something i really love about the way skam handles isak's internalized homophobia is that no one takes his shit. like, yes, they are patient with him to come to terms with it on his own terms but the moment he lashes out in a way that's just homophobic, people will tell him off for it. jonas tells him off for making fun of a guy for being gay and eskild tells him off for mocking gay pride, and thinking himself above it. like, everyone is aware that this is hard for him and no one tries to undermine that but at the same time no one is willing to play his game. and that's just, such a good way to handle this topic.
“It wasn't just the format of the series that was new - with clips posted in real time and characters with their own Instagram profiles. It was the content, the honesty and the deep respect for the lives and struggles of young people that probably made the series so powerful. SKAM was never really a series that shouted very loudly. It almost whispered, and somehow that was enough.”
Whether you believe in Allah, or Jesus or The theory of Evolution or Parallel universes -There’s only one thing we all now for certain. That life is now.
Henrik Holm is back again! And Julie talks O Helga Natt. Listen on NRK Radio and read along here:
Torkil Risan (host): In this episode we’ll take on the last three episodes of Skam season 3, Even and Isak’s season.
(Skip to 02:22)
TR: The scene at Sagene church with Nils Bech singing, Isak running out of the church to find Even, is just not any scene to Julie Andem.
JA: All of season 3 is built around the O Helga Natt scene. I remember working on season 1 and I heard O Helga Natt as I was trying to find music for a scene and I saw Isak running through the streets for one reason or another.
TR: Was it Nils Bech’s version you heard?
JA: No, we ordered O Helga Natt from Nils Bech, so that was another O Helga Natt and as I recall it I got those images in my head of Isak running through the streets. Not why he ran. That’s the best example of music because it became the master scene that all of season 3 builds up to.
(skip to 08:20)
(Sound bite from the show, Even and Isak at the hotel)
TR: What’s it like listening to this now?
HH: It’s a bit uncomfortable. As the scene should be. You notice that Isak is losing his understanding of Even. Who is he really in a hotel room with? But it’s also so positive, so you don’t really know what to think.
TR: During the night Isak wakes up to Even running out naked to Grønland to buy food at McDonald’s. Isak trying to follow but when he gets to the street he can’t find him. He doesn’t understand what’s happening.
(skip to 11:00)
TR: For Henrik Holm, this was a dimension of his character that meant more work.
HH: I had to do loads of research to understand what living with bipolar disorder is like. And because of that I had to dig deep into my range of feelings, both highs and lows. The most important part for me was that the character was believable, that you were part of the journey. Because if I had delivered the lines too clearly, they might not have hit home. So it was a very fine line to thread, that was difficult for me to understand because I don’t have any previous experiences of that. So you had to understand that those who struggle with bipolar disorder have a bigger range of emotions and have the ability to go both lower and higher. So I had to push those limits as much as possible. But I remember that I didn’t have the tools to get out of it.
TR: And what does that say?
HH: That’s the problematic thing in the beggining of an acting career, when you have the tools to get into a feeling. Acting is largely about tricking yourself. And here I had to trick myself that I was depressed, the tempo was down here. So I put a lot of time to get into it. But to get out of it was the challenge, because I didn’t have those tools.
TR: Did you get scared that you were getting depressed for reals?
HH: yeah, yeah.
TR: That was your experience?
HH: To a high degree. The filming was a rollercoaster. Because we had such little time, so you had to throw yourself from one thing to the other.
TR: It’s understandable this was a tough role for a young actor. Skam’s producer, now Head of Drama at NRK, Marianne Furuvold, says that this was something they were aware of.
MF: It was something we focused on a lot during production. Everyone in the cast was offered help from a therapist. And we worked closely with the actors and their families, we were always available to them. And they also got help from the communications and PR department at NRK. Because we wanted to take care of them in such a demanding and special situation that we were all thrown into.
TR: It might have been tough to play Even. But to Julie Andem it was important that Isak got someone to challenge him in his love story.
JA: When I was creating a love interest to Isak, I thought what is it- Isak is a character that’s too cool for school. He’s cooler than everyone. What will shake him? It has to be a character he doesn’t understand, that moves in many directions, preferably a bit irrational, that you can’t quite catch. And with that in mind I was like what characters are like that? Is it drug issues? Or what issues make a character behave irrational? I did research and ended up with mental illness. And it wasn’t because it was a gay story, it was because the Isak character, to lose his footing, needed someone irrational to challenge him to fall in love.
