just another helluva hazbin

may post a bit about these shows. they made me feel things

[bluneko91]

Lately, I’ve been reading a lot of discussions about Alastor ships and why so many people see them as toxic, or feel like his character gets completely changed into someone who only exists to be “useful” or even reduced to a servant for the sake of the relationship. And honestly, I can see that too.

I’ve seen countless comments blaming different factors, especially his sexuality, but I believe no sexual preference, gender expression, relationship dynamic, or position inherently makes someone less worthy than another person. The same goes for whether he’s dominant or submissive in a relationship. Every role in love is valid and equal.

So why does it feel like it never works with Alastor?

To me, the answer is because there’s no respect. Alastor is a character people don’t respect.

He’s always framed as the worst person in the room, always the one in the wrong, always the one who needs to be “fixed”, or merely tolerated as “broken” or “evil.”

I think this is also reflected in how many Alastor fans stayed attached to Radiodust. In Radiodust fanfics, Angel Dust was often written as someone who admired Alastor, treated him with genuine tenderness, or even saw him as a savior or simply someone worth loving. Angel Dust is a character that has good qualities, and bad ones. Alastor? Same thing. Good and bad qualities, and the good ones are the reason Angel Dust fall in love with him. That dynamic is much more rare in Alastor’s other ships.

In Radioapple, Lucifer is rarely portrayed as anything other than the divine, depressed angel who graciously “accepts” Alastor, while Alastor himself is depicted as dirty, evil, and tolerated only out of loneliness (as if Lucifer doesn’t owe him any apologies for how he treated him in the show). As if Lucifer never did anything wrong. Lucifer is automatically “the good guy,” while Alastor is automatically “the jerk.” That’s what toxic love looks like, and honestly, I think anyone would grow tired of it eventually.

Even in Radiostatic, (the ones who didn't portrayed Vox as nothing but a "broken baby" who in truth is there only to isolate and destroy Alastor as a person, fanfics who usually start with a depressed Vox who comes in the hotel, that is another trope for another rant) the same feeling remains: Vox is treated like the poor naïve victim, while Alastor is portrayed as the charming but poisonous snake. They portrayed the dinamic as if Alastor is somehow worse than Vox… (when for what we saw in canon that is far from the truth). Even there, in the end we have Vox who is so affectionate. And Alastor? what are Alastor good qualities? *cricket sounds*

This is something I've found that a lot of people found as "oh so romantic":

Person A: "how could you fall in love with a person like me?"

Person B: "I don't know, I just know that I love you"

Sorry guys but really I can't find anything romantic in an exchange like that. ❌

I firmly believe that if a person fall in love with another one, it is because the qualities of the second person have fascinated the first.

"But Alastor is described often as hot or beautiful" Oh and no, beauty didn't count. I really can't see that as a "true quality".

Remember this scene from "The swan princess"?

I'm with Roger here...

Without respect and reciprocal admiration, a relationship eventually becomes exhausting. Without respect, toxicity becomes inevitable. As long as Alastor keeps being treated as“more evil” than everyone else, instead of being judged fairly alongside characters who are constantly excused, infantilized, or romanticized despite not being that different from him, there will never be genuine respect for him. And without respect, he’ll always end up being used and reduced to a servant within ships. That is my thought.

[justanotherhh]

have been more lurking than participating for a hot sec but still enjoying the shows. did this grid and had a Time getting all my faves in there (sorry Millie and Moxxie 😩)

