This post will be focusing on problematic tropes (more so than the many plot holes).Prior to this, I thought some of these writing choices were intentional subtext and symbolism for a greater plot point (and that these tropes would later be subverted) . This wasn't the case. I'm mentioning these tropes now: for people to grasp why we shouldn't reward the Duffers in their future projects. And how normalizing these tropes (in main stream shows) will negatively impact future story telling for the worse.
Fridging trope: El embodies this as her death is used as a catalyst for various male character's development in the finale. The Duffers saying El was never going to be with the gang in the end , because she "represents the magic of childhood" for the boys is just sad. Because yes-characters can represent something, but writers need to understand they're MORE than just a symbol of something (they're also a person/character in the narrative). The fact she also represents the magic of childhood of all things is awfully portrayed since Jane herself never even had a real childhood - and because of the writers , she's also deprived of an adulthood .
In s5, bringing back Kali (one of the only brown girls in the show) to essentially just make her suffer and die. They brought her back: k*lled her found family , had her tortured by the gov again, and then she's shot by the gov. God forbid, a brown girl shoots her white oppressors (the writers have to k*ll her the same way she offed her abusers). Kali targeting her ab*sers was portrayed as morally questionable/nuanced in the show. But white Jim & Nancy mowing down random soldiers with bullets, or El killing a bunch of American/soviet soldiers was just to make them look 'bad ass'. The audience never has to question their morality for doing so- only Kali's. If you believe's mike's theory: that would mean they just used Kali to save and give the white heroine a happy ending (which is gross optics in and of itself).
If you believe that El died along with Kali (this is also problematic). They couldn't let El/Kali : the victims of government oppression and abuse get a "happy ending" . In fact both die due to the government .What an uplifting message during these fraught political times. Remember Hopperâs speech where the whole point was Kali/El shouldnât have to off themselves since they deserve a happy ending (despite life being unfair to them constantly)? What was the point? Idk , if you don't die , off yourself if life has been cruel.Killing El / kali to stop the "cycle " isnât empowering at all. Itâs a harmful message to ab*se survivors!!!
Had Erica and Lucas in s4 be in a scene comparable to police brutality . Even having Jason point a gun at Lucas. And having poor Erica be tackled by a man (talked about it more thoroughly here) .The writers didnât have the guts to meaningfully touch on how prevalent racism was in the 80s - so without doing so it just felt like they were exploiting black trauma for suspense. Without even thinking of how that would negatively affect or trigger black viewers. They also made Billy racist but not explicitly so. Arguably so fans could still thirst after Billy and deny his racism -and possible so they could keep their racist fans within the G.A. They could have called out the deniers after s2 via an interview a long time ago. And in s3 they gave Billy a redemption arc when his racism wasn't even rectified in s3 (they just ignored it)? Tbf , Lucas was very much likable and level headed for most of the seasons (Iâll give them that) . And I also appreciate how intelligent and affluent they made both Lucas & Erica . But, I did find some aspects of Ericaâs portrayal problematic since the very beginning- she always seemed to embody the âsapphire/sassy trope.â And Erica's actress has verbally implied she's had qualms with Erica embodying the " sassy black woman" trope (although subtly).
After the finale the Duffers also claimed that "no one is concerned about Erica" cause she's "so tough". Can we stop the adultification/masculinizing of young black girls? It's awful and problematic .Isn't her character in middle school (it would be normal to be concerned for her cause she's a literal child)?! I hope she gets better roles in the future.
They never addressed what happened to Argyle, when they could of just said a random one liner saying he left the city before the military check points were set-up. They also didn't even give the actor a heads-up that he would not be returning for s5. It just shows to me that once again they don't care about the majority of their poc characters or even actors .Similar to Erica , Argyle could also fall into another problematic trope: the "hispanic stoner trope".
QUEER REP: QUEER BAITING A COUPLE. Constantly comparing Mike/ Will to canon couples for 5 seasons just to foreshadow unrequited love . And also use byler in marketing/social media constantly. Will said that if he lost mike he'd want it to be done like 'ripping off a bandaid' (the writers didn't give the queer viewers that- they dragged us along even in the finale, cause they wanted our viewership and engagement to make money). They repeat the tired old trope of : gay best friend needs to gets over straight bff (who is in love with the main heroine). Then have the gay friend lie to prop up and fix that straight pairing (while establishing the cyarno trope with the painting but never addressing it) . And in that season , they have him literally 3rd wheel the straight couple just to make him suffer (and use him as a punching bag for the whole series).Because a lot of straight writers subconsciously romanticize queer pain (and think it adds depth to their writing) .
