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@gregoriabelow
Horus Rising 6.4
Sigismund and Loken argue because Sigismund insists the crusade will never end because in the (grimdark) far future there is only war. He is right because this is a prequel but also he might just be salty
"‘The Emperor wishes us to fortify the Palace of Terra and guard its bulwarks. This was his word at the Ullanor Triumph. We have been the best part of two years tying up our business so we might comply with his desires. Yes, we’re going home to Terra. Yes, we will sit out the rest of the crusade. Except that I believe there will be plenty of crusade left once we have been given leave to quit Earth, our duty done. You won’t finish this, Luna Wolves. The stars will have long forgotten your name when the Imperial Fists war abroad again.’"
I don't know! I don't know anything! Is this about Sigismund or about setting up the dramatic references to 40k or is who Sigismund is as a character built around wanting him to be the person who would say this?
"Rogal Dorn suddenly towered behind them. ‘Does Sigismund deserve a slap, Captain Torgaddon? Probably. In the spirit of comradeship, let him be. He bruises easily.’"
DAMN Dorn if you don't get slaps nobody gets slaps?
"His voice was low and astonishingly soft, like the lap of water on a distant beach, but there was a strength running through it, like the tension of a steel cable."
Do each of the primarchs have a thing for their voice to be or is it that all of them have voices that are many positive adjectives about strong but also soft but also wonderful?
" a primarch is not like a man, or even an Astartes. I’m not talking about strength. I’m talking about the weight of responsibilty.’" however, "a man, even a primarch, is only as good as the counsel he receives" but "Don’t be insulted, but there is something very human about you, Loken, for an Astartes.’" so primarchs are and aren't men, and astartes flatly aren't anymore.
"‘The Emperor has no like, Loken. There are no gods in this hollow universe to keep him company. So he made us, demi-gods, to stand beside him. I have never quite come to terms with my status. Does that surprise you? I see what I am capable of, and what is expected of me, and I shudder. The mere fact of me frightens me sometimes."
this has finally let me understand how Emps could fail to notice one of his sons had written a book on him being a god. Lorgar's right, the lines are totally arbitrary bullshit. say I'm a man but not like all the other men and not with any peer. call me a god but not literally, just in a beautiful metaphor way that has no metaphor in it.
"Do you think your lord Horus ever feels that way?’
‘I do not, lord,’ Loken said. ‘Self-confidence is one of his keenest qualities.’"
‘I think so too, and I am glad of it."
doubt
"‘They wanted Luc Sedirae or Iacton Qruze. Did you know that? Both names were considered. Sedirae is a battle-hungry killer, so much like Abaddon. He would say yes to anything, if it meant war-glory. Qruze – you call him the “Half-heard” I’m told?’
‘We do, lord.’
‘Qruze is a sycophant."
it sounds like actually "they" all suck if those were the ones they wanted? Apparently nobody respects Qruze even before getting to the sycophanty so why did they want him in the first place. Sedirae really doesn't sound like someone with any business as a council member but Abaddon is already so maybe Dorn's exaggerating. But then Loken seems like he really is crazy naive so maybe it's astartes are all pretty terrible at this and Dorn judged him least bad of a bad lot.
Dorn says he'll be a good no-man to counter all the yes-men but the whole mournival was telling him Horus would want him to say something and then looking at him when Horus looked at him and then he said something and Horus was like yeah love that idea and now Dorn is going you did great doing what Horus wanted today " He is cultivating the air of a peacemaker, for that plays well across the worlds of the Imperium. This morning, he wanted someone other than himself to suggest unleashing the Legions for war.’"
the Horus/Emps Sons/Horus thing, is Horus using his son like he was meant to be used? Would Emps be pissed to find out because he was supposed to rule with an iron fist?
no chaos AU where Emps gets back and declares everything heresy anyway
"My brother Horus needs a voice of reason in his ear, if he is to rein in his eagerness and act in the Emperor’s stead. Our other brothers, some of them quite demented by the choice of Horus, need to see he is firmly in control."
is this before or after Horus and Corax fight over if a frontal assault on a fortified position is the best use of Raven Guard?
Final thought for the day
"Primarch Roboute’s Ultramarines make a good show, but then there are so bloody many of them. The Word Bearers, the White Scars, the Imperial Fists, oh, all have fine records. But the Luna Wolves, ah me, the Luna Wolves. Sigismund, in a straight fight? Do you really think you’d have a hope? Honestly? "
Lorgar mention! The Word Bearers have a fine record? You put them next to the Scars and Fists, Fists who are just behind Horus first and favorite in terms of glory?
Horus Rising 6.3
"‘I just said what I felt. I made it up as I went along,’ Loken admitted.
Aximand frowned at him as if not sure whether he was joking or not.
‘Are you not cowed by these circumstances, Horus?’ Loken asked.
‘At first, I suppose I must have been,’ Aximand replied in an off-hand way. ‘You get used to it, once you’ve been through one or two. I found it was helpful to look at his feet.’
‘His feet?’
‘The Warmaster’s feet. Catch his eye and you’ll quite forget what you were going to say.’"
oh! it's the line!
and Little Horus who is a son of Big Horus says this, so it that also how Big Horus looks at his own father?
Also later there's "He regarded him now, in calm discussion with the Warmaster; two mythical beings manifest in one room. Loken felt it an honour just to be in their presence, to see them talk, like men, in unguarded fashion. Maloghurst seemed a tiny form beside them." like men to each other but like adults to astartes and what they're saying matters less than being allowed in the room for their talk.
"‘Captain Loken?’ Lord Governor Elect Rakris was approaching them. Abaddon, Aximand and Torgaddon stood aside to let him through. ‘Captain Loken,’ Rakris said, ‘I just wanted to say, sir, I just wanted to say how grateful I was. To take this matter upon yourself and your company. To speak out so very directly. Lord Varvaras’s soldiers are trying their best, but they are just men. The regime here is doomed unless firm action is taken.’
‘Tenth Company will deal with the problem, lord governor,’ Loken said. ‘You have my word as an Astartes.’
‘Because the army can’t hack it?’ They looked around and found that the tall, princely figure of Lord Commander Varvaras had joined them too.
‘I-I didn’t mean to suggest…’ Rakris blithered.
‘No offence was intended, lord commander,’ said Loken.
‘And none taken,’ Varvaras said"
oh this is weird. Rakris was described as a career soldier earlier but blithering seems pretty dismissive. but then again this is pretty close to the way everyone keeps teasing Loken and Loken was putting himself in the guy's shoes earlier about being a career soldier who didn't see staying here as a reward even if he was a lord now.
" I understand when a fighting man is needed and when an Astartes is needed. "
Astartes aren't men. Neither is Horus, because he's a god. But at the same time, everyone has to believe Emps, set above both of them, is just a man.
" The third was much larger. Another god.
Rogal Dorn, primarch of the Imperial Fists, brother to Horus."
Also the god worship isn't limited to astartes thinking about their primarch. All the primarchs are beautifully godly to them.
" Horus had courted his brothers, stilling fears, calming doubts, reaffirming pacts and generally securing their cooperation. He wanted none to feel slighted, or overlooked. He wanted none to think they were no longer listened to. Some, like Sanguinius, Lorgar and Fulgrim, had acclaimed Horus’s election from the outset. Others, like Angron and Perturabo, had raged biliously at the new order, and it had taken masterful diplomacy on the Warmaster’s part to placate their choler and jealousy. "
It's funny to think of anything placating Angron, but Angron had other moods, didn't he?
"A few, like Russ and the Lion, had been cynically resolved, unsurprised by the turn of events.
But others, like Guilliman, Khan and Dorn had simply taken it in their stride, accepting the Emperor’s decree as the right and obvious choice."
or maybe these are just the brothers with just enough social skill to know not to make it a thing.
we're missing…….. well, Corax. Ferrus. Vulkan, Magnus, Mortarion. Konrad. Alpharius. Fifty/fifty loyalists and traitors not getting descriptions (if you could Alpharius being on both sides). It's a long list as it is so I get leaving people off. But also I wonder how much some primarchs just aren't much established in lore? Corax vs Horus gets mined for so much memewise but at the time this was written was there even anything about them?
" Horus had ever been the brightest, the first and the favourite. They did not doubt his fitness for the role, for none of the primarchs had ever matched Horus’s achievements, nor the intimacy of his bond with the Emperor."
I wonder when they start telling themselves that actually Sanguinius was the best and brightest and always had been.
I wonder if the loyalists won if all the primarchs would think Sanguinius had always been first son.
I wonder if REDACTED II might have been the real first until he had to go, and only Horus and Russ know any better after whatever Emps did.
but then it gets weird?
"Dorn and Guilliman both embodied the staunchest and most dedicated Imperial qualities, commanding their Legion expeditions with peerless devotion and military genius. Horus desired their approval as a young man might seek the quiescence of older, more accomplished brothers."
Horus is first in age and first in achievements and first in the Emperor's heart, but he wants their approval like someone looking up to his older brothers.
idk maybe this is down to Loken as an astartes seeing every possible relationship as younger/older. When Horus is looked at by his brothers it's as an older brother and when Horus looks to his brothers it's as a younger brother.