feel like the Need to Explain so: - Blitzo baby boy, full stop - Striker most relatable because I think he's allowed to kill for all the overly sexual stuff that gets pushed on him - honestly this coulda gone to a lot of them but ive written so much about Angel Dust, i think he takes the crown - Carmilla Mommy I mean Carmilla Mommy I mean-- (Vaggie's inner monologue) - Lute, duh - just like the Vibe of Leviathan if im bein honest. no offence to the others, im drawn in by Leviathan as-concept (Mammon close second) - Barbie favourite Hellborn vs Blitzo overall favourite Fite - Velvette, i need her to get Worse - Alastor.... well.......... certainly the fandom's favourite to turn into a blank slate in order to ship whoever with, totally ignoring his canon traits. it's chill but for sure I see so much stuff that makes me go "who is that??" - Sallie May needs more screentime, because a. she's a great different take on family dynamics in this show (she really brought Millie out for me imo) and b. I'd just like to know more about her! - Stolas' songs got me into Helluva Boss so yay - Val, duh - Cherri Bomb: does she need defending? I considered this partly in-show and partly out of it. in-show i'm ready to watch her get her dues (narratively and in terms of what her tragic backstory is and how it'll appear) and out-of-show that she can do no wrong, i need her to blow more shit up, whether she gets worse or gets better it's all the same for me - Loona, I confess I first thought this said overrated and had a different character there. i don't know that Loona is disliked, but i do think she's somewhat overlooked (but I feel this in the show as well -- but there was something about the actress not being available for awhile so). in any case, i think she has potentials as-yet in potentia that could also be explored by fandom -Charlie... can do no right apparently. too chipper? she's too perfect. makes mistakes? how dare she. breaks down? bad writing. save over-achieving women from so-called "analysis" - Fizzarolli and I are already best friends - Niffty, listen. i don't think any character is "carrying the show" Technically, but she's carrying the fucking hotel is what she's carrying and she's carrying my heart and i live and breathe for her scenes! - sry, had to put someone there and... i forgot your name again - Sera, i get annoyed but im like. yeah, makes sense - Vortex, again, im not fully on anybody being wasted potential, that's sort of a full-show retrospective. but i do think there's more that could be done with him (and Loona) so...

[hazbinhyperfixationtime]

[misstrashchan]

Alastor, Rosie, and the performance of amatonormativity:

Alastor and Rosie’s relationship fascinates me as someone who is aspec. Like, Alastor is canonically ace and reads as aroace to me. It’s already rare to see asexual representation in fiction, let alone with a character who isn’t just a side/background character, but Alastor’s repression and having yet to explore his sexuality yet and the commentary he presents on amatanormativity in his relationship with Rosie in particular is delectable to me. 

Examinations of amatornamativity isn’t really explored explicitly yet alone depicted in the subtext of fictional stories a lot, but it does go hand in hand with heteronormativity, which has been explored in queer culture/stories in the past. That the roles of heteronormative values, of gender roles, of romantic or sexual roles, all intertwined, are understood in queer spaces to be costumes one can take on and off and pick and choose from for their own amusement, purpose or exploration of oneself. You can see this in drag culture in particular in deconstructing the performance of gender (and yeah there’s probably some foiling with Angel Dust to be had here), but my experience as an asexual and talking to other asexuals is about the performance of romance/sex. Having a lack of or experiencing romantic and sexual attraction very differently kind of highlights the absurdity of certain expectations of “performing” such things to achieve what is perceived to be the most fulfilling and desirable relationship, but like a costume or a well rehearsed play, there is a kind of joy in putting on a performance of romantic attraction even though there clearly is none there. 

And I see that with Alastor and Rosie and it’s delightful. He comes round in a suit that matches her both in colour and style to her own allusion of Mary Poppins (being her Bert), even though it clashes horribly with the rest of him.

He brings her flowers and chocolates and comes to call on her like he’s courting her, and Rosie responds flirtatiously.

And it’s all pretense. It’s all just a familiar song and dance they’re going through the motions of, and they both know, and no one else is there to witness it, it’s an act that they just both enjoy doing even though they’re not romantically involved. Rosie knows Alastor isn’t interested in romance and I do think it’s key that she’s the one to reveal this aspect of his character in the series itself when it’s something Alastor himself has yet to explore and come to terms with:

“I’m just teasing, I know you’re an ace in the hole”

“ A what now?”

(she says this after implying Alastor was dating Charlie, insinuating she knows he wouldn’t be interested in dating Charlie because he isn’t interested in dating anyone as an “ace in the hole”, thereby implying he falls on the ace spectrum of those uninterested in romance/dating) 

The two of them act like a married couple, the most obvious aspect being there foiling with Lucifer/Lilith and acting like Charlie’s surrogate parents:

Speaking of the Lucilith foiling is the fact that Viv once described their relationship as “behind every great man is an even greater woman” and that rings so true for Alastor and Rosie’s relationship as well. Alastor is introduced as this great and powerful sinner overlord, terrifying and mysterious and clearly having their own nefarious agenda. But it turns out his power is actually from Rosie, and Rosie herself is the one who is more mysterious and powerful, and Alastor’s own agenda is tied to Rosie’s plans, being her pet on a leash.

