Or Jaybe Not?

Diary for fandom ranting

[jaybejaybeyes]

Viktor’s commune always gave off creepy vibes, but for me, the path it was taking became crystal clear at the start of ep6. That first scene basically spells out the extent of Viktor’s corruption and how far his actions and mindset are from any kind of altruism.

Think about it: Viktor sees Jayce kill Salo through Salo’s eyes. He’s connected to Salo but doesn’t even try to comfort him, verbally or mentally, or ease his pain with magic in his final moments. He just stands there, watching. Waiting for Salo to die, staring at Jayce. The only time he flinches is when Jayce lunges forward, and Salo dies abruptly — his vision cuts to black.

And look at Viktor's face when it happens. That’s not horror. That’s not astonishment. That’s not grief. It’s… mild annoyance, I'd say?

Like, ugh. Jayce didn’t get it. He didn’t appreciate my work. And now he’s also destroyed one of my puppets. Sounds pretty frustrating, doesn't it, Viktor?

Then Sky says, “poor Salo”, and Viktor? Immediately pivots to, “That’s not Jayce. It’s another will at work within him”. And a moment later, he’s fascinated by the Anomaly. Salo’s gone, and no one spares him an extra thought.

And that’s the thing about Viktor’s commune — it was never about the people who joined it. It was never about understanding them, helping them, or connecting with them. It was all about Viktor’s desperate need to be in control, about his refusal to confront suffering, pain, and all the messy, complicated parts of being human. From the very beginning, it was about Viktor going, “well, the end justifies the means”, but there’s nothing kind or humanistic about that philosophy, because it always comes at the expense of people’s lives. The end never justifies the means.

And honestly, I was surprised to see how many people were mad at Jayce for blasting Viktor at the end of that episode. In my opinion, by then, it was quite clear that Viktor didn’t care much about his Arcane-modified toys. He wasn’t even pretending he did. Salo wasn’t a person to him. None of them were. They were just tools, stepping stones for his glorious evolution.

And all of that was right there in the first scene of ep6.

[jaybejaybeyes]

I’m so over seeing y’all out here talking about how Jayce needed to go through horrors™ in the Anomaly to “understand what it was like for Viktor”, like, seriously? You think Jayce didn’t understand? That he lacked empathy for Viktor? I mean, Jayce? That he wasn’t smart enough to grasp what it cost Viktor to get where he is? That he truly had to go through the same hell for— what, exactly? To become more sympathetic toward Viktor? AS IF HE WASN’T ALREADY??

Anyway, hear me out. Jayce didn’t suffer in the Anomaly because he needed to “finally understand Viktor”. Hell no. Even if that made sense, Jayce is an emotional boy — he wouldn’t need a leg injury and months of horrendous isolation in some godforsaken cave to feel empathy. The real reason Jayce went through all that was because stopping Viktor meant becoming his reflection.

Think about it: Viktor’s bad leg is on the right; Jayce’s is now on the left. Viktor used shimmer on his right hand in s1; Jayce got the Rune fused into his left wrist. They’re literal mirror images of each other, down to the braces and gloves.

And it wasn’t about Jayce needing to “experience Viktor’s struggle firsthand”, and it wasn’t even so much about witnessing the destruction Hextech could cause (like, c’mon, it already gave him enough trauma for several lifetimes by the end of s1 — get this man some therapy and he’d be good). No. This was all about Jayce becoming Viktor’s opposite.

Because while Viktor saw the pattern, Jayce saw the message hidden within.

[samhadjblog2]

Here's the problem with that. All of this doesn't matter in long run because Jayce immediately gives up on Viktor and doesn't even try to explain what he saw. He just say's "Hex-tech is a curse" and that's it.

Another thing

Because while Viktor saw the pattern, Jayce saw the message hidden within.

He didn't. Because Jayce makes a comment about how Viktor didn't need to heal himself because wasn't broken. However Viktor wasn't trying to heal himself because he thought he was broken he was only trying to heal himself because he didn't want to die. And even then he already made peace with his death until Jayce shoves the hex-core into him.

[jaybejaybeyes]

Jayce’s whole monologue was very stupid, in my opinion. That said, I’m fairly certain Viktor struggled with accepting himself long before he learned he was dying, and it’s unlikely he would have rejected the idea of being “healed.” And then, in s2, he openly expressed his desire to perfect everyone around him (as reflected in the physical transformations he imposed on people) and to eliminate their emotions (as he stated explicitly multiple times). The fact that he learned to live with his condition tho is another story entirely.

Plus, by the end of s1, Viktor was very clearly not at peace with dying, But since, unfortunately, s2 completely dropped that storyline, we never actually learn whether he would have come to terms with it or not. 

And Jayce didn’t simply give up on Viktor. He confronted his worst nightmare, realised Hextech was the cause, was in a very troubling place mentally (stress, starvation, hallucinations; he was clearly not thinking rationally and running on shock and fear), and then saw (or believed he saw) that Viktor was fully committed to his new ideology and beyond saving, so he chose what he believed would certainly save the world rather than trying to reason with someone he thought was about to destroy it. And was he wrong? Wasn’t Viktor on his way to destroy the world? None of this, however, means that Jayce didn’t understand or empathise with Viktor. Loving someone doesn’t preclude disagreeing with their choices.

[samhadjblog2]

That said, I’m fairly certain Viktor struggled with accepting himself long before he learned he was dying, and it’s unlikely he would have rejected the idea of being “healed.” And then, in s2, he openly expressed his desire to perfect everyone around him (as reflected in the physical transformations he imposed on people) and to eliminate their emotions (as he stated explicitly multiple times). 