(skip to 21:55)
TR: This is the scene (Isak meeting Even after running from church) that Julie has built the season around. And she of course knew from the start that Even would survive.
JA: I remember refusing to answer that. There were lots of questions about it but I didn’t have to answer to keep it open. Romeo and Juliet is an arch love story and when I set it up, with Isak watching Romeo and Juliet and the longing, the feeling that that he can never have that kind of love because he’s different. And I wanted to see if it was possible to make the audience envious of Isak and Even’s love story, like he was of Romeo and Juliet. Can you make a gay love story strong enough that the audience wants to be 16 and gay. Both because of Romeo and Juliet’s set up but also there’s always that fear that it can’t happen and that it will end and that makes the power of the love story stronger. And you’re making an irrational character with a mental illness and you see that here’s a match, it makes the picture whole. You have an important role as a story teller to not just give people hope, you must find a way to make the hope stay. But telling the truth is also important. And sometimes that balance is harder than other times. Maybe there isn’t a lot of hope in the truth. But the most important part with Isak and Even was to show that epic love doesn’t belong to man and woman. So there has to be an epic love story there and it maybe could have ended with death, but I don’t think the hope.. it wouldn’t have been great.
TR: But with all the references to death, especially the references to Romeo and Juliet, the audience got worried. Especially after Even disappear naked in the night. It even made the crew suffer.
Mari Magnus: When the engagement is that big, as it was in all seasons but particularly season 3, there’s serious topics in all the season, but especially in that season, there are a lot of feelings in the comment section. And it’s very challenging for the audience to tolarate the time it takes for Isak to lock himself in his room until he contacts Even. And we might be wondering “Is Even even alive?”. It wasn’t.. but that’s how the audience was reading it. And people write “I can’t sleep until I know Even’s well” and I know it will take 48h until you get confirmation. I found it difficult to deal with those things that at the time felt like life or death. And we couldn’t ruin it. But you get affected and you want to just say “it’ll be alright”. But you can’t. And the audience doesn’t want that really either, they want the experience. But at one point the comment section got so intense that Julie put a small hint on her personal instagram account. A picture of Isak and Even in Even’s room where he has a small paper clipping that says Alt er love. And the audience picked up on that and Alt er love became a thing. And that was like a “it’ll be alright” thing.
(skip to 30:22)
TR: When the season ends, something begins for Henrik Holm. Skam has gotten world famous with this season and that has affected his life ever since.
HH: The response was huge, largely because there haven't been roles like that on tv. It’s been ten years of a massive response I never imagined when we were filming, because I didn’t know the width of it. It became a responsibility I wasn’t entirely prepared for. I didn’t know there were that many people that felt so alone in their illness. And to them became a light in the dark, or Even was a light in the dark and to them I was Even. I’ve met a lot of people on this journey afterwards that have shared their stories with me and have gotten to experience being part in creating a character that has meant a lot to people. And seeing what it can mean to people has completely changed my view on acting and creating characters. That the role would be so important to people I didn’t understand when I began, but that’s what I’ve spent most time on afterwards, to talk to people who've been affected by this and see how important it has been for them. And in a way I can never understand that, but to be that person in someone’s life has been big as an actor.
TR: You went to an open casting, got a role and suddenly a few months later you have what you could call a responsibility. As you describe it you’ve become a person people tie to something that means a lot to them. And you haven’t asked for that. That wasn’t in the contract you signed.
HH: Absolutely not.
TR: You could imagine it has some negative sides to it as well?
HH: Oh yes
TR: Let’s hear
HH: It’s also a huge responsibility to carry, because these people usually don't have anyone else to turn to. And I noticed when some of us went to conventions abroad and met fans, we got fans all over the world, that really related to these characters and got tons of letters and messages. And some of them were so dark it broke my heart what a person can possibly have to go through.
TR: They write about their own experiences to you?
HH: Yes. In their world I was the only person they could open up to, because my character understood what it was like for them. I don’t want to mention the kind of terrible things I’ve had to read during these ten years, but it has been heartbreaking to see how lonely that existence can be, to put it succinctly. Because a lot of people out there don't have anyone to talk about feelings with. And when you get a character on tv that understands you, that might be the only light in the tunnel.
TR: At this point you’ve yet to turn 20.
