if you knew what the person in the reblogs said you wouldnt have written this. ilia means no harm he doesnt want to be viewed as a god and you are just making an issue out of nothing
So this has been in my askbox for some time and I was busy painting to give a proper answer. But now I can!
I knew that sentence was going to be taken out of context. The reason why I put it there in the first place is because I wanted it to be vague. I literally stated ‘not because he’s pushing it’ right before ‘but because everyone else is and he’s going along with it’ to imply that this is how people who are not in the known view it.
And i don’t think the person who reblogged read what I wrote properly. They just took this and ran with it, misbelieving that I still think ilia is pushing a certain ideal or that I’m not aware how he’s actually denying that ideal and speaking out about it.
After revising and rewriting it, the objective of my word-vomit turned into: the word being used, the personality built off of it, how it’s received in the eyes of the public and how it can ruin authenticity in art. I explained why so many people think of him this way, why the media writes about him this way, and how he incidentally contributed to it. The topic is not about what he thinks and believes but about him as a public figure and how he is viewed over a period of time according to the nickname he kept.
It’s how the way we present ourselves to other people and how we get talked about, makes a longer lasting impression regardless of our beliefs or what we have said.
I’m really grateful to them for being respectful, and they brought up some great points, but they have no correlation and don’t add to the discussion of what I wrote about. They immediately thought of what I specifically think of him instead of trying to understand what the text is saying verifying exactly the main theme I wrote about.
A typical case of misinterpretation, or in other words, lack of critical thinking. That’s why I went back and edited it to, ‘he looks to be going along with it’. If anyone has a better suggestion for the wording, I’m very open to hearing it. I'm still learning how to effectively write and English is not my first language so I’d be grateful actually.
And please, listen to other opinions and understand what they’re actually saying, the specific words they’re using, and the context they’re using it in and why; regardless of whom they are and what they did. And if you’re confused, ask.
whenever i think of how much yuma loves skating it really does make me emotional. and his journey too aghhh and then on top of it he wants other kids to see the joy it can bring and hes self choreographing
I don't understand why 'should writers read?' is even a question. Do we discuss if musicians should listen to music? If chefs should eat other people's dishes? If carpenters should sit on a chair made by someone else?!
If you're strictly doing things for yourself, sure you don't need to consume other people's works to learn. But if you want to make it into a profession, or at least become good at it, there are standards to be met.
I think this discussion comes because we all already know how to speak a language and use it. So writing for some people might not look that different. And that's wrong because writing is a different craft and it's an entirely different skill.
from the first paragraph i can tell youre a yumabot
Yeah I know we are all self-deprecating perfectionists who are not remotely satisfied with anything and we're constantly envious of everyone else and their skills just like the guy we support.
I mean, some ppl might see it like this. I think this is just being humble and self-aware of yourself and others. But yeah, a lot of yumabots are quite similar. It's funny.
i like how you described yumariybe and I also like your writing especially the ‘subjectivity’ of art pt2
what do you think of ameksa and what do you like most about yumas skating?
Oh wow, thank you. That’s so nice of you to say. I personally don’t think any of my writing, ideas or the points I make are original or new in any way. I just put down whatever’s in my mind and try to make it structured. This is something anyone can do. But I guess I shall take credit for doing it in the first place which is something valuable in itself even if small. So again, thank you.
About my thoughts on yumariybe, I was going to delete that answer because I don’t think it benefits anyone. But after reading Against Interpretation, I guess it’s not as pretentious as I thought it to be because I was describing what I felt and why, lol
I love ameksa/romanza so much. Because of synaesthesia, the colours I associate with it are burgundy, a rich brown and there’s also some sparkles. Stsq of all time, it’s so good especially during nhk trophy. v.1 costume was so nice and so is the lace and front for v.2; it fit him and the program really well. He was able to have really good showings during lombardia, nhk trophy and jnats. It’s really cool.
And anon…I think we might be here all day. It’s just so hard to put into words the brilliance Yuma exhibits.
He puts so much work into everything; I respect him so much as an artist. He’s the epitome of how I want to approach my art and life in general. Recognising and working on your weaknesses to perfect your technique but never forgetting why you do what you and what you want to achieve. And consistently always wanting to improve and challenging yourself no matter what you achieve. His skating speaks for itself just how far he has come. I love how complete it is both in terms of the technical aspect, artistic expression and most importantly, the high quality of execution. It looks so effortless and beautiful and there’s just so much elegance and control in everything down to his fingers. The imperfections and the mistakes he makes just make him that much more real.
I think he’s a skater for the people who love the side characters in a story. And before anyone comes for me, what I mean is that the side characters are just as important as the main. And even though we are the main characters in our own lives, we are the side characters in everyone else’s.
For two years, war interrupted my education and future plans.
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Today, I am taking the first step toward my Master's degree.
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When a young child, not yet 5 years old, contracts smallpox after surviving the horrors of war, injustice, and hundreds of deadly nights, amidst the sounds of planes and tanks, this is not a passing or simple illness
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Sometimes when I see kids like meguru in fiction I end up thinking, 'can kids really be like that?'
