune's main overarching threat is the final tragedy. A life sacrifice to save the worlds.
THE LAST PROPHECY.
THE STORY'S END.
AND THEN. WHEN ALL HOPE
IS LOST FOR THE TALE
THE FINAL TRAGEDY UNVEILS.
TO SAVE THE WORLDS,
THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY.
It is the final and most important thing in the legend of Deltarune. But wait, is it?
The angel sized elephant in the room.
All the way back in 2016 the Deltarune.com had a black image when brightened having wingdings that spell out
THREE HEROES APPEARED TO BANISH THE ANGELS HEAVEN
It is the one of first few thing that toby gave us about Deltarune before even revealing the game itself all the way back in 2018. It is also the one of the first things we learn about the Prophecy from Ralsei.
Only they can seal the fountains
And banish the ANGEL'S HEAVEN.
Only then will balance be restored,
And the WORLD saved from destruction.
Which is odd because in Ralsei telling, banishing the angel's heaven is the way to save the Worlds. Of course Ralsei was hiding the truth about the final tragedy and we know from the Prophecy panels that the angel's banishment comes before the final tragedy.
If the original 2016 wingdings image didn't exist I would've just leave to the whole "Ralsei just lied about the final tragedy" and that's that. But with the fact that part of the prophecy comes from Big Gaster himself I'm thinking about Ralsei original telling a bit deeper.
For one like why put the banishing of the Angel's Heaven with the OG telling? Just to hype the heroes and us up? So that the telling flows better? Like Ralsei could've put any parts of the prophecy (like fighting king in) and it would've had the same effect (I guess the angel's heaven had to involved all three heroes so maybe that). Was it a misdirect to think the banishing of the Angel's Heaven will lead to the worlds being saved or is there some truth with Ralsei telling?
It such a specific part of prophecy and one of the first thing we learn about Deltarune that Toby put in there because it is so important. Which is why find it strange in chapter 4 it took a backseat and that the Final Tragedy took more importance within the narrative. The angel prophecy panel is missable and when interacting the characters only get a vague discomfort from it. But it is there.
A bit of a tangent here but the fact that Ralsei included in the telling in the first place means the banishing of the Angel's Heaven is a good/postive thing right? Like would Ralsei be okay banishing Noelle from existences (unless it's like metaphor for her letting go of the past or something).
Lord of the Hammer
There's a another retelling of the prophecy coming from Gerson Boom. Although the events of Lord of the Hammer and the Prophecy have only superficial similarities, we the player, are supposed to get information about future events from them (i.e The Field of Pink and Gold.)
The most odd part of the LOTH/Gerson prophecy is the way the Roaring is prevented.
Miss, hold on dearly to that thought.
For the tides of fate are drawing close.
And soon, an ocean of ink shall wash across the pages.
But... there is one thing that can overwrite the dark.
A white pen, known as hope.
Miss! I believe... this is what you hold.
This a very direct contrast to the doom and gloom of the Final tragedy. Is it just Gerson just doing this to give Susie hope or just dislike the Final Tragedy he just made his own version of the ending? The weird part about this is that the Prophecy accounts with this. Withe the "THE GIRL, WITH HOPE CROSSED ON HER HEART." with the panel having the girl hold a sword (pen). So it's even more like ???.
There's like three versions of how the worlds are saved.
Ralsei version: Banished the angel's heaven (which we know it's false but Gaster's focus on it makes me think there's some truths in it)
Gerson version: Susie hopecore against the dark (But we know that the Prophecy has a version of that in it)
Gaster's version: A doom and gloom sacrifices (but is that all there is?).
It feels there's a lot of ??? information regarding and how this will all play out and I don't think it's going to be as simple as any of these three versions.
The spring mini newsletter (may 16th 2024) for ch4 update is very similar to the June 9th 2026 Ch6 update
May 16 2024 - ch4
Here's the current progress:
Cutscenes: Only a few ones left (some tough ones)! Other than that, need polish.
Battles: All the attacks are technically done, but still trying to improve the flow of the the bosses.
Overworld: Still need to create around 10 maps! And polish some others.