Here's I have with this, we see the main desire out of Viktor during S1 wasn't to fit into the mold of society. He was more interested in making a mark on the world and felt like his dying body was holding him back. And when Viktor became a healer, his whole desire wasn't to "perfect" humanity but rather heal people who wanted to be healed. And he only started to see humanity as flawed wanted to perfect it after Jayce shot him.

And Jayce didn’t simply give up on Viktor. He confronted his worst nightmare, realised Hextech was the cause, was in a very troubling place mentally (stress, starvation, hallucinations; he was clearly not thinking rationally and running on shock and fear), and then saw (or believed he saw)

To me that's kind of weak, to have it be that Jayce was simply crazy, because in episode 7 it seemed less like this place drove him crazy and he gain an interesting introspection of himself. On top of that Jayce just met Viktor's future-self. All Jayce had to do was walk up to Viktor tell him he met his future-self, let Viktor read his mind to see this. And that is it. Because shooting him led to the events of the dark future transpiring in the end.

that Viktor was fully committed to his new ideology and beyond saving, so he chose what he believed would certainly save the world rather than trying to reason with someone he thought was about to destroy it.

Viktor only sought to heal people who wanted to be healed and nothing else. And the fact he met his future self indicates Viktor was not a lost cause.

Look if you enjoyed this story fine. I can see the appeal. And more importantly art is subjective in the end. So I'm just saying that there is a lot of factors that kind of hurt this storyline for me.

[jaybejaybeyes]

Viktor wanting to heal people doesn’t contradict his desire to perfect them and mind-control them. He was doing both long before Jayce shot him. Why else would he make everyone in his commune “beautiful”? I remember someone here on tumblr pointing out how Viktor immediately got rid of Huck’s glasses and reshaped his body into some ideal form, even though all he technically needed to do to make him feel better was to cure his addiction.

And didn’t Viktor make the whole commune dependent on him and mind-controlled it? When Jayce shot him, all of them died because they weren’t independent people anymore. And how Viktor was speaking through Salo’s body, once again, way before Jayce shot him. Yes, it was allegedly with Salo’s consent, but the Salo we knew through both seasons would never let someone just sit inside his mind like that. Which makes me assume that Viktor, together with healing his disability, erased the “bad” traits that actually made Salo who he was, turning him into someone so kind and accommodating.

What I’m saying is: yes, Viktor genuinely wanted to heal people, and yes, he got much more radical after Jayce shot him, but that doesn’t rule out that underneath all that altruism, he was working toward achieving his ultimate goal of glorious evolution all along (a goal that basically meant erasing everyone’s feelings, and a goal Viktor had already talked about before Jayce shot him). Not out of malice, I repeat. Maybe even without realising he was harming anyone. But still, that is what he was doing. 

The whole future Viktor appearance meant that that Viktor had already become a lost cause. He spent eternity in the dead universe he killed himself, so of course he changed his mind after that. But why would anyone want to wait for the world to die just so Viktor could eventually realise he was wrong? And what guarantee was there that Viktor would even believe Jayce — Viktor, who was so successful in creating his ideal commune and convinced he was making the world a better place — if Jayce tried to tell him what his future self had experienced? Or that Viktor wouldn’t just decide that that version of him failed, but he absolutely wouldn’t?

And sorry, but I didn’t say Jayce was crazy. I just mentioned the human factors behind why he reacted the way he did when he saw Viktor. I’m not saying it was the best reaction, only that it’s understandable that, in the state he was in, he blasted Viktor instead of trying to talk sense into him.

[jaybejaybeyes]

I’m so over seeing y’all out here talking about how Jayce needed to go through horrors™ in the Anomaly to “understand what it was like for Viktor”, like, seriously? You think Jayce didn’t understand? That he lacked empathy for Viktor? I mean, Jayce? That he wasn’t smart enough to grasp what it cost Viktor to get where he is? That he truly had to go through the same hell for— what, exactly? To become more sympathetic toward Viktor? AS IF HE WASN’T ALREADY??

Anyway, hear me out. Jayce didn’t suffer in the Anomaly because he needed to “finally understand Viktor”. Hell no. Even if that made sense, Jayce is an emotional boy — he wouldn’t need a leg injury and months of horrendous isolation in some godforsaken cave to feel empathy. The real reason Jayce went through all that was because stopping Viktor meant becoming his reflection.

Think about it: Viktor’s bad leg is on the right; Jayce’s is now on the left. Viktor used shimmer on his right hand in s1; Jayce got the Rune fused into his left wrist. They’re literal mirror images of each other, down to the braces and gloves.

And it wasn’t about Jayce needing to “experience Viktor’s struggle firsthand”, and it wasn’t even so much about witnessing the destruction Hextech could cause (like, c’mon, it already gave him enough trauma for several lifetimes by the end of s1 — get this man some therapy and he’d be good). No. This was all about Jayce becoming Viktor’s opposite.

Because while Viktor saw the pattern, Jayce saw the message hidden within.

[samhadjblog2]

Here's the problem with that. All of this doesn't matter in long run because Jayce immediately gives up on Viktor and doesn't even try to explain what he saw. He just say's "Hex-tech is a curse" and that's it.

Another thing

Because while Viktor saw the pattern, Jayce saw the message hidden within.

He didn't. Because Jayce makes a comment about how Viktor didn't need to heal himself because wasn't broken. However Viktor wasn't trying to heal himself because he thought he was broken he was only trying to heal himself because he didn't want to die. And even then he already made peace with his death until Jayce shoves the hex-core into him.

