Okay, so, some people came up to defend Itachi in the post I made about him and his fandom; I'm gonna quote a specific comment and reply it ā point by point ā and clarify some things.
"This is such a pro-konoha take. You mean to tell me they wrote a whole story about the propaganda of the corrupt government and then you BOUGHT the propaganda said government set up about Itachi, a 13 year old child.
Itachi didnāt like what he was doing and was never proud of the things he did. Ever. Not once. He died feeling like he was a failure.
No Itachi fan says itās justified to hurt Sasuke. No true fan. Maybe youāre interacting with bots because Itachi fans donāt say Sasuke spit on his grave blah blah blah. We all acknowledge Sasuke as a victim of a multi layer scheme from the village puppeteering Itachi from a young age and passed to Sasuke because of it.
Itachi was shaken by the grooming of his past and it shaped how he viewed his present and future. The village has you believing Danzo right now. Just like they wanted. The guy who literally said āKill your clan and if you donāt, I will and start an entire war.ā 13 years old. Approached him RIGHT after his best friend was taken from him in his most vulnerable moments. Stop Danzo? Again, this is a 13 year old kid indoctrinated and groomed into believing in the regime. Even if he told the 3rd hokage wha Danzo did to Shisui, even if he told the 3rd what Danzo requested of him, there was literally zero guarantee anything would come of it and it would just risk Danzo movmen to start the war if he got lip from the 3rd.
Throw the whole government away. Both Sasuke and Itachi were VICTIMS of this regime. It does not justify the abuse. No Itachi fan thinks it does. Itās part of what makes his character tragic is because he felt like he needed to in order to protect Sasuke and the secret he held for the government. Thatās why Sasuke himself feels anguish over his brotherās death even though HE was a victim of Itachiās acting. He understood that his brother was put in this position out of his control as a child because of the corrupt government. Thatās why Sasuke wanted to destroy the Leaf."
"This is such a pro-konoha take. You mean to tell me they wrote a whole story about the propaganda of the corrupt government and then you BOUGHT the propaganda said government set up about Itachi, a 13 year old child."
Um, what? I don't really get why criticizing Itachi and calling him a genocidal, cruel, torturer and abuser is a pro-Konoha take. You mean that I "fell" for the propaganda Konoha set up for Itachi? Just because I can't see him as this poor victim that has no agence over any of his actions some of his fandom paint him as? Being used as a "puppet" nullifies the heinous things he did? Even when he sided with the Leaf since the beginning, during his entire lifetime and even beyond his grave? Even when his character is full of contradictions?
"Itachi didnāt like what he was doing and was never proud of the things he did. Ever. Not once. He died feeling like he was a failure."
And, yet, he said he regretted lying to Sasuke because he could, perhaps, have "changed" his parents and the clan; not because genocide is bad, or anything of the sort; no, it's because the Uchihas were in the wrong and had to be fixed.
He felt like a failure because of the consequences his actions brought to the future of Konoha, such as Sasuke becoming a "criminal" and threatening it's safety and structure. That's it. He only regretted brutalizing Sasuke and making him turn out the way he did; I don't remember any scene in which he shows remorse for the genocide, save that one of him weeping a few tears after killing his parents. And, honestly, even if he truly felt guilty for his actions, it just shows that he knew they were repugnant and committed them, anyway; plus, guilt is not a free-pass to justify atrocities.
"No Itachi fan says itās justified to hurt Sasuke. No true fan. Maybe youāre interacting with bots because Itachi fans donāt say Sasuke spit on his grave blah blah blah. We all acknowledge Sasuke as a victim of a multi layer scheme from the village puppeteering Itachi from a young age and passed to Sasuke because of it."
Genuinely, what side of the fandom are you in? What I see the most are Itachi fans wanking him and justifying every single one of his actions (the genocide was in the name of "peace"; torturing Sasuke was in order to protect and make a "hero" out of him; Sasuke spat on Itachi's grave when he chose to destroy what he sacrificed his life for; etc, etc, etc.). If they aren't true fans for you, so be it; but, then, Itachi has almost no real fans as the majority of them are like this.
It's good that you acknowledge Sasuke as a victim and don't hate him; shows you aren't braindead as the others.
"Itachi was shaken by the grooming of his past and it shaped how he viewed his present and future. The village has you believing Danzo right now. Just like they wanted. The guy who literally said āKill your clan and if you donāt, I will and start an entire war.ā 13 years old. Approached him RIGHT after his best friend was taken from him in his most vulnerable moments. Stop Danzo? Again, this is a 13 year old kid indoctrinated and groomed into believing in the regime. Even if he told the 3rd hokage wha Danzo did to Shisui, even if he told the 3rd what Danzo requested of him, there was literally zero guarantee anything would come of it and it would just risk Danzo movmen to start the war if he got lip from the 3rd."
"The village has you believing Danzo right now. Just like they wanted." What? I apparently "fell" for Danzo propaganda, just because... I criticize Itachi and hold him accountable for his heinous actions?
Like... I never said everything is exclusively Itachi's fault, or that Konoha's government isn't responsible for anything and didn't use him as a tool to do their dirty work. How can you assume that when I didn't even elaborate that far on the political implications of the genocide, as the post was mostly about it's effects on Sasuke and the extreme abuse he suffered at his brother's hands?
"The guy who literally said āKill your clan and if you donāt, I will and start an entire war.ā 13 years old. Approached him RIGHT after his best friend was taken from him in his most vulnerable moments."