Gimmicks: A kind of complicated gimmick nearly has all of its iterations made. Then there's whatever needs to go in those 10 maps, and one more thing. (A gimmick is something like the teacup ride from Chapter 2.)
It's my hope that the next time I update you, a first pass of the entire Chapter 4 will already be at least halfway crushed by a steamroller! And, at least some of the team will be moved over to Chapter 5!
June 9th 2026 - ch6
Chapter 6 is developing well.
Cutscenes / NPC interactions: Making good progress.
Overworld gameplay: We've created all the basic gimmicks of the chapter. (Gimmick = climbing, puzzles, etc.) Now, we need to create a few more rooms utilizing these gimmicks.
Normal enemies & bullets: Mostly complete.
Boss & bullets: We are working on the bullets of the last battle of the chapter.
This Chapter is easier to make than the others, so the development is going quite fast. This sounds crazy, but it's not unrealistic that some staff members may start working on Chapter 7 before the end of the year.
Both gimmicks/battles are mostly complete and musing with moving on to the next chapter.
The main content 3-4 deadline was complete in sep 1st 2024
So may 16th -> sept 1st 2024 = 3 months
Translation for chapter 5 started December 19 2025 and finished in April of 2026
Which is about 4 months for localzation and testing started in April 1st and probobly finshed around may so that's 1 month for that
So June 9th + 8 months = some time in February 2027
Some musings about what's going to happened in Deltarune Chapter 6 and 7
When people talk about what's going to happen in chapter 6 it's usually some manner of
Holiday Manor Dark World -> Roaring/Shelter clifhanger
With the final tragedy being saved for chapter 7.
Which is good bet on what will happen in chapter 6 but I can't help think other wise.
Chapter 7 is Weird
Let's start with the main reason why I think chapter 6 isn't going to end like the fandom think. Chapter 7 is just plain weird. Gerson mentioned that it's the chapter of lord of the hammer that didn't get written.
There was only one more chapter... After that,
It all stopped.
That next book, it never did get written.
The story, it became so grand, so overwhelming,
Some say it swallowed up the author himself.
Which shows it's already "out of bounds" of the prophecy. Gerson also mentioned that Chapter 7 of LotH was supposed to be picked up by the next generations. I frankly don't think Gaster is part of that "next generation" category.
Maybe the LotH spiel was meant for the Gerson-Alvin Storyline (Alvin being the shadow of father) and not reflection of what happens for Gaster's Prohecy Chapter 7 for real. Buttttt in chapter 5 it's reveal that Ralsei "Mr study the prophecy for all my life" didn't know the knight's origin or the OG dark world
* H-huh? So wait, that Dark World from a long time ago...
* And Cyber World... they were both...
* ... made by the Knight?
* How long has the Knight been making fountains?
* Making people disappear...?
* I... don't know. This doesn't make sense.
* The Knight... I thought they only showed up...
* ... alongside the heroes... right?
Showing that there's gaps and hidden information that the all powerful Prophecy have. If the main villain of the Prophecy isn't explain within the Prophecy itself what else is beyond it?
Another sign that Chapter 7 is Weird is of course what happen in Ch5 WR. Where Kris and Noelle go out of bounds of the Hometown into Chapter 7 Side B. Now I know some people might disagree with this take but to me Weird Route breaks the Prophecy.
It straight up skips an entire "part" of the Prophecy with it skipping chapter 6. Ralsei says in chapter 4 weird route that diverting might lead to an even worse outcome than the final tragedy.
That there isn't just one ending!
* But...
* What would that be...?
* If there was something else, what would it be...?
* And how do we know
* It wouldn't be something even worse
And yet despite all your "game/Prophecy breaking" actions. You still go to chapter 7. Meaning that you still within the "bounds" of the game. Which if the Weird Route breaks the Prophecy, chapter 7 is immune to that. Which leads to scary implications for chapter 6.
Of course this could all be nullified if the Prophecy is somehow intact in Weird route.
What Did Undertale Do?
