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@yeahiwasintheshit I think I can explain this in a way that isn't too fanservicey.
I think first off, let's establish the number one reason why "Characters didn't do that" is for the convenience of the plot. If he demanded the dragon, it would lead to a situation where Daemon would hop on his dragon and "light the way" for the Hightower host, effectively ending the green threat (and naturally creating more problems than anyone could possibly imagine in your typical Daemon way). So the thing happened so the other things could happen.
You might see that as a bit of lazy storywriting, and HOTD hasn't been immune from the occasional... errors. But I think it makes sense within story.
We can all agree that Daemon was looking for a fight. He was "ordered" by Rhaenyra to accept Hightower fealty, but those weren't the words and action of someone who wants peace. He wanted to provoke Ormund into a Field of Fire 2 situation. I don't think he had a concrete plan for surrender. He had more of a plan to fuck with him, which is why he waited until Ormund's back was turned to demand Daeron.
We can also attribute this to Daemon's tendency to think he's the smartest guy in the room despite multiple examples of Otto Hightower running circles around him.
Ormund Hightower broke his oath. Can't be understated. I know everybody goes out of their way and breaks their back fucking each other over, but this is different. He bent the knee. He promised to take his forces back to Oldtown. It's like Guest Rights and Kinslaying, it's one of the big no no's in this universe (And should be a bigger thing in ours). By the rules of standard conduct, Daemon didn't need to examine things further.
You know what's funny... This thing is unprecedented. I don't think there has been a "peaceful" surrender of a dragon rider in this way in modern Westerosi history. Daemon doesn't have an army at his back, just Ulf and Hugh, so there's no way of chaining this wild animal up and wheeling him back to KL. And I'd like to see who tries to do that, because...
Dragons are uncontrollable, as we've seen. Even Daemon had trouble with Caraxes the other day. Plus, Dragons can fly away or attack. It's like accepting his surrender and asking him to hop onto his 5-35 to fly peacefully to his execution. Daeron might agree to this, but will his dragon?
All of this leads to, I think, the most important point. Daemon didn't NEED Daeron's dragon. It was more important to capture a rival claimant to the Iron Throne. As far as he knows, a dragon without a dragon rider is fucking useless to the green's army. Tessarion isn't exactly the second coming of Balerion the Black Dread, he just started to take flight. Has no real battle experience. So even if they took real Daeron back, put his fucking head on a spike, Tessarion would still have to bond to a new dragonrider. And you saw how hard that was for the Blacks. And the blacks live in a region with no shortage of Targaryen bastards.
Does that work? I think it does. In Daemon's mind, all he's leaving the Greens with is a giant burden that eats a fucking ton and would be fucking uncontrollable without his bonded rider. I think there's an idea of asking for the dragon back once they've secured the throne. His biggest problem was not recognizing Tessarion's double take when fake Daeron approached it. Dragon was like "Who the fuck is you?"
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@stenka-razin I love the Living Daylights! It's just a bunch of things happening until you meet the ultimate bond villain... Joe Don Baker! Joe Don Baker and his army of toys. I love the Shady Russian double agent. First time you see that guy you're like "Just kill em right now JB save yourself some trouble." Also Bond helping our brave Mujahadeen fighters. Rambo gets shit for that, meanwhile 007 gets away with it because most people don't like the Living Daylights enough to get to that part.
Timothy Dalton was a good bond. He got motherfucked by timing. I've said this before, but Dalton walked so Craig could run.
The Living Daylights, besides having an incredible Cold Open, an incredible Debut Cold Open, also has one of my favorite Bond Post Mortem lines. Assistant bad guy is hanging out of an airplane by his shoestrings. Bond takes out a knife and like... casually cuts the guys shoestrings while dude man begs for his life. Guy falls to his death. Bond gets back to the cockpit, and Maryam D'Abo asks him, "what happened to that dude?" And Bond says "HE GOT THE BOOT."
It's so blunt and stupid I'm in awe! Like... it doesn't even make sense. He didn't get the boot! His foot fell off, and he fell to his death shoeless! I wish he like took a second to acknowledge that it doesn't make sense and then got back to deactivating the bomb. Like "not my best work, look we got 48 seconds."
I love that line! And then it doesn't even a get a second to breathe because they're about to fly into a fucking mountain.
It really does play like a Moore film with it's non stop change of focus.
I'll also say that Licence to Kill is not my favorite. It's a great premise, but I feel like they don't do enough with BOND GOES ROGUE as a premise. Like he still gets gizmos from Q and everything. Dalton's still solid though.
I can def see the parallel between Dalton and Early Craig. Rougher, greener sorts of Bond, which serves the character well.
I love License to Kill, and I'm fine that it doesn't go FULL Bond goes Rogue. I actually really like the Ill fated Bromance between Sanchez and 007. Like Sanchez seems like a decent dude as far as Bond villains who torture people to death go? He even gets a good Post Mortem line. "What about the money?" "Launder it."