"Rogal Dorn possessed perhaps the finest military mind of all the primarchs. It was as ordered and disciplined as Roboute Guilliman’s, as courageous as the Lion’s, yet still supple enough to allow for the flex of inspiration, the flash of battle zeal that had won the likes of Leman Russ and the Khan so many victory wreaths. Dorn’s record in the crusade was second only to Horus’s, but he was resolute where Horus was flamboyant, reserved where Horus was charismatic, and that was why Horus had been the obvious choice for Warmaster. In keeping with his patient, stony character, Dorn’s Legion had become renowned for siegecraft and defensive strategies. The Warmaster had once joked that where he could storm a fortress like no other, Rogal Dorn could hold it. ‘If I ever laid assault to a bastion possessed by you,’ Horus had quipped at a recent banquet, ‘then the war would last for all eternity, the best in attack matched by the best in defence.’ The Imperial Fists were an immovable object to the Luna Wolves’ unstoppable force."
god damn it's amazing Horus could still get Perty to work with him. Diplomacy really is his true superpower.
And Dorn was found somewhat early but not second, so if Dorn could overtake earlier brothers than Perturabo could think if he just tried hard enough he could finally have a record that'd overtake Dorn's.
Final thought for the day
"extending a hand towards Loken. ‘An old custom of Terra, Captain Loken…’
Loken took his hand and shook it. ‘One I have been reminded of lately,’ he said."
Loken got introduced to the concept of the Terran custom handshakes by the remembrancer at the start but you apparently can't throw a rock without hitting somebody from Terra on this ship. I don't think we've heard of a single human who isn't from Terra yet. Confirmed astartes are their primarch's sequestered harem.
Horus Rising 6.2
"Each one, Loken noticed, had placed a single personal item on the edge of the dais where they stood: a glove, a cap, a wand-stave."
The Imperium is always so weird
What if it's so weird and people are so superstitious because Emps is trying to get everyone to make up random rituals and stuff to bleed off all their soul-religion-energy in useless ways?
Emps solving global warming the ruinous powers by lighting methane soul juice on fire.
"‘Who is that?’ Loken whispered.
‘Regulus,’ Aximand replied curtly. ‘Adept of the Mechanicum.’
So that was what a Mechanicum adept looked like, Loken thought. That was the sort of being who could command the invincible Titans into war. "
He's never seen a single one of the guys who run some of their tech?
wait are the astartes actually a harem situation? is their part of the ship largely kept separate except for when Horus asks specific humans to come by and give them lessons? has Loken just gotten elevated to full wife?
They all bow but the Mechanicum adept bows slow because he clearly hates this whole thing, because Emps was weird about Mars and the Mars cult. I think sometimes the idea is he just really needs them, but I don't buy it. Emps crushes what he doesn't like. Emps installed himself as their god. He could have said his kids were mostly tech watsits that just looked biological to fool the normies and they'd have believed him.
"Massive and limber, a demi-god manifest, wrapped in white-gold armour and pelts of fur. His head was bare. Shaven, sculptural, his face was noble, deeply tanned by multiple sunlights, his wide-spaced eyes bright, his teeth gleaming. He smiled and nodded to each and every one of them.
He had such vitality, like a force of nature – a tornado, a tempest, an avalanche – trapped in humanoid form and distilled, the potential locked in. "
Potential trapped and locked in humanoid form yeah…
Horus wears more than one fur! How many wolves are on him right now, and has the number increased since the Space Wolves became a thing?
"The primarch looked at Loken, back in the shadows of the overhang, and his smile seemed to broaden for a second.
Loken felt a shudder of fear. It was pleasant and vigorous. Only the Warmaster could make an Astartes feel that.
‘Friends,’ Horus said. His voice was like honey, like steel, like a whisper, like all of those things mixed as one. "
Astartes don't feel fear, except for the pleasant thing he feels when a god with a honeysteel whisper voice smiles at him, which definitely fear.
The architect from last chapter is here with Horus " like a father showing off a small child to his brothers."
"‘Our lord the Emperor himself sent Peeter to us,’ Horus told them. ‘He knew his worth. You see, I don’t want to conquer. Conquest of itself is so messy, isn’t it Ezekyle?’"
I wonder if last chapter happens after this. Maybe having Horus enthuse about how much he loves hearing him talk about architecture made him decide to give an extremely long speech to everyone else, and the iterators were caught up in it too.
(also EEEEEMMMMMMMMPPPPPPPPPS use your tyranny to ban the name peter across the galaxy absolutely don't pick one to be the architect who'll build the foundation of your new not-church come on man)
" We are duty-bound to leave them better than we found them, enlightened by the communication of the Imperial Truth and dazzlingly made over as august provinces of our wide estate. This expedition – and all expeditions – must look to the future and be mindful that what we leave in our wake must stand as an enduring statement of our intent, especially upon worlds, as here, where we have been forced to inflict damage in the promulgation of our message. We must leave legacies behind us. Imperial cities, monuments to the new age, and fitting memorials to those who have fallen in the struggle to establish it. Peeter, my friend Peeter here, understands this. I urge you all to take the time to visit his workshops and review his marvellous schemes. And I look forward to seeing the genius of his vision gracing all the new cities we build in the course of our crusade.’"
"‘I am at one with the way he perceives architecture as celebration. He understands, like no other, I believe, how the spirit of the crusade may be realised in steel and glass and stone. What we raise up is far more important than what we strike down. What we leave behind us, men must admire for eternity, and say “This was well done indeed. This is what the Imperium means, and without it we would be shadows”. For that, Peeter’s our man."
even if he's trying to make a big deal about respecting humans and Emps as the Warmaster standing in at the moment, this is too much. he could've said this with the angle that he's so glad this guy is here to handle something he knows jack shit about and made it about staying in his lane like Emps wanted rather than personallu appreciating his skills just like Emps did. Horus is into this.
now I want the AU where Emps is paying an iota less attention and doesn't Monarchia before he hands the job off and see how many years it takes before Lorgar gets appointed Secular Pope by the Warmaster. The primarchs yearn to build golden science catheriels to the Imperium.
I wonder how much they think about the planets they leave behind?
"A governorship was intended to be the ultimate reward for a war-hero’s service, but it seemed to Loken a quietly terrible fate: to be monarch of a world, and then cast away upon it.
Forever.
The crusade would not be back to visit conquered worlds in a hurry. "
do they take it on faith the planets are better off and fail to ever check? do they suspect the planets aren't, and try to hurry onward to preserve what's left of their ignorance? are they unable to think anything else?
"‘…in truth, my commander,’ Rakris was saying, ‘it may be many decades until this world achieves a state of equity with the Imperium."
the remembrancer selection suggests worlds take a lot longer than just decades to be considered equal members. or maybe he measn something more like convincing of the Imperium's rule over them as fair.
"Horus nodded. ‘So we stay here, if we must, until the job is done. We must hold over our plans to advance. Such a shame…’ The primarch’s smile faded for a second as he pondered. ‘Unless there is another suggestion?’"
oh no! not the smile! not that warm, fear-inducing smile! it's fading away!
LOKEN MUST ACT by offering to go down and fix it right now.
He does the diplomancy thing good though "Tenth Company. We were first in, and for that we have been praised, but the praise was not deserved, for the job is not done.’"
"‘An expedient solution would be a weight off my back, sir,’ Rakris said. He smiled. ‘It would be a hammer to crush a nut, perhaps, but it would be emphatic. "
and as we learned earlier, the mighty astartes are used only as a last resort or when you're hungry and want to crack a nut quick.
"A shrewd and experienced soul, Maloghurst’s talents for intrigue and intelligence ideally served him in that role, and had long since earned him the title ‘Twisted’." but now he's also physically twisted by war injuries, but he says he loves the title and keep calling him that, and will the guy called Malo and then gutteral ghost whose name can be literally translated as apple (of knowledge) grove (of Eden) sound turn out to be evil?
https://aeternalatina.com/id-rather-be-in-an-apple-tree/ than a bad boy in adversity. Malo malo malo malo.
a dude called Maloghurst the Ttwisted not turning evil would be kind of fun but also I figure he was evil first and this is later backstory.
But I would call him Galaghurst so readers would think it's a Galahad thing and then omg now that he's evil his new, evil, name is MALOghurst and also it's funny because Gala is still an apple.
then he tells Horus about what the places they can go next once Loken's atomized people's nuts, which is probably references to stuff
" We may consider it a priority to venture forward to this region to reinforce the Imperial presence there.’
For the first time since the briefing began, the smile had left the Warmaster’s face. ‘I will speak with my brother Sanguinius on this matter,’ he said. ‘I would not see his men perish, unsupported.’"
oh so last time the smile fading was fake but this time he's for real
Final thought for the day
I wonder if Horus is just clingy about Sanguinius or if there's a subtle pattern he's noticed of the Blood Angels not asking for reinforcements when they should (because they don't want anyone to see how they act when they're stressed).
Horus Rising 6.1
"He followed Torgaddon down the length of the ante-hall. It was a perilously tall, narrow place, with embossed columns of wood set into the walls that soared up and branched like carved trees to support a glass roof two hundred metres above them, through which the stars could be seen. Darkwood panels cased the walls between the columns, and they were covered with millions of lines of hand-painted names and numbers, all rendered in exquisite gilt lettering. They were the names of the dead: all those of the Legions, the army, the fleet and the Divisio Militaris who had fallen since the start of the Great Crusade in actions where this flagship vessel had been present. The names of immortal heroes were limned here on the walls, grouped in columns below header legends that proclaimed the world-sites of famous actions and hallowed conquests. From this display, the ante-hall earned its particular name: the Avenue of Glory and Lament.