HH: Mmm, yeah. But that’s the paradox of acting. The better you act the more they believe you really are your character. People have truly believed we were Isak and Even for a long time. And they can’t understand that I’m an actor that has stepped into character. They just want to believe in the universe so badly that that’s what they project onto me. And that’s the biggest downside with becoming famous as an actor. It was a insight I wasn’t really prepared for and a responsibility I took because I didn’t have the heart to turn my back on it. And we didn’t really have the opportunity to do that because we- if we made this show in Hollywood and it because a big success and we made lots of money of it, we would have had the possibility to lock ourselves inisde big houses and not really have any relationship with the response you get, which was extreme at that point. But we all worked on a youth salary at NRK, we didn’t make a lot of money of this so we had to work on the side. I worked at Kaffebrenneriet and we even filmed some scenes at Kaffebrenneriet, which made it “Skam Kaffebrenneriet”. So it didn’t even take two days until it was full of fans with their phones, wanting autographs and wanting a piece or another of the cake. I just had to deal with that reality and it was a lot of conflict inside of me on how I was gonna deal with the attention. Because people think actors love that attention, that we’re very extroverted and do it with a smile but it was a lot harder than that for me. I had to quit Kaffebrenneriet because of it, I had to quit the restaur- I quit so many jobs because it’s been too many hats to wear at once. But over time I’ve also learnt to appreciate it, because people greet me with love. Even if they’ve put me in a box and want me to be Even, they have a lot of love for Even and Even has meant a lot to them. Most of the ones who find me these days are Chinese. They travel from all over Europe and China, it’s often people studying in Europe that come to Norway to find me at work. I work in service now too. You would think it has calmed down after ten years, but it hasn’t. There’s so many Skam remakes in different languages.
TR: What’s it like if you check “I wonder what Even looks like in Croatian Sram”?
HH: *laughs*
TR: I imagine you do sneak a look?
HH: 100%. And it’s been so strange to see a character you’ve been part in creating, being recreated in other languages. This is the Italian Even, this is the French Even. It flatters me in many ways. I see the similarities in the characters, but at the same time the different versions have made creative choices that make them their own characters. It’s been a strange journey. We’ve been to conventions where at least up to five Even’s been gathered. It’s strange, but fun.
skam series finale really presents the concept of like. what if the guy you cheated on your ex boyfriend (who cheated on his ex girlfriend with you) with (who also cheated on his ex girlfriend with you) wanted a relationship with you (which you refuse because he is a cheating fuckboy) and then started making out with your ex boyfriend’s new girlfriend (who is your ex boyfriend’s best friend’s ex beard). which leads you to start making out with your ex boyfriend. all to the sound of Lover, Where Do You Live? by Highasakite
Skam anniversary podcast episode 6 - english translation
Carl Martin is a guest on the podcast again and discussion of season three continues, this time with focus of Eskild's famous speech to Isak. Listen here and read the translation below:
Torkil Risan (host): In this episode we’ll discuss Skam season 3, episode 5-7.
skip to 05:55
TR: Previously on the podcast we’ve heard Carl Martin Eggesbø, who played Eskild, talk about how at the same time Eskild became an important character for those watching Skam, he went through a process himself. A process that was put on double speed because of the attention he and the show got, which ended with him coming out as gay. And this scene (the pride speech) with Isak was of extra importance to Carl Martin.
CME: I knew this scene was happening, and I didn’t have the script. And Julie really wanted to hear my thoughts on the topic, if I had anything I wanted to say. She sent me a draft of what Eskild was going to say in the scene. And I found it very difficult, because I really recognised myself in what Isak is saying here. I thought Eskild was so strict with Isak. I tried to tell Julie that, that I didn’t understand why he had to be so harsh. But she thought it was important. I think some of Isak’s arguments here are very problematic, but at the same time I really understand him, because what Isak really needs is someone like him to look up to, to compare himself with. That’s what he’s missing. So he starts to attack something else, because he can’t find someone like him.
TR: You’re saying you can see yourself in Isak here? You know where he’s coming from?
CME: I’ve wondered, it’s a simple question: Why didn’t I fall in love with boys when I was a kid? Why did it feel like that wasn’t normal? That’s horrible. I feel, personally, that a part of my adolescence and teenage years has been taken from me, because I didn’t get to feel safe to love and develop the ability to love. Because I’ve been scared, felt that it was wrong and haven’t had role models. I’ve watched Disney movies and other stories that have shaped me. And what Isak needs is some “straight acting gays” that he can look up to, that can allow him to be who he is. That’s why it’s so important to have different kinds of role models. We can say we’ve come a long, long way and gotten a lot of legalisations and rights. But at the same time, to this day I think it’s very difficult to think about the fact that there’s kids growing up that don't get to learn to love, to recognize their own intuition because it’s not acknowledged that it exists. You see stories about straight love and you think that’s how it is, that’s what love is. And if you then feel some kind of feelings towards the same sex, you almost can’t tell those are feelings of love.
