I STILL HATE YOU LILITH BUT I ALMOST CHOKED AT THIS
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I STILL HATE YOU LILITH BUT I ALMOST CHOKED AT THIS
The Women Of Zero Escape - Phi
âNot even Jupiter can find a lost opportunity. Jupiter is a Roman God. Actually, heâs kind of the Roman god. Heâs in charge of all the others. Not even Jupiter, the ruler of the gods, can take back whatâs been done. You did something bad. Youâre not going to get a chance to take it back.â
So this is a message to myself, and everyone of you guys whose life is currently a potato⌠With that being said, this game gave me the feels, man.
rkgk
hello yes case 3 of dgs2 was being SUPER RUDE
đđ¸
More post dgs2 drawingsâŚ. An investigations game with Asougi, Sherlock n Iris would beâŚ. ideal, thoughâŚâŚÂ
Also that last comic is @loregoddessâs faultÂ
asougi!! for a friend
Mistake
Best Friend.Â
ok like granted i havent interacted with the ace attorney fandom in about three years but has there been any lengthy meta about how phoenix obviously suffers from some sort of clinical depression?
like everyone talks about how phoenix is depressed in AJ, and i think that doesnt really need to be explained at all, but i remember being struck playing JFA with how emotional that game was. like my friends at the time would talk about TnT as if that was the saddest game in the series but i really felt like JFA was the saddest, that phoenixâs dialogue had become so depressed, and i was only two games into the series
and anyway im replaying the series now to prep for SoJ and in thinking about how depressed phoenix becomes later in the series⌠its striking me that heâs fairly depressed even in this first game? a lot of his snarky comments are (inner commentary) which means he doesnt actually bother to say a lot of the things heâs thinking, even when chatting more could put people in more ease. heâs most emotive in the courtroom scenes, where heâs essentially putting on a show for his clients/the witness/the judge, and even though the courtroom is super tense he still isnt focusing 100% (in fact he picks up on clues a lot faster during investigation stages, probably when heâs not stressed out by the courtroom setting)
and even going further back, theres still more hints at this. hes 9 when he decides he wants to be a lawyer, but where is he when we see him next? heâs an art student. and if i remember correctly not a particularly good one? the AA wikia says he was studying law as well as art but thats just two things that heâs not particularly good with that heâs halfheartedly trying to get a degree in, almost as if he kind of wants to give up on his goals, and heâs only 21. also he acts all cutesy and lovelove with dahlia, but, like, heâs basically mimicking larryâs behavior. hes probably literally just imitating larry because he isnt sure how to gauge appropriate relationship behavior otherwise
i could go on but this already got kind of long, and iâm admittedly not the best at diagnosing characters, so maybe im off base here, but like⌠if you wan to tal about phoenix being depressed post-trilogy, maybe we should also talk about about all the signs of depression he has in the trilogy?
@leonawriter (I hope directing your attention to this post is okay?)
Itâs taken a while but I did mean to get on this, so here I am-
As I mentioned in the reply I gave first, I have a lot of thoughts on this, and Iâve spoken about it before, but Iâll try and compile everything a bit.
First of all, Iâve spoken in anime-related posts about how how the class trial defined him. At one point I also mentioned how he, Miles, and Larry were all outsiders in their class - Miles is the obvious one, being above his learning age, while Larry is the joker I donât think anyone really took seriously, who everyone knew, but no-one knew, and PhoenixâŚ
Phoenix before the class trial, I think he had acquaintances. He had people who he interacted with and heâd refer to as âfriendâ but thereâs a difference between knowing someone and being their actual friend, and I donât think any of them ever reached âfriendâ level. He seems to be a bit of a loner but not by choice, to me. He isnât outgoing, and he doesnât go out of his way to be around people on purpose, it seems. So I suppose there might be a basis for depression always being there in potential, if heâs unintentionally already ostracised from any potential friend groups.
Then the trial happens, and he realises that no one actually likes or trusts him. Everyone sees him as capable of being Bad, of being Untrustworthy, and he is forced by a teacher - someone in a role of responsibility and leadership over the class - to apologise for the thing that he did not do.
He is taught from that age that unless someone speaks up for you, your word alone wonât be trusted. Heâs taught that itâs that easy to have people turn on you. And itâs going to be in his mind that if Miles and Larry hadnât been there, they would still think what they had, and maybe they still do.Â
What people think of us and how they see us is important, and especially as children, it shapes us.