The walls of fully two-thirds of the ante-hall were filled up with golden names. As the two striding captains in their glossy white plate drew closer to the strategium end, the wall boards became bare, unoccupied. They passed a group of hooded necrologists huddled by the last, half-filled panel, who were carefully stencilling new names onto the dark wood with gold-dipped brushes.
The latest dead. The roll call from the High City battle.
The necrologists stopped work and bowed their heads as the two captains went by. Torgaddon didn’t spare them a second glance, but Loken turned to read the half-writ names. Some of them were brothers from Locasta he would never see again.
He could smell the tangy oil suspension of the gold-leaf the necrologists were using. "
So cool! But so ridiculous. It's only been 200ish years. Two thirds of a ship? They're not two-thirds done.
And oil and wood are very far from immortal.
How much is willful ignorance?
"Abaddon’s great white shoulder plates were draped with a black wolf-pelt." just like daddy!
How many wolves do they go through as Luna Wolves? How many planets have wolves for them to get, and pretty enough ones, or do they breed wolves on the ship for when they're out?
"the deck of the strategium.
The strategium was a great, semicircular platform that projected like a lip out above the tiered theatre of the flagship’s bridge. Far below lay the principal command level, thronging with hundreds of uniformed personnel and burnished aide servitors, tiny as ants. To either side, the beehive sub-decks of the secondary platforms, dressed in gold and black ironwork, rose up, past the level of the projecting strategium, up into the roof itself, each storey busy with Navy staff, operators, cogitation officers and astropaths. The front section of the bridge chamber was a great, strutted window, through which the constellations and the ink of space could be witnessed."
"centre, a circular dais of plain, unfinished ouslite, one metre deep and ten in diameter. The commander had always eschewed any form of throne or seat. "
Horus is so good at code switching and shit.
And new people
" Lord Commander Hektor Varvaras, marshal of the expedition’s army, a tall, precise aristocrat in red robes, stood discussing the content of a data-slate with two formally uniformed army aides. Boas Comnenus, Master of the Fleet, waited, drumming steel fingers on the edge of the ouslite plinth. He was a squat bear of a man, his ancient, flaccid body encased in a superb silver-and-steel exo-skeleton, further draped in robes of deep, rich, selpic blue. Neatly machined ocular lenses whirred and exchanged in the augmetic frame that supplanted his long-dead eyes.
Ing Mae Sing, the expedition’s Mistress of Astropaths, stood to the master’s left, a gaunt, blind spectre in a hooded white gown, and, round from her, in order, the High Senior of the Navis Nobilite, Navigator Chorogus, the Master Companion of Vox, the Master Companion of Lucidation, the senior tacticae, the senior heraldists, and various gubernatorial legates. "
"Loken noticed another figure, removed from the main assembly. The man, if it were a man, lurked at the rail of the strategium deck, gazing out across the chasm of the bridge. He was a machine, it seemed, much more a machine than a man. Vague relics of flesh and muscle remained in the skeletal fabric of his mechanical body, a fabulously wrought armature of gold and steel."
Final thought for the day
"The standards of the Luna Wolves and the Imperial Fists hung from the arching roof, either side of the staring eye banner of the Warmaster himself. That great banner was marked, in golden thread, with the decree: ‘I am the Emperor’s Vigilance and the Eye of Terra.’
Loken remembered the award of that august symbol with pride during the great triumph after Ullanor was done."
wait. is the eye thing new? Did Horus look normal before and Emps decided that after appointing Horus as Warmaster and proxy a little eye of Sauron iconography would really get them off on the right foot?
or
what if this is more an intentional Satan thing? what if Horus is supposed to be the bad cop to the Emperor's good glorious golden cop, getting all the shit done that isn't popular and then Emps can come back to take all the credit and none of the blame?
Horus Rising 5
Fifth chapter is Ignace Karkasy the poet's chapter. He doesn't impress me and nothing much else does here either, but I might be being mean.
It opens with this disaster of a public event where some architect with a bad mike and projections that can't handle sun is talking toward a crowd of overheating penned in nobles.
"and what little of his speech came through served only to demonstrate the man had no gift whatsoever for public speaking.
‘…always a heliolithic city, a tribute to the sun above, and we may see this afternoon, indeed, I’m sure you will have noticed, the glory of the light here. A city of light. Light out of darkness is a noble theme, by which, of course, I mean the light of truth shining upon the darkness of ignorance. I am much taken with the local phototropic technologies I have found here, and intend to incorporate them into the design…’
Karkasy sighed. He never thought he would find himself wishing for an iterator, but at least those bastards knew how to speak in public. Peeter Egon Momus should have left the talking to one of the iterators while he aimed the wretched picter wand for them."
but like yeah why didn't the iterators? or at least vet his speech? or tell him that's a speech to give to the people back home on Terra about the cool things their army is doing or at least a speech for a small indoor room crowd and not a big open crowd people whose last city of light you just exploded?
also he keeps complaining about the iterators and are they or aren't they good speakers?
"Karkasy stared at the Titan for a little while. He’d never seen anything like it before in his life, except in picts. The awesome sight of it almost made the tedious outing worthwhile.
The more he stared at it, the more uncomfortable it made him feel. It was so huge, so threatening, and so very still. He knew it could move. He began to wish it would. He found himself yearning for it to suddenly turn its head or take a step, or otherwise rumble into animation. Its immobility was agonising.
Then he began to fear that if it did suddenly move, he would be quite unmanned, and might be forced to cry out in involuntary terror, and fall to his knees."
Is this the psyker effect of someone inside it? Or is he just really emotional and doesn't have a lot of experience so he's easily overawed despite thinking he's worldly?
"Karkasy guessed the VII had been chosen over the Luna Wolves because of their noted genius in the arts of fortification and defence. The Imperial Fists were fortress builders, warrior masons who raised such impenetrable redoubts that they could be held for eternity against any enemy. Karkasy smelled the artful handiwork of iterator propaganda: the architects of war watching over the architect of peace."
I mean that's pretty good but like, if they're so good why did they flub the other parts?
Is this one of those things where the Imperium does have super competent people but they also have no actual power to get anything done so it doesn't much matter?
"Karkasy had waited to see if either would speak, or come forward to remark upon Momus’s plans, but they did not. They stood there, bolters across their broad chests, as static and unwavering as the Titan."
I wonder if they're already aware they're not allowed to?
"Troopers of the Imperial army had been stationed around the hem of the crowd as a precaution. They had been required to wear full dress uniform, and they were so overheated that their sweaty cheeks were blanched a sickly green-white.
One of them noticed Karkasy moving out through the thinnest part of the audience, and came over to him.
‘Where are you going, sir?’ he asked.
‘I’m dying of thirst,’ Karkasy replied.
‘There will be refreshments, I’m told, after the presentation,’ the soldier said. His voice caught on the word ‘refreshments’ and Karkasy knew there would be none for the common soldiery.
‘Well, I’ve had enough,’ Karkasy said.
‘It’s not over.’
‘I’ve had enough.’
The soldier frowned. Perspiration beaded at the bridge of his nose, just beneath the rim of his heavy fur shako. His throat and jowls were flushed pink and sheened with sweat."
the Imperium really has always totally sucked I guess
emps come on these are solved problems
It's bad to make people stand in the sun without water, and it looks bad to do it to your own troops and then they collapse and make you look weak and they're getting crippled by it so they're less useful to you.
And soon somebody does faint and Karkasy uses the disruption to leave to wander the city. Emps. EMPS. This is like going okay you're gonna live under fascism, but at least I can promise that the trains will also never run on time under my rule either.
"The soldier looked up from the papers into Karkasy’s face, as if searching for some essential characteristic of poet-hood that might be discerned there, comparable to a Navigator’s third eye or a slave-drone’s serial tattoo."
Are slave-drones servitors? Or a type of servitor that starts with clones?
"War had ravaged many parts of the city he passed through. Buildings had toppled into white and dusty heaps of slag, or been reduced to their very basements. Others were roofless, or burned out, or wounded in their structures, or simply rendered into facades, their innards blown out, standing like the wooden flats of stage scenery.
Craters and shell holes pock-marked certain pavements, or the surfaces of metalled roads, sometimes forming strange rows and patterns, as if their arrangement was deliberate, or concealed, by some secret code, great truths of life and death. There was a smell in the dry, hot air, like burning or blood or ordure, yet none of those things. A mingled scent, an afterscent. It wasn’t burning he could smell, it was things burnt. It wasn’t blood, it was dry residue. It wasn’t ordure, it was the seeping consequence of sewer systems broken and cracked by the bombardment."
Then he sees wall graffiti, which he can read because other!Emps also enforced the same language for thousands of years.
"Many were bold, angry graffiti, splenetically cursing the invaders or defiantly announcing a surviving spark of resistance. They called for death, for uprising, for revenge.
Others were lists, carefully recording the names of the citizens who had died in that place, or plaintive requests for news about the missing loved ones listed below. Others were agonised statements of lament, or minutely and delicately transcribed texts of some sacred significance.
Karkasy found himself increasingly captivated by them, by the variation and contrast of them, and the emotions they conveyed."
not super innovative here, but there's a reason people keep coming back to ancient graffiti, and mixing that with the people whose destruction your own people did to them, yeah, there's a lot there.
dunno how good his stuff would be though, since the power of it is the rawness of it. Prettying it up into poetry misses the point imo. And he's definitely gonna do that "He felt the muse return, and it made him smile, despite the heat and the mummification of his throat. It seemed apt, after all, that it should be words that brought words back into his mind."
they needed historians of a poetical bent not poets
also he's a traditionalist into moleskin journals and fountain pens why does scifi always miss out on the opportunity to have the traditionalist diehard be the guy into oldschool smartphone dictation.