TR: Isak says what he says kinda because of what you’re saying here. Eskild is a bit more black and white and is quite lecturing.
Snippet from the show. Eskild: I’ll tell you one thing about the people you don’t want to be associated with, Isak. Those who have put on tights, mascara and went out and fought for their right to be who they are. Those are people who have chosen to withstand heckling, hate, that’s been assaulted and killed. And that’s not because they want to be different that badly but because they’d rather die than pretend to be someone they’re not. And that Isak, that takes courage on a level most people can’t phantom. Before you’ve taken that fight yourself, before you’ve dared to stand up for who you are, you should be very careful with putting yourself above gay pride.
CME: It makes me emotional
TR: What hits you?
CME: It’s the thought of the pain in the fight that they have had to fight, those who got us to where we are today. Who has shared their stories and taken to the streets. But also all those who haven't dared to do that. That might never in their lives have gotten the chance to truly love someone. It’s almost worse. But it’s very moving. And the graveness that comes upon Eskild in that moment is moving. Because it’s usually so much fun to play Eskild and in this scene we suddenly get to the core of who he is - to live in his own freedom. And that can be taken as a threat to many, that someone simply lives in their own freedom.
TR: Julie Andem understood that this was a scene that Carl Martin Eggesbø had to prepare a little extra for.
JA: I remember writing that speech and sending it to Carl Martin on Messenger, asking him to take a look at it. I wanted him with me in the writing process. He didn’t respond, and he usually did. So I immediately thought “oh no, I missed the mark, that it didn’t work, he didn’t like it”, like a self indulgent writer. But as I recall it I called him and he said “I like it a lot, but it had to sink in”. And I remember it was very important for him to get it right on set, that he wanted it to have force.
TR: And Carl Martin was very nervous about how the scene would be received
CME: I think I was at school, I went to The academy of theatre in Oslo, and turned phone off before class. The clip was dropped during the day if I remember correctly and I remember turning flight mode off and got a message from someone called Kaja who wrote about this scene that she was very moved by it. And I had been very worried, it was so scary to film that scene.
TR: Why?
CME: Because it felt so important. It was important to me to show, after all jokes and fun with Eskild, who the character really was deep down. And it was a relief, I really trusted her when I got that message and understood that I had struck a chord. It was important for me that the acting hit right, that’s one thing, but it was also important to me. That I worried was a sign of that. And it was also scary because I felt like Isak and I had to, or needed to, hear those words myself.
TR: It’s a scene that has been with Carl Martin since it dropped.
CME: It’s reposted a lot on social media in different contexts. But most common is when I’m out and people have gotten some Dutch courage, they come over and tell me that the scene has given them a kind of base from where they have gotten to a place where they dare to be themselves. They say they’ve come out and things like that. I get that it has meant a lot to many people. So it’s bigger than I can grasp. And I feel really grateful to Julie Andem who let me take that spot but it’s her words. I admire how wise she is and her care.
TR: This scene is a result of a method Julie swears by in her work - thorough research with the people who the themes are about.
JA: In connection to season 3 I did several in-depth interviews with different young people and discussed those themes with them.
TR: So it’s stories from people who have been stereotyped in the same way Eskild feels like he is by Isak?
JA: Yes.
TR: That’s saying something about the strength of your method, that in some cases you can just take something and refine or rewrite, but it has such power when it’s shown. So why hasn’t this been done before Skam?
JA: I’m sure it’s a combination of things. I’m not sure you had any stories of young gay love before. But also, Isak has a very strong voice, he does not want to live by the stereotype of what it means to be gay. When I did those in dept interview several young men talked about the distance they had to gays that were more over the top, fitted the stereotype. And it was important to talk about what fight lay ahead of them. That was important to have in the season. When season 2 started and we were putting together flatmates for Noora, I already knew Isak was season 3 and it was important to cast an Eskild character that later would help Isak and make him face the parts that were the most difficult, that scared him the most.
TR: So you knew already then that he would slam Isak? Because for many it would’ve been enough that a mainstream show has a queer storyline. But that you, in addition to that, put that extra twist, I think is very beautiful.