Them acting out the roles of a married couple also ties into Alastor’s soul being tied to Rosie. A misogynistic term that husbands often refer to their wives is calling them a “ball and chain” that keeps them tied down and limits their freedom. For Alastor, Rosie is quite literally a ball and chain that ties him down, owning his soul, while he is hungry for freedom. The two go through the motions with Rosie playing the role of the “good wife”, sweet and patient, an “honest woman”, with Alastor being in the role of the dirty no-good husband 

“Sounds like you, really could do, with a little reminder of who you’re talking to, an honest woman, always there to lend an ear. I’ve dealt with you fairly, been patient, it’s true-”

“Why don’t you help them, you double dealing manipulator?/What’s in it for me?, I don’t work for free, you want help, well you know the fee!” 

(which makes me think of them foiling Adam/Eve also, especially if Rosie really is Roo/Eve)

Something I think would be very cool is that when Alastor comes more to terms with his own sexuality in being ace he actually becomes more comfortable being open and loving with his friends/found family in the process. Sort of similar to Charlie and Vaggi with Charlie becoming more outwardly feminine as she embraces her more masculine side, and Vaggi being more outwardly masculine as she embraces her feminine side in the S1 finale (@aspoonofsugar wrote a great meta about this) and the two sides starting to mix and integrate.

Him being bound to Rosie in a “marriage” (only in subtext ofc) of sorts and how this comments on amatonormativity, the pressure that is put on people to be in a long term, romantic and sexual relationship, that being single makes one incomplete and lesser, as well as it being harder to get by in society in general, housing, medical care, finances, job opportunities, all can be affected deeply by whether or not you are single or in a relationship. Regardless if you have friends or found family, these are considered less important types of relationship, and grant less social privileges as such. None of these things affect Alastor in hell of course, but the idea is that being in a certain kind of relationship grants one more social mobility, privilege and power, which very much is relevant for Alastor’s character, who craves power and control over his life, believing it to be a means of freedom, even if it literally comes at the cost of his soul and personal freedom.

The pressure that individuals face to stay in relationships that are unhealthy for fear of being single, is very much here in my eyes with Alastor and Rosie’s relationship. He could outsmart her and break his deal with her, gaining his freedom. We’ve seen him capable of such a thing. Their relationship is clearly one that is abusive and unhealthy. But he does go back to her looking to reinstate their deal. Why? Because without her, he is lesser, he is lacking. Coming to terms with feeling complete as someone who is single, (this manifesting in breaking his deal with Rosie for good I imagine) realizing the power that comes in the friendships you have to be just as powerful and affirming, without strings or transactions, and also more authentic than a farcical enactment of a romantic one, would be an incredibly important character arc to me as an asexual. 

[ahli-stuff]

IM SICKKK OF RED

Close ups

2026 vs 2024

[redstonedust]

love the idea of a onesided rival ship. character who is trying to have a homoerotic mindgames relationship vs a nemesis who thinks theyre trying to kill eachother for real. one keeps a framed portrait of the other next to their bed and thinks theyre getting a good grade in kismesis behavior and the other is completely oblivious to all of it.

[blitzyiscalling]

Slow dances in Hazbin Hotel Season 2

[feathers-second-face]

On todays episode of randomly analyzing things nobody asked me to analyze, we have these guys!

And why I think Alastor not only had every right to reject Vox, but why I feel 0 sympathy for the way he went about it! :D

So! Before I do that, I want to point out that I 100% believe Alastor cared about Vox or at the very least enjoyed his company.

You can't deny he looks comfortable and happy here. He did care for Vox - Just not the way Vox wanted, and it wouldn't be enough for him.

Now I'd say this whole interaction definitely hurt the both of them and while I often see people sympathizing with Vox and understanding why he was hurt, I rarely see people sympathizing with Alastor.

Put simply, Vox's proposal was a betrayal.

Not because Alastor got jumpscared by romance (that may have played a part, I'm a romance averse Alastor believer), but because, in his mind, it was a threat.