Every fountain pen filling system known (to me) is catergorized and explained with pictures, fountain pen filling system patents, videos and
"The heat had almost congealed the ink in his nib, but he wrote anyway, copying out such pieces of wall writing as affected him"
USE
A
PENCIL
This is Malcador this is absolutely Malcador Emps is weird but Malcador's the guy carting around the Mona Lisa.
"He had filled almost twenty pages, almost half his chapbook. He felt a sudden pang. What if he had only nine volumes of genius left in him? What if that box of Bondsman Number 7’s, delivered so long ago, represented the creative limits of his career?"
eeeeeemmmmmmmmmmmmmmppppppppppppppppppssssssssssssssssssssss
this is a Terran are there zero science atheists in all of the galaxy? how did you fuck up this much!!!
Because all the remembrancers were born yesterday, he goes super deep into the place and then decides to walk into a bar to get a drink.
"They looked so human, he thought, and realised it was a ridiculous thing to think, because they were without a doubt human. But at the same time, they weren’t. Their drab clothes, their drab manner, the set of their features, their way of sitting and looking and eating. They seemed a little like animals, man-shaped creatures trained to ape human behaviour, yet not quite accomplished in that art.
‘Is that what five thousand years of separation does to a species?’ he asked aloud. No one answered, and some of his watchers turned away.
Was that what five thousand years did to the divided branches of mankind? He took another sip. Biologically identical, but for a few strands of genetic inheritance, and yet culturally grown so far apart. These were men who lived and walked and drank and shat, just as he did. They lived in houses and raised cities, and wrote upon walls and even spoke the same language, old women not withstanding. Yet time and division had grown them along alternate paths. Karkasy saw that clearly now. They were a graft from the rootstock, grown under another sun, similar yet alien. Even the way they sat at tables and sipped at drinks. "
I don't think he ever even barcrawled on Terra. Babby's first encounter with a foreign country.
They don't even bother poisoning his drink and he goes out again to wander.
Then he finds a really pretty building and doesn't know what it is and goes inside and there's a book with writing which means it's a church.
"The sheets were old, and faded, covered with ornate black script and hand-coloured images. This was an altar, he realised. This place, a temple, a fane!"
like maybe it's a textbook? maybe they read from the books of Physics and Reason
"History had taught him about fanes and religious belief, but he had never before set foot inside such a place. A place of sprits and divinity. He sensed that the spirits were looking down on his intrusion with disapproval, and then laughed at his own idiocy. There were no spirits."
he could stand to read more physics for example because he really sounds like a guy who was a christian until five minutes ago. EMPS. EMPS why do you suck so much.
Lorgar may have actually been reducing the overall superstition in a given planet.
there's a lot of rambling by Karkasy about how how these guys are heathens and how stupid people are for being superstitious and how people who aren't him sometimes even believe good old normal human Emps is a god, and what if humanity has an inherent create-god brainflaw, which is a pretty cool question but I'd rather it was asked by someone who wasn't scared the gods he didn't believe in were cranky he'd walked into their temple.
"The Emperor had always refused such adoration in the most stringent terms, denying his apotheosis. Some said it would only happen after his death, and as he was functionally immortal, that tended to cap the argument. Whatever his powers, whatever his capacity, whatever his magnificence as the finest and most gloriously total leader of the species, he was still just a man. The Emperor liked to remind mankind of this whenever he could. It was an edict that rattled around the bureaucracies of the expanding Imperium. The Emperor is the Emperor, and he is great and everlasting."
lmao yeah he's just a man, who is immortal. and also unquestionable. and total leader by virtue of his magnificence and glory.
then he finds soldiers burning (I guess when you have are flamethrowers everything looks like a problem to burn off) the graffiti, and tells them to stop, because he's dumb. Then he wanders a bunch, decides his poetry sucks actually probably because it does and otherwise has a whole crisis. Then he goes back to the bar, and drinks, and then the soldiers show up at the bar eventually too, because they also need food and drink. He yells drunkenly at them about how the Imperium is doomed.
"This city was supposed to last forever, but we broke it and laid it in tatters. Let Momus rebuild it, it will happen again, and again. The work of man is destined to perish. Momus said he plans a city that will celebrate mankind forever. You know what? I bet that’s what the architects who built this place thought too.’
‘Sir–’
‘What man does comes apart, eventually. You mark my words. This city, Momus’s city. The Imperium–’"
eventually the soldiers get so riled they beat him to death.
hopefully now we'll only spend time with the good remembrancers and not introduce another him.
Final thought for the day
"‘Perhaps we are cursed,’ Karkasy told the empty fane, ‘to crave something which does not exist. There are no gods, no spirits, no daemons. So we make them up, to comfort ourselves.’"
how wonderful, then. to live in a universe full of daemons want to comfort us!
Horus Rising 4.2
Loken invited his frenemy remembrancer to hang out on the other side of the wall while he does his mournival initiation.
Now he's off to do that, Feeling No Fear (tm)
"Loken felt no fear. He was not built to feel it, but he registered a trepidation, an anticipation that made his hearts beat. He was, he knew, about to pass a threshold in his life, and he held faith that what lay beyond that threshold would be provident. " no fear just something that's making his hearts beat faster because he's feeling trepidation. not fear. like how earlier he also had no anxieties that needed a talk with what amounts to a spiritual leader he admires.
they feel no fear! normal things normal people not feeling fear need to explain.
"Loken stepped off the causeway into the water. It was shin deep. Ripples, hard black circles, radiated out across the reflective pool. He began to wade out towards the islet, hoping that his feet wouldn’t suddenly encounter some unexpected depth of submerged crater and so lend comedy to this solemn moment. "
valid fear I mean not fear. very valid not fear, because I feel like those guys totally would do that.
also I guess they do not have superhuman balance.
"‘And who is your sworn master?’
‘The Warmaster and the Emperor both.’"
You know what the real problem/rot is though? They can tell this is a potential problem. But they're just so damn excited that they're going to get to rise to the occasion. They'll just be so super loyal to two masters at once that it'll work! So they don't exactly want to follow orders and have a proper chain of command. They want a little fuckedupness because being asked to do the potentially impossible means they get a chance to be more impressive and they want that even more.
"Abaddon bound his mane of black hair up in a silver sleeve that made it stand proud like a palm tree or a fetish switch on his crown. He, like Torgaddon, had been in the Mournival from its inception. He, like Torgaddon and Aximand both, shared the same aspect of straight nose and wide-spaced eyes so reminiscent of the Warmaster, though only in Aximand were the features an actual likeness. They might have been brothers, actual womb brothers, if they had been sired in the old way"
There's a quote set in 40k where another guy's like, Abaddon doesn't just look like Horus he's so identically Horus especially naked that I think maybe he secretly is Horus.
But back when there was a Horus to compare to people were just yeah he looks a lot like Horus, but not crazy like Horus the way Mr. Little Horus here looks.
"Certainly, Loken knew for a fact, all the previous members of the Mournival had been ‘Sons of Horus’. In this respect, he was unique. Loken owed his looks to an inheritance of the pale, craggy bloodline of Cthonia. He was the first non-‘Son’ to be elected to this elite inner circle."
Canon's often hinting there's something or other hinky about Horus and Cthonia. Here we know at the least that Horus doesn't look like a son of Cthonia, and any he takes from there who become his Sons stop looking like they do either.
"‘Few match you in soldiering, Garviel. I’ve had my eye on you, and you proved my interest when you took the palace ahead of me.’
‘Luck.’
‘There’s no such thing,’ said Aximand gruffly.
‘He only says that because he never has any,’ Torgaddon grinned.
‘I only say that because there’s no such thing,’ Aximand objected. ‘Science has shown us this. There is no luck. There is only success or the lack of it.’"
I am disapproving so hard of whatever iterators were supposed to be teaching these guys. This is a superstition vs superstition slapfight with none of the supposed Emplight of reason. Axi buddy what you are saying is even more uunscientific. Random chance does not prove someone's personal success!
"Loken nodded again. His feeling of being unnerved had returned, sharp and unwelcome. This was a ritual, and it smacked dangerously of the practices of corpse-whisperers and spiritualists. The entire process seemed shot through with superstition and arcane worship, the sort of spiritual unreason Sindermann had taught him to rail against.
He felt he had to say something before it was too late. ‘I am a man of faith,’ he said softly, ‘and that faith is the truth of the Imperium. I will not bow to any fane or acknowledge any spirit. I own only the empirical clarity of Imperial Truth.’"
Good on him for living up to the naysayer thing!
"‘This is just an old habit, a practice. The way it has always been done,’ Torgaddon said. ‘We keep it up for no other reason than it seems to make it matter. It’s… pantomime, I suppose.’
‘Yes, pantomime,’ agreed Abaddon.
‘We want this moment to be special to you, Garviel,’ Aximand said. ‘We want you to remember it. We believe it’s important to mark an induction with a sense of ceremony and occasion, so we use the old ways. Perhaps that’s just theatrical of us, but we find it reassuring.’"
this is something I think is a real question. Can you get the social effect of rituals without going religious with them? But it doesn't seem like they ever got rid of religion. It's more of an exercise in how many ways can people be religious without realizing it.
Over in the other side of the story the chapter ends with "‘A winning hand,’ Mersadie murmured. Coincidence, and something she privately believed in, called fate, had just opened the future up to her." stop believing in stuff! Stop it!