LTK though is like... the movie Dalton wanted to make. Not like he directed it or anything but he stated he wanted to take Bond to its depressed alcoholic roots. I think it would've been cool to see it taken to its limits, but now that we've seen it with Craig... I wouldn't mind it going back to slightly goofier shit. The hard stuff is great when it's good (Casino Royale) and awful when its bad (Quantum of Solace). WHere as a bad Roger Moore movie is still worth it for the LOLs.
Ok, this is a take that I think everyone will hate, but here we go.
I think the first half of Die Another Day does the LTK thing better than LTK. Like everything before John Cleese gives him an invisible car. It's Bond on his own, using nothing but his wits and charm to figure out who burned him on his North Korea mission. It's absolutely ridiculous that a movie most known for him CGI parasailing on missile debris and a North Korean space laser is so different in its first hour.
Anyway, largely agree on Craig. I give a pass to Quantum (if you have just watched Casino Royale it's a decent follow up... if you haven't it's borderline incomprehensible) but Spectre is god awful. And because it's self serious and wants you to think its important you have full rain to utterly crucifying it for sucking. But like, Octopussy doesn't make sense? It's a movie called Octopussy, dude.
I DON'T GIVE CREDIT FOR INCOMPLETE WORK. SEE THE SYLLABUS. Yeah that first part was great. Sometimes the appetizer is better than the main course. Die Another Day was eating Honey Chipotle Wings and following it up with a Shit salad.
Quantum of Solace was a miserable film. I actually let SPectre off the hook because I kind of tracked it early, BECAUSE of QOS. I felt like doing a direct sequel to Casino Royale made sense, but it was hardly a sequel and more like additional features. I'm willing to do continuity in Bond films but I think it's important they stand on their own. QOS didn't. Didn't even like close the Vesper Lynd story completely. It just felt so pointless.
sorry but the hightowers are being particularly cunty this season
You know what, as a guy who loves the Reach houses and the Hightowers in particular, I was extremely worried that the show was going to turn them into Rancho Cucamonga Lannisters. But they're UNIQUELY fucked up. It is *perfect.*
Loved the additional detail that Otto sent a bunch of letters to Ormund but Ormund never sent any back. Like you can't erase the taint of being a second son ever.
Loved Alicent admitting "Look Rhaenyra, I think we can all agree I'm not the greatest mom, so I sent my youngest son to Bel Air to hang out with Fundamentalist/Supremacist Uncle Phil." Everybody this season is having moments of therapy breakthroughs after they started a violent civil war.
Ormund AND Daeron are revelations. They've been in the show a total of 35 minutes, and it feels like they've been around forever. When Daeron told that page boy to GET OUT, it spoke volumes. Added points for Bold Jon Roxton picking up the chair after Ormund's freakout. Guys, I've worked with a guy like this and I was the one picking up the chair. Somebody got to.
I like how we're digging into the fact that everybody HATES the Targaryens, especially in the Reach.
The funniest thing about the Hightower exceptionalism thing is that the going rumor for a month of sundays is that House Hightower was either founded by pirates or dragonlords. The base of the Hightower, the lighthouse seat they live in, is forged with fused black stone. Whenever you hear "Black Stone" referred to in ASOIAF expanded universe it's some real what the fuck shit. A lot of times that Black Stone was forged by dragon fire. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
@stenka-razin I love the Living Daylights! It's just a bunch of things happening until you meet the ultimate bond villain... Joe Don Baker! Joe Don Baker and his army of toys. I love the Shady Russian double agent. First time you see that guy you're like "Just kill em right now JB save yourself some trouble." Also Bond helping our brave Mujahadeen fighters. Rambo gets shit for that, meanwhile 007 gets away with it because most people don't like the Living Daylights enough to get to that part.
Timothy Dalton was a good bond. He got motherfucked by timing. I've said this before, but Dalton walked so Craig could run.
The Living Daylights, besides having an incredible Cold Open, an incredible Debut Cold Open, also has one of my favorite Bond Post Mortem lines. Assistant bad guy is hanging out of an airplane by his shoestrings. Bond takes out a knife and like... casually cuts the guys shoestrings while dude man begs for his life. Guy falls to his death. Bond gets back to the cockpit, and Maryam D'Abo asks him, "what happened to that dude?" And Bond says "HE GOT THE BOOT."
It's so blunt and stupid I'm in awe! Like... it doesn't even make sense. He didn't get the boot! His foot fell off, and he fell to his death shoeless! I wish he like took a second to acknowledge that it doesn't make sense and then got back to deactivating the bomb. Like "not my best work, look we got 48 seconds."
I love that line! And then it doesn't even a get a second to breathe because they're about to fly into a fucking mountain.
It really does play like a Moore film with it's non stop change of focus.
I'll also say that Licence to Kill is not my favorite. It's a great premise, but I feel like they don't do enough with BOND GOES ROGUE as a premise. Like he still gets gizmos from Q and everything. Dalton's still solid though.