Firstly, Vox doesn't share. Alastor had an intire part in "When I think About The Future" dedicated to this. When he wants something, he uses people to get it and discards them when he's done. He killed people he should have been working with because he wanted more than what he had. That was the entire reason he ended up in Hell.

And he displayed this same behavior with his friends later as well, even at the very start of Season 2. You could argue this behavior was a result of their falling out, but given the way he operated in life, I'd say this has just always been a part of him.

Vox sees someone he can use or get rid of to further his own goals, and he does it. At the time of the proposal, Alastor very likely knew this. And when Vox asked him out asked him to team up, he saw a threat.

In his mind, the man he'd been close friends with for however long, and the man he probably trusted at this point, had just not-so-subtly outed his plan to use him. In his mind, Vox saw him as another means to an end. That was why he cut it off (insulted the hell out of him, more accurately) rather than gently rejecting him. He had no reason to believe he was being genuine.

He was, and we know that. The creator outright confirmed it. But Alastor doesn't have Twitter and also isn't real. He had no idea, and it's easy to forget that as the audience. He saw a threat - he handled it.

Now that I've gone over why he responded the way he did, I'm going to go over why cutting him off entirely was actually the best decision.

Firstly, going back to Vox's habit of using his friends. We know he was being genuine with his offer here, he cared for Alastor, but you know what else we know he cared about?

And he had no problem throwing them away.

Yeah, he had - and probably still has - romantic feelings for Alastor. He loved him. But how long would it take before he wants something that involves tossing him aside? Maybe the right circumstances would be slim, but the possibility would always be there, just as it was for them.

Secondly, regardless of how Alastor said no, Vox wouldn't have accepted it. This point is short because there's another post that explains it perfectly [Link].

Lastly, and most importantly, Vox is the literal textbook example of a Nice Guy™. He was nice and lovey and clingy until he was told no, and he responded by stalking the guy for 70 years and pulling what many people consider to be SA in S2E4, again, 70 years after the fact. Regardless of how rude Alastor was, or the internalized issues Vox had been struggling with at the time, his response was completely disproportionate and outright disgusting.

Had Alastor said yes to the initial proposal, any rejection later down the line would be met with another blowout that would potentially be worse. At the end of the day, Vox can't handle rejection.

The way I see it, Alastor didn't dodge a bullet, he dodged a nuclear missile, and I stand by that. Sure, he was an asshole at the bar, and his reasons for doing so, while understandable, don't justify it.

But Vox lost all sympathy from me when he pulled the shit he did.

That's all. I've wanted to write this post for a while but Tumblr makes screenshots a big pain to add to posts for some reason so I just suffer- :(

Have a good day!

[polmin]

human! vees after a long day at work

[onesidedradiostatic]

I dislike the notion that unrequited love is some inherent tragedy and that the only way for it to have a happy ending is for them to end up in a relationship in some way (and yes sorry I'm including qprs in this)

I feel like we've come to a point where I see a lot of people treat one-sided radiostatic as the "angst" dynamic and mutual radiostatic as the "fluff" dynamic

as if it's an inherent angst concept for them to NOT end up in a relationship just because vox has unrequited feelings. as if the angst is tied to the unrequited feelings and not the fact that the base relationship of alastor and vox is messy and angsty in itself regardless of unrequited feelings.

a happy ending for the relationship would just be reconciling and getting closure to be on good terms again. no reciprocation or committed relationship needed. and it's not some absolute angsty tragedy for vox for it to be that way.

[justanotherhh]

(your tags.... smthsmth..... people don't consider a non-romantic ending as happy because of amatonormati-)

[lambleigh]

Most shippers treat Alastor like an accessory

this can also apply to the fandom overall not just shippers

Alastor is treated similar to how a lot people treat woman in fiction and real life.

I want to start this post with a bit of context before getting into specific ships and how shippers tend to depict Alastor. I’ve never really liked most Alastor ships. I’m very attached to him as a character, and anything that feels too out of character immediately loses me. To me, almost all Alastor ships especially when they’re framed as mutually romantic or sexual feel like mischaracterization.