It is flawed to try to predict Deltarune based on what Undertale did. But I feel like Deltarune has a similar plot structure to Undertale. Mostly lighthearted stuff than a serious part (waterfall/Chapter 4) than back to lighthearted stuff before the Real Stuff happens (hotlands/Chapter 5). I feel like New Home section which in Undertale had the surface plot (getting to Asgore) get kicked in by the more meta plot of UT (Omega Flowey)
This is all very vibes based but I just have a feeling that's going to happen again in chapter 6.
Miscellaneous thoughts
When talking about starting the Roaring, Gerson states that the white pen of hope will stop it.
But... there is one thing that can overwrite the dark.
A white pen, known as hope.
Which sounds very positive but we know that the Final Tragedy the thing that stops the Roaring has a very negative implication. So it's weird, maybe Gaster version is just evil.
When talking about Dragon Blazers (the other prophecy allusion) it's implied that Ice Palace is the final area of the game
Anyhow, how's Dragon Blazers III?
Beat it yet?
Nah, I'm still at the Ice Palace. * I've been kind of...
... kind of waiting to finish it with you, Dad.
Now I think Ice Palace = Holiday Manor which leaves chapter 7 this out of prohecy thing but who knows.
All in all I feel like Chapter 6 isn't going to be as straightforwards as it seems.
The Thematic Similarities of Gaster and Dess: Let's Us Play A Game
Disclaimer: This article has spoilers for Chapter 5 and Chapter 5 Weird Route. It also assumes Dess is the Knight and Gaster will play a major antagonist force within Deltarune.
When talking about the two central mysteries of Deltarune (Dess and Gaster), people usually treat them as two different things with only minimal overlap. People know that the Knight (dess) is connected to Gaster (the hand hole hands, Shelter being sped up 666% having Gaster noises etc), but they don’t really go into the thematic of why that is. It’s common to see people in the fandom imagine that the Knight subplot and the Gaster subplot are two separate things, but let me be clear they’re very much telling the same story.
A Game Of Play
In Chapter 5 it is revealed to us that Kris made the Flower King Dark World. Which is quite interesting because of how much Chapter 5 Flower Kingdom parallels Chapter 1 Card Kingdom.
The Fields of Hopes and Dreams / The Garden of Hopes and Dreams (literally just remix tracks of each other)
The Rudinn / Floradinn
The Egg rooms are EXACTLY the same.
Yes, what I’m suggesting is that Kris made Card Kingdom. Now this isn’t very new to the theorist space @kenomacreature on tumblr made a very compelling case for this pre chapter 5. But with the new information in hand that Kris created two dark worlds, it’s not a big leap in logic that they also created Card Kingdom too.
Another thing we learn is that the Knight was probably involved with the original dark world too, and wouldn’t it be so perfectly symmetrical for Kris and Knight to each have three dark worlds under their name? Especially since it’s seems so back and worth
Original Dark World: Knight
Chapter 1: Kris
Chapter 2: Knight
Chapter 3: Kris
Chapter 4: Knight
Chapter 5: Kris
Mapping it out like this it seems like it’s a little back and forth between the two. A sort of playground game where one side does this and the other side does that (my infinity is bigger than YOUR infinity etc). Speaking of which.
*Time flies... Seems like just yesterday you and that girl had everyone here lined up.
* Queen on her side, King on your side, Tenna in back... Oh, it was chaos, CHAOS!
* Heh, only kids like you two would take a laptop home just to play make believe.
-Ramb Chapter 3
Not only this is more evidence for Kris Card Kingdom (Both Tenna and King on Kris’s side), but it shows a juvenile make-believe game pre dark worlds between Kris and the Girl. And let me be clear, Dess is the girl that Ramb is talking about.
Even ignoring how much of Dess is in Chapter 3 (Tenna just saying her name out loud, raise your bat, knight). Sure it could be Noelle, but what would be gained narratively to this statement if Noelle was the girl? We already know that she and Kris were close without this statement. It being Dess would add way more to Dess and Kris relationship. Showing a strong bond from childhood that persists all the way to the present. A strong enough bond that Kris is willing to go along to the countdown to the end of the world.
Kris and Dess.
The Cage and the Knight
Still playing that child’s make-believe play all those years later
But that play is merely an echo of a greater game being played
(Note I’m not saying that the Knight’s plan is just to play their game with Kris (the kidnapping plot etc) but I feel like their conflict with Kris is supposed to echo that make-believe game between them as children.)