Also astartes are officially immortal! Although nobody's proven it.
"Immortal, but not invulnerable. Yes, they might live forever, but they would never get the chance. Immortality was a by-product of their Astartes strengths, but those strengths had been gene-built for combat. They had been born immortal only to die in war. That was the way of it. Brief, bright lives."
you guys live hundreds upon hundreds of years tho
Maybe they just can't think about time right and everything always feels new.
"Only the beloved Emperor, who had left the warring behind, would truly live forever."
He seems to expect even Horus will die to bring about the end of the Great Crusade. I don't think Horus agrees, so that's a bit weird. Maybe some elements of a failsafe there where you get them to accept their deaths, and then the primarchs are a them-but-more, so the best thing that can happen to them is a noble death too. You really wouldn't want them getting mad at you for endangering their dads.
"Later, on the islet, by the light of the lanterns, they branded Loken’s helm above the right eye with the crescent mark of the new moon. This was his badge of office. Aximand’s helm bore the brand of the half moon, Torgaddon’s the gibbous, and Abaddon’s the full. The four stage cycle of a moon was shared between their wargear. So the Mournival was denoted."
They're doing this ritual with the moon of the other Terra, or one of the moons because it has several right? But just like not all planets have moons not all planets have moon phases. You have to have the size and distances line up so they're all the same. The moon is the size and distance to be the same as Earth's shadow and the sun from Earth.
Maybe having a moon with phases means that probably their Terra really is our Earth? Or maybe the fact their new moon is a crescent isn't because that looks better but because their version of the moon never gets down to less than a crescent because the sizes don't overlap exactly and their moon never ends up fully covered by their Terra's shadow.
Or maybe they built so much on Luna that it's bigger than the moon used to be.
Final thought for the day
"There would be a time when Abaddon no longer waged bloody war across the territories of humanity.
Loken sighed. That would be a sad day indeed. Men would cry out for Abaddon’s return, but he would never come."
I want a bunch of Black Crusade guys to get this mangled into the idea that the Imperium wants Abaddon back and will greet them as liberators.
Horus Rising 4.1
"She had asked what the planet was called, and the crew of the shuttle had answered her ‘Terra’, which was hardly useful. Mersadie Olitan had spent the first twenty-eight years of her twenty-nine-year life on Terra, and this wasn’t it."
I'm pretty sure humans can live hundreds of years in this. Most don't but rich people at least can. Maybe they wanted young people because the idea is for them to stick with the legions for a long while. But picking people who've never even been to other planets before? Did they pick inexperienced people on purpose?
Since she's got nothing else to compare it to she can't tell us if this planet is freakishly alike to her Terra or just a relatively Terran planet. There's grass and trees with bark and nice air.
She's sent with an iterator who spends the whole trip down vomiting from motion sickness. They really do only care about brains for those guys.
"‘Sixty-Three Nineteen?’ she asked.
‘It being the ninteenth world the 63rd Expedition has brought to compliance,’ Memed said, ‘though, of course, full compliance is not yet established here. The charter is yet to be ratified. Lord Governor Elect Rakris is having trouble forming a consenting coalition parliament, but Sixty-Three Nineteen will do. The locals call this world Terra, and we can’t be having two of those, can we? As far as I see it, that was the root of the problem in the first place…’"
But are there dozens of "Terras" out there, and what's why they've got a standard number based naming system, or is it really super weird? It sounds like running across a guy claiming to be Emperor of Mankind on Terra hasn't happened to them before.
"Already, the basis of her account, with visual keys, was formulating in her enhanced mind. A personal angle, that’s what she’d take. She’d use the novelty and unfamiliarity of her first planetfall as a theme around which her remembrance would hang."
She's upbeat but it's not like there's any other angle she could take is there.
"The four army troopers delegated to her protection certainly weren’t about to do it. Perspiring in their heavy velvet overcoats and shakos, their rifles slung over their shoulders, they closed up around her."
Loken and company have perfect flawless power armor perfectly connecting to their flawless bodies, but even back then equipment already sucked for regular guys.
Another remembrancer took triumphant pictures of an astarte who was thought dead but survived and that's all it's taken to make the astartes think they're cool actually.
"Last time they’d met, he’d been so brutal that she’d considered resigning and taking the first conveyance home." I don't know if she's supposed to be sensitive or he's supposed to be psyker charismaing or if we're supposed to also feel that Loken saying he doesn't like people using his dad-general's name without the military title was a brutal rebuke.
"‘Captain. Before we start, I’d like to apologise for any offence I may have caused the last time we–’
‘If I’d taken offence, mistress, would I have summoned you here?’
‘I suppose not.’
‘You suppose right. You raised my hackles with your questions last time, but I admit I was too hard on you.’
‘I spoke with unnecessary temerity–’
‘It was that temerity that caused me to think of you,’ Loken replied. ‘I can’t explain further. I won’t, but you should know that it was your very speaking out of turn that brought me here. "
This is shocking when I read a 40k Blood Angel thing where they habitually murder their ship humans for speaking in their presence. The past-future was a different time…
"Beyond the high hedge, an ornamental water garden lay in shadowy ruin. The height of the hedge and the neighbouring trees, just now becoming spiky black shapes against the rose sky, screened out what was left of the direct sunlight. The gloom upon the gardens was almost misty.
The garden had once been composed of rectangular ouslite slabs laid like giant flagstones, surrounding a series of square, shallow basins where lilies and bright water flowers had flourished in pebbly sinks fed by some spring or water source. Frail ghost ferns and weeping trees had edged the pools.
During the assault of the High City, shells or airborne munitions had bracketed the area, felling many of the plants and shattering a great number of the blocks. Many of the ouslite slabs had been dislodged, and several of the pools greatly increased in breadth and depth by the addition of deep, gouging craters.
But the hidden spring had continued to feed the place, filling the shell holes, and pouring overflow between dislodged stones.
The whole garden was a shimmering, flat pool in the gloom, out of which tangled branches, broken root balls and asymmetric shards of rock stuck up in miniature archipelagos.
Some of the intact blocks, slabs two metres long and half a metre thick, had been rearranged, and not randomly by the blasts. They had been levered out to form a walkway into the pool area, a stone jetty sunk almost flush with the water’s surface."
Pretty! I want to try to draw this.
Final thought for the day
"He was a giant, two and a half metres tall." even in the grimdark British future Imperial units are gone because it'd be unrealistic to have a future quite that terrible.
Horus Rising 3.4
"It was said that the iterators were selected via a process even more rigorous and scrupulous than the induction mechanisms of the Astartes. ‘One man in a thousand might become a Legion warrior,’ so the sentiment went, ‘but only one in a hundred thousand is fit to be an iterator.’"
This is probably more Warhammer numbers not real numbers because once you have untold numbers of planets with billions of people even one in a hundred thousand is common.
"A person could be taught what to think, and how to express that line of thought, but he couldn’t be taught how to think. "
Wow the dark age of lost technology I guess alludes to a lot more than just physical tech.
Loken loves these guys. "It was like watching the sun come out across a field of wheat." I don't know if this is an expression of his loyal faith in the whole endeavor or if it's that astartes love rousing authority from anyone. Horus also loves at least the guys on his ship.
"Beyond their duties as iterators, senior counsellors like Sindermann were expected to conduct programmes of education for the Astartes. This had been ordered by the Warmaster himself. The men of the Legion spent long periods in transit between wars, and the Warmaster insisted they use the time to develop their minds and expand their knowledge. ‘Even the mightiest warriors should be schooled in areas beyond warfare,’ he had ordained. ‘There will come a time when war is over, and fighting done, and my warriors should prepare themselves for a life of peace. They must know of other things besides martial matters, or else find themselves obsolete.’"
How much better would the remembrancers have come off if they'd been told they were expected to do the same?
There's a lot of philosophical talk that doesn't impress me. But that might be the point.
"‘Did you hear anything you liked?’ he asked, sitting down beside Loken and smoothing the skirts of his robes.
‘You sound like a showman,’ Loken said, ‘or a carnival peddler, advertising his wares.’
Sindermann crooked one black, black eyebrow. ‘Sometimes, Garviel, that’s precisely how I feel.’
Loken frowned. ‘That you don’t believe what you’re selling?’
‘Do you?’
‘What am I selling?’
‘Faith, through murder. Truth, through combat.’"
Even if you do believe in the Imperium, a lot of it requires faith, and faith isn't evidence, so if you're trying to give evidence you're right, you'd slip into rhetoric you know isn't really proof. And they aren't meant to be fair anyway. They're also supposed to sneak into crowds to manipulate the reactions.
Loken worries about right and wrong and if some golden Emperor who killed a bunch of people for not bending the knee might've been okay to leave alone. I'm going to assume that they did eventually learn more about these planets and this Imperium was getting run exactly like their Imperium.
"‘As a warrior, I am a man of conscience, and that conscience is directed by my faith in the Emperor. My faith in our cause, as you were just describing to the school, but as a weapon, I am without conscience. When activated for war, I set aside my personal considerations, and simply act. The value of my action has already been weighed by the greater conscience of our commander. I kill until I am told to stop, and in that period, I do not question the killing. To do so would be nonsense, and inappropriate. The commander has already made a determination for war, and all he expects of me is to prosecute it to the best of my abilities. A weapon doesn’t question who it kills, or why. That isn’t the point of weapons.’"