[jaybejaybeyes]

Jayce’s whole monologue was very stupid, in my opinion. That said, I’m fairly certain Viktor struggled with accepting himself long before he learned he was dying, and it’s unlikely he would have rejected the idea of being “healed.” And then, in s2, he openly expressed his desire to perfect everyone around him (as reflected in the physical transformations he imposed on people) and to eliminate their emotions (as he stated explicitly multiple times). The fact that he learned to live with his condition tho is another story entirely.

Plus, by the end of s1, Viktor was very clearly not at peace with dying, But since, unfortunately, s2 completely dropped that storyline, we never actually learn whether he would have come to terms with it or not. 

And Jayce didn’t simply give up on Viktor. He confronted his worst nightmare, realised Hextech was the cause, was in a very troubling place mentally (stress, starvation, hallucinations; he was clearly not thinking rationally and running on shock and fear), and then saw (or believed he saw) that Viktor was fully committed to his new ideology and beyond saving, so he chose what he believed would certainly save the world rather than trying to reason with someone he thought was about to destroy it. And was he wrong? Wasn’t Viktor on his way to destroy the world? None of this, however, means that Jayce didn’t understand or empathise with Viktor. Loving someone doesn’t preclude disagreeing with their choices.

[arcaneconfessions]

Would fans bully Viktor just as hard as they did Jayce for killing the kid at Silco’s shimmer factory if the creators had the guts to show how the Arcane Herald’s influence in Acts 2–3 led to all those sweet, big-eyed kids from Viktor’s commune dying after Jayce killed Viktor — only to be turned into robots by Viktor, and then likely dying (again) for good when Viktor took the Rune and freed other people he tried to enslave?

.

[jaybejaybeyes]

so, uh. is it just me or does the whole “only you” thing feel kinda off?

not to kill the vibe, cos trust me, i loved the concept initially and bawled my eyes out watching the last ep, but like… now that I’ve had time to sit with it, something about it feels weird. not bad necessarily, but off. 

like, yeah, it is viktor putting ultimate trust in jayce, which is sweet and all, but it also kinda frames viktor as this weirdo who’s so egoistically obsessed with jayce that he’s willing to doom them both (and the world) just cos he can. and idk, i feel like the way the fandom has been romanticising this whole soulmate thing kinda overlooks the fact that this scenario also implies that viktor either never tried to fix things with himself in other timelines or that he tried once or twice, failed, and just went “welp. jayce will handle it then”.

and that’s where it starts bugging me, cos this fandom already loves dumping all the responsibility onto jayce’s shoulders, like, he was supposed to psychically diagnose viktor’s condition in s1, be the perfect politician and solve every conflict in piltover, personally ensure the council never made a bad decision, etc. etc. and now we’re also subtly shifting viktor’s responsibility to deal with the arcane herald stuff onto him, cos viktor himself decided that jayce will fix it anyway, so why even bother.

idk. maybe i’m just overthinking cos i’m tired of how this fandom treats jayce and how it refuses to let viktor actually own up to his fuckups, but just the more i think about this “only you” twist, the weirder it feels.

[jaybejaybeyes]

Something’s been itching in my head for a while, and I finally figured out how to put it into words. One of my biggest issues with Viktor in s2 is that his arc’s ending feels… incomplete. Not necessarily because of what happens, but how it’s framed.

It doesn’t really feel like he comes to grips with the full horror of what he was doing—stripping people of their free will, changing their bodies, turning them into husks. Viktor’s reaction isn’t one of remorse; it seems like one of personal failure. His plan didn’t work. The old alt!Viktor never succeeded in erasing his own emotions. And that’s what the voiceover is about in the scene too—the ultimate, inevitable failure of the Glorious Evolution.

And that’s where it ends. There’s no empathy for the people he forcibly converted, no reckoning with the monstrosity of it all. Just fear and despair from the realisation that it was all futile from the start.

What I’m trying to say is that the show presents an intriguing suggestion: Viktor may have never understood the fundamental problem of his Glorious Evolution, why it was doomed to leave him in “dreamless solitude”. What he did understand, though, was that his attempt to make the world a better place was meant to fail.

Ah. Isn’t that a tragic conclusion for a misguided idealist who took things too far?

Who almost won and failed to realise why he didn’t?

Sure, you can argue that the Arcane/Hexcore was controlling him, stripping away his personality, but isn’t it more compelling to think that Glorious Evolution was something he actually believed in? That it came from him—his fears, his insecurities, his s1 refusal to accept his mortality? That his vision of remaking humanity was tied to his own desperation for a legacy, a way to ensure he was never forgotten?

And look. I don’t mind it if Viktor never realised how horrific his actions were in the end. The show suggests he was completely consumed by his ambition, genuinely willing to sacrifice anything and anyone for his end goal. That tracks. But my issue is that the show doesn’t make it 100% clear. And it’s not because I can’t read between the lines, but rather because there’s no time for us (and Viktor himself) to process that thought in the final scene. Instead, the show cranks the mesmerising visuals, the music, the voiceover; it practically flirts with ambiguity.

Yet in the end, Viktor’s reaction doesn’t feel like the long-awaited narrative clarity. Did Viktor overcome his flaw? Or did he succumb to it? Did he fail? Or did he just get bitter upon realising he could never win? There are enough hints about the answers but the show never fully commits, leaving things elusive.

Looking at his character arc, it seems like his rejection of death in s1 shifts into a willingness to sacrifice himself to destroy the Rune and free the people in s2. But even that feels underwhelming—especially compared to Jayce’s sacrifice, which carries more weight because Jayce had a choice. He could’ve left, but he chose to stay. Viktor, on the other hand, seemed doomed to die/remain in the Hexplane either way. And because we never get a true sense of his motivations in s2 (I mean, not just the stated ones, but the deep, hidden whys and becauses), it’s hard to fully appreciate or even critique the ending of his arc.