The legend of this world. <DELTARUNE.>
On October 30th 2018, we were contacted by a mysterious voice from the void. That voice then connects to the world of DELTARUNE. We learn of a prophecy whisper among time and space.
On September 17th 2021, we were then contacted again by this mysterious voice, who connected us to the second field.
On June 4th 2025, we once again were connected by that voice for the third episode and fourth fate. By the end of the fourth fate the voice met us again and congratulated us on our compilation of the halfway mark. Then that same voice proudly declares that the entire experience that we played through was his “DELTARUNE”.
Let’s cut to the chase, we are quite literally playing Gaster’s game. Every time a new chapter drops he connects to the game. Before chapter 5’s weird route, these tweets might have been seen as some weird meta thing like Flowey’s tweets before Undertale. But with the ending of chapter 5’s weird route it is quite more literal. As we see an old crt screen asking us for Chapter 7 Side B. I have to clarify that this is not an essay about if Hometown/light world is “real” but the point is to show that Gaster in some way literally connects us to Deltarune and that he knows how many chapters there are.
But what would be a game without a player? That is where we come in. Gaster needs us because “Deltarune shines brightly with our hope.” No matter what we do, if we fight the knight or not, if we collect the shadow crystals or not, if we break the prophecy with the weird route or not. At the end of Chapter 4 Gaster will still say “WELL DONE”. The only times it changes is if we collect the eggs or do that plus doing none of the “marks”. Still Gaster seems more interested in our actions than frustrated. “WHAT ARE YOU”
That being interested in things rather than the frustration trait of Gaster is quite interesting. Since at the beginning of chapter 1 our wonderful creation (vessel) was discarded and being inserted into our new vessel Kris. Gaster with all his power doesn’t seem to mind this development. Almost like this was the plan all along… but I digress the point is we are in a new vessel, Kris.
Who, interesting enough, is ½ of the plot with the Knight, the same knight who has connections with Gaster and the prophecy (fate is approaching... and it is not on your side.).
Again it’s that thematic symmetry. Us, the player with kris, and Gaster the creator with the knight (although I don’t think gaster is controlling knights like we are with kris).
The Protagonist and the Antagonist
Dess and Kris’s little game between childhood friends is the game we are playing between us and Gaster.
Come Follow Me Into The Dark So far we only talked about Gaster and Dess' connections on their macro representation to each other by both “playing a game” with Us and Kris. But what about them as individuals? What thematic connections do they have on that level? Of course these two are the most mysterious individuals in Deltarune so there is some conjecture from now on. But I feel like Noelle Chapter 5 Weird Route Monologue paints a very common point between these two characters.
*Since Dess left...
* All I've been doing has just been...
* Marching down my path.
* Staying quiet. Getting good grades.
* It feels like... I've just been watching myself through glass.
* Watching someone else move me through my life.
* That's why I want... to do something crazy.Not only did this monologue add to the theory that Dess simply didn’t just get lost/kidnapped but it also adds a possible motivation for why Dess left. If we take what we know about Dess from her room we can clearly see signs of a rebellious girl. The punk rock aesthetics in contrast to the neat holiday aesthetics, the broken items around the room, the canned food. All paints a picture of a girl who is just fed up with Carol's lifestyle. Who wants something more than just Hometown.
*I always wanted to go someplace new, you know?
* ... And Dess... always told me she'd take me.
That desire to leave manifested in her interest in the mysterious Shelter with her taking Kris there and her having the code to the Shelter on her guitar. We know that the Knight showed up when Dess went missing at that Original Dark World all those years ago.
*H-huh? So wait, that Dark World from a long time ago...
* And Cyber World... they were both…
* ... made by the Knight?
* How long has the Knight been making fountains?
* Making people disappear...?
* I... don't know. This doesn't make sense.
* The Knight... I thought they only showed up…
* ... alongside the heroes... right?
* (Kris... did something... happen all that time ago?)
* (And that's... what made your dad... end up like that?)
Could Dess, wanting to break out of her stagnant hometown life and her interest in the dark, like her sister in the Weird route “Want to do something crazy.”