Do you suppose this is literally true for them? That during combat their brain is designed to shut down these sorts of questions even more than usual, but they think this is them virtuously choosing to set stuff aside and not a switch Emps put in their brain.
And Horus may know how to manage astartes but what happens if a primarch doesn't know they're supposed to give stop orders...
"You are a weapon, Garviel, an example of the finest instrument of destruction mankind has ever wrought. There must be no place inside you for doubt or question. You’re right. Weapons should not think, they should only allow themselves to be employed, for the decision to use them is not theirs to make. That decision must be made – with great and terrible care, and ethical consideration beyond our capacity to judge – by the primarchs and the commanders. "
"As the woman said, could we not just leave them to their own destinies, unmolested?’
‘You are walking along the shores of a lake,’ Sindermann said. ‘A boy is drowning. Do you let him drown because he was foolish enough to fall into the water before he had learned to swim? Or do you fish him out, and teach him how to swim?’
Loken shrugged. ‘The latter.’
‘What if he fights you off as you attempt to save him, because he is afraid of you? Because he doesn’t want to learn how to swim?’
‘I save him anyway.’"
we had to destroy the village to save it
BUT you can see how this would play really well with humanistic primarchs. The people of the society don't deserve to be trapped in ignorance because some warlord with a gun who controls the planet says so. It's just, it's Warhammer and the people only matter because humans are also a resource.
"Sindermann gestured to the stacks of books that rose, like towers, into the misty altitudes of the archive. High above, hovering servitors searched and retrieved ancient texts sealed in plastek carriers, swarming across the cliff-faces of the library like honey bees."
Also they've still got tons of servitors over here too. Again they seem to be only serving the human side of the expedition.
Final thought for the day
"The Warmaster has his eye on you. So does Dorn.’
‘Primarch Dorn? Are you sure?’"
As long as we're The Warmastering Horus it's okay for people to be on a first name basis with the rest of them.
Horus Rising 3.3
"Aid ships were flocking down from the fleet to the surface, and hosts of the Imperial Army had been deployed to effect police actions. "
Nice to hear a little bit of the practical stuff happening.
"The Warmaster had agreed to a state funeral for the ‘Emperor’. He declared it only right and proper, and sympathetic to the desires of a people they wished to bring to compliance rather than crush wholesale. "
I have no idea what to make of this. This can be a good idea, if you and your opponents have shared cultural values. But given they killed the guy because he a "false" Emperor and there can be only one master of mankind, and all the deaths of the people here that happened are because he killed the envoys and then wouldn't surrender, and also really the entire concept of big funerals honoring the ruler is pretty religious even when they're not presenting themselves as divine god-kings. This really seems like it's sending some mixed messages.
But I don't know if it's supposed to be showing the noble side of the Great Crusade.
Although Horus wants this, all his sons are still pissed but luckily Dorn just arrived so his guys do the funeral honors.
"Gleaming in their yellow plate, the Imperial Fists silently lined the route of the ‘Emperor’s’ cortege as it wound its way through the battered avenues of the High City to the necropolis."
Personally I would not do this. Surely there's some middle ground between this and desecrating the corpse in such a way everyone gets madder at you.
"Vipus was dressed in black breeches, boots and a loose vest, and his truncated arm was very evident. The missing hand had been bagged in sterile jelly, and nanotic serums injected to reform the wrist so it would accept an augmetic implant in a week or so." Cool!
"Tarik Torgaddon entered the blade-school chamber, dressed in fatigues and a long coat of silver mail. His features were saturnine, his hair black. " He arrives!
Loken was doing swordfighting training with dummies and automated stuff in the playpen/fight cage. No mention of servitors? Is that not such a thing back then, or is it retconned in later?
They talk while swinging sharp things at each other, because they're UBERMEN, MEN^2, MEN TO THE POINT IT GETS SILLY.
Torgaddon keeps saying stuff and sometimes Loken goes don't believe you and Torgaddon says haha I was lying and sometimes then Torgaddon goes wait you believed me when I said I was lying? But I was lying about that!
"‘Ekaddon’s an arse,’ Torgaddon said, ‘and he feels cheated you got there first.’
‘I only–’ Loken began.
Torgaddon raised a finger for silence. ‘You got there first,’ he said quietly, not joking any more, ‘and you saw the truth of it. Ekaddon can go hang, he’s just smarting."
This is kind of a thing too, isn't it? That a big part of promotions is about being first or lucky really. Loken recognizing the invisibility trick and potentially saving Horus himself from a sneak attack is impressive! Being the first one up the tower though, that's dumb. That makes your guys competing and taking dumb risks and even maybe sabotaging each other for glory.
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/lkip01/excerptrynns_world_a_scout_of_the_crimson_fists/ " ‘If he had slain the ork,’ Cortez growled over at Morrelis, ‘we would be calling him a hero.’ He turned to Kantor. ‘You would be promoting Kennon to Third Company, not Mishina.’
‘This decision can hardly rest on an if,’ barked Caldimus Ortiz, ‘particularly given that he did not slay the ork, brother.’"
Final thought for the day
It's like night and day how well the astartes get along waving sharp objects at each other and teasing, while the problems with the remembrancers clearly go way, way beyond them popping up at an awkward time. They work great with each other and nobody else.
Horus Rising 3.2
"She was tall, lean-limbed and blonde, her face pale and slender. She wore chunky army boots and fatigue breeches, with a black combat jacket open to show a white vest, like a cadet officer, but the very masculinity of her chosen garb made her feminine beauty all the more apparent."
We're gonna be a little weird about women all book aren't we.
The poet guy asks if she likes men, since she dresses like one? She asks if that means he likes men. He acts like this is so unreasonable but then as soon as he hears someone talked to one of them who isn't stinky, he wants to meet the guy too.
" He stared up at the heroic figures painted on the roof of the mezzanine. He had no idea what they were supposed to represent. Some great act of triumph that clearly had involved a great deal of standing on the bodies of the slain with arms thrust into the sky whilst shouting."
They really have no idea.
Maybe this is all Malcador? Maybe Emps pathologically hates anyone knowing anything, and as soon as he got distracted Malcador went well at least I can get some halfway decent art out of this clusterfuck and got Emps to stamp it without looking.
They're also kept out of the whole funeral for the emperor thing so they have no clue how things are run or anything.
"‘Offended? Who?’ Keeler asked.
‘Some haughty Space Marine bastard called Loken. Bastard!’"
There were some red flags but a military guy wanting you to use the title the highest ranked dude has when talking about him can't be that big of a shock.
"Torgaddon had sent the equerry to take me to see Loken. “Loken’s got a good story,” he said.’
‘Was it a good story?’ Keeler asked.
Mersadie nodded. ‘Best I’ve heard, but I said something he didn’t like, and he turned on me. Made me feel this small.’ She gestured with her hand, and then took another swig."
Oh. She's mad because she took it really hard. Maybe astartes do have a degree of psyker charm and this situation is why they shouldn't interact with standard issue humans.
Final thought for the day:
If astartes do have psyker charisma it's probably inevitable if you leave the Imperium to be just humans and astartes things get really fucking weird fast. In that case, a strong point toward Emps planning to at very best put them into storage when he was done.
Horus Rising 3.1
Rememberancer stuff…
"Three months after the battle for the High City, the first of the remembrancers had joined the expedition fleet"
It's been two hundred ish years and in all that time all records were random people who ended up on a ship with the astartes and felt like arting about it.
"Returning to Terra after the victory of Ullanor, the Emperor had decided it was time a more formal and authoritative celebration of mankind’s reunification be undertaken. The fledgling Council of Terra evidently agreed wholeheartedly, for the bill inaugurating the foundation and sponsorship of the remembrancer order had been countersigned by no less a person than Malcador the Sigillite, First Lord of the Council. Recruited from all levels of Terran society – and from the societies of other key Imperial worlds – simply on the merit of their creative gifts, the remembrancers were quickly accredited and assigned, and despatched to join all the key expedition fleets active in the expanding Imperium."
Malcador's involvement tells us nothing because if Emps wants it he gets it. So why does Emps want this? Was it meant to be a distraction? Throw out some petty stuff to keep them distracted? Or is it a reassurance not to the troops but Horus and the other primarchs, because Emps can't be planning any damnatio memoriae if he's starting a whole new project revolving around recording and exalting their deeds?
Very much an empire, picking almost all from Terra and then only certain other worlds.
"there were four thousand two hundred and eighty-seven primary expedition fleets engaged upon the business of the crusade, as well as sixty thousand odd secondary deployment groups involved in compliance or occupation endeavours, with a further three hundred and seventy-two primary expeditions in regroup and refit, or resupplying as they awaited new tasking orders. Almost four point three million remembrancers were sent abroad in the first months following the ratification of the bill."
NUMBERS.
Warhammer numbers though so I think they probably are telling us emotional amounts. There are many main war peoples, and many many support war peoples, and then there's many many many many remembrancers.
"‘Arm the bastards,’ Primarch Russ had been reported as saying, ‘and they might win a few bloody worlds for us in between verses.’
Russ’s sour attitude reflected well the demeanor of the martial class."
Martial class or martial caste tho?
And isn't it really insulting to any of the ones that do their own poetry like the Space Wolves that their stuff isn't good enough. The least they could do is also be fighting usefully.
Another change is since Emps isn't leading the War Council a brand new council was invented of civilians/humans who's in charge. At first it seems wild that Emps is changing this much at once while he's not there. But actually it's just about putting Malcador in charge, isn't it. It's probably not supposed to be a big deal. It's just that there's two proxies splitting the job of being Emperor.