I think next Iâm going to mention that after this, came Miles leaving, and even in the anime although itâs easier than âhe just disappeared one day without a traceâ, itâs still a traumatic thing for a child to go through. And while most children have a larger friend group, Miles had two people. Now, he only has Larry, who is hardly the most mature for his age, sulks, and was (knowingly or not) the instigator of the class trial itself. And heâs left wondering what Miles is up to, and trying to get back in contact even if itâs just emails or letters, and⌠it doesnât work. No response.Â
Heâs going to feel abandoned, forgotten, left behind, and as though heâs being ignored. Even if he knows that these thoughts are intrusive and illogical, Phoenix is an emotional person, not a logical one when it comes to his feelings. And on top of everything else, itâs going to start piling up. And this lasts well before he even sees what Edgeworth is up to.
I canât remember if itâs ever explicitly stated that he begins wanting to be a lawyer at the age of nine; it is stated in an interview that originally, he was actually taking theatre as his major, not actual painting art, and that he was going to study abroad in England, I think, which leads me to believe that he wasnât bad. But he was studying law at the same time, which would make things harder.
And on that subject, Iâm reminded of something else Iâve once stated - the sheer number of times when Phoenix has acted incredibly selfless to the point where I worry about him.Â
He changes his entire career because a friend needs help. He might have really wanted to go into acting, but he chose not to. He might have loved law, but his first choice did seem to be the arts.Â
He keeps putting others above himself, in the small things - such as constantly paying for Mayaâs food - to the bigger things, and it isnât just specific things, but a general gist of âhang on, this happens a lotâ in his attitude.
As Iâve stated on some posts before, he frequently double-guesses himself, which Iâve theorised is why you sometimes get more choices of which direction you want to go, whether youâre going to continue the line of questioning at all, etc., in the earlier games.
Then, thereâs âDollieâ - and the fact that I see his relationship, whether Iris loved him or not, as manipulative (because it was; Iris couldnât let him go without getting that necklace back for Dahlia, so he was being controlled) and afterwards, I wonder if he probably saw that, even if he does keep thoughts of it not being the âsame Dollieâ. Thatâs got to do a number on him, because yet again, heâs been shown to have had his friendship used and abused, and that isnât even starting on the effect Dahliaâs words (of âbeing so uselessâ would have on him.
This is all well before he becomes Mia Feyâs apprentice, and itâs all had plenty of time to settle in and take root.
And on the matter of depression - itâs still depression regardless of whether itâs related to a removable or source-able cause or not. And clinical depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain, of sorts - which can be caused, and I see no reason why everything that happened to Phoenix before even just the first game would create an imbalance just like that.
No one trusts me. No one believes me. Iâm not worth talking to. No one will stay with me if Iâm just myself. If I have this, then I can remind myself that someone else loves me, even when theyâre not nearby. I canât understand why she loves me. She never did. She used me. She tried to kill me. (Would it have been better if Iâd not gone to talk with Doug and just- no, because then she would have gotten away, and that would be worse.) Iâm really not good for much, am I? I keep inconveniencing everyone.
i would also like to add that phoenix clearly has problems with self-acceptance and self esteem. he doubts himself fairly often, and if there was no mia (channeled by maya/pearls) by his side during some trials, he wouldnât be able to win them simply because he doesnât believe he can.
even after winning a few seemingly hopeless cases, he still does not trust himself enough to keep pushing, because he is sure he will fail anyway.
i agree with both of you when it comes to depression as well. he did not become depressed in aj. hell, he did not become depressed in jfa, because there are already many signs of his depression in pw:aa. i would say that his behaviour between turnabout goodbyes/rfta is a great example.
he âlosesâ his maya, the one person that was helping him during his hard times (even if she wasnât completely aware of that), and suddenly his mental state goes downhill. literally the only reason why he decided to help ema was because lana knew the feys and the girls reminded him of mia and maya.Â
he refused to help god knows how many innocent people, and i am sure he wanted  to help them, because hey, heâs the soft-hearted phoenix wright! but he⌠just couldnât. without maya swaying his depressing thoughts away, he couldnât do this.Â
how many nights he spent awake, thinking about how worthless he was? how many times he cried with his face hidden in his pillow, because he should be helping people, not staring at the ceiling the whole day? how many times he whispered apologies to mia for being such an awful lawyer, an awful man?
the fandom likes to talk about cheerful, snarky phoenix as a contrast to grumpy miles, but we have to remember that he is not all smiles and laughs. he has his own demons and he struggles throughout the whole series to fight them.