But there’s also someone who is interested in the dark and unknown.
Someone who’s interested in the dark for a very long time.
DARK
DARKER
YET DARKER
THE DARKNESS KEEPS GROWING
THE SHADOWS CUTTING DEEPER
Now Gaster's connection to Darkness is pretty obvious. It's one of the first things we know about him. Gaster’s interest in the dark, unlike Dess, doesn't come from a teenage rebellious desire to break free of a stagnant rule but more of a scientist's interest and curiosity of the unknown. But like Dess that desire of the unknown seems to completely consume him. He fell into his creation and by gerson statements was consumed by his work.
* However, his life...
* Was cut short.
* One day, he fell into his creation, and...
* Will Alphys end up the same way?
*The story, it became so grand, so overwhelming,
*Some say it swallowed up the author himself.
Even though their motivations may differ for seeking it, Gaster and Dess are both individuals who are obsessed with the unknown and darkness. So much so that one shatters themselves across space and time. And the other became lost in it.
This connection to darkness and unknown explains both of their ties to creepypastas and hidden video game secrets. With Gaster being only found with specific fun value events and Dess secret gumball machine.
GUARDIAN
Since these two are our antagonists, what is their ideological clash against our heroes? Well it’s simple really. Look at the Knight and their complete disregard for darkners. Their killing of Tenna, Flowery, Jackenstein. To the Knight the Darkners are just what they are in reality, just objects. This trait could be seen with Dess even before she became the Knight with the broken objects everywhere in the room. Deltarune asks the question of “Can you actually feel things like compassion from fictional things?”. The knight simply retorts that “No, they are not real, so who cares.”
Gaster too reflects this conflict. He may call the lightners “WONDERFUL” but when the worst route is being played, as an innocent girl and her childhood friend are put through hell. Does he do anything to stop it? No, of course not, they’re just video game characters.
We, like in Undertale, could either validate or reject our antagonist ideology. We could either take great care in our character making sure they have the best outcome, recruit all the darkners, fight all the shadow crystal's boss, or we could reject that and treat them as tools for a greater purpose.
Before I go I want to bring up on September 15, 2021, on a Deltarune steam toby showed a scraped game main theme piano sketch. Which he describe the use of said main theme piano sketch
"The arrangement is still really early, but I created this thinking of an animated intro for the game, similar to Wild Arms. I still see it in my head when I listen to the song." "The best part would have been at the end when everyone is running up the staircase as the silhouettes of the bosses from all the chapters show up, and the Knight, standing in a white door at the top of the stairs, turns around and looks at them..." – Toby
I’ve been obsessed with this statement ever since it came out. It’s one of the only looks into the endgame of Deltarune. It involves Knight and White Door. That white door connects to Gaster since that's how we enter the Mystery Man Room all those years ago.
The point of this essay is that the Knight and Gaster are not simply just two different subplots with minimum overlap but one central conflict at the heart of DELTARUNE.
Thank you for reading this if you read this far.
TLDR
-We and Gaster are playing the same childhood game between Kris and Dess
-Dess and Gaster are both consumed by the dark and unknown which explains their tied to creepypastas
-Dess and Gaster both represent an emotional disconnect between fiction which goes against our heroes who value that emotional fiction.
So once again it's time to make a post where it seems like I'm hating on everyone's favorite character. Chihiro is a pretty unique main character, and unlike the main characters of most revenge centered storylines a lot of time goes to developing Chihiro's soft side. He spends the first arc trying to protect a child, in the auction arc he gives up the tool of his revenge to protect Hakuri and even goes out of his way to lecture Hakuri's father for abusing his son. There is a lot of humanity and depth to Chihiro's character and a lot of people use that to ignore the darker parts of his character.
At the same time Chihiro is a mass murderer with a body count in the hundreds at this point. One redditor has the count at about 203 people and it's probably only grown since then.
Chihiro slaughters people en masse without the slightest hint of hesitation or remorse. They're all crimminals yes, low level mooks for the Samura organization or servants of the Sazanami family or whoever Chihiro is fighting this week but that's still 200 human lives. And I'm pretty sure not every single one of the people Chihiro killed kicked puppies every single morning, drank, then went home to beat their wives and children.