That said, there’s been something else bothering me beyond just “this feels OOC.” While watching how Alastor is depicted in certain ships and how people interpret him, I kept feeling unsettled in a way I couldn’t fully articulate. I couldn’t quite put my finger on what, specifically, I disliked. It took me about 2 years (since season 1) to finally understand it and it turns out it wasn’t just mischaracterization that made these ships uncomfortable to me.

A lot of Alastor shipping content doesn’t engage with him as a subject. Instead, he becomes:

A status symbol (“look who I paired him with”)

A reward

A moral trophy

Or an aesthetic (voice, smile, suit, power)

These are accessory treatment.

In fiction, this has historically happened to women:

Their inner lives are irrelevant unless they serve a romance

Their trauma is “flavor”

Their boundaries are ignored because desire overrides consent

Their personality is flattened to traits that please the viewer

With Alastor, you see the same mechanic on how the fandom treats him:

His canon aversion to intimacy is dismissed as “fixable” or a kind of obstacles to work around

His autonomy is overwritten so a ship can function

His trauma is romanticized instead of respected

His violence and control issues are aestheticized rather than interrogated

He stops being a character and becomes a thing to be used for emotional payoff.

He’s objectified like how many women in fiction are because of his demeanor (I believe that’s way), it's actually really interesting to watch. Alastor’s gentleman-like behavior mirrors a set of expectations that have historically been imposed on women in fiction: perfection in every way

Women in fiction are often expected to be:

Polite

Composed

Emotionally contained

Aesthetically pleasing even in distress

Alastor performs that exact thing:

Constant smile

Controlled speech

Impeccable manners

Emotional restraint even under pressure

Alastor can not have any real uglyness to him that isn't visually pleasing to the audience I’ve seem this with how people constantly compare “pilot” Alastor to “show” Alastor (they're the same person to me) where people often expression how they don't like how “show” Alastor shows more of himself and “pilot” was far more contained and it was harder to truly see his emotions. “Pilot Alastor is praised by some people for being more energetic and enthusiastic even thought in the show they make it known that Alastor is getting more and more tired of working at the hotel, he isn't allowed to actually express that in anyway “We can know that he's annoyed but they shouldn't show that too much, it's unpleasant”.

Because he performs flawless composure, audiences subconsciously assume:

> “He exists to be looked at, not listened to.”

That’s the same expectations female characters fall into.

Moral containment

Women are often expected to be “good victims”:

Suffer quietly

Remain likable

Be redeemable and nurturing despite trauma

Alastor gets shoved into a warped version of this:

His darkness is acceptable only if it’s “cool”

His boundaries are ignored because he’s “charming”

His refusal of romance is framed as denial, not choice

Alastor is not allow to verbally express any real discomfort he feels

His gentlemanliness makes people feel entitled to him.

Emotional labor projection

Another parallel:

Women are often expected to regulate others’ emotions.

With Alastor:

People sometimes project emotional softness onto him

They expect him to “eventually open up”

People expect Alastor to open up without any real justification, as if his comfort and vulnerability are things others are entitled to. He’s expected to feel safe and emotionally available on command, even when he’s given no reason to trust or soften.

*Mind you this is the scene right after Vox forced Alastor to watch him and Val have sex

They want him to be the stable, controlled one in relationships

And humbling him and expecting him to effortlessly take care of himself and others all at the same time

But canon Alastor does not exist to soothe others.

That expectation is imposed on him just like it is on women, but why does this happens specifically to Alastor?

Alastor sits at a crossroads of traits that trigger objectification:

Power without any vulnerability

Elegance without emotional access

Restraint mistaken for consent

Trauma hidden behind competence

When a character refuses to emote on demand, fandom often responds by rewriting them to make them consumable.

That rewriting is gendered even when the character is male.

The irony here is that:

Alastor is one of the few characters whose entire arc is about:

Control

Autonomy

Refusal to be owned

Weaponized politeness

And fandom responds by trying to own him anyway.

When a character:

Is composed

Is desirable

Withholds emotional access

Refuses normative intimacy

They are punished by being objectified.

Now with all this mind

One of the things that makes Alastor such a compelling character is that he withholds from us people wanna know him more. He is polite but not warm, charming but not open, helpful but not selfless. He performs control so well that people forget it is a performance. His smile is constant, his manners are impeccable, his voice never cracks and because of that, audiences often assume he is simple. He looks and acts as if he has everything emotionally together when it far more possible he doesn’t.