Then they force said gay character to come out because he was coerced to by the villain . While the show never even uses the word "gay" for either Robin or Will . Then the sapphic couple also gets together/break up OFF SCREEN (while all the straight couples get actual development or closure) . They have the show take place during the aids epidemic with no mentions of it, and ignore the fact that 'anti gay propaganda' was prolific in the 80s . If Duffers want to talk about ârealismâ to justify Will getting rejected : it's not "realistic", for a room full of straight people to all be accepting of Will in the 80s . Letâs talk about how the Duffers barely talk about homophobia- so the straight audience doesnât feel too bad about their own subconscious biases and LONG history of discriminatory practices ! THAT'S NOT "REALISTIC"-it's HISTORICAL REVISIONISM. The straight G.A bullied the queer fanbase for years (because queer viewers wanted better queer rep and fell for the queer bait). Those bullies never have to reflect on their actions (they're rewarded). They also didn't even give Will an actual 'rejection': he just rejects himself which is almost worse. Then he gets a 0.5s scene with a nameless guy -wow how revolutionary . "Gay epilogue bf/gf" is also another problematic gay trope.
Because an epilogue bf is a "tokenistic nod rather than meaningful inclusion" of a romantic gay relationship . At least El & Will are away from Ted 2.0 .Will getting rejected is just remnants of the Usa's Hays code: which made it illegal for films, tv and books to have a queer character in them unless they die , have an unrequited love, or a sad ending . This is also why shows do subtle queer coding even today (it was how writers back then got around the law to give their queer characters a happy ending) . The coding in ST was for queer readers to pick up on , while straight viewers would not . And that's why straight viewers today will say we're "delusional " : queer coding is now primarily weaponized by straight writers for marketing purposes. They know queer coding is usually only noticed by queer viewers . And they use this to their advantage when 'baiting' a queer couple, and not following through. They take advantage of the queer viewers, but also use their straight /heteronormative viewers as a shield (since they know they'll defend them in the end) .
Using sa/csa imagery with the monsters just for shock value. And as an âallegoryâ again cause they didnât have the guts to address the subject (just like they didnât have the guts to address homophobia or racism thoroughly or meaningful ) .They just triggered a bunch of sa victims for nothing , and for multiple seasons . As a gay csa victim this really pisses me off.
This is disgusting because there was no narrative reason to do this. It's not like they even tried to explore how and why THIS specifically would traumatize Will. They just did it for shock value and to torture their gay character some more. And they doubled down on this imagery in s5 with other kids- for again seemingly no narrative reason. Or maybe for more nefarious reasons...
Have Karen (who is in her 40s) almost hook up with a teenage (18y old) Billy . And she doesnât even call it off cause of his age but because âshe has a family.â In a lot of ways Karen was the goat but that choice did ruin her character for me. Couldnât she at least tell Billy: âyou're much too young for me. I don't want to take advantage of you" in addition to her 'having a family' comment? Also having Murray encourage teenagers to bang was weird. I'm SIDE EYE-ing the Duffers forever . Especially cause they also added superfluous csa imagery and forced us to watch kids make out in s3.
In the Wheeler family, this questionable behavior isn't just from Karen . We have El (who didnât initially know what a friend was ) ask Mike if heâd be her brother or friend at the snowball- and then he kisses her. In s2 we see a gifted boy (who talks about "ectotherms") be "IN LOVE" with a girl who was just learning how to tell time and what âcompromiseâ means . Then in s3, Mike just makes out with her constantly despite El having to ask Max âhow do I know what I like?â And in s3 she didn't even knowing what Illinois was (even after going to Chicago in s2). But- there was no (morally questionable) power imbalance between the 2 .Nope...not SUPER Creepy at all . No real world implications. I'm probably overthinking it : it's not like men in real life have weird fantasies about taking advantage of naive -impressionable girls with less knowledge of the real world than them so they can manipulate and groom them into a relationship (laughs nervously).