Could some of what goes wrong be on Malcador, actually? He probably doesn't want to be on the war council with the primarchs and he wants to do it this way instead. Him lording over regular humans like Emps lords over the primarchs. And he might also want the primarchs to get mad and cause problems because then he can tell Emps they're flawed.
"Only later, when the eaxector tributi administrators began to visit expedition fleets, did the discontent find a better, truer target to exercise itself upon."
All of this put together I actually think casts doubt on the ultimate plan being to murder the primarchs. Why not let them keep control until you kill them all instead of causing conflict?
"None of them had known what to expect. Most had never been off-world before. They were virgin and innocent, over-eager and gauche."
Wait. Maybe everyone involved is just so dumb we have no idea what the real plan ever was.
Now one of them is whining that when trying the food of a different solar system out of contact for five thousand years, the wholly recognizable wine isn't anything great.
Next he complains the astartes are stinky. They shouldn't have sent a poet. They should've sent a technical writer because this unhelpful loser doesn't even describe the smell. Do they just smell like 100 men at once? Do they smell weird? It probably doesn't have to do with them spending weeks/months in armor, because the fight was very short and is over now, but since they can do that maybe the ones on the planet just aren't taking baths. Maybe you only do that back up on the ship.
". I expected them to smell rather better. Fragrant, like young gods.’" EMPS. EMPS. HOW ARE YOU SO BAD AT THIS?
"One of the waiting servitors stalked up to her on thin, piston legs. She held out her picter. ‘This mechanism is jammed. Take it for repair. And fetch me my spare units.’
‘Yes, mistress,’ the servitor croaked, taking the device. It plodded away. Keeler poured herself a glass of wine from the decanter and went to lean at the rail. Below, on the sub-deck, most of the expedition’s other remembrancers were assembling for luncheon. Three hundred and fifty men and women gathered around formally laid tables, servitors moving amongst them, offering drinks. "
Lot of servitors!
Actually, there's been no mention of human servants yet. Did pre-Heresy Imperium have even more servitors?
"‘And is it going to be one of the damned iterators hosting again?’ he queried.
‘Yes. Sindermann yet again. The topic is promulgation of the living truth.’"
They just complain about everything. I guess that's part of it being Worst of Britian In Space? They don't even need to leave home because they can be judgy xenophobes about even themselves?
Final thought for the day:
Several entire planets of people and they couldn't filter out people who talk about gods from the empire-sanctioned propagandists? EMPS DO YOUR JOB. DO YOUR JOB!
Horus Rising 2.2
"Above the breastplate, the face was bare, grimacing, perfect in every dimension and detail, suffused in radiance. So beautiful. So very beautiful."
But was it equine? I need to know. Loken thinks Horus is perfect but he also described his brother as beautiful so he wouldn't mention it either way. Horus looks like an astarte but perfect, or he looks like a scaled up regular human but perfect. Probably the second one but who can say. It's a shame they shot not!Malcador so he's not here to say if he thinks Horus looks freaky or not.
"No longer impelled, Ekaddon crashed back down against the blown-out sill of the window frame. His grip was secure. He clawed his way back inside and got to his feet.
‘My lord!’ he exclaimed, and dropped to one knee, his head bowed."
They like kneeling before the lord their god so much they stand up just so they can go back down. Loken is sliding to his death right now. And it's gonna have to be Horus who saves him because everybody else is too excited about a chance to kneel worshipfully in the middle of a battle.
"‘So will I deal with all tyrants and deceivers,’ rumbled a deep voice."
I know, I know, I know! This is all dramatic irony. But I wish instead it got into this instead of everybody going crazy. You don't need everybody going crazy because they're already going crazy. Look at this shit! Everybody who doesn't surrender is a tyrant?!?!?!?!
"Loken looked up at the god standing over him. ‘Lupercal…’ he murmured.
The god smiled. ‘Not so formal, please, captain,’ whispered Horus."
Lupercal is their pet name, that is the super very formal name compared to his regular name? Are space marine nicknames designed around increasing the distance because that's what affection is to them?
Mersadie asks about just leaving them alone as an option. If even someone from Terra tapped for the project of recording the war doesn't know the answer to that already, do any of the humans have any idea what's going on with the Crusade?
"‘I think he is Warmaster,’ Loken said. His tone was stone hard. ‘I think he is the master of the Luna Wolves and the chosen proxy of the Emperor, praise be his name, in all our undertakings. He is the first and foremost of all primarchs. And I think I take offence when a mortal voices his name without respect or title.’"
Big big disconnect between the culture of Terra the war is fought in the name of, and the guys fighting it for them.
But Loken doesn't say Horus either. Horus is God and Lord and Lupercal. Is this the space marine version of cute-aggression maybe? Overloading on affection and closeness makes them express distance. Is saying Lupercal Lord God like squeezing a baby's face?
Or do they say it so Horus can tell them to stop saying it? Is the point to give him the choice every single time to decide on closeness, no matter how many times he's said so before? Is marine social structure affection based about inferiors giving deference and superiors giving closeness? They love him, they give him titles, he loves them, he tells them not to be formal. Is a human using his name is a human saying not that they don't respect Horus but that they don't love Horus?
Final thought for the day:
Do primarchs often stay away from battle not because they're valuable, but because the bonus they provide personally often isn't worth the drop in everyone else's fighting ability because they're so distracted and keep going on their knees in the middle of stuff? This seems like a big flaw but so does arming your high tech supersoldiers with spears and that's how Loken killed orks all campaign.
Horus Rising 2.1
"Loken set aside the segment of armour he had been polishing and rose to his feet. He was almost a metre taller than her, and naked but for a loin cloth. She sighed inwardly at the splendour of his physique. The knotted muscles, the old ridge-scars. He was handsome too, this one, fair hair almost silver, cut short, his pale skin slightly freckled, his eyes grey like rain. What a waste, she thought.
Though there was no disguising his inhumanity, especially in this bared form. Apart from the sheer mass of him, there was the overgrown gigantism of the face, that particular characteristic of the Astartes, almost equine, plus the hard, taut shell of his rib-less torso, like stretched canvas. "
Equine?
Is this dude with the plastic surgery horse face actually giving himself an astarte face?
Loken is weird about meeting a women, even though there should be lots of women in the Imperium serving in various non-astarte roles. Maybe he doesn't look at people much and also isn't very good at telling the two sexes apart. Maybe they use torso proportions, since astartes are barrel chesters, so anybody who due to body type or clothing doesn't have a tucked waist and then wide hips looks like a man/baby astarte to them.
"Her skin was like burnished coal. He wondered if it were some kind of dye.
He wondered too about her skull. Her head was bald, but not shaved. It seemed polished and smooth as if it had never known hair. The cranium was enhanced somehow, extending back in a streamlined sweep that formed a broad ovoid behind her nape. It was like she had been crowned, as if her simple humanity had been made more regal."
I can already sense something weird about the human vs astarte stuff. Last chapter the other side's human soldiers were compared to children, space marines get made of human children, space marines are supposed to shepherd humanity not be the elite of humanity, space marines don't get to be remembrancers, humans wear the crown of the empire. The chain of command in this military warfare everything is about chain of commands is already getting weird and we're at the start of the second chapter!
"He didn’t like it when non-Astartes humans called the Warmaster by his true name."
And we're already getting weirder about it.
"Since the taking of the High City, he’d been required – forced would not be too strong a word – to retell his first-hand account of the events in the palace tower on dozens of occasions. He presumed it was because of Sejanus’s death. The Luna Wolves needed catharsis. They needed to hear how Sejanus had been so singularly avenged."
Is the way space marines handle constantly losing people to endless war by putting all their emotional investment in a couple guys and as long as those guys survive they can cope?
Maybe this really is catharsis where all the buildup of all the other deaths is coming out at once. Maybe different things happen depending on how long it's been between a big death.
"A cluster of glow-globes lit the room, and an Imperial eagle had been stencilled on one wall plate, beneath which copies of Loken’s various oaths of moment had been pinned."
Are these those prayer seals? I don't know much about them.
Also do did they lose lightbulb tech?
The Invisibles aren't automated guns after all :( They actually have invisibility cloaks, on guys.
"Tall, swathed in mantles of red silk, the Invisibles reminded Loken of the mighty Custodian Guard that warded the Imperial Palace on Terra"
So this Emps does have artificially giant men too. He just doesn't have astartes, and also he went with a silver color scheme.
I think Tzeentch is connected to silver though. So I guess this could all just be an elaborate joke.
"the friable plaster of the ancient frescoes crackled and fell out."
But this is so Emps. He has sufficiently advanced invisibility cloaks but he still likes frescoes.
Plus the palace is this towering edifice placed at the highest point and then going up and up from there as the tippy top of the High City. Terrible idea, so Emps. Emps feels about bunkers like those old timey mathematicians finally having to accept fractions were real.
The throne isn't silver, either because Emps does always like gold best and this one just didn't have the resources to gold everybody, or because silver throne wasn't on the nose enough. There's not!Malcador there. I wonder how that works. Not!Malcador thinks the astartes are gross looking, not real humans, and knows about daemons enough to use that as an insult.
"The elderly man sagged, deflated. ‘You could have left us alone.’
‘What?’ Loken asked.
‘If our philosophies are so much at odds, you could have passed us by and left us to our lives, unviolated. Yet you did not. Why? Why did you insist on bringing us to ruin? Are we such a threat to you?’"