JA: Like you say, that’s the power of research. Because when you talk to the people that live these lives, all these themes come up. I couldn’t have come up with that on my own, without familiarising myself with the problems in their lives. And when I say slam on, I’m not sure I had that speech thought out, but the fact that Eskild is over the top is threatening to Isak. He’s confronted with Eskild’s effeminate ways.
Skam anniversary podcast episode 5 - english translation
Carl Martin Eggesbø is on the podcast again and talks being outed and feeling the pressure to figure out his own sexuality to be a good role model to others.
This is part 2/2 of episode 5, part 1 can be found here. Listen to it at NRK radio.
Torkil Risan (host): In this episode we’ll talk about episode 1-4 of Skam season 3, Even and Isak. The show has a new main character and the trailer hints at the themes we are getting into.
(skip to 27:45)
TR: And actor Carl Martin Eggesbø, who plays gay character Eskild, got a fair share of the attention regarding these themes.
CME: When the season came out, a lot of people asked if I was gay in real life. When I met people in the streets they would say “You’re Eskild? I like the show a lot”. And usually the second or third question was if I was gay for real. My friends and parents got the same questions. At that point, I thought I was gay, but I found it difficult to say with 100% certainty. I wasn’t totally sure. So to publicly play a character that was that sure of his own sexuality, and was very insistent in revealing others sexuality, it was an interesting contrast. And I remember a friend sent me a message, or maybe she called me, and she said “You’ve been outed”. Because she had listened to the podcast Harm & Hegseth, where they had discussed who in the show was actually gay or not. And Morten Hegseth says “Isak is not gay, but he who plays Eskild is”. And Harm asked how he knows, and he just knows. And I remember that felt like the end of the exploration of my own sexuality. And it was a principle for me, a political thing, that I wanted to spend time figuring this out. And I felt some shame that I wasn’t as publicly out as Eskild was. But when I hear Eskild talk about these things, about others that are gay, maybe Morten Hegseth was inspired by Eskild. But then and there it became very clear to me that- It suddenly got very personal.
TR: Have you talked to Harm & Hegseth about this?
CME: Nah, I went on Kompani Lauritzen (Norwegian version of reality show Celebrity task force) with them, and my revenge was that I won that whole thing. Jokes aside. I haven’t talked to them about it directly, but I forgive that. You can also criticize Eskild for lots of things that he says. At the same time, I think to be a good queer role model, you give others time and the space to figure their own sexuality out and you don’t publicly speculate about others sexuality. That is, in my opinion, a misunderstanding of what the gay fight should be.
TR: The podcast episode of Harm & Hegseth Carl Martin was talking about, we’ve found, so let’s listen to a snippet.
Morten Hegseth (on his podcast, way back): I get very curious about things, so I did some research yesterday. I wanted to check if the person who plays Isak is gay in real life.
Vegard Harm: And he’s not.
MH: No. But he who plays Eskild is.
Vegard Harm: He is, yeah? That I wouldn’t-I thought he was acting.
MH: Nope.
TR: Morten Hegseth is a participant on this podcast as well, as he is a big Skam fan. But anyway, it’s relevant to hear from him what he thinks of Carl Martin’s criticism.
MH: When me and Vegard discuss who is queer or not queer, the basis is that we don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Because the moment you start to think “we can’t talk about that”, you’re saying that’s something to be ashamed of. But of course, for an actor that young that’s trying to figure himself out, that’s of course not very nice. Looking back at it. But it was a different time. It's almost 10 years ago. Not to say that you were allowed to be an idiot then, but it’s one thing that you shouldn’t speculate about others identity or who they’re together with, I get now that that was stupid. At the same time I’m thankful for the younger generation today that has taught us so much in regards to gender roles, sexuality and all that. You joke about it a lot, adults say “you think you’re so unique, but you’re just recycling the 1900s”. But the younger generation, that came after Skam, has been pretty groundbreaking when it comes to what you should or shouldn’t say about gender and sexuality. And to make assumptions about others' identity, they might change their mind tomorrow, you shouldn’t do that. But you get so obsessed. And is something about, as a queer person, you automatically start to wonder “are they queer in real life too?”. But you shouldn’t draw conclusions.
TR: At the same time Carl Martin is figuring himself out, he’s also about to become a role model for others by playing Eskild in Skam. So there were many thoughts and feelings to deal with.
CME: It was a confusing period. A lot of things happened at the same time. There was a discrepancy between who I was and how others saw me.
TR: At the same time you felt you had to bridge that gap and take a responsibility you just felt like Eskild demanded of you?