And you know what’s really tragic? That is the ending of Viktor’s arc. His journey is over. He, as a character, did everything the narrative needed him to do.

So what was Viktor’s resolution, after all? Did he find clarity, or only fear? Did he understand something about himself in the end? Did he face what he was running from? Did he reflect on what he’d done? Did he ever truly consider that he was in the wrong in s2? Or did he just despair over inevitable failure and choose death over facing a world where (and which) he failed?

Call me soft, but that’s not the kind of narrative ambiguity I enjoy in character journeys. I’d much rather have a clearer framing of Viktor’s ending, something that would let us understand his Arcane* Herald arc more fully and connect with Viktor one last time.

[jaybejaybeyes]

Okay, so I’ve been working on a MelJay fic recently, and once again, I was reminded of how much s2 fumbled by rushing things and not giving MelJay a chance.

I think one of really cool but missed opportunities was exploring post-Pit Jayce, spiralling under the weight of everything that’s happened, almost losing his mind from the sheer guilt, and unconsciously (or in emotional moments) blaming Mel for saving him from the blast. That would’ve made such a powerful parallel to Viktor, who didn’t want to be saved either (but in his turn, by Jayce). It would have deepened Jayce’s guilt, added layers to his grief, and created an incredibly compelling dynamic where he struggles with the burden of survival not just because he feels like he doesn’t deserve it, but because now, he knows that being saved only made everything worse.

On top of that, it could have sparked a much-needed discussion about Mel’s power, how she didn’t fully understand what it was and what it was capable of at the moment of Jinx’s attack. That alone would have tied into the show’s existing themes so well: Jayce saving Viktor without knowing what the Hexcore would do to him and the world, Viktor himself not realising his new full potential at the start… it’s all there, but the show never took the time to dig in and actually explore these parallels in a meaningful way.

On a side note, I think we really underestimate the potential of the Mel-Jayce-Viktor trio as a thematic reflection of each other. We all know the bazillion parallels between Viktor and Mel in s1, but IMO, what Arcane really failed to do was fully connect the dots and explore what the parallels reveal about each character. There was so much potential for these three to be explored as a unit, reflecting and refracting off one another in a way that could’ve given so much more depth to all of them, but the show just skimmed the surface, and it’s even more frustrating given that the groundwork was right there, and all they had to ask themselves was why these parallels mattered in the first place.

[jaybejaybeyes]

Unpopular opinion: season 2 didn’t do Jayvik the justice it deserved.

But BEFORE you throw anything at me, hear me out. Given where things stood after Jinx’s attack, I get why it went the way it did. From that perspective, their portrayal was pretty solid — the inner conflict, the tragic beauty, the whole multiversal soulmate thing even with the uncanny implications of Old Man Viktor forcing timelines into that Herald ending. I cried my eyes out watching the last ep, it was beautiful, but.

Looking back at s1, my heart aches for the missed potential. The biggest one for me is how we never saw Jayce face the slow, inevitable loss of Viktor. The grief, the helplessness, the weight of watching the person closest to him die — never explored (we didn’t even get to see him properly mourn Viktor’s departure in act 1 of s2).  And Viktor? He never had the chance to confront his fear of his legacy being erased again and never shared those thoughts with Jayce.

I know Arcane isn’t about slow hospital room melodrama, but I can’t help but think of the emotional depth we missed. Viktor never had to lean on Jayce — physically and mentally — realising he’s running out of time but he’s got so much to tell him. He never had that raw moment of pure vulnerability, of breaking down — both alone and in front of Jayce — crying, refusing to accept his end, and then coming to terms with it. And Jayce never got to show Viktor how much he’s willing to sacrifice for him in a setting that didn’t require the sacrifice as some heroic act. He mentioned it briefly in s2, but he never actually put everything aside — Council, science — just to be there, letting his life fall apart and the world burn while staying with Viktor, terrified of losing him but trying to stay brave.

Sure, it wouldn’t have been as visually stunning as s2, but I can’t stop thinking about the emotional depth left unexplored — the way it could’ve expanded and enriched their characters. To see them face their greatest fear — losing each other — to see them at their lowest and see their love revealed in such a raw, genuine way… that’s the story I’ll always wish we got

(I suppose I’ll write a fic like that someday and put these thoughts to rest)

[jaybejaybeyes]

Viktor’s commune always gave off creepy vibes, but for me, the path it was taking became crystal clear at the start of ep6. That first scene basically spells out the extent of Viktor’s corruption and how far his actions and mindset are from any kind of altruism.

Think about it: Viktor sees Jayce kill Salo through Salo’s eyes. He’s connected to Salo but doesn’t even try to comfort him, verbally or mentally, or ease his pain with magic in his final moments. He just stands there, watching. Waiting for Salo to die, staring at Jayce. The only time he flinches is when Jayce lunges forward, and Salo dies abruptly — his vision cuts to black.

And look at Viktor's face when it happens. That’s not horror. That’s not astonishment. That’s not grief. It’s… mild annoyance, I'd say?

Like, ugh. Jayce didn’t get it. He didn’t appreciate my work. And now he’s also destroyed one of my puppets. Sounds pretty frustrating, doesn't it, Viktor?

Then Sky says, “poor Salo”, and Viktor? Immediately pivots to, “That’s not Jayce. It’s another will at work within him”. And a moment later, he’s fascinated by the Anomaly. Salo’s gone, and no one spares him an extra thought.