Then I remember my parents telling me that back when I was 2 years old and we went to someone's house, they served us mishti (in English they're called sweetmeat) and I looked at our host and asked, 'where are the plates and forks?'
Everytime I remember this, I die a little inside because she scoffed at me and said something along the lines of, 'I'm sorry your highness. We unfortunately don't have the same standards of living as you.' 💀
art is subjective because if its not perceived as art then its not art
Correction. Art that is not perceived as art does not matter and has no value in art according to relative standards (held by some people but not every individual.)
Just because it’s not perceived as art by people or even the artist themselves, it doesn’t mean that it’s not a piece of art. Art is relative because we categorise what is art according to our experiences, views and beliefs.
And the reason why art in itself is relative is because even if it’s not perceived, it’s still real and tangible and that makes it independent.
When something is relative, it’s necessary for it to be perceived. When something is subjective, its existence is dependent on its perception (e.g. beauty)
The reason why beauty and art are separate entities is because art that is not beautiful is still art.
Art is relative just like business is relative. Trade relies on our perception but just because we don’t perceive it as trade, it doesn’t mean that it’s not trade. For example, two kids switch a couple of candies and a toy with each other. This is an informal business transaction but some people might perceive it differently. However, just because it’s perceived in different ways, it doesn’t change the fact that it is trade.
Hope this helps! This confusion is very very common. I was kind of in the same place just a few days ago!
btw it's so fucking stupid you can be anxious physically in your body even after you've decided mentally you don't care. I'm supposed to be in charge here
trying to debunk the ‘art is too subjective’ myth by understanding what makes art subjective (pt. 2)
In my last post, I explained how we wrongfully use the word subjective instead of relative to describe our consumption of art. (I also noticed we sometimes use the word objectively when relative would be more accurate.)
Here I want to talk about what makes art have a mix of objective, subjective and relative traits because just like above, we end up using these words in the wrong context or we have not fully grasped what they mean (I’m guilty of this that’s why I’m writing this.)
Objective
expressing or dealing with facts and conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices or interpretations
Subjective:
a characteristic of or belonging to reality as perceived rather than as independent of mind
Relative:
a thing having a relation to or connection with or necessary dependence on another thing
Words have set meanings; this is an objective fact. Words have set meanings but they can also be used to mean something different given context; this is a relative fact because context is necessary for us to understand the full meaning behind the word. The fact that words are dependent on the perception of their individual meaning and the context they’re used in is a subjective and relative trait; if words are not perceived by their meaning and context, they are not words anymore, they are just sounds. (Specifically, the concept of ‘meaning’ in itself is subjective.)
Art can stand by itself; this is an objective fact. The making of art is relative according to the personal experiences, views and beliefs of the artist and their current situation.
However, what makes art have subjective traits is because beauty is involved at its core. If beauty is not perceived, the concept of what is ‘beautiful’ doesn’t exist; beauty is dependent on the perception of others to be real. (This is why we say, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder.') The same can be said about other abstract concepts.
But how we view and categorise what’s beautiful is relative to our own experiences, views and beliefs.
What I mean to say is that there are certain fundamental traits in art that have subjective concepts and this is what makes art feel more subjective than other sectors such as education, business, politics, etc. even though they all have objective, subjective and relative traits.
For example, knowledge. A piece of knowledge can stand on its own, but we have to discern why it is relevant and why it matters. This is relative to our own experiences. The concept of 'relevance' and 'importance' in itself are subjective because they need to be perceived for them to be real.
The reason why the word relativity gets lost is because it is easy to mix these meanings up. They are very similar but they are also very different.
I also have another theory that people like contradictions, and putting things at odds with each other and boxing complex concepts into easier forms, and by doing that, lots of other things get overlooked.
Another theory is that we do end up understanding the meaning of what is subjective, but we end up categorizing the whole of art as subjective because we continue to ask ourselves, ‘what is art?’
Is art also a concept that relies on our perception for it to be real?
We end up romanticising it and thinking it’s something abstract.
My answer is that this is false. Art is dependent on the artist to make the piece of art. If the artist doesn’t make art, then there is no art and they are not an artist. Art can stand by itself and thus it has to be tangible; if it stays in our head that’s just our imagination.
At the end of the day, we also end up using art and beauty interchangeably. When we say ‘this is art’ what we really mean is that it is beautiful or it made an impression on us, etc. We aren’t wrong to use the word like this since it contextually makes sense, and we’re just adding new meanings to the word art. But we do need to learn how to differentiate art as in a profession or subject and art as an adjective or description.
Edit: I apologise because I made a massive mistake but I thankfully caught myself. Our emotions are not as abstract and subjective as beauty. Yes it's necessary for emotions to be perceived, but it's not an existential need for them to be real. Just because our emotions are not perceived, it doesn't make them not real. This makes emotions relative.