In real life, Mike would have been jumped for taking advantage of such a girl. Yeah, she matured and grew later on (but them dating, especially in the early seasons was always creepy and morally questionable). Myself (and others) have been saying for years: she needed friends, family , and socialization before she jumped head-first into a romantic relationship.
The worst part is the Duffers placed a child in an old problematic sci-fi/fantasy trope called "born sexy yesterday" . No , I'm not saying she was sexy for people who love twisting my words. The trope has been around for decades but the term was only recently coined by youtuber 'pop culture detective' . (I'd recommend watching the video about it ) . The trope is usually about "a main heroine who has superpowers , but is mentally stunted like a child (and has little to no exposure to the outside world) . Her male love interest is often a normal (or nerdy) human man who teaches her about the real world and grooms her into a relationship ."
One alarming thing I learned from 'pop culture detective's" video was that an element of the trope involves the woman innocently undressing in front of a group of men cause she doesn't understand the social rules (this is usually done for gross fan-service) . This made my heart stop cause El did attempt to undress in front of the boys in the 1st episode. Initially, I though that it was to indicate how little privacy at the lab she had (or worse) . Now I'm just side eyeing the writers who wrote this (especially given how infamous Hollywood is toward child actors)...
The Duffers didn't subvert the trope: by showing how problematic Mike/El were together and letting El break it off . But instead they doubled-down on romanticizing their relationship .And worst of all: they used a child for the trope, which is EVEN WORSE than the initial problematic trope itself!!!!!! Mike was also clearly their self insert so it's even creepier .
Compared Mileven to to El & Brenner, El& hopper and El& Henry (post with proofs here) . But then they sell mileven as a romantic fantasy despite Mike STILL not being able to say âI love youâ back to her in s5. You suck, Wheeler . The fact Elâs whole life has been controlled by men that thought they knew what was best for her. And then they made El's sacrifice revolve around her (not great) bf is just gross and frankly unearned. Especially given how little positive development we saw of their relationship. She literally said in s4 Mike didn't "understand" her , but then in s5 claimed Mike was the only one who "understood" her. It was so obvious men wrote this line to fulfill their (Mike) self-insert fantasy. GROSS. El deserved to live and have fulfilling relationships and bonds with other women. Especially when men took away her mother,aunt, "sister", childhood, and even her ability to express her femininity.
Mileven was also compared to Ted/karen. And even without El , Mike still conforms with his Ted glasses and ends up like his father who is oblivious to the world around him: hanging up the painting that he still thinks El commissioned . "you're just blind that a girl's not grossed out by you."
He falls for the false fantasy of El (that Will made). Just like in the end, Mike writes her in his fantasy: as a mage who is in a far away land with waterfalls. Even when El herself said about this fantasy :â life isnât like one of your campaigns, you canât write the ending.â And he proceeds to do just that (re-write HER ending and everyone else's)! Just like the Duffers , Mike didn't see the real her, only a fantasy of her. To them she was just a a symbol of "childhood magic "(like the characters in Mike's childhood game). Mike also doesnât move on like everyone else , and the party seemingly drifts apart and heâs alone like he always feared. He never becomes "Mike the brave" in the finale either ,unlike Holly the heroic or even Will the sorcerer who said he'll no longer be "afraid". And Mike is left with "regrets", that he said he wanted to prevent. How weirdly (and unintentionally) bleak for a self-insert character? Divorce get to you Ross?
Also having an open ending can theoretically work. But if El dying and El surviving both have GAPING PLOT HOLES. It's just poor writing.
Have almost all the character spy and stalk a love interest. Jonathan using the camera on Nancy , Lucas using binoculars to spy on max, Steve spying on a girl he was into in s3 with binoculars, El /Max spying on Mike & Lucas after their breakup Aka: stalking for love trope.
Why did the characters spying on one another parallel the hyper-surveillance of the us gov, or the spying of the mindflayer? Duffers probably: "no reason, we just do parallels for fun with no deep thematics behind it." They also had Jonathan throw out Nancy's sweater cause it was pink . SMH duffersâ incel energy unfairly affecting Jonathanâs character. Some aspects of how the women were written were done well. But, sometimes subconscious misogyny seemed to seep through -by the duffers or another writer . Besides Kali/El's endings being evidence of that. Why was Tina "the worst" in the family, when Derick was clearly the menace before his redemption arc? Was it necessary to have the children call Holly a b*tch, strangle her, and throw her down the stairs? I could go on...