And that’s the thing about Viktor’s commune — it was never about the people who joined it. It was never about understanding them, helping them, or connecting with them. It was all about Viktor’s desperate need to be in control, about his refusal to confront suffering, pain, and all the messy, complicated parts of being human. From the very beginning, it was about Viktor going, “well, the end justifies the means”, but there’s nothing kind or humanistic about that philosophy, because it always comes at the expense of people’s lives. The end never justifies the means.

And honestly, I was surprised to see how many people were mad at Jayce for blasting Viktor at the end of that episode. In my opinion, by then, it was quite clear that Viktor didn’t care much about his Arcane-modified toys. He wasn’t even pretending he did. Salo wasn’t a person to him. None of them were. They were just tools, stepping stones for his glorious evolution.

And all of that was right there in the first scene of ep6.

[straysparks]

I still feel like we were ROBBED of that whole arc, watching Viktor descend to this. Because he gives a shit about Vander, so it's not like he's totally unempathetic--like he's still Viktor. It's just that from the start of the commune up to this point, Viktor has been going through a slow descent into madness from not having a single actual person to talk to who isn't completely bound to him in some way. There is nobody to question him and everyone is relying on him constantly.

Viktor is deeply empathetic but also vulnerable to megalomania, and having a whole group of people worship you for months on end is gonna get to your head eventually even if you really really really hate the idea. Which I think we can be pretty certain he does at first, unless you subscribe to the idea that the Hexcore is really majorly influential to his personality change. I think his disconnection from his empathy is driven by a need to get away from the closeness of the commune members. He's an extremely private person and he gets virtually no space or time to himself for months on end. Seeing the commune members as cogs in a machine is a coping strategy and I must stress that there is NO ONE to check him on this.

I just think there's so much more to explore here about how Viktor could have gotten here all on his own as natural consequences of his actions and his personality dynamics. There's too much that happens behind the scenes in this show, in the timeskips in particular, that I think could benefit from being spelled out.

Hexcore influence is convenient to the narrative, but Viktor's character is set up in such a way that his behavior here isn't even out of character given a particular series of events which we KNOW happen, we just don't see them on screen. It's ooc if you assume Viktor doesn't change between the times we see him on screen, but that's the thing, he DOES.

[freewilllife]

Viktor’s commune always gave off creepy vibes, but for me, the path it was taking became crystal clear at the start of ep6. That first scene basically spells out the extent of Viktor’s corruption and how far his actions and mindset are from any kind of altruism.

@jaybejaybeyes Personally, I interpret this after having some conversations as "Victor´s dream come true".

Indeed, it is a sort of corruption, but it seems Victor is actually well-meaning here.

And look at Viktor's face when it happens. That’s not horror. That’s not astonishment. That’s not grief. It’s… mild annoyance, I'd say?

Why should he grieve Salo´s death? I am just curious. They are neither friends, nor related. Victor "healed" them, but that doesn´t make him Jesus.

He may consider himself responsible in a way, but I doubt, that he became suddenly all-loving.

And that’s the thing about Viktor’s commune — it was never about the people who joined it. It was never about understanding them, helping them, or connecting with them. It was all about Viktor’s desperate need to be in control, about his refusal to confront suffering, pain, and all the messy, complicated parts of being human. From the very beginning, it was about Viktor going, “well, the end justifies the means”, but there’s nothing kind or humanistic about that philosophy, because it always comes at the expense of people’s lives. The end never justifies the means.

Nope, you are definitely wrong. Victor indeed has wished to make the lives of the people better with "hextech" , was even more outspoken, that he did not wish to create weapons and I guess that this commune is literally, how he envishioned it. There is corruption...but it is the arcane at work here. And maybe even in Jayce case.

There can be a conversation to be had, if the people are already dead or are still alive...but what is undoubtly true...The whole commune is dependant on Victor.

People can be both...Yes, Victor wanted to stay alive, but he is not a control-freak...And surely not a guy, who thinks that the "the end justifies the means". I mean, isn´t it funny, that the solution Victor is conviced of, plays in the hands of the arcane, which obviously has a will of its own?

It is literally right there...that the arcane heavily influenced and manipulated Victor, and most likely also Jayce.

The end never justifies the means.

That is an oversimplification. There are cases, where the end literally justifies the means.

And honestly, I was surprised to see how many people were mad at Jayce for blasting Viktor at the end of that episode. In my opinion, by then, it was quite clear that Viktor didn’t care much about his Arcane-modified toys. He wasn’t even pretending he did. Salo wasn’t a person to him. None of them were. They were just tools, stepping stones for his glorious evolution. And all of that was right there in the first scene of ep6.

Oh, that is interesting. Did suddenly "the end justify the means" or becomes murder a great deed, if the right character is killed?

In contrast, Victor tried to be responsible for his commune and tried to protect them, literally dying. I am sorry, but I am not sure, why you suddenly jump to such conclusions?

I still feel like we were ROBBED of that whole arc, watching Viktor descend to this. Because he gives a shit about Vander, so it's not like he's totally unempathetic--like he's still Viktor. It's just that from the start of the commune up to this point, Viktor has been going through a slow descent into madness from not having a single actual person to talk to who isn't completely bound to him in some way. There is nobody to question him and everyone is relying on him constantly.

@straysparks Yes, the influence of the arcane gets stronger.

Viktor is deeply empathetic but also vulnerable to megalomania, and having a whole group of people worship you for months on end is gonna get to your head eventually even if you really really really hate the idea. Which I think we can be pretty certain he does at first, unless you subscribe to the idea that the Hexcore is really majorly influential to his personality change.