Because you guys shot first! Also you were on the exact same imposter hype murder train as these are. No Emps would let another Emps live.
Idk I guess Malcador/not!Malcador is flexible enough to just say whatever it takes. The fact they can't just leave people alone is a good point to press on even if it's total hypocrisy, especially because he guessed right.
"Loken was surprised to find he didn’t know quite how to answer. " Poor Loken! This is what happens if you make your soldiers just believe anything anybody tells them with no ability to argue. And the trauma about all the people he's murdered for less good reasons before this surely isn't helping.
"‘We are dismantling an ancient empire, Captain Ekaddon,’ Loken said firmly. ‘Might we not display some measure of gracious respect in the execution of that act? Or are we just barbarians?’
‘He murdered Sejanus!’ spat one of Ekaddon’s men.
‘He did,’ Loken agreed. ‘So should we just murder him in response? Didn’t the Emperor, praise be his name, teach us always to be magnanimous in victory?’"
Loken please this is not a healthy way to try to alleviate your guilt. You need to tell a trusted human, who look ironically like children to you when they're the adults in comparison to you, and ask them for help. Please.
Final thought for the day:
"The god was a true giant, as large again to any Astartes warrior as an Astartes was to a normal man."
Astartes think normal men are children so all of Horus' astartes are children and all of the normal men are tiny babies. The experience of the great crusade to the primarchs has been babies killing babies for hundreds of years straight.
Horus Rising 1.2
"the ‘Emperor’s’ fleet elements rose up out of the oceans, out of the high cloud, out of the gravity wells of nearby moons"
So this third planet from the yellow sun has more than one moon. But our moon is really big and if it broke Earth could have several.
"Every Astartes helmet was filled with vox-chatter: snapping voices, chopping back and forth, their tonal edges roughened by the transmission quality." They can make superhumans but they can't make non-scratchy transmissions…. "their armour a polished magenta trimmed in silver, as Loken later discovered when he viewed them with his helmet off" or color vision in helmets.
"Ullanor had been glorious; a hard, unstinting slog to dislodge and overthrow a bestial empire. The greenskin had been a pernicious and resilient foe, but they had broken his back and kicked over the embers of his revel fires" I wonder if Emps repurposed a design that was supposed to be anti-alien for general war.
"The enemy possessed ordnance and firearms every bit the technological match of the Legion forces, and the skill and training to use them." "Except that for all its martial technologies, the enemy lacked one essential quality, and that quality was locked within each and every case of Mark IV power armour: the genetically enhanced flesh and blood of the Imperial Astartes. "
I think they really are fighting Emps! Who even has the same power armor designs! He just doesn't have the genetics stuff, and it turns out the genetics stuff is a lie.
"They were big men, tall, thick through the chest and shoulders, and at the peak of fitness. Not one of them, not even the tallest, came up to the chin of one of the Luna Wolves. It was like fighting children."
He even has the Emps size kink where you need big burly men with eight packs to use technologically peak weapons.
"At the front of them, the dark figures of First Company’s foremost Terminator squad, the Justaerin. They wore polished black armour, dark as night, as if they belonged to some other, black Legion."
This is silly even by silly standards.
"‘Torn into shreds before my very eyes. Oh, I feel the hand of the ship on me, Garvi.’
The hand of the ship. An old saying. The commander’s flagship was called the Vengeful Spirit, and in times of duress or loss, the Wolves liked to draw upon all that implied as a charm, a totem of retribution."
God damn so Emps was doing a hell of a shit job on the no-religion thing from day -1?
"‘It’s just an automatic sentry gun,’ Loken replied." about the Invisibles who are super assassins this Emps uses. Love post apocalyptic stuff like this!
But that means this Emperor also went straight for spraying woo woo supersitition over his science. It's a good tactical idea. Maybe it's part of Emps not being able to let go of the emperor thing. The warlord thing. The forever us against them stategic misinformation art of war the planet is infinite and there are always going to be more lands to conquer mindset.
If Emps is supposed to be the forever-conquering human emperor maybe he went crazy back when he realized humans could go extinct and he'd no longer be able to conquer them?
Final thought for the day
"‘Lupercal! Lupercal!’ the Wolves yelled back as they streamed in, choosing to answer with the old cry, the Legion’s pet-name for their beloved commander."
Lupercal's not a title or a fake surname but a cutesy nickname because they love him so much? They're howling terms of endearment as they kill in his name.
Horus Rising 1.1
This book is going to be 60% about working in references to the future by weight, isn't it?
I did not know "‘I was there, the day Horus slew the Emperor.’" had this whole backstory about another emperor. And I guess being an astarte burns out a LOT of your independent reasoning, because this whole thing is actually incredibly weird and not ironic like they seem to think. But I don't know if it's just about piling the references thick for reader dramatic irony or if the fact the parallels are so unnecessarily excessive is meant to mean maybe this guy actually is a separated part of the Emperor.
"It had been, as far as the warp-dilated horologs could attest, the two hundred and third year of the Great Crusade."
I really love the warp messing with time! Time doesn't work consistently in our universe either, because our universe doesn't care about humans and how we want to keep track of time. And neither does Warhammer universe as much as they and Emps want it to.
But speaking of Emps and Emperors….
"He was, he explained, the Emperor of Mankind. He had stoically shepherded his people through the miserable epoch of warp storms, through the Age of Strife, staunchly maintaining the rule and law of man. This had been expected of him, he declared. He had kept the flame of human culture alight through the aching isolation of Old Night. He had sustained this precious, vital fragment, and kept it intact,"
What makes him an Emperor, anyway? Shouldn't he be King? An Emperor is somebody who conquers other groups. You can't be an Emperor of your own group, if you ever get to the point where you actually have all the groups integrated and treated equally instead of an ingroup core living on the outgroup's labor, you're not an empire anymore I hadn't thought about it because Emps loves conquering people, but this guy says the same thing when he says he's just been a shepherd of these guys this whole time, and he welcomes them as his own people lost and returned. And he expects everybody he meets to bow down immediately, which is also more of a king thing, an Emperor gets to be Emperor by conquering people who don't agree with you.
Even though a bunch of space marines who each = 100!!! men went down to talk, single-solar-system Emps manages to kill them.
Wait, what if this is actually Earth and the other planet main Emps is on isn't?
Also the space marines who each = 100!!! men don't seem too surprised it was possible. They're just sad about it. I wonder if this isn't the first time they've run into somebody like this. And even though they're really sad, and also have fought on hundreds of worlds already, "The commander detested resorting to war, and always sought alternative paths away from violence, where such were workable." Do they do this all the time? (And does it mean anything that the narration is trying to keep up a normal military sound where it's commander and not Primarch let alone Father? Or how "The commander’s grief was absolute. He had loved Sejanus like a son." This Emperor kills somebody Horus loves like a son, and then eventually Emps will kill Horus who Emps loves like a son.)
Maybe it's a cheaper to lose a couple guys every time so they can try alternative paths away from violence compared to giving everybody therapy about being a war machine who exists for eternal violence. Or maybe it's not because I'm pretty sure space marines are stupid expensive but they really don't have therapists anymore so it doesn't matter how much it costs when you can't get your hands on the other thing anymore.
"Armour was machined into place around the anointed bodies of the chosen." They also don't know how to fasten stuff any other way anymore I guess.
"Abaddon broke obscurement and made a final, personal plea to the ‘Emperor’, beseeching him to see sense. The warships began to fire on Abaddon’s speartip.
‘My commander,’ Abaddon relayed to the heart of the waiting fleet, ‘there is no dealing here. This fool imposter will not listen.’
And the commander replied, ‘Illuminate him, my son, but spare all you can. That order not withstanding, avenge the blood of my noble Sejanus. Decimate this “Emperor’s” elite murderers, and bring the imposter to me.’
‘And so,’ Loken would sigh, ‘we made war upon our brethren, so lost in ignorance.’"
I think they don't have therapists anymore. Meme canon keep winning!
Final thought for the day
"A beautiful man, Loken would say, building his tale, a beautiful man adored by all. ‘No finer figure in Mark IV plate than Hastur Sejanus." space marines are gay but only want to fuck men when they're in armor. The space marines don't fuck plan was that they would get horny seeing each other in armor but unhorny if they removed the armor to fuck about it. Emps isn't very good at out of the box thinking so he thought this was foolproof.
~ DRAMATIS PERSONAE ~ and other dramatic pre-story stuff
"Horus, First Primarch and Warmaster, Commander-in-Chief of the Luna Wolves
Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists
Sanguinius, Primarch of the Blood Angels"
We're not saying WHY he's first, and the fact we don't say anybody else's number implies it's like First among equals, or First and everyone else is second because I don't think anybody even pretends to do equals here in Warhammer land.
And he's commander-in-chief of his legion, while other people are primarchs of their legions.
Shades of Guilliman's later attempt to split up the legions to prevent primarchs from having enough control to pull this off? Are they pretending none of the good loyal primarchs were ever functioning like commander in chiefs and are so loyal that even before the heresy, they instinctively just never took that much power?
"‘Myths grow like crystals, according to their
own recurrent pattern; but there must be a
suitable core to start their growth.’
– attributed to the remembrancer Koestler (fl. M2)"
Could one of the many, many things going wrong in the Imperium is that they were able to brute-force a lot of myths that didn't actually have a good core? Trying to grow the myths faster and faster to shore up the outside faster than the inside can crumble away?
At this rate I'm going to come out of my contact with more canon by having thrice as much headcanon, and so balance will remain.