CME: I remember my older brother, we were in the kitchen, while I was filming Skam and he asked “but are you gay?”. And I said “I guess I am” and put it out there. And he said “mum and dad would appreciate it if you told them, because they get a lot of questions about it in regards to the show”. I don’t know if it was right or wrong of him to say that, but I understood that it was important to my parents, because they got questions and were unsure and I had to deal with that. I understood there was a momentum there, where I just had to figure stuff out. I didn’t find it difficult to say, but it was a principle to me that- I mean I get that people wonder, because I do too when I watch tv and other contexts too. And I want to be visible and proud, I’ve said in lots of interviews. But at the same time, life’s long and there’s so much to figure out, you can go one way or the other. And I think the most important part is that you’re not lying to yourself and force yourself to explore when you just want to be out there and say that you like guys. But many people like different things and there has to be an openness for that. Eskild became a role model of someone who’s so sure of his gayness. And I felt like many projected that image of Eskild onto me. So I felt that I just had to take that responsibility and quickly be done with my own exploration. Because it was important to me to show that that wasn’t a problem. I get the impression that there’s a lot of actors that, or at least there has been historically, hasn’t been open about their own sexuality because they are scared of not getting any more roles. But I’m not going to let that dictate me. I haven’t thought of that as an actual problem. But I was 20 years old, so I was a little young to get that responsibility. I wish I had gotten time to figure stuff out on my own. At the same time I thought I was important to be a visible role model and I understood that that was important to a lot of people. But Eskild led the way for me too, he was a guru to me. And I didn’t know that’s what he would become. Maybe it was Julie that could see what was inside of me, and put guidning words in my mouth.
TR: Can you place the “blame” that you got this responsibility, you’re 20 and have to put your own process on double or triple speed because you feel like you’ve gotten a responsibility that you haven’t really asked for. Who started that for you?
CME: There’s many ways to see it. In a way it’s me, who said yes to being part of this. And it’s NRK and all those who have dragged me into this. But really, the problem that this show tries to explore is that it’s difficult for many to grow up with a sexuality outside of the norm. And that’s the real problem. I think terms like “coming out of the closet” are very problematic. I wish it was possible to grow up and feel like there’s room for you to happily explore your sexuality, instead of having to figure stuff out fast, people saying he didn’t come out of the closet until he was so or so many years old. Some people might be helped by defining themself and saying out loud who they are. But for many, I’m thinking of that podcast with Morten Hegseth and Vegard Harm, it’s one thing that I was outed as gay, but I’m also thinking of Tarjei. If he had been gay and the whole world got to hear that he wasn’t. That puts a lock on people. To allow people to explore is very important. But there’s the (clinch?), I thought it was very important that I was clear and said I was gay, because it meant a lot for a lot of people that I was happy about that and didn’t have issues with it. At the same time I wish there was time and space for me to explore and figure stuff out. Because part of the joy of life is to figure stuff like that out. Why does that have to be such a traumatising, stressful thing that you have to decide who you love? There’s wine tastings, coffee tastings and all kinds of things. Why can’t you taste other stuff too? It takes time to find out what you like. I wish I had put that into words earlier, as Eskild. But at that time, in 2015-2016 when season 3 aired, it was important to have a character like Eskild that’s very sure of himself in contrast to Isak wasn’t ashamed of his own sexuality.
(skip to 44:48)
TR: I’ve mentioned there’s a lot of symbolism in these episodes. Let’s mention some of it. The music playing during the pool scene, I’m Kissing You by Des’ree, is also on the Baz Luhrmann Romeo + Juliet soundtrack and used in a kissing scene between Leonardo Dicaprio and Clare Danes in a swimming pool. This clip is posted at 21:21. The number 21 shows up in many places in Skam. Those who really know their angel numbers stuff can get something from that which I don’t know if it’s done on purpose, but there’s other things here that are on purpose. Isak is a biblical name. He’s Abraham’s son. And Isak’s birth is in Genesis 1 verse 21. And our Isak is in a way born here. *sound bite from the pool scene* He has at least found out a bit more about who he is, he’s had a second birth. And it happened in the water, that’s also associated with that kind of stuff. And Even is dressed up like God during all of this. And people find these references and hidden symbolism. Mari Magnus was responsible for the digital lives of the Skam characters. In the season 3 banner on the Skam website there was lots to dig into for the fans.
MM: Many hours of work are behind those. And with Isak, the idea is that it’s Even’s doodles. But there’s also easter eggs put in there. And to get the gay theme across there’s gps coordinates to a public urinal in Bislet (area in Oslo), that’s an old classic gay spot.