Both, but why should this not be the case? The arcane has a will of its own and can be vicious if challenged. Victor was literally drowned in it and hears a voice the moment he wakes up...Of course, he is being changed/manipulated to a certain degree. When Ekko literally broke the armour, Victor woke up and realized, what he had done...This moment of "waking up" does not make much sense, if the arcane has not played a major role in the corruption process.

Because people being wrong are rarely persuaded by violence alone.

I think his disconnection from his empathy is driven by a need to get away from the closeness of the commune members. He's an extremely private person and he gets virtually no space or time to himself for months on end. Seeing the commune members as cogs in a machine is a coping strategy and I must stress that there is NO ONE to check him on this.

Or he already knows deep down , that they are already dead? He does care for them, but I mean, he is literally not Jesus, has hardly any personal attachment to them. In fact, Victor had always difficulties in that area.

Hexcore influence is convenient to the narrative, but Viktor's character is set up in such a way that his behavior here isn't even out of character given a particular series of events which we KNOW happen, we just don't see them on screen. It's ooc if you assume Viktor doesn't change between the times we see him on screen, but that's the thing, he DOES.

The hexcore influence is not just convenient, it literally explains so much...Look here:1,2

I saw the light after reading those posts. Nope, Victor does not suddenly become mad or cold for no reason, he literally is partly mind-controlled.

[jaybejaybeyes]

Thanks for your response! I just want to clarify a few points.

Why should he grieve Salo’s death?

A year passed between acts 1 and 2, and even if Salo didn’t join Viktor’s commune right away, I think he was there for a couple of months. And leaving didn’t seem like an option (I’ll get back to that). If Viktor truly saw the commune members as people worthy of respect, it’s only natural to assume he would’ve formed some kind of bond with them — especially as their leader, living alongside them all that time. Or did he deliberately keep his distance, never engaging, while they unquestioningly existed around him? That’s a rhetorical question — canon doesn’t answer it, and I don’t expect you to either. But if that’s the implication, it only makes things more unsettling.

Now, about leaving not being an option — based on Salo’s unusual behaviour, I’d argue that Viktor’s healing process altered more than just people’s bodies. It also changed their personalities. That’s why, IMO, none of them ever had a choice to leave after the transformation. And that’s the point I’ve been making — both here and in my original post. Viktor never saw the commune members as individuals. But not in a “they’re my lab rats” way. More like a “they’re my fish and I gladly take care of the fish tank” way.

Nope, you are definitely wrong.

I think the key misunderstanding here is the idea that having good intentions and being a control freak consumed by fear and delusion are mutually exclusive. They’re not. I never said that Viktor consciously thought this way. His fears are simply his blind spot. Yes, he genuinely wants to help people, but he also fails to recognise his deeper motivations.

That’s why he ends up not just healing them, but altering their appearances, possibly their personalities, and making them entirely dependent on him. Whether or not he meant to, he severed them from their past lives and gave them new ones, all based on his vision of what’s good, while seeing no issue with it. Sure, in his mind, he’s pursuing a goal that is undeniably noble: making the world a better place. But that exact mindset, coupled with his failure to recognise his blind spots, is what leads to the final battle. That’s what makes Viktor’s symbiosis with Hexcore so dangerous.

That said, none of that makes him an evil mastermind bent on ruling the world. He’s a flawed human who makes mistakes, and he just happened to wield a power that could reshape human souls. I think Viktor is a great example of how even the best and most genuine intentions can end up causing a lot of harm.

The theory that he was mind-controlled by Arcane is interesting and valid, and I agree that Arcane played a role in his changes. But I don’t think that’s the whole story. Viktor was always a complex character with both good and bad traits, and I believe Arcane’s corruption did no more than amplify some of them while dulling others. I don’t see why the fear of losing control would be OOC for him. People can fall into extremes, and Viktor’s extreme (regardless of his connection to Arcane) was the belief that peace could only be achieved by eliminating any potential source of conflict in people — including their literal free will — and imposing that belief on everybody around. Personally, I like to view his arc as his response to the trauma of dying in the bombing rather than his possession by Arcane. But that’s just me.

Oh, that is interesting. Did suddenly "the end justify the means" or becomes murder a great deed, if the right character is killed?

And I feel like I should address this as well. First, with all due respect, I’d appreciate it if we could avoid passive-aggressive language. Second, no, I never said Jayce did a great thing by killing Salo (though one could argue that by then, Salo was already dead — overtaken by Viktor — and was essentially just a robot).

What I did say is that I was surprised by how people reacted as if Jayce had destroyed something pure and sacred when he killed Viktor, because I found the commune suspicious from the start and assumed Jayce had a deeper insight into what was really going on. And as we saw later, Jayce did see the commune as the lifeless constructs Viktor was turning them into. But remember, except for Salo, Jayce didn’t touch any other commune member. His goal was to prevent the world from becoming the nightmare he saw in the parallel reality — in other words, to stop Viktor. And stopping Viktor was exactly what he did.

[cannibaliist]

maybe it's just me but i never found something overly wrong or wrong in general about the way Mel went about being an advisor/investor in hextech? Jayce ASKED for an investor and got one, but was surprised she called them investments as if that's not what they were? It's crazy to me how he forgot she was the reason Jayce was even able to continue making their inventions too. I get he was confused wtvr but his anger was soo misplaced during that scene.