Over two hundred people who could have turned a new leaf and done some good for the world if they had lived, who probably had family members or loved ones are all dead and the only reason that we don't really feel this number is the story never really stops to dwell on them. Imagine if Chihiro beheaded one of these guys and then it launched into a five chapter flashback about how this man was just hard on money because he went through so much misfortune in life and he needed money to pay for his wife's cancer treatments, and then in the last chapter of the flashback as the man dies it cuts to the doctor pulling the plug and letting the man's wife die because he wasn't there to make the payment.
If we got to see the story from any of the hundreds of faceless people that Chihiro killed, then Chihiro would kind of come off looking like an asshole but we don't really see that because the story is mostly centered on Chihiro. This is what I mean when I use the term "Protagonist-centered Morality", it's always good to try to pay attention to the way that the story uses framing to support or question the protagonist's actions.
One of the first secnes in Kill Bill is the Bride killing a little girl's mother in front of her, as revenge for what the mother Copperhead did to her years ago. If the story were told from the point of view of the little girl rather than the Bride, the daughter wouldn't care about the Bride's motivation she'd only be focused on avenging the death of her mother. The same way that the Bride can't see that she is actively creating a new victim by depriving a child of a mother, to pursue her own path of revenge.
"Protagonist-Centered Morality" is a term I use when a story wants us not to question the morals of a protagonist, so they tend to cheat using perspective or framing to make it so the protagonist is always in the right. In the example above, you don't really question the Bride's action of killing Coppheread because her daughter never shows up again.
However, I think Kagurabachi is aware of protagonist centered morality and has been trying to subvert it from the get go. The narrative is just attempting to use subtler methods to call out the fact that Chihiro's revenge is not moral or just, and also is incredibly short sighted.
This begins even in the first arc of the story, where Chihiro is forced to acknowledge that while he believed his father created the enchanted blades as tools used to protect others, someone else could interpret those swords as just tools for death and destruction.
The fight ends with Chihiro being forced to agree with the remorseless killer that yes, these swords which Chihiro had always told himself his father created to protect others and defeat evil are ultimately just killing tools.
Chihiro has to accept a point of view that is contrary to his own, and has to conclude that their point of view is equally as valid because despite the fact that Chihiro personally knew his father and knew his father's intentions in creating the swords what he created were nonetheless weapons of mass destruction and it's easy to see how a complete outsider can only see these weapons as what they were created to be... you know... weapons.
Chihiro until this point didn't want to deal with the morality that if you are going to make a weapon, you usually intend for that weapon to be used to kill someone else. Which is something his father even tried to stress upon him up until he died.
The story doesn't have a problem with protagonist centered morality, in fact as I'm highlighting above the very first arc the story is asking the question "How are you any different from this remorseless mass murderer, huh Chihiro?" However, Chihiro himself suffers from a case of protagonist centered morality. Or you could call it egocentrism. Or just plain old fashioned self-righteousness.
Regardless, Chihiro despite being a character who exists in a morally gray place, killing hundreds of people to get his hands on the magical swords so they won't be used to hurt even more people - Chihiro himself has a very black and white sense of morality. In spite of the fact Chihiro is using these powerful swords to rip hundreds of people limb from limb in the most brutal fashion possible, he answers with a simple "These swords exist to defeat evil and protect the weak."
I will give credit never does Chihiro see himself as aligned on the side of good. From the first chapter onward he aligns himself on the side of the monsters, he is an insane person, he is an evil fighting a greater evil.
At no point does Chihiro ever claim that his actions are good, but he does think they are justified. Which are two different things. Chihiro is never on the side of angels, he says multiple times he believes he will be going to hell after all of this is done, however despite knowing what he is doing is wrong he can willfully justify all the people he has killed to himself. He believes deep down that his actions still fall in line with defeating evil, and protecting the weak.
The moments that Chihiro hesitates are when he is not able to see his enemies as an absolute evil to be slaughtered. Chihiro chides himself for feeling empathy for the other members of the Sazanami family and hesitating because he could understand how much they desired to live up to the expectations of their father.