What is going to be part three? Why is critique in art important and not just ‘subjective’? lmao
This comes from my own thoughts and understanding of the world so like if you do catch anything that’s incorrect, please do inform me.
And I want to thank my friend because I was able to understand and clear up some important things.
trying to debunk the ‘art is too subjective’ myth for figure skating (very ambitious of me, I’m aware. give me one chance)
[I’m going to borrow (or basically just steal- whatever word you prefer) points from Beck Leavesley’s video essay. She’s critiquing books and intellectualism but her argument applies to all forms of art.]
Art is nuanced, which means it has subtle and often appealing complex qualities, aspects or distinctions (as in character or tone.)
When people say art is subjective
a characteristic of or belonging to reality as perceived rather than as independent of mind
what they really mean is that art is r e l a t i v e
a thing having a relation to or connection with or necessary dependence on another thing.
Art is relative to our personal experiences, opinions and beliefs.
The piece of art can stand by itself. And this is with every piece of art, it's allowed to exist and it is independent from our own views of it. Our view towards it is why it matters and is relevant to us. This makes it relative. We take our own experience and views and beliefs to the piece of art. And it also can be vice versa.
The art can live by itself, and we can engage with the art.
Subjectivity on the other hand, means that its existence is dependent on how it is perceived rather than it being able to be independent on its own. And for art, that is incorrect.
There is also objectivity in art. But how is it objective? Easy! Because we can get better at it.
When we make art, we put in the effort to learn and craft our work and in turn, we become better artists by doing so. You can’t get better at something that has no standards.
While there are discussions of what is ‘good art’ and what is ‘bad art’ or what even counts as art, within the different art communities, we do agree that there is a certain threshold of quality that is essential for our art to reach.
The reason why art, and in this specific case art in figure skating, often gets categorised as ‘subjective’ is because the performance is primarily meant to please us. It’s easy to say a 3A is impressive because it’s an undeniable fact and we can also explain and break down the logistics behind why it’s an amazing feat and even why it’s distinguished from other triple axels. But for the performance in itself, it’s hard to describe why we think that is amazing, why we feel such strong emotions.
“Beauty is harder to analyse than truth.”
How to Read a Book by Mortimer J Adler
Often in figure skating (basically all the time) skaters get grouped into two categories. The artistic skater and the technical skater: e.g. Yuma and Ilia, and before them, Yuzuru and Nathan. We can classify this as a false dichotomy, meaning that we either refer to them as one or the other, and there’s no other option. And it’s incorrect because Nathan and Ilia are just as much as artists as Yuzuru and Yuma are; they make/made art just like them. To add to this, before Yuzuru and Yuma were talked about as artistic skaters, they were first known as technical focused skaters who (surprise, surprise) lacked in artistry. They had to get better at art to be regarded as good at art.
So then people might say, all these skaters are both artistic and technical, and some lean in at one more than the other. And this is correct, but they all are at different levels. Better terms would be 'high bv and variety of jumps' to signify the base value and risk the skater takes, and 'high quality of execution' to distinguish differences of how well an element was performed. Because perfect technique is also a form of art.
So how can we judge the programs then? There is a way to explain the quality versus enjoyment and how we can start to practice a broader approach to the way we view them.
Here I’m outright stealing Beck’s very serious and highly appreciated Trapezoid of Literary Consumption and moulding it into a Trapezoid of Figure Skating Programs Consumption:
The reason why this is all important is because so often, art in figure skating gets diminished and seen as lesser compared to the technical aspects because of the ISU reasons such as our own emotions and the ‘subjectivity of art’ or more correctly its relative flexibility and how it's so hard to understand.
This doesn’t mean that we ourselves should be oblivious on what makes something the highest form of art. Because if we categorise everything as ‘subjective’ or ‘up to our own taste’ for everyone, we run the risk of keeping on misinterpreting, of not being able to explain why a program is special or remarkable and why we enjoyed it. We also might get overly defensive when something we like gets rightfully critiqued. And we might even overlook the efforts of people who do put in the work, who try to better themselves as artists and push themselves to not only their limits but the limits of what has already been done before.
Art, reading, music, etc. are all participatory. Most of the times, at first, we don’t know. We don’t know why we feel happy or sad, why we are keeping on looking or reading, why we aren’t switching to do something else. But there are reasons behind these points. And we should continue to actively accumulate and search for those reasons and discern what makes something pleasant or good rather than just passively consuming without understanding why. And this is not elitist or pretentious of us. We're doing what we're supposed to do; try to understand each other and ourselves.
If you are confused about anything, please say so, I’ll try my best to explain. If you’re wondering why I went on a rant…this has been in my mind for a while but a friend said, ‘art is too subjective’ and I thought this would be a more respectful answer than, ‘then why the fck do we learn how to do art?’
If you’re going to take one thing away from this, say relative instead of subjective. That’s what you actually mean btw
And there were other points I was going to bring up but I don’t think they’re relevant because this is about consumption of art.