Mel was nothing but open tbh and it took years for them to even finally get together so ppl trying to say she groomed him (grown ass man, mind you) is so insane. Ntm the blatant mischaracterization from both fans and even one of the writers. It's crazy how ppl interpreted her character in s1 to be this "evil corrupt politician," but she never once gave off evil energy, cunning/clever at most honestly. Like Amanda Overtons' evil ass saying she wanted Mel to be this "evil witch"?? and saying she wrote their romance storyline "boring" to push her own agenda..like why are we flaunting hating them as if you didn't fall for blatant propaganda/bad writing against the couple. 💀

And last thing I hate when ppl say she "hated" Viktor because she spoke directly to Jayce when about making the weapons as if Jayce wasn't always the front runner of hextech who had the final say out of everyone. She obviously cared for him like she literally told Jayce "he'll come back to us" after he got sick. That's not there for no reason !!

Anyways I'm done ranting but yeah I love Mel I have like 5 paragraphs of what I rlly want to say but I'll stop here 😆

[lamorenareina]

I've discussed this on Twitter.

This scene greatly undermines the general criticisms of Mel regarding her investment in Hextech. Here, Jayce and Viktor persuade Mel into their cause, not the other way around.

Mel has already saved Jayce from banishment. He returns with Viktor, despite the council's ruling. Mel catches them and Jayce gives a grand speech about why it's worth it for her to look the other way. They ask her for a favor. They ask for her discretion. And her faith.

This is another relevant moment.

It's Jayce who proposes Hextech here: "Hextech. The era of Hextech."

My point: Mel didn't coerce Jayce. He knew he needed an investor for Hextech. He already had the Kiarammans as sponsors before. He knows how it works. Mel made her intentions clear. Not only did she not lie to Jayce, she was incredibly direct with him.

Really, though, it's the difference between how people perceive motives between them. The show is clear that Mel genuinely cared about Piltover and its progress. She even goes against her own mother to protect it.

Also. Practically. RESEARCH REQUIRES FUNDING. Somebody has to pay for it. It ain't free!

I just find people's discussion of Mel to be so incongruent than what is actually shown onscreen.

[jaijeijayjei]

And it makes you wonder- in their opinion what was Mel supposed to do?

Let them be arrested and possibly banished?

Not help them and let them scramble to find sponsors?

Keep her mouth shut when Jayce was about to get eaten alive by those nobles?

Not make a move on the eligible man she’s attracted to, who also is attracted to her?

Stay quiet and keep opinions to herself when she genuinely thought making defense weapons was the safest option?

Because it seems like “the right course of action” they think Mel should’ve taken is to be completely passive to the events happening- because literally, what was she supposed to have done differently for them to accept she acted in good faith?

*and if anyone says “Mel took advantage of them” - literally when does she EVER put them in harms way, take away their control of their invention, threaten them, or do literally anything to indicate that? And again- in your mind, what else was she supposed to do to make it “not taking advantage”?

[jaybejaybeyes]

This might stem from the fandom’s general bias against wealthy characters, where money automatically equals evil. There’s quite some prejudice against topsiders simply because most of them are rich (and it’s gotten to the point where people use “privileged” as an insult for Jayce, even though he clearly came from a middle-class family and genuinely worked his ass off to get where he is).

And because of this bias, anything tied to financial gain is often seen as inherently bad. Which is why characters like Mel (as investors) are assumed to only act in their own self-interest. And, yes, Mel did have personal interest in Hextech — and honestly, why wouldn’t she? Why else would she sponsor it? But she saw it as a good tool to improve life in Piltover. Perhaps what people overlook here is that having personal interests doesn’t necessarily cancel out good intentions. Mel used her financial resources to create meaningful change for the city (and succeeded!)

[jaybejaybeyes]

Remember when the s2 trailers just dropped and some fans were speculating Mel was pregnant with Jayce’s child? Yeah, the wild times. But I wanna confess: although I was somewhat skeptical too, I wasn’t entirely against it. Let me explain.

I get why people were uneasy about it. The fear that Mel would be reduced to a stereotypical damsel in distress, with “mother-to-be” as her only personality trait, was absolutely valid. That was my concern too. But I also had faith that Arcane could tackle this premise without sacrificing Mel’s strength or depth.

And I get it that some people just hate it when stories bring in babies or pregnancies. It’s often handled very badly. Like, cue the overly saccharine, “look how adorable this baby is” moments that make you gag. That’s deffo not what you tune into Arcane for.

But.

If done right, Mel having a child could’ve given such an incredible opportunity for her deeper character study. Think about it: how would her upbringing shape her as a mother? Would she catch herself echoing Ambessa in relation to her own kids in ways she never intended? What insecurities would that stir up? How would she navigate that new life with Noxus watching her family’s every move?

And let’s not forget Jayce. What would he understand — or fail to — about the battles Mel would face in this scenario? Them figuring out that dynamic could’ve been such a rich and emotional journey.

Now, just to be clear: Mel doesn’t have to become a mother to be compelling. But if she did become one, it would’ve offered so many great new insights into her character.

P.S. and don’t even get me started on Jayce as a dad. The man would’ve imploded the first time his mini-me waddled over, said “love you, da”, and kissed him on the cheek. If you can’t handle that visual, you don’t deserve him

[jaybejaybeyes]

The more time passes, the angrier I get about the Meljay ending. Or, more accurately, the lack of one. And no, I’m not even talking about the criminal absence of a single meaningful, soul-baring conversation between them after act 1 s2. I’m talking about all the wasted potential here. Because just imagine the depth the show could’ve explored if it’d actually leaned into their fallout.