I can def see the parallel between Dalton and Early Craig. Rougher, greener sorts of Bond, which serves the character well.
I love License to Kill, and I'm fine that it doesn't go FULL Bond goes Rogue. I actually really like the Ill fated Bromance between Sanchez and 007. Like Sanchez seems like a decent dude as far as Bond villains who torture people to death go? He even gets a good Post Mortem line. "What about the money?" "Launder it."
LTK though is like... the movie Dalton wanted to make. Not like he directed it or anything but he stated he wanted to take Bond to its depressed alcoholic roots. I think it would've been cool to see it taken to its limits, but now that we've seen it with Craig... I wouldn't mind it going back to slightly goofier shit. The hard stuff is great when it's good (Casino Royale) and awful when its bad (Quantum of Solace). WHere as a bad Roger Moore movie is still worth it for the LOLs.
Road to Revenge (John De Hart, 1993)
OK, CORRECTION. The Assistant Bond Villain, Necros, was holding on to BONDS boot. And Bond cut his own shoestrings, causing the boot and Necros to fall screaming. He is holding onto the boot as he takes the Hard Way to Kabul. I was mistaken, it's actually a work of inspired genius.
"He got the boot" was also added in post production, is something else I'm finding. I bet all Timothy's shakespearean ass had to be forced at gunpoint to say it.
OK, CORRECTION. The Assistant Bond Villain, Necros, was holding on to BONDS boot. And Bond cut his own shoestrings, causing the boot and Necros to fall screaming. He is holding onto the boot as he takes the Hard Way to Kabul. I was mistaken, it's actually a work of inspired genius.
Billy Zane... Good actor or...
@yeahiwasintheshit I'd think he'd make a fine Kojack, or at least fine enough for two seasons. "Who loves you baby... you guessed it, Billy Zane" *puts lollipop in mouth.*
I think I always considered BZ kind of bad, but I'm not sure. He is in a LOT of good movies? Titanic, orlando, the previously mentioned Dead Calm. And you know what? I liked that The Phantom movie. Underrated pulp comic book movie. Watch that on a double bill with The Shadow. But man he just looks so sleepy in all of those movies. It's wild. I think I'd need to see him personally deliver 5 Sonnets from memory before I could say if he can be in my fucking hollywood blockbuster film.
Now Lisa Zane, his older sister? Five Words. Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare.
I assure you, nobody laughed harder in the movie theater than I when Zoolander said "Stay out of this Billy Zane!"
Billy Zane... Good actor or...
@yeahiwasintheshit I'd think he'd make a fine Kojack, or at least fine enough for two seasons. "Who loves you baby... you guessed it, Billy Zane" *puts lollipop in mouth.*
I think I always considered BZ kind of bad, but I'm not sure. He is in a LOT of good movies? Titanic, orlando, the previously mentioned Dead Calm. And you know what? I liked that The Phantom movie. Underrated pulp comic book movie. Watch that on a double bill with The Shadow. But man he just looks so sleepy in all of those movies. It's wild. I think I'd need to see him personally deliver 5 Sonnets from memory before I could say if he can be in my fucking hollywood blockbuster film.
Now Lisa Zane, his older sister? Five Words. Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare.
@stenka-razin I love the Living Daylights! It's just a bunch of things happening until you meet the ultimate bond villain... Joe Don Baker! Joe Don Baker and his army of toys. I love the Shady Russian double agent. First time you see that guy you're like "Just kill em right now JB save yourself some trouble." Also Bond helping our brave Mujahadeen fighters. Rambo gets shit for that, meanwhile 007 gets away with it because most people don't like the Living Daylights enough to get to that part.
Timothy Dalton was a good bond. He got motherfucked by timing. I've said this before, but Dalton walked so Craig could run.
The Living Daylights, besides having an incredible Cold Open, an incredible Debut Cold Open, also has one of my favorite Bond Post Mortem lines. Assistant bad guy is hanging out of an airplane by his shoestrings. Bond takes out a knife and like... casually cuts the guys shoestrings while dude man begs for his life. Guy falls to his death. Bond gets back to the cockpit, and Maryam D'Abo asks him, "what happened to that dude?" And Bond says "HE GOT THE BOOT."
It's so blunt and stupid I'm in awe! Like... it doesn't even make sense. He didn't get the boot! His foot fell off, and he fell to his death shoeless! I wish he like took a second to acknowledge that it doesn't make sense and then got back to deactivating the bomb. Like "not my best work, look we got 48 seconds."
Billy Zane... Good actor or...
hotd is what happens when your favorite books are feastdance but those books got adapted by clowns so you accept technically adapting the history book so you can spiritually adapt feast dance because your eyes glaze over every time you read the textbook. i say this neutrally and without judgment and even with appreciation
grafting the themes of feastdance onto fire and blood to create frankenstein's show is genuinely inspired i will always admire them for sweinging for the fences so hard