I have mixed feelings about this next one, because they tortured Max for s2-5 . And frankly I would have preferred if Max just broke the curse in s4 , like Will broke the m.f's control in s2. So, I'm glad she got her happy ending in s5 . I get that realistically : her bones healed, and her atrophied muscles healed too (even thought they ignored the fact that Max would also realistically be on a feeding tube and IV while in the the hospital). But , the fact vecna's curse was broken so her blindness is just gone... I'm curious how some other viewers with disabilities felt about this? Lucas even claimed Mike was "blind" because of a girl. So Max being "blind" was possibly a call back. You could argue Max being physically fine in the end is part of the "throwing off the disability" trope.
They play Hopperâs explosive anger as a joke even in the finale (haha so cute that heâs yelling at Joyceâs son for making a simple camera mistake.) Letâs have Joyce get with a guy with anger issues even though she already divorced a guy who would yell and insult her sons . Hopper had some great characterization even in the finale but they flanderized and tried to make his anger issues comical from s3 and beyond . The way he talked to her in s3 was appalling . Hopper in s3 is made into a male power fantasy : an angry , gun slinger , who was based off of magnum pi and other macho men from that era of tv/film . Joyce doesnât get with nerdy, sweet, emotionally intelligent bob whose had a crush on her since high school (he is brutally killed looking at her with love ). "Nice guys can't win": all cause the nerdy Duffers didn't pull in high school.
So instead she gets with the macho archetype from the era . Even when Murray in s3 pointed out that Jim reminded her of Lonnie . Why even have him say this if we're supposed to want them together??? Duffers really struggle to write healthy relationships.
Also Hopper (the white burly cop) saying he wanted to "kill" Kali (the petite brown woman) was SO DISGUSTING, especially in this political climate. The optics were very problematic. And at that point in the story (from Hopper's pov) all she did was call him out for lying . He even insulted her ,to her face, when she tried to calmly talk to him. It was just really awful to watch- especially cause Kali didn't make it in the end.
Have Murray go through military checkpoints, and be the one that drives aid & food into a fenced-in town under military occupation . When Brett Gelman is a racist Zionist who supported the Military siege , bombing, blocking of aid and starvation of Gazans who were also in an enclosed fenced city .
And Palestinians outside of Gaza also have to use different roads and go through various military checkpoints unlike their Israeli counterparts (as part of the 70+ year apartheid). Having the kids literally escape the occupying military force by going into tunnels (was a choice when israel uses the fact Gaza has tunnels as an excuse to bomb hospitals, schools, churches, mosques, etc). And having Murray blow up a military helicopter (while palestinian kids are often arrested for simply throwing rocks at Israeli tanks is interesting). But, I guess none of these characters are "terr*rists of the state" or get arrested for decades without trial like Palestinians do . Even when these characters in ST actually killed a bunch of soldiers- they're not deemed as "terr*rists". HMMMMMMMM wonder why? Also look how "realism" is randomly gone again (guess it's only important for gay suffering and k*lling off ab*sed women). It could be a coincidence. Or , at best, it's one of the other writers taking a dig at Brett Gellman. As he's the only character who gets to go through the checkpoints at ease -unlike the Hawkins citizens . Similar to how israelies are able to go through military checkpoints in occupied Palestine with ease unlike their Palestinian counterparts) .
And if not, they're using the plight of Palestinian trauma as window dressing for their show (or even worse mocking the people who wanted to boycott s5 due to their 2 actors' comments against Palestine).
In s3, they essentially do cold-war propaganda (common in the 80s) within the show by making the communist soviets cartoonishly evil. All while Erica is used as a conservative mouth piece: who praises American Capitalism . And she is described as a genius "political junkie" (after she claims America is a meritocracy and people get payed based on their contributions to society... ok, respectfully don't agree with that take tbh).
Ignore the fact that at this exact same time Regan as president popularized "trickle down economics" (otherwise known as Regeanomics) : which is the cause of most of our economic issues today . He also cut & reduced funding for many of our social-programs by running on a campaign that used a racist dog whistle against black women .