This is a good thing, it's Chihiro's empathy that leads him to occasionally put his revenge aside to help people like the little girl in the first arc and Hakuri. It's this humanity that the story stresses over and over again that makes him a likable character, but for Chihiro seeing any humanity in his enemies is a problem because he needs to be able to do whatever is necessary in order to destroy evil.
Which means Chihiro can't fight unless he sees his enemy as an absolute evil that needs to be exterminated.
This is of course something which the story the story challenges Chihiro on in every successive arc, but it is also his central and most damning flaw. Chihiro narratives his pain in order to cope. He grew up on hearing the story of his father and the men who fought the war wielding the enchanted blades as heroes. He immortalizes his dead father in those stories.
This has led Chihiro to construct a story where he is the protagonist, fighting evil. He may not be the good guy, but the guys he is fighting are still an unquestionable evil that needs to be exterminated for the good of everyone. In spite of the fact that Chihiro is one mass murderer, hunting down other mass murderers Chihiro still tries to divide the world into good and evil, the innocent and the guilty. If he can justify what he's doing as fighting evil then he doesn't have to stop and question his own actions and keep following his revenge story right to the end.
There's a scene in the new Daredevil show where the Punisher, famed revenge based Marvel anti-hero is surprised that the cops are a huge fan of him and have started shooting performing executions of criminals in his name. Despite the fact that the Punisher's entire character and motive revolves around him dubbing himself judge, jury and executioner of whatever criminal he has decided to kill he is surprised that the cops would take after his example. That's basically Chihiro's entire character in a nut shell.
Chihiro does step by step accept other people's points of view even when they contradict with his own all the way from the first arc, but it also always ends with: "Yeah, but I'm gonna kill you anyway."
Even when Chihiro acknowledges the humanity of the people he's fighting against, the only way he knows how to deal with the situation is to cut them down with thicker bloodlust. There's no peaceful resolution or de-escalation in Chihiro's world, he is trying to break the cycle of violence with even more violence.
It reminds me of one of my quotes from Critical Role.
My friends,
I have just taken an audience with the Raven Queen who has snuffed any hope of my redemption, for which I am truly grateful. With new clarity, I can finally see my life as a series of compounding, poor choices. There was nothing I could've done to save my family, yet I still sold my soul in search of vengeance. Later I allowed Ripley to leave, knowing full well she was a greater threat to the world than the Briarwoods would ever be. I traded the world's safety for the belief that I could murder my way to peace; that if I could be a greater horror, it would bring my family back.
Once this lie was shattered I scrambled to find a solution, to make a deal, to undo my mistakes and balance the scales. I now understand that there are no scales, there is no redemption, and no ledger that judges me good or evil. I am free to simply be myself and live with the terrible mistakes I've made.
Chihiro believes the lie that he can murder his way to peace and mind, that if he can be a greater horror than the horror he's experienced then he can somehow right the wrong of his father's death.
Chihiro does entertain the idea that he is not much different than the enemies he's fighting over and over again, but he always falls back on a similiar justification.
Hiruhiko is the opposite of Chihiro in a way. Chihiro was raised by a loving father with stories of his father's heroism in order to give him ideals to aspire to. Hiruhiko is a child assassin, who committed his first murder at a young age raised with absolutely nothing else, just a tool who sees no meaning in life or death.
Yet, at the same time they are both children who's childhoods were taken away from them. They are children who were once innocent but have been now groomed into murderers. They are children who experienced a horrific violence at a young age that make it impossible for them to go back to a normal life. They are children who don't even know what it means to go to school, or to hang out with friends.
Hiruhiko can see this similarity between them while Chihiro doesn't, because again of the way they are inversions of one another. Hiruhiko has nothing, no ideals, no close friends, so he seeks them out. He wants friendship because he's never experienced that before in his life. He seeks out something other than death and destruction, connection with a human being even if he can only understand it through the lens of death because that's all he knows.
