Where law ends, tyranny begins…
House of Lords, September 14th 2011Â
[EDITED 20 SEPT 17.06 - SEE MESSAGE FROM THE OPPOSITION CHIEF WHIP AT THE END OF THE ORIGINAL PIECE BELOW]
To my mind, this video shows a pivotal moment in the manner in which Bills are dealt with by the present government. We’ve already seen the outrageous way in which the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have dealt with the Committee stages of the Legal Aid Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill (LASPO) and, let’s not forget the Ministry of Injustice also ignoring some 5,000 responses to the earlier consultation
Here, the Welfare Reform Bill is at its Second Reading in the House of Lords. A motion is always moved after Second Reading to commit a Bill to a particular type of Committee - either the Whole House or what they term “Grand Committee”. Where a Bill goes is generally decided through the “usual channels”, although the motion can be voted upon and a final decision made by the House
The problem I have with this is that “usual channels” basically means that the Lords work together and come up with some agreement on how and in what manner a Bill will be debated. Most importantly, how long the Bill will have on the floor of the Main House. This is a good thing!
 However, the Government decided in respect of the Welfare Reform Bill not to continue pursuing agreement with the Opposition (and even those within their own ranks who agreed that the Bill deserved more time before the Whole House). Instead, they decided to not continue using usual channels at all, and instead pressed a motion that the Bill be sent to Grand Committee. This then pushed the issue to the vote
My own thinking - and feel free to call me cynical - is that I think it is pretty clear they would always win such a vote, not least given Prime Minister Cameron’s massive influx of Tory peers of late
I do have serious concerns about the Welfare Reform Bill being hived off to one of the smaller committee rooms. It isn’t just the access issues either, although these are significant given that the space available is significantly smaller and will also present challenges for disabled people or others with mobility difficulties
The important point I should mention here is that proceedings in Grand Committee are identical to those in a Committee of the whole House except that no votes take place – decisions to alter the Bill may only be made with unanimity. Thus when a Question is put, a single voice against an amendment causes the amendment to be negatived and amendments can only be made by general agreement
So, the footage here represents what I think is actually a very important moment, not just for the Welfare Reform Bill, but also for other Bills moving through the Houses - especially the forthcoming LASPO Bill
My guess is that the Government will once again, as soon as LASPO gets to Second Reading in the Lords, move that it be consigned to Grand Committee, thereby reducing the ability for Lords to be successful in gaining amendments, reducing exposure via media and press, reducing significantly the right of the public to be present whilst the Bill is discussed, and so on
As one of the Peers says in the clip above, the way the Government deals with what is probably the most controversial piece of legislation that has passed through the House in decades is tantamount to them seeking to regulate the House of Lords
I hope you get time to watch the full clip. There are actually some very moving speeches in there and it is well worth viewing in full. As I tweeted when it was live, history was being made that day. The problem was, I don’t think it was something we should be proud of
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I’ve just received an email from the Opposition Chief Whip, reproduced in full below:
Welfare Reform Bill - House of Lords Debates
Firstly, can I thank you for making contact with Labours team in the Lords on this important Bill.
Like you and no doubt many others concerned about the Bill and its implications for many people in the UK we were concerned when the Government suddenly announced that it was going to prevent the Bill from being taken on the floor of the main chamber of the House of Lords. As Labour’s Chief Whip, I had been carefully negotiating with the Government to ensure we had the maximum amount of time to discuss its serious implications for the many people in the country who are reliant on the Government to ensure they are free from poverty and receive much needed support. We know too how important and controversial the bill is for many who suffer from a disability.
It is unprecedented for any Government to put a procedural motion of the sort the Government Chief Whip Baroness Anelay did before the House - instructing the Lords to take a Bill in Grand Committee. These things are always reached by mutual agreement. We argued that the Bill needed at least 8 full committee days in the main Chamber of the House of Lords because it is controversial and has big implications for some of the poorest and most vulnerable of our citizens. We did force the issue to a vote and lost 263-211. Most of those supporting the Government were Liberal Democrats and Conservative peers who now have a political majority in the House of Lords.
Now, sadly, the Bill will be considered in a committee room. We will try to ensure that the Bill is not hidden away and forgotten. Most of all we will play our part in ensuring that the room and space used is accessible for those with a disability or mobility problem and that interested members of the public can listen in and access the debates and discussions.
In terms of voting on amendments to the Bill, this is not possible in a Grand Committee. This is one of its disadvantages from an opposition perspective. However, we can vote when the Bill is at Report Stage, though it might limit the number of issues we can realistically oppose in the division lobbies. I will be working out a strategy with our front bench team to ensure we make good use of the opportunities to oppose those parts of the Bill which are most objectionable. We hope that you can help us in this exercise and we would very much welcome your continued interest and contact. If you are involved in a campaign group do please keep sending the briefings. Personal testimonies are also very helpful in debates because they help explain and put in context the issues.
I am attaching the Hansard link (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2011-09-14a.752.4Â ) to the short debate which took place on the location of the committee. Baronesses Jane Campbell and Tanni Grey-Thompson were brilliant from the Cross-benches. I just wish that the Government had not been so dogmatic. Sadly they have put too much controversial legislation into Parliament too quickly and are running out of time in this session to get it through. The Welfare Reform Bill is a victim of their ruthlessness.
Finally thank you for your interest.
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