So yeah, maybe i'm too sensitive and overthinking it (unlike the Duffers, apparently). But having the (possibly) white conservative writers make her say this whole spiel : feels very icky, and a bit tone death given the political climate at that time. Jonathan tbf does an "anti-capitalist" movie in the finale. But it rings hollow, when the stranger things creators are seemingly very pro-capitalist. Down to the obnoxious product placements, the merch, spin off shows/books/comics/food etc. The Duffer Brothers (after the finale) even started offering a writing class of all things, which is only available through a subscription platform (again cause they can never have enough money apparently). They think : THEY deserve all that money for THEIR contribution to society (don't blow up their ego more, and let them take your money , while looking down on you)!!!!
The Duffers claim itâs a show for outcasts but at the end of the day- itâs just a show for nerdy white Incels or men .
It has a veneer of progressiveness, but it isnât in actuality. They claim the show is against "conformity" but ironically falls into many of the conformist tropes and writing conventions that have been critiqued as harmful for decades. It uses marginalized people and women to get browning points. But, It's not progressive at it's core (it's regressive)! It didn't challenge many of the out-dated (and harmful) tropes we don't want to see in media today. IF ANYTHING THEY BROUGHT BACK MANY PROBLEMATIC TROPES.
You could also argue the show is subtle & insidious : historical revisionism.
A few years ago Iâd give them more credit with the symbolism , parallels, music choices, set design, foreshadowing, etc (which usually amounted to nothing). I thought some of the problematic writing was intentional subtext and symbolism for a greater reveal (or that most of these tropes would later be subverted or explained as problematic in the narrative ) . But that finale along with all the plot holes, and poor writing choices, made me question the entire series as a whole. To be fair a lot of redeeming aspects of the show may have been attributable to less famous writers of the show, directors/producers, set designers, music composers, etc . Some of the highest rated episodes weren't written by the Duffers (or had other writers reeling in the Duffers problematic elements). The s5 writer's strike probably didn't help. And midway through s5 they got rid of one of their female writers /co executive producers (Kate Tefry) who was involved since s1 .Instead of helping finish s5, she worked on the spin-off play instead (which could explain the nose dive s5 took ):
I also do sort of believe in divorce gate: the conspiracy theory about Leigh Janiak (Ross' ex wife) maybe being a ghost writer. She's a screenwriter and director (who has worked on Ross' other projects).The divorce filing occurred after part 1. Leigh also made the 'fear street trilogy': it was diverse, set in the 90s, had a straight bait instead of a queer-bait, and had the main character save her gf from possession/death. Love was the cure. It also had a bunch of st easterggs down to a bleeding nostril to allude to the supernatural, and staring 3 actresses from ST. Maya hawke's character even worked at a video store. Leigh complained that "queer subtext is not the same as real representation" and that she despised when writers would do queer subtext but never follow through (explaining it was one of the reasons she made fear street). hmm. The duffers were also sued for allegedly stealing others' work twice (so I would not be surprised if he stole creative work or ideas from his wife too). The first lawsuit, filed by filmmaker Charlie Kessler in 2018, claimed the Duffers stole his idea from his 2012 short film Montauk (after he pitched it to them at the Tribeca Film Festival in 2014).The second lawsuit, filed in 2020 by Irish Rover Entertainment, alleged that the show was based on an unpublished script called Totem written by Jeffrey Kennedy, with similarities in plot, characters, and concept art. This lawsuit was settled out of court in 2023.
Regardless of whether those rumors are true . We should not reward or normalize the Duffers writing in Hollywood : they do harmful/regressive tropes and messaging, use easterggs/call backs that have no deeper meaning, and can't complete a story without many plot holes and ret-cons. They even normalized short seasons which take much longer to make : when shows shortly before st's initial airing had 25+ (45 minute) episodes. That were created in less time with similar or better quality. That's not even getting into all the rumors/ allegations of the Duffers mistreating their staff...
I know some may disagree with my takes here , but I just wanted to get my grievances out so I never have to think of this awful series again.*Feel free to add to this list of issues in reblogs or comments.
The Most Obvious, but Overlooked Evidence Supporting Conformitygate
Something that just never added up to me, was the productionâs absolute fumble in securing the shoot for the epilogue scene with Hopper and Mike at the memorial in front of the library.