This I promise you
Dear Ace Attorney friends,
I am typing up this meta post from my painfully slow netbook, hoping for my PC to come back safely. These are the lengths I am ready to go to for dem lawyers. As I lay sleepless last night, a series of personal thoughts strayed in the direction of Justice for All. I have wanted to break down my interpretation of the last case for a very long time, especially because some of its crucial details are easily missed or mistaken for something else. The innate ambiguity of the canon really doesnât help, especially when it comes to the huge mess the law and the courtroom rules are.
However, despite the pile of things that arenât clarified and/or do not make sense, Â there are things I believe can be analyzed with excellent results. If we keep in count the final message of Ace Attorney, the elements of the story are perfectly functional to it.
My post is going to revolve around Miles, for I believe his absence and the circumstances of his return have a great significance in the meaning of this series. Even more so if related to Phoenix and to how the two interact. I already stated here [x] that Miles and Phoenixâs relationship is a direct parallel to the ultimate message of Ace Attorney, which is what makes it so important and worthy of analysis.
Specifically, this post will focus on:
the significance of Milesâ suicide note, and the reasons why I am firmly convinced Phoenix never believed he was dead;
the misunderstandings between Phoenix and Miles and their final resolution;
the role their relationship and Milesâ absence/presence play in the theme of JFA.
This post was, of course, written with the game script constantly at my side. Thus, credits and thanks go to Xcarvenger @ GameFAQs, for having the patience to transcribe it completely. [x]
Lovingly dedicated to @softedgeworthâ, for her patience.
Keep reading
i do think that he âklavier and kristoph come from moneyâ concept makes sense at face value (klavier went to a prodigious legal academy and became a rock star pretty easily and kristoph is VERY elitist especially about class) but my counter-theory is this: they dont come from much at all and those things are directly bc of that
klavier is REALLY smart. he started prosecuting at the age of seventeen, and from an already high-standards school at that. we know that themis isnt invulnerable to nepotism, but we have no reason to believe klavierâs parents had a lot of clout in law like blaise did. it would make sense if he was there via some sort of scholarship, talented enough to be taken in and graduate early.Â
both of them kind of behave like new money. klavier dresses very gaudy, openly showing off evidence of his rock star status. kristoph, like i said earlier, is very smug and carries himself in a very elitist way, looking down on âcommonâ people and riffraff. kristoph could easily just be projecting because he went into a high-paying field and âgot outâ so to speak.Â
we also see that klavier absolutely loses his shit when his guitar burns up, citing how valuable it was. it seems really unlikely that a spoiled rich-from-birth rock star would care that much about something like that, especially when he has other guitars at his disposal. he only seems to spend money on things that he knows he really wants/needs or will value â equipment for his office, musical instruments, transportation. he takes care of the expensive things in his office meticulously, saying how much he treasures them. apollo even outright cites how unusually frugal he is for a rock star.Â
anyway this is a whole lot of words to say: rich privileged gavins bore me and i wanna see more Working Class Gavin families in fanworks
Small attachment to previous post:
I believe one of the greatest testaments to the brilliance of Ace Attorneyâs writing is Phoenix.
Though, according to Takumi, he was written to be as generic and relatable as possible, he is the farthest from being an empty shell with no personality. And what I like the most about him is that his defining character trait, which counts as a quality and sets him apart, is also his biggest flaw.
Phoenix believes in people. He is emotionally invested in their lives and, if he trusts them, he trusts them fully and without question. That is, no doubt, an admirable quality. But what happens when it gets in the way?
The other side to Phoenixâs belief is his most aggravating and limiting flaw: he builds a good, trustworthy image of people in his head, and believes in that image rather than the real person. This leads, more often than not, to him making damaging choices of words and action that nastily clash with what the people around him would actually need.
The writing is well aware of that, and often uses it as a plot device. The entire final case of JFA is built on this premise, and serves as a major blow to his mindset. Even so, the final case of T&T shows he never gets over it completely over the course of the series.
Once again, Miles is a very important source of examples. Phoenix knows Miles for who he was at heart, and by saving his life he gives him the chance of finding himself again. However, Phoenix commits â for a very long time â the fatal mistake of believing in the version of Miles that inhabits his head.