Think about how broken Mel must’ve felt after she reached out to Jayce, vulnerable and raw, only for him to turn his back on her. That could’ve hardened her, made her colder, crueller. And Jayce? Who’s such an openhearted, trusting guy with Mel? The only way I can understand him pushing her away in ep8 is if he knew he was about to sacrifice himself fighting Viktor and couldn’t bear to let her get hurt (that said, I hate that trope, there’s nothing worse than one half of a pairing deciding unilaterally to take away the other’s right to choose whether to stay or leave). At least that explanation would’ve been something. But we got no introspection from Jayce, no reflection on their relationship, only his outburst that felt out of left field.

And the tension we could’ve had?? Them wrestling with their conflicting I-need-to-destroy-arcane vs I-am-arcane???

But wait, let’s flip it around for a second. What if they never fell out? What if, after everything, they had a tender reunion, realising they were now (still!) the only people who truly understood each other? What if Mel finally let herself break down in front of him, letting herself be vulnerable, and Jayce found a (however fleeting) reprieve from the madness of his mission to stop Viktor?

Imagine the old Jayce, the one who dreamed big and loved deeply, breaking through the armour the new Jayce’d built up. Imagine their bond with Mel deepening in the aftermath of not one, but two shared traumas (first, bombing, then ending up somewhere unknown, suffering horrors against their will). Picture them finding some solace in each other, healing together, clinging to the idea that maybe,  maybe, they could have something resembling happiness again.

And when the inevitable heartbreak came, it would’ve been absolutely devastating. Not because Jayce “chose Viktor over Mel” (we don’t tolerate this sentiment in this house), but because Jayce knew he was doomed. He knew that Viktor’s fate was entwined with his and that he’d have to make it to the end alone, whether to save Viktor or destroy him. Maybe he even told Mel this, and she understood, because she saw what Viktor meant to him, and she knew their connection was special on so many levels. 

And yet she still hoped. She hoped Jayce would defeat the Machine Herald and come back. She hoped she could finally stand up to her mother and find freedom. Maybe they even dreamed of running away together someday, like, hijacking one of the Noxian ships and leaving everything behind to process their traumas (okay, two kudos and I might think about writing such a fic, lol).

But instead of any of this character study, we got... nothing. Not even a satisfying reason for their fallout. No contemplations from either of them about what they meant to each other. Just a glaring void where their dynamic should’ve been. So, so disappointing.

[jaybejaybeyes]

I’m so over seeing y’all out here talking about how Jayce needed to go through horrors™ in the Anomaly to “understand what it was like for Viktor”, like, seriously? You think Jayce didn’t understand? That he lacked empathy for Viktor? I mean, Jayce? That he wasn’t smart enough to grasp what it cost Viktor to get where he is? That he truly had to go through the same hell for— what, exactly? To become more sympathetic toward Viktor? AS IF HE WASN’T ALREADY??

Anyway, hear me out. Jayce didn’t suffer in the Anomaly because he needed to “finally understand Viktor”. Hell no. Even if that made sense, Jayce is an emotional boy — he wouldn’t need a leg injury and months of horrendous isolation in some godforsaken cave to feel empathy. The real reason Jayce went through all that was because stopping Viktor meant becoming his reflection.

Think about it: Viktor’s bad leg is on the right; Jayce’s is now on the left. Viktor used shimmer on his right hand in s1; Jayce got the Rune fused into his left wrist. They’re literal mirror images of each other, down to the braces and gloves.

And it wasn’t about Jayce needing to “experience Viktor’s struggle firsthand”, and it wasn’t even so much about witnessing the destruction Hextech could cause (like, c’mon, it already gave him enough trauma for several lifetimes by the end of s1 — get this man some therapy and he’d be good). No. This was all about Jayce becoming Viktor’s opposite.

Because while Viktor saw the pattern, Jayce saw the message hidden within.

[coffeeandtonystark]

I’ve noticed this trend in the fandom where people portray Jayvik’s working dynamic as this kind of mentor-student thing, with Viktor being the cautious, genius guide gently reining in Jayce, the reckless, hands-on gremlin, but NO. That’s WRONG.

They’re both absolute disasters. They built a tea corner right next to all their sockets and cables. Neither has ever looked at a safety manual in their life. Their collective self-preservation level is negative five. They can whip up the most complex, groundbreaking invention in ridiculously little time, but the moment they turn it on, it’s either exploding, on fire, or seconds away from both. Heimerdinger wasn’t their supervisor, he was their babysitter. It’s a MIRACLE they didn’t accidentally kill themselves between act 1 and 2 of s1. I mean, guys, it’s canon that Viktor once said “imma do illegal experiments now”, and all Jayce did in response was say “whatever makes you happy pookie 🥰” and make sure the Council wouldn’t ban it.

And here’s the thing: their brilliance and all their achievements come exactly from how they constantly push boundaries. This isn’t “a sarcastic twink lectures his himbo colleague on how to use screwdrivers”. This is pure mad scientist x different font mad scientist. We were blessed with such a rare dynamic and we need to cherish it more

[coffeeandtonystark]

HEAR ME OUT the fact that Cait was open to falling in love with Vi — despite her upbringing among Piltover’s elite — for sure has something to do with her growing up watching her big brother Jayce spending most of his time with Viktor. A Zaunite. And not only spending his time with him, but also trusting him, adoring him, sharing his life dreamTM with him. Their closeness was a prime example of a meaningful relationship that crossed societal boundaries, and seeing that firsthand likely helped to dismantle many biases Cait might’ve had against the Undercity, making her open to forming a deep connection with someone like Vi later in life.

Bonus: Cait had a not blood-related older brother who was a major part of her teenage years, while Vi had a blood-related younger sister who was torn away from her during her own teenage years. Their contrasting experiences with sibling dynamics somehow balance each other out so perfectly