It wasnât just a few blurry pap photos like most of the leaks we got for s5, but instead pictures and videos taken in 4k from multiple angles. We got the entire location and all the props telling us the timeframe that the scene would be set (May 1989), and even some of the pictures included the Duffers themselves. That is simply unheard of. When that shit dropped, EVERYONE active online in the fandom was like Oh⊠El dies??
A year before the season even released, we had the biggest plot-twist of the series finale spoiled, with no attempts from the production to quell it in comparison to how they treated all of the other leaks that got out. It became so mainstream that it was undoubtedly the most theorized ending across all platforms, with fans saying that they thought either El was dying or she would fake her death.
And so the question is, why?
They could have chosen any other way to give Hopper and Mike a scene where they talk about him accepting and moving on from Elâs death. Because just from looking at those shots, seeing Mike and Hopper both looking sad, anyone with a working braincell could see what was coming from a mile away. Why did it have to be on-location in public, where it would be very risky from a security standpoint? A lot of the decisions they make for where and how to shoot scenes based on their level of secrecy puts into consideration the very possibility of onlookers unaffiliated with the production being present. I mean, we didnât see Sadie or Winona that entire year, outside of maybe one leak that was blurry and far away. I do think that if they didnât want us to see this, we wouldnât have gotten what we did.
As the season got closer and promotion started, the Duffers were asked outright in an interview if they filmed any fake scenes, which they were quick to deny, because Who even has the time?? But the question I think comes with the assumption that a fake scene is something that doesnât actually feature in the show. Itâs something that is only done under the guise that the cameras are rolling, when really the whole set-up is a ruse, to make fans think that it will feature in the show, only for it to not end up in the final-cut at all, hence fake.
What makes this all the more hilarious is the Duffers making a point to come on national television and say that no fans have predicted the ending yet, which is just patently false and easy to prove wrong. This was undeniably the most speculated ending for the show. It wasnât a twist. It didnât come out of left field at all. Hell, even people that didnât see the leak were capable of predicting it.
But what if the lack of security for this sequence wasnât an instance of incompetence? What if it was done that way by design? Because I cannot for the life of me understand in what world it makes sense for the most highly anticipated show in the last 10 years to just not simply up their security for a top secret finale shoot?
the GA talking about conformitygate is funny to me because to them itâs all about âoh the props changed colorsâ but to us itâs âmike wheeler is a gay man doomed for eternity and this is not a fate he deservesâ
Reading the comments on Netflixâs social media pages is hell. Itâs absurd how many people miss that the real issue isnât whether Mike could realistically reciprocate Willâs feelings, but rather the quality of the writing itself. The story clearly exploits and romanticizes Willâs pain. For at least a couple of seasons, it emphasizes his romantic longing and encourages the audience to invest in it. Yet, all that suffering and tension are ultimately dismissed and never properly acknowledged or respected. While Willâs pain remains unresolved, the heterosexual couple is given a serious, tragic moment framed as meaningful, despite being rooted in avoidance and misunderstanding.
So this isnât a question of realism; rather, it is about writing that appropriates queer pain to enrich the narrative but ultimately discards it without any payoff. I wish it received better acknowledgment in mainstream media.
so they paid enough attention to give mini Will the moles on his neck even though Noah hasnât had those moles since 2021, but they somehow forgot to give Karen her scars in her final scene?
The way that they said we'd learn why Will was taken and the answer just being that Henry was taken as a kid and he sees kids as being weak.
And they ended up, indeed, portraying him as weak. He wasn't able to be strong and fight back until he got over his love for Mike, which was being portrayed as a weakness that was holding him back.
There was never anything special about Will. He was just someone easy to break because of his developing gay identity.
Why writers need to tell a story, but also let their story tell itself: HIMYM vs. Stranger Things
I was going to make a post a long time ago about how Stranger Things couldnât end with milkvan endgame even though it was likely the intention in season 1 using How I Met Your Mother as an already executed example, but I never got the energy to.
Because Stranger Things has now made the same mistake as HIMYM, I now want to explain why the ending of ST, in terms of several character arcs and not just Byler, didnât make sense in the end, and the lesson writers should learn from these shows. This post will contain major spoilers for HIMYM, so only continue if youâve seen it or donât mind spoilers.