TR: Glory hole?
MM: With a glory hole.
(skip to 48:00)
TR: The character’s names are interesting here. Like Even, he’s called Even Bech Næsheim. An interesting last name as Nils Bech, the artist who will have an important role later in the season, and Knut Næsheim, show creator and close friend of Julie Andem, had a close relationship at this time.
Omg, I’ve been refreshing your home page all day 🥹 Finally saw the translation for Episode 5, thank you so much for all your hard work 🫶🏻🫶🏻this is no doubt a big task.🥹 Just to confirm—do you only translate Henrik and Julie’s parts, and not the other guests? Look forward to hear back from you 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
I've just finished the rest of the episode, it'll be up later tonight as well!! It's mostly Carl Martin (loooved him in this ep, probas my fav part of the podcast so far) and like one quote from Mari Magnus.
I decided early on that I wouldn't do the parts where the host and some other guest (mostly it's a actress/influencer called Tale Torjussen who's been in some other NRK youth shows) goes through the show's plot. It's all interesting, but I figured those are the kind of conversations we've already been having in the fandom for years and there's a ton of english speaking reaction videos on youtube that's basically the same thing. Gotta draw the limit somewhere to save my energy.
But any guest that's already a known name within the fandom I've been including in full and plan to continue doing!
Henrik Holm on the Skam podcast - english translation
In the fifth episode of the Skam 10 year anniversary podcast Henrik talks about how he almost got arrested on the day of his audition, experiencing homophobia when playing a queer character and hate from henjei shippers. (this is part 1/2 from this podcast episode).
Torkil Risan (host): In this episode we’ll talk about episode 1-4 of Skam season 3, Even and Isak. The show has a new main character and the trailer hints at the themes we are getting into.
Morten Hegseth: It was very homoerotic. There was milk and a locker room and it created a bit of an outrage, some complained about sexualising homos in that way and why allude to the body and sex. Some were mad, as it always is. But that made me very excited for season 3.
TR: Were you sceptical?
MH: Absolutely not *laughs*
TR: At the same time an, at that point, unemployed actor called Henrik Holm has followed the Skam hype during the first two seasons with scepticism.
HH: I grew up in Oslo, as close to Hartvig Nissen as you possibly could, right across the street on the first floor. I remember thinking “oh my god, that’s not what it’s like to go to high school in Oslo”. I don’t know, I think it hit too close to home for it to feel believable. So to be honest, I was pretty critical. And I remember I saw the famous milk teaser for season 3 and thought “oh my god, are they making a season that’ll sexualise homosexuality? what are they doing?”.
TR: So you had those thoughts, but yet you went to an open casting call?
HH: An open casting call. And this was really groundbreaking when it came out, so to get to act in that, was at that point almost like getting cast in Game of Thrones. By Norwegian standards.
TR: And Henrik is the type of person to prepare thoroughly before an audition. It was important that the character he was reading for, Even, could smoke weed believable. Luckily Henrik knew a place in Stensparken in Oslo where they practiced those kinds of things, so he went to the so-called “Spliff mountain” right before his audition.
HH: I picked up a stick to make it look like I had a joint. Spliff mountain is a smoking spot. It’s almost, I can’t compare it to Christiania (neighbourhood in Copenhagen), but it’s a sanctuary and it has been for many years. It took some time before someone arrived to smoke an actual joint. They sat down beside us and asked “Hi guys, is it alright if we light up?” and we just “yeah, yeah, no worries, we’re just practicing a scene”. In the middle of the scene I notice some suspicious looking people in hiking gear, who’s not supposed to be up on the hill. And in the middle of that scene where we’re pretending to smoke I just hear “undercover (police), put down what you’re holding”. And the buddy beside me throws his stuff behind him and we’re like hands up, throwing away our sticks *laughs*. They are convinced that now we’ve captured some illegal weed users, so they want our personal details and say “we saw what you were doing. We don’t have evidence, but we saw you smoke”. And I was just thinking “what is happening? how will I get out of this? will this stop me from getting to the audition?” Because from their point of view, we were a group smoking together and every excuse we put forward was just to get away. But fortunately the buddy who was actually smoking said “just let those guys be, I don’t know them, they weren’t with me”. So he took one for the team and we got away that day.
TR: Henrik aced the audition and got the role. Something that Morten Hegseth was thankful for.
MH: I would say it’s the closest we’ve gotten to James Dean in Norway.