Alastor is emotionally blunted, not empty. He feels selectively, inconsistently, and often without clarity. He forms attachments slowly on his own terms, and usually through routine, usefulness, or shared structure rather than intimacy. He values autonomy above almost everything. He does not like being owned, commanded, or morally reframed by others. Even his “kindness” is conditional and deliberate. Nothing about him is accidental.

And yet, despite all of this, fandom consistently treats Alastor as if his interiority is optional.

My comparison to him and how women are treated in fiction becomes unavoidable.

In fiction, women especially composed, polite, emotionally restrained women are often treated less as subjects and more as functions . Their trauma is aesthetic. Their boundaries are negotiable. Their refusal is interpreted as tension rather than a choice. Their restraint is read as availability. They are expected to be perfect, palatable, and ultimately consumable.

Alastor fits that same mold almost too well.

He is gentlemanly. He is controlled. He is aesthetically pleasing. He does not emote “correctly.” He rarely explains himself. And because of that, fandom feels entitled to rewrite him into something more accessible. His lack of interest in romance becomes a challenge. His autonomy becomes something to be overcome. His refusal becomes “he just hasn’t met the right person yet.”

Instead of asking who Alastor is, fandom often asks what he can be used for.

That pattern becomes especially obvious when you look at how he’s handled in ships.

Take Lucifer, for example.

In a lot of radioapple content, Alastor is made subservient emotionally, morally, or literally. He is framed as someone who needs to be put in his place, corrected, commanded, or owned. For a recent example of this the “executioner theory” where Lucifer makes a deal with Alastor that allows him to order Alastor to kill on command, as if Alastor’s entire character arc hasn’t been about resisting ownership and refusing chains. This theory alone full proves my point about how a lot people use and place Alastor in different pairs as a mere accessory. What benefit does Alastor have at all in this scenario and even if there was one can't he just optain it himself especially without being under ownership again.

This dynamic is bizarre on a narrative level, but it’s worse on a thematic one.

Alastor is black, mixed-raced Creole man from the early 1900s. Lucifer is depicted as a white, aristocratic embodiment of old power. When fandom imagines Lucifer commanding Alastor, controlling his violence, or “taming” him, it recreates a racialized power dynamic whether people intend it or not. A powerful Black man’s autonomy is stripped so a white authority figure can be centered as dominant, tragic, or morally superior.

What’s especially telling is that these interpretations often ignore Charlie entirely. A deal where Lucifer controls Alastor’s actions by killing any sinner he commands directly contradicts Charlie’s ideology, her dream, and goes against the overall narrative of Hazbin. But those themes are inconvenient when the goal is a ship, so they’re discarded.

Alastor’s autonomy is sacrificed first.

Instead of Lucifer fans trying to question why Lucifer sees not causing harm as a form of punishment to begin with, they instead jump to trying to fix Lucifers problem cuz “poor him” and instead of taking a moment and wondering why Lucifer has that specific punishment to begin with they come to the conclusion of “Lets use Alastor to fix Lucifers personal “problem””.

With Vox, the treatment shifts but the objectification doesn’t disappear.

In Radiosilence (the one-sided dynamic), Alastor often becomes the unattainable prize. His lack of interest isn’t respected as a boundary; it’s framed as an obstacle. Vox’s obsession is explored, centered, indulged while Alastor’s subjectivity fades into the background. He exists to be wanted. Even tho Alastor presents and how he feels about Vox is the prime reason for the existence of this specific kind of ship Ive only seen few people actually dive into how Alastor would feel or behave in this scenario (even tho its canon now) it is almost always focused on how Vox feels.

In Radiostatic, the problem becomes even clearer. Alastor is frequently aestheticized to the point of abstraction. His femininity stays in this one which for some reason is quite rare as people often remove this trait from Alastor within some ships of him, but they sometimes strip his agency. He’s depicted as something Vox has a status symbol, a beautiful possession, emotional jewelry. In many cases, some radiostatic fans have even admitted to not even liking Alastor at all even tho they full ship this ship. He’s there to make Vox happy, to complete Vox’s narrative, to serve Vox’s emotional arc.