So if you know anything about HIMYM, you probably know it has one of the most hated TV show endings of all time. If you donât know much about the show, itâs essentially about Ted, the main character, in his journey to find the love of his life. At the start of the show, Ted meets Robin and itâs immediately assumed that this is who he is going to end up with. He spends the first season and much of the rest of the show pursuing a relationship with Robin, and at the very end of the show, they end up together. So why is it one of the most hated TV show endings of all time? Because while they were initially intended to end up together, this ending no longer suited the story and characters after the narrative choices that were made over the course of the show.
At the beginning of HIMYM, Ted sees Robin for the first time, and immediately starts to think she might be the one. She joins Tedâs friend group, and they finally end up together by the end of the season. At this point, everyone is rooting for them! Theyâre a good couple, and Ted finally gets to be with the person heâs been chasing after.
Thatâs the peak of their relationship.
After that, things go downhill. Robin and Ted are shown to want different things. Because of their differences that eventually make them incompatible, they eventually break up.
Tedâs feelings for Robin never truly go away, and are a focal point throughout the show. While viewers may still have been rooting for Robin and Ted to reunite when they break up, things start to change when Tedâs friend Barney gets thrown into the mix.
Barneyâs whole identity revolves around self-interest and hedonism: he tries to sleep with as many women as possible, treating them like objects and taking advantage of them, and always throwing others under the bus to avoid negative consequences or feelings. Despite being comedic relief, he seems almost heartless in his treatment of others, always prioritizing himself. However, by season 3, he starts to develop feelings for Robin, and by the end of season 3, he falls in love with her.
Over the course of the show, two things continue to happen: first, Ted and Robin continue to demonstrate how incompatible they are. Ted wants kids, Robin hates them. Ted wants to settle down and have a family, Robin wants to travel the world. And continuously, time and time again, Robin makes it clear that she does not love Ted.
Second, Barney continues to fall deeper in love with Robin. Not only is this the first person Barney is shown to prioritize over himself, but his whole character changes because of her. He stops going after other women despite that being at the core of his character, he makes a genuine effort to be honest with Robin and treat her the way she deserves, and he makes huge sacrifices in order to prove to her that she is worth giving up every selfish desire that made him who he was for so many seasons. He becomes a more loving, vulnerable, and devoted person, and eventually, they get married.
In the last two episodes, we fast forward and find out that Robin and Barney got divorced, the mother of Tedâs kids passed away, and Ted ends up with Robin. This ending is so widely hated because the show continuously gave you reasons to stop rooting for Ted and Robin. While they were likeable at first, it eventually becomes clear that they are miserable when they are together and that they are incompatible. At the same time, Barney has the strongest character development of anyone on this show because of Robin, and the final choice to break them up reverts him back to who he was at the beginning, undoing his entire arc. While the writing choices may have initially been set up to result in a plot twist, those choices also changed the direction the story was heading in. By choosing to stick with the ending they originally planned, they ruined the story as the trajectory the narrative took over the course of the show made it so that this ending was no longer a plausible option.
This is the same mistake that Stranger Things made. Janeâs sacrifice wouldâve made sense at the end of season 1. She escaped captivity, was finally able to use her powers for good and for her own reasons, and can now live on in her friendâs minds as a reminder of magic and what it means to fight for good in the face of danger. By season 5, however, Jane is a fully fleshed out person who has learned what it is like to have a family, to have people treat her like a real person, and to learn what it is like to be loved. She has been idolized and weaponized, and she then starts to learn how it feels to be herself, to discover who she is outside of her powers, and to learn that she matters outside of the people who have controlled her. She repeatedly is poked, prodded, tortured, used, and she becomes her friendsâ shiny weapon, putting herself on the front lines every single season to protect her friends. For a character who has been abused and hunted continuously, who never gets a chance to have a normal life because of the usefulness of her powers, and always has to be at the center of every battle, bearing the brunt of the damage because she is the only one who can, sacrifice is no longer an option. When her character arc becomes about finding people who value her for who she is and deserving to have her own shot at a normal life, sacrifice or ending up alone is no longer an option.