(skip to 07:44)
TR: Even is a bit strange in that bathroom scene, he uses an extreme amount of paper towels. This was also a scene that Henrik Holm practiced extra for.
HH: He had to have the ability to take someone by storm. The character had to capture his (Isak’s) attention like no one had before. So I remember finding it difficult to have that playfulness and indulge in his type of humor. Like in that bathroom scene where he takes all the paper towels and asks “you needed some too?” I had to take that scene out on the town, just to check where the realness was. How do you actually deliver a line like that? Because it was so far away from what I would say.
TR: It sounds like a scary thing to do, to do Even’s paper towel trick out on the town in Oslo.
HH: It was a bit scary.
TR: Even succeeds in getting Isak’s attention. And I want to bring forward a scene that’s a good example of something that Skam is unusually good at, the use of music. Maybe I’m extra sensitive to this one because it takes me right back to being hopelessly in love in high school, just play these few notes. *plays Talk Show Host by Radiohead*. And it’s not necessarily a good feeling. Often being in love is portrayed as something easy and light, but sometimes it’s heavy and difficult, even tragic. This song evokes those feelings. Isak is in the school yard and zooing out while Vilde talks as he sees Even. And the music is not the only reason for picking this Radiohead song. In Baz Luhrmann’s Romeo + Juliet there’s an iconic scene where we see Leonardo Dicaprio’s Romeo the first time, a reference Julie Andem made on purpose
JA: It came as a result of me deciding to make a parallel to Juliet and Romeo in season 3. And I just thought it would be fun to play with the references from Baz Luhrmann’s movie through the whole thing and it’s an amazing scene when he walks on the beach.
(skip to 11:45)
TR: The references are not just something those of us who look for them can find, here it’s explicit. Even talks about both Baz Luhrmann and Romeo and Juliet, a story not exactly known for its happy ending.
JA: Romeo and Juliet is an archetype love story, that I thought- when I put together the scene where Isak watches Romeo and Juliet and that longing for, a feeling that he could never have that love because he’s different. And I wanted to see if it was possible to get the audience to feel jealous of Isak and Even’s love story. Like he was jealous of Romeo and Juliet. Can you make a gay love story that is so powerful the audience wants to be a gay 16 year old? Both because that’s the set up of Romeo and Juliet and because if there's always a fear of it not happening and ending, the power of the love story is stronger.
(skip to 14)
*Sound bite from the cheese toast scene*
HH: That was 100% improvisation.
TR: It was?
HH: Yeah, I can tell. I think the only thing in the script were the messages and then it said “they make toast”.
TR: What’s so beautiful with this is, it’s not about the cheese toast, from Isak’s pov, it’s something new and exciting for Isak.
HH: It’s like kids playing. And love should be fun.
(skip to 20:25)
TR: Isak is struggling with his locker, until Even turns up.
Sound bite from the show, Even: Are you going to the Halloween thing?
Isak: Nah. Or, maybe, idk. Are you?
Even: Join me.
Isak: Okay.
Even: Great, then we’ll pre-game together. *slam*
TR: What’s happening there is you, bashing his locker into place, that Isak has struggled with the whole season. I think I missed that symbolism on my first watch.
HH: There’s symbolism there. And that scene took quite a few takes to get right. I don’t know how many times I hit the locker without it opening
TR: In Skam there’s a lot of symbolism and references to numbers, little things like the locker. How clear was that to you?
HH: They kept that to themselves. That wasn’t something we were supposed to think about, because the characters wouldn’t understand that context or have that perspective on those things. So those are things I didn’t understand until way later.
(skip to 25:50)
TR: The themes we’re talking about here, queer love, we haven’t seen a lot of in Norway before this season of Skam. At least not in this way. Henrik Holm experienced people getting really into it, for better or worse.
HH: It was a little absurd, because people thought we were really gay, to the degree where they thought we were in a relationship outside of the show. And many refused to let that fantasy go, to the degree where they were sending messages to friends, family, partners.
TR: Like questions?
HH: No, more hate. Stuff like “you have to let Henrik be with Tarjei”. My ex got a lot of strange stuff in her inbox. In addition to us getting a real feel of what homophobia actually is like, in the shape of slurs thrown at you in the streets and nasty glares. I remember getting surprised that there’s still so much homophobia in the world. And I realised how important the show was. Partly because of that, but mostly because of the reaction from those it meant a lot to. And that totally changed our relationship to what we had created. So it was mostly very, very positive that people needed those kinds of role models on tv.
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