Alastor is no longer a person. He is an accessory.

This mirrors exactly how women in fiction are often treated in shipping spaces: valued for what they provide to another characters rather than who they are themselves.

Alastor’s entire character is built around resisting this exact thing. He does not give emotional access freely because he knows what happens when he does.

In some cases people will excuse Vox’s behaviour even if it's not for a ship by saying “Alastor actually enjoys being stalked he enjoys the harrassment, the assault” this very similar how people would blame and try to excuse similar behave made towards woman not even just in fiction.

And fandom responds to this by forcing access anyways, by rewriting his resistance as desire, reframing his boundaries as a kind of denial, and turning his control into compliance.

It’s honestly a shame, because there are so many thoughtful and interesting ways to explore a character like Alastor, yet so many people default to shallow or outright harmful depictions instead. I’ve seen people dismiss the exploration of (queer)platonic dynamics as boring and even when they don’t say it outright, it often feels like they simply don’t know how to engage with a character like Alastor unless romance or sex is involved.

His identity his refusal of intimacy, his control, his emotional distance could be incredibly fun and challenging to work with, but instead fandom keeps forcing him into amatonormative frameworks that flatten him. Rather than asking what kind of connections Alastor would choose, people focus on reshaping him into something easier to consume. And that, more than anything, feels like such a waste.

I also can’t help but notice that some people pride themselves in their understanding of complex issues like representation, ethics, or specific dynamics making analysis after analysis but when the opportunity arises and if they’re not faced with anything that they personally can not relate to or can not view as surface level, they shut down. They skim the surface, dismiss concerns, or talk over people actually trying to engage, because confronting the topic might force them to confront their own perception. It’s easier to stay comfortable, keep everything flat, and avoid thinking too deeply but doing that only guarantees the same problems keep repeating. The reaction people gave when the conversation of Alastor experiencing racism while alive and how people in this fandom would much rather fight hard to dismiss this idea rather look at how that would effect him and his relationships with others characters was telling, on how they are either ignorant and/or uncomfortable with digging deep into such topic

The fact that this is happening to a male character was actually very confusing to me at first I constantly wondered “what is it about character that makes people treat him like this”. There is more I wish to expand on but Alastor is non-normatively masculine, he's feminine in how he carries himself but he visually masculine enough where his popularity isn't diminished, his racially identity, emotionally restrained, and uninterested in traditional romance. Those are the same traits that have historically made women easier to objectify in fiction.

So, Why is Alastor’s autonomy always the first thing to go?

There something about Alastor that doesn't give him the same amount of privilege that other male character get and i do believe it has to do with even more things than just him having a lot of womanly attributes and once I notice it, I started to notice it everywhere and its very obvious that people are completely unaware of these implications when addressing Alastor but then that would have to bring up another conversation as to why these kinds of interpretation of him is the “default” and and why people don't immediately notice the implications of these depictions.

I could make a second part of this and going into more as to why this happens more maybe

This could probably be seen as a fandom critique post but I get scared posting anything that has critique and Hazbin in it cuz I dont wanna attract certain kind of people 😭, but this has got to be something that is my biggest problem with being in this fandom as it melts down into a lot of issues like, racism, misygony, a/arophobia, and even ableism if I wanted to go even deeper into things, obviously not ever shipper is doing this (I feel that should be common sense)

[justanotherhh]

I also can’t help but notice that some people pride themselves in their understanding of complex issues like representation, ethics, or specific dynamics making analysis after analysis but when the opportunity arises and if they’re not faced with anything that they personally can not relate to or can not view as surface level, they shut down. They skim the surface, dismiss concerns, or talk over people actually trying to engage, because confronting the topic might force them to confront their own perception.

Posted a bit on imagining where on the aroace spectrum Alastor might fall (personally my favourite is loveless repulsed), and I've done similar for other characters in other fandoms on other blogs. and I am usually met with like. A few reblogs and likes from the same tiny crowd, without there being much of a wider dent in larger fandom.

And I'm chill, on the whole, with being in more niche spaces (liking women and aroace takes tends to put one on the fringes) but I do get incredibly uncomfortable with the internalised biases on display when people don't respect these facets of characters + these characters in their respective plotlines.