On the other hand Chihiro is someone how has friendship, and connections to other people, he has love in his life that he deliberately chooses to ignore in his pursuit of revenge. Chihiro has that love and throws it away because it makes him a better killer, and that is why they are opposites. We all make fun of the "every day I wake up with fresh hatred" quote, but that is literally what he is doing. Chihiro is deliberately stamping out any empathy he might feel for his enemies at every opportunity so he can continue cutting them up into hundreds of pieces.
It's all the more alarming because Chihiro is willing to amend his viewpoints. He is starting to question on some level that maybe the people he thought were heroes weren't heroes after all, and he is listening to Samura who says that no matter what his actions are he's going to hell because killing is an absolute wrong. In fact what he respects about Samura is that he was willing to go to hell in order to do the right thing and protect other people.
However, the point remains that Chihiro doesn't really know any way to peace other than slaughtering his enemies. The thought of de-escalation, or healing never even occurs to him. Even Chihiro's respect for Samura's resolve to go to hell for his sins ignores the fact that maybe Samura can be forgiven. Maybe he can turn over another leaf and work to right his wrongs rather than just going to hell forever and being tortured for his sins. Chihiro is so wrapped up in this narrative of justice and punishment for both himself and others he's completely forgotten that forgiveness and healing exists.
Even Chihiro's current stance that he knows that he is a bad guy and will be going to hell for his murders but he intends to take the rest of the bad guy's with him is incredibly toxic and paralleled by Samura himself.
Chihiro's morality is probably the closest to Samura's right now, the man willing to sacrifice both himself and the other sword wielders for the greater good of preventing another nuke from dropping. However, as righteous as Samura is he is also literally blind.
Samura's belief that if he kills all of the sword wielders and then dies himself, going to hell with the Hishaku will be the utlimate good he can achieve with his life ignores the feelings of his daughter. Samura walked all over his daughter's desire to stay with him, deliberately abandoning her and then erasing all memory that he ever existed from her.
It underlines what I'm trying to get at, there may be a certain amount of selflessness in Chihiro and Samura choosing to walk to hell in order to punish the evil of the world but there's no love or empathy on that path. If you choose the path of revenge, then there's no redemption for you or your enemy.
While Chihiro's line of thinking has progressed to Samura's thinking, that he is not a hero, that murder is evil and what he's ultimately doing is evil to serve a perceived greater good he still does not see any alternative pathway he could take besides walking the road to hell.
However, even if Chihiro and Samura were able to accomplish their goals and the only people they sacrificed in the end were themselves that still wouldn't be a good thing because you can't end the cycle of revenge with more revenge. That cycle is just going to keep cycling. You can't murder your way to peace.
This is shown to us in the horrible secret of the war that Samura was made aware of but Chihiro has not yet.
The the people who invaded japan weren't actually monsters to be eliminated but a nation full of people who surrendered, and who were then mass murdered after signing a peace treaty.
This is the extreme to where Samura and Chihiro's logic of becoming evil to fight evil leads. If there's no surrender no chance for a peaceful reconcilitation or an understanding of both sides, then the conflict is just going to keep escalating until one side completely wipes out the other.
And this is where I'm going to use my famous powers of clairyvoyance for a prediction.
This kid right here who's shown cowering in his mother's arms right before the peace treaties were signed. I am goign to bet that this kid is still alive and that he's actually Yura. The big twist we're going to build up to during the confrontation between Yura and Chihiro is that Yura is the last surviving member of that island nation that was wiped out, and his current plans are revenge for what happened to his people.
At that point whose revenge is right? Or maybe, just maybe... the point is revenge is never right.
About your first thoughts about the "Protagonist-centered Morality" and how Kagurabachi will subvert them. Is that it doesn't really
Like every yakuza we met across are like objectively bad people. Like even Chihiro in chapter 1 was willing to talk to them until he literally sees them hanging bodies in the middle of town. Or when the Hakuri intro chapter have them literally kidnapping kids for dark purposes.
Yes Kagurabachi does make Chihiro victims more complex here and there (i.e Daruma or the Sazanami kids) but in regards to the henchman of Kagurabachi they just cartoon bad guys.
Yes maybe we'll see Hokazano pull a last of us 2 and have one of the gangster kids go on a revenge quest against Chihiro. But hokazano has a lot of retconning to do so if that happens.