He repeatedly fails to understand, on a very fundamental level, that Miles cannot possibly be the person he believes in. I mean, he is equally just and good at heart; but so much happened in between. The person Miles is by the time of AA1 is a radically different person than what Phoenix expects him to be. At the end of JFA, Phoenix erroneously blames him for ânot being the Miles Edgeworth he knowsâ â something Miles fundamentally cannot be, because life happened. Miles is his own person, with a history Phoenix doesnât comprehend. This leads to Phoenixâs failure to provide him actual constructive support, and brings their intimate emotional relationship to a stalemate (until Miles decides to open up to him, which I am positive will happen in a very near future after the end of the series).
Even after this case, in which this attitude lessens and Phoenix matures significantly on this aspect, Bridge to the Turnabout shows us he still tends to do that. Milesâ emotional state is of such complexity that Phoenix cannot be possibly expected to understand; but instead of sensing its depth, and withdrawing out of respect, Phoenix still makes the mistake of giving interpretations he believes are true (even though he generally keeps them to himself and doesnât speak, a much more mature behavior).
I find it stunning and so enjoyable that Phoenixâs quality is also his flaw, depending on the measure it is applied in. The change of his balance is the biggest sign of growth in him as a person, and it is so extraordinary that a protagonist can undergo such a significant change. It is also this good of a flaw because it isnât born of malice or bad intentions: it depends on the essence of who Phoenix is, and a paradoxical result of his extreme emotional investment.
This is a great analysis! You really dig into one aspect of the internal contradictions that make Phoenix feel so alive.
What this ties into is his other greatest flaw that also counts as one of his qualities - that he acts so much on his emotions. Heâs an emotional person and when he gets invested, itâs with his entire heart. It feeds into his compassion, wanting to help others.
On the other hand? Just like he clings to his internal pictures of how other people are like - in this case Miles - because of his interpretations, he is also prone to let his emotions overshadow his actually quite good understanding of people. He becomes self-absorbed when that happens. With both traits, he fails to reflect his own thoughts and feelings, which leads him to drawing wrong conclusions. He could have sensed that what Miles was feeling was too complex as that he could make even a guess about it. Instead, as youâve said, he makes interpretations that he believes are true.
It shows that he lacks the self-awareness to question his own actions and feelings. But itâs also the same lack because of which he fails to recognize his own good qualities and skills. Both happen because he father focuses on the people surrounding him.
What I find interesting is that his friends make the same mistake - creating an image of Phoenix in their heads and failing to realize that his emotions and motivations are much more complex than the version of him they believe he is. They fall for his, unintentional, facade of an always smiling goody two-shoes, having a hard time even considering he might be feeling bad when it isnât obvious.
In Bridge to the Turnabout, you have the chance as Miles to show Phoenixâs portray to Sister Bikini. She says this:
âThis man⌠His face betrays a life of suffering and great weariness of the world.â
The most Miles can say is, ââŚ.Um, sure.â
I guess this was meant as a joke, especially since Phoenix is smiling in the shown portray. But Sister Bikini is talking about Phoenix himself whom she has already met. She maybe also knows about his history with Iris and Dahlia. Miles, meanwhile, doesnât even offer a rebuttal. Itâs as if he canât even imagine what reason Sister Bikini might be referring to that would make Phoenix feel that negatively - when Miles knows that he found Mia, his mentor, murdered. Or that a killer for hire blackmailed him into defending a guilty client on the threat that Maya would be killed if he failed.
Hey, thanks a lot for the  precious addition!
Fully agreed on Phoenix being emotional and impulsive â I left it implied in the argument, but it is important to say it too. I spent so much time talking about these characters, I sometimes take things for granted. But yes â he doesnât impose his thoughts out of cruelty, he does out of sheer emotion. His self-perception, too, is in no way objective, and remains heavily influenced by the same factor. I also agree on the same thing happening to his friends. AA has this weird way of reflecting real-life experiences I am fully familiar with, and I can tell it would happen. About the portrait thing, though â I donât agree on Miles not being able to connect to Phoenixâs suffering. Though Bikini certainly saw him like that/knew about his suffering, for obvious reasons, rereading part of the script two days ago confirmed to me that Miles shows deep concern and understanding for both him and Maya. He is at a point in which he can, so I am definitely inclined to read that line as one of Takumiâs sometimes unwittingly grim jokes.Â
The issue with Ace Attorney, I think, is that itâs supposed to be way more lighthearted than it actually is. The writing is just too good and deep to let it get away with a role of humour-driven game that features some memorable characters.