As for your point about Alastor as aroace being treated by fandom shippers the way mainstream media tends to treat women in romantic plots.... I'm not at all surprised/have been thinking the same and seeing the same when aroace characters (or heavily coded characters, because often "character who has these boundaries" isn't named as such due to a lack of knowledge but that's a separate thing).

I can make a whole wide list of aroace characters and coded characters who are treated as accessories, as "to have their secret desire for normal romantic-sexual intimacy (monogamy) unlocked," as having to learn to not be frigid/inaccessible to the other character, as having to be taken down a deserved peg, literally off the top of my head (by fandom). Regardless of gender.

And if that sounds familiar...

My point is that aroace people have a lot in common with women in real life too, regardless of gender. This is more anecdotal but personally and with people I know we've had invasive questions, enforced ideas about how if we're attractive we're "actually asking for it" and if not then "it's just an excuse because we're not hot," (I have one friend who was told by someone they know that they just needed to "look more fuckable" and was given an offer to help with that), touches and advances against our consent, attempts to "wear us down," demands to know what trauma "caused" this, etc.

Not to get really dark, but asexual people and conversion therapy and assault to fix them is documented (and the overlap between ace and aro is extensive enough that although it's not as recorded -- because of invisibility -- i am fairly certain it goes hand in hand).

Now.

Fandom is not real life.

But the biases in fandom -- like the times I've seen the excellent point brought up that hey maybe it's weird to fuck with Alastor's agency vis a vis Lucifer considering how Alastor is a black man! including on this very post -- are microcosms of reality. Fandom is made up of real people.

And if it makes people uncomfortable to hear that they have internalised biases to unlearn, imagine how it makes us feel to just... see people not caring, in the spaces we go to in order to also have a good time. It's quite hard for us to have that good time. And I think people should be making a greater effort to be inclusive.

And like. Yeah maybe think a bit harder about character nuances too, from a "person who likes characters based in source material" it gets boring to see those nuances stripped away just to make dudes kiss. But that's more the pedant in me.

* EDIT ALSO THAT I DIDNT INITIALLY ADD BUT: AROACENESS IS REALLY INTERESTING!!!!!! IT HAS SO MANY NUANCES!!!!!! IT'S A SPECTRUM OF EXPERIENCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and i wish people wouldn't shut off to thinking about all the various ways a character can embody that aroaceness. be curious, plssss. ask questions! try things out!

[onesidedradiostatic]

radio trio are all arospec 2 ME.

happy last day of arospec week! featuring frayromantic niffty, aromantic alastor (duh) and demiromantic husk

[onesidedradiostatic]

Frayromantic (also known as ignotaromantic) is a romantic orientation on the aromantic spectrum. It is defined as when someone only experiences romantic attraction towards those that they are not deeply connected with, and lose that attraction as they get to know the person. Frayromantic is often described as being "the opposite of demiromantic".

[justanotherhh]

earnest plea from trans ppl in any fandom: please please let harry potter go, please do not make AUs with harry potter, or put harry potter in all your fandom spaces. it makes those spaces unsafe for trans people, who will not know if you're an active supporter of one of the most prominent transphobes in the world right now or just don't care about us enough to make an effort (which also supports her).

please let that franchise die. please do not give it/her attention or money. please let trans people not have to think about how someone so powerful wants us not to exist for the few fun hours that are fandom-related. let it be the relic that it is.

[gothamcitycentral]

I am convinced that, unfortunately, Valentino is perfectly likable to others when in a domestic setting. Charlie would absolutely tackily glue bedazzle gems on shit with him, Vaggi and him rant in spanish at each other, Niffty already gets a kick out of him to his chagrin, Baxter and him parallel play taking notes and drawing in his stretch book, everyone spent preS2 thinking Alastor would rather die than be around Val and then we find out they get along perfectly. This is worse than if he just sucked because now they’re conflicted about it

[vanemiin]

What's this? It's Fizz in the face! 🌈

[vanemiin]

Based on that ending scene from the KnK movie, because I think it perfectly represents the stolitz family dynamic 😂

[justanotherhh]

have like... three drafts of thoughts and answers to people that i should just finish up but the timing never heckn happens. hopefully january!