The point is: Itachi sided with Konoha way before Danzo approached him. That's a fact. He knew that his clan was being systematically oppressed for generations, and that these oppressive policies were deepened after they were accused of something they didn't do; he knew that being physically and symbolically moved to the outskirts of the village, put under surveillance 24/7 and having zero political power inside the place they helped to found was the reason they (finally) rebelled and planned a coup ā and, as they trusted Itachi, they put upon his shoulders the responsibility of being the link between the Uchihas and the village (as, for being marginalized, they couldn't have many ways of approaching and gathering information). He knew everything that was going on, and still sided with his people's opressors; instead of using his ANBU role to help them, all he did was betray ā every single time. Itachi specifically chose to unveil their secrets, plans and worries to the very same group that actively subjugated them ā and nobody forced him to do that.
Itachi was simply arrogant; he believed his clan to be "alienated" and somehow "inferior" for prioritizing their identity and their (marginalized) people over the nation, and his whole reaction when he got approached and questioned about Shisui's death shows that perfectly ā a typical nationalistic bootlicker behavior.
"Stop Danzo? Again, this is a 13 year old kid indoctrinated and groomed into believing in the regime. Even if he told the 3rd hokage wha Danzo did to Shisui, even if he told the 3rd what Danzo requested of him, there was literally zero guarantee anything would come of it and it would just risk Danzo movmen to start the war if he got lip from the 3rd."
Was he the only one "groomed" into believing the regime? Weren't the other Uchihas raised in an environment that was made to brainwash them, too (and, even then, they could see contradictions and stand up against it)?
In fact, there's no guarantee that Itachi telling Hiruzen about Danzo/Shisui would change anything; but couldn't Itachi... perhaps... do everything in his control to save his people from the brink of destruction? Couldn't he, at least, try? Even with no guarantee that it'd work? Couldn't even the smallest chance motivate him to do more?
I don't particularly remember any scene in which Danzo says he will start a war; he only states that the coup would lead to one (something that has no solid proof) ā a strategy he used to coerce Itachi.
And, well... There's still more Itachi could do besides telling Hiruzen about Shisui. He literally got approached by "Madara" (Obito) ā the whole reason behind the State's distrust towards his clan. He really thought it was convenient to not tell anyone about it? Seriously? Especially knowing that this could, probably, stop the false (and severe) accusations towards the Uchiha and alleviate the conflict?
Couldn't he try to convince the leaders to spare the innocents' life, instead of only extending that "kindness" to his little brother? Couldn't he use his so-called "prodigious and geniuses" to see the whole situation beyond the picture, instead of only blindly submitting to WoF and Konoha's nationalistic propaganda? Etc... etc... etc?
It's not about the results his attempts could bring; it's about his intentions ā something that made it clear that he truly tried, instead of literally just accepting and endorsing what was about to happen to his people.
"Throw the whole government away. Both Sasuke and Itachi were VICTIMS of this regime. It does not justify the abuse. No Itachi fan thinks it does. Itās part of what makes his character tragic is because he felt like he needed to in order to protect Sasuke and the secret he held for the government. Thatās why Sasuke himself feels anguish over his brotherās death even though HE was a victim of Itachiās acting. He understood that his brother was put in this position out of his control as a child because of the corrupt government. Thatās why Sasuke wanted to destroy the Leaf."
"No Itachi fan think it does." Again, or we aren't in the same side of the fandom, or your conception of "Itachi fan" is different. In any way, "true fans" or not, there are many people that, in fact, justify all the extreme abuse he put sasuke through, and my post was directed at them.
"Itās part of what makes his character tragic is because he felt like he needed to in order to protect Sasuke and the secret he held for the government."
Tragic and nonsensical, too. His backwards ass logic only exposed Sasuke to more and more danger and life-threatening situations.
He is like: "I will protect my 7-year-old brother by slaughtering his entire family and make him fucking watch it thousands of times; then, I'm gonna leave him alone in the destroyed Uchiha compound to clean all the blood that I spread and force him into a self-destructive path that, obviously, won't threat his safety. Well... it's not like he's consumed by survivor's guilt everyday and lacks a sense of belonging in the world thanks to identity loss. It's okay for him to live through the horrific parameters I've set, because I love him soo much and, at least, he's alive!"
"Thatās why Sasuke himself feels anguish over his brotherās death even though HE was a victim of Itachiās acting. He understood that his brother was put in this position out of his control as a child because of the corrupt government. Thatās why Sasuke wanted to destroy the Leaf."
Won't say much about this, as it's true. Sasuke loves his brother deeply, so he saw him as someone who was used as a tool against his own people for the sake of Konoha's terroristic war-machine.
I don't completely disagree with Sasuke ā Itachi, in fact, was a tool, but a willingly one. He thinks the genocide was justified, and that everything he did was for the greater good.
Now, regarding other popular arguments such as "Fugaku put Itachi to see war at 4, so he's traumatized and wants peace at all costs!"; "He was a child solving adult's problems and his clan used him as a tool!"; etc, etc, etc: Again, was he the only one? Hadn't literally everyone (or almost everyone) in his generation ā or close to it ā witnessed the exact same events? Like... Fugaku putting him to know the battlefield is not that big of a deal inside the shinobi system. Him having big responsibilities upon his shoulders inside the clan is not, either (he was literally the leader's older son; it is totally normal for him to have more responsibilities, especially with the delicate circumstances they were going through); it may see unfair for you, but it's still nothing out of the ordinary and he definitely wasn't the only one to go through all this ā that's just how the system works. These are not an excuse to slaughter your entire bloodline ā down to the last child...
Well, I think that's it. I understand people with the point of view that Itachi was brainwashed by the Will of Fire, and can agree to an extent; but, the thing is: Couldn't he live up to his "prodigy" status and notice the contradictions and oppresive politics inside the system, just as everyone in his clan did? Or was he too arrogant and egoistic to free himself from his bootlicker agenda and see things beyond the picture? Here's the question...
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