The depth and amount of the events that take place in AA are often so overwhelming that the characters just donât have the time and emotional space to dwell on just how twisted and hurtful they are to each of them. This is what their peaceful tomorrow is for, though. In Takumiâs words, their world still exists, and they are enjoying their âlaughter-filled lives with one anotherâ.
I love how the series develops Phoenix and the other characters in a way that doesnât solve their internal conflict forever, but forwards their growth enough to leave them an open road to resolution, promising them a happy, serene future.Â
I love Phoenixâs emotionalism - heâs not afraid to show his feelings! They partially drive the story and are also often the source of his biggest problems, because heâs so impulsive. I bet that half the reason he doesnât self-examine his actions and emotions is that he fears what will rise up in his mind if he does, the anxiety-ridden mess. (While he has no problems with blaming himself for things that arenât his fault.) But then, with all that stuff that has been happening to him, I can see why he would be afraid to revisit those memories - especially because he feels so deeply and strongly.
The games reflect well on how humans make assumptions and presumptions about the people and events around them or which they are involved with. And I didnât know that Miles had become so perceptive of Phoenixâs feelings! Their arguments and emotional stalemate in Farewell, My Turnabout still ring in my mind, making me irritated that Phoenix doesnât spell out why he was so upset with Miles, and Miles at that time not understanding yet how much his disappearance hurt Phoenix. I also remember Bridge to the Turnabout not that well, so I have to read the script again to have all my facts together. Pretty fitting, considering the topic, huh?
But as you say - their world still exists and they have time for talking things out, for better understanding each other. AA3 ends on a good point. I just wish some more of the many things that weigh on them would have been at least mentioned in the game, because. Yeah, they didnât have time before to just think.
someone on the discord server asked me to explain why i think stereotypical straight guys donât like aa4/apollo and i wanted to crosspost it bc I got into new things but I didnât want to type all that shit again so enjoy
a thing about Franziska von Karma
normally, when we get traumatized characters who are good on the inside but just canât allow themselves to express it and have too many layers of bullshit to cut through easily
theyâre stoic
theyâre uptight, proper, emotionless
Miles is this
Miles Edgeworth defaults to his poker face or glare whenever emotions are happening and itâs good and sad and wonderful to watch and he deserves a hug as much as all stoic characters do
Franziska isnât that tho
she is just as much traumatized, she is just as much repressed, she is just as incapable of saying âthank youâ like a normal person
but sheâs not stoic
sheâs a raw nerve, sheâs angry, sheâs hurting, she cries and lashes out
and you can take her at face value and assume that since sheâs showing emotion that means itâs real
or you can see thereâs layers and start writing her as stoic to fall into the good old famiiliar trope thatâs so easy to go by because itâs what always happens
but neither of those are correct. Franziska von Karma contains her emotions behind other emotions because she canât spit it out but she also doesnât have a poker face and so she builds elaborate mountains of bullshit to hide what it is she cares about, because to an emotionally abused kid showing what you care about is just another way you will be hurt
this isnât really a common thing in fiction?
Ryuunosuke - Jersey and Armguard Setting
This was drawn mainly to explain the structure of the arm guard. TakumiD actually told me that he wanted the guard taken away many times over, but since it was one part I couldnât compromise in the design sense, I fought hard to keep it (LOL). I considered that the arm guard would help emphasize the âfinger pointâ signature pose; it would avoid having Ryuunosuke look like a normal student character without the Japanese sword; and it was an insurance to maintain the atmosphere of that period. The jersey was based on the mainstream at that time. When Ryuunosuke wears the uniform, the arm guard would be worn on the inside of the jersey, so the sleeve was set to be of the loose type. The headband was supposed to be used for equipping the sword, but it wouldnât be picturesque as the headband would unravel while the sword is taken off. Therefore, the setting was that the sword was tied together with a ribbon, using the âchestnut-shapedâ hole at the back of the sheath and the belt shown above.
Asougi - Shirt Setting and Headband
The trademark headband was decided from the beginning with the best friend. I had always wanted to put in a character with a headband trailing behind them. Concerning the headbandâs permanently fluttering state, that was an irrational request to the staff in-charge from me (LOL). I had wanted the headband to change its way of fluttering with different emotions, but it seemed to have been taken as small talk (LOL). The shirt is the same as Ryuunosukeâs. The suspender was set to add to the aforementioned âcharacterâ, and the functionality was considered since the saber holder was to be equipped on top of the uniform. This depiction of Asougi appears to give off a relaxed, refreshing feeling.