Milkvan wouldâve made sense at the end of season 1. Mike and Jane find comfort in each other during what is likely the scariest time of both of their lives, Mike providing Jane real care and Jane providing Mike protection. However, Mike and Jane get together and are shown to continuously misunderstand each other. Their chemistry disappears, they are unable to be fully themselves around each other, and their relationship begins to hinder the character trajectory of the other character. Meanwhile, Mike is shown to only be comfortable being vulnerable with Will. He is shown to understand him better than anyone else. When he starts performing around others, he only lets his guard down with Will. While Mike and Jane are shown to be incompatible, Mike and Will are shown to develop arguably the most authentic friendship in the show (sound like Robin, Ted, and Barney?). And in the midst of Mike and Jane being written as incompatible, Will is shown to be in love with Mike. By season 5, milkvan is no longer an option. Mike has become the thing that gives Will âthe courage to fight on,â and Will then becomes one of the most important people needed to fight Vecna. Mike is the heart because of Willâs feelings. Mike and Janeâs relationship is now built on a lie, and you are made to feel bad for Will during Mikeâs attempt to fix his relationship with Jane. Janeâs story is motivated by breaking free from the people who idolize her, such as Mike. It is clear that Mike makes Will stronger, Will makes Mike brave, and Jane is hindered by her relationship with Mike. Milkvan is no longer an option.
Willâs self-acceptance arc wouldâve worked early on. He couldâve had a small crush, realized he was more vulnerable to Vecna when he put his self-worth in someone else, and learned to find strength within himself. By season 5, Will is shown to be a romantic. Will is in love with Mike, which has been built up for 4 seasons. Will is continuously shown to still love Mike even after he accepts himself, and that self-acceptance is motivated in part by his love for Mike. Willâs arc ending at self-acceptance is no longer an option.
The point is, writers may write stories with a specific ending in mind. And sometimes, that works out perfectly! But sometimes, as the story progresses, it begins to write itself, and the trajectories that each character are heading in may render the initial plan moot. Both of these shows are examples of the disservice that can be done to a story if you try to force it into what it was âalways meant to be.â Sometimes, writers need to listen to the story theyâre writing and learn when to let it lead the way.
as someone with a ba hons degree in film and television, who has spent years studying narrative architecture, character economy, and the ethics of representation, i will never forgive the stranger things team for what they did with wills love for mike. they didnât just sideline it. they didnât just underplay it. they instrumentalised it. they turned a queer characterâs most vulnerable emotional truth into a narrative device designed to inflate a heterosexual ship that has never had the thematic scaffolding, emotional reciprocity, or even basic chemistry to carry that weight.
and the thing is, this isnât just weak storytelling. this is the kind of choice that feels like villain narrative engineering, the deliberate decision to undermine a queer kidâs longing, trauma, and emotional growth, not to honour it, but to redirect it. to pass it off into a dynamic that is, at best, narratively stagnant and, at worst, actively toxic. itâs the kind of move that betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what willâs arc represents, what queer subtext means in genre television, and what audiences, especially queer audiences, actually connect to.
it makes me sick because itâs not incidental. itâs structural. itâs baked into the blocking, the framing, the editing, the emotional beats. itâs the choice to let willâs love be the emotional engine of the seasons while refusing to let him be the emotional destination. and from a craft perspective, from someone who has studied how television uses pov, subtext, and emotional stakes, itâs infuriating to watch a show with this much cultural power treat a queer storyline as expendable fuel for a bland, heteronormative narrative that has already exhausted its narrative purpose.
iâm not over it. iâm not forgiving it. and honestly, the show will never earn forgiveness.
okay I'll take the loss but why does it feel like they actually planned for byler to happen in season 5 but then it got scrapped (for whatever reason) and that's why they
- didn't know what to do with Mike and Will most of the time, especially in vol2
- had Mike be completely out of character during vol2 and the finale
- did not properly address Will coming out and Mike learning about his feelings
- completely got rid of the painting storyline even though they put so much effort into it
- had quotes and merch that do not make sense in retrospect ("Let's make a new party you and I", "for Will" mix tape, that quote from November 6th 1983, etc.)
- had that weird dynamic between El and Mike throughout vol2
- had that weird Mike and El interaction shoved down our throats before she sacrificed herself
- had so many incosistencies with previous seasons and with the promo as byler not happening affected Will's and Mike's and Henry's storyline
snowghoul
annaxmalina
discoholicmusic
andulkaphoto
ellievsbear
