.

[luppakorvat]

So then, what do you think of hunted fur?

depends. I generally don't care about sustenance hunting if done for survival reasons. but I'm against hunting animals for their pelts, especially in countries where fur is not needed, such as Finland.

[luppakorvat]

(image descriptions in alt text.) Since OP turned off reblogs in the original post, it gave me the perfect chance to make my own post about this issue, which is something I did consider doing in the first place. I'm just going to paste what I said in the original post (X) but I wanted to mention some updates to the current situation concerning fur farms and the avian influenza in Finland, namely more animals getting culled and farms shutting down as well as a petition to end fur farming advancing to Parliament (X) (Our current, freshly elected government is very right-wing and controversial which explains the division on the subject. Many members of the government have financial interest in keeping fur farms going.) Original reply under the cut. Trigger warning for discussion of animal abuse.

Ethical fur from Finland? What a fucking joke.

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are spewing misinformation and propaganda. I’m a native ostrobothnian who’s lived in Finland’s fur farming zone their entire life and what you are saying is bullshit. I’ve seen hundreds of fur farms and I’m forced to see them every time I leave town. 95% of the country’s fur farms are located where I live.

Our fur farms are far from ethical and have been a topic of discussion for decades. They are a stain on our reputation, not only for ostrobothnia but Finland as a whole. Since you didn’t provide any sources to your false claims, I went to https://www.sustainablefur.com/animal-welfare/ and the Finnish farm they showcased is located in Oravainen, Vöyri. A lot of information provided in the short and sweet video is in fact incorrect, and the entire presentation reeks of propaganda (showcasing pretty landscapes the animals will never be allowed to live in, etc.) Also sidenote: it’s not all pretty and clean - fur farms are covered in waste, animals are clearly distressed and injured, and the piles of skinned dead animals. It's a sickening sight for a child to randomly stumble upon. Personal experience.

First of all the video claims fur farming sees a lot of political support which is false. Fur farming is very much frowned upon by most parties and only gets support from the right, parties ranging from right-of-center to far-right. (X)

The video also talks of supposed revenue which is also not entirely true, as the industry is only kept alive by government funding. Fur farming is one of the least profitable industries in Finland and the numbers farmers throw out are greatly exaggerated. (sources I’ve linked below delve deeper into this.)

Foxes are selectively bred to be massive with little to no regard for their health and well-being. These giant foxes (jättiketut) have gained notoriety abroad for many years from multiple fur farms. Here is an article: (X) but you can just google ‘giant foxes finland’ or alternatively ‘monster foxes finland’ to learn and see more. And no, the farms which practice the breeding of these animals are not outliers.

You really had the nerve to say not to believe anything that animal rights groups say whilst believing fur farming propaganda. Fur farmers are liars and they get exposed time and time again about everything. This short documentary is unfortunately in Finnish but it paints a good picture of all the lies and corrupt politics that are involved in creating the false image of this dying industry: (X) I personally trust the videos and photos that have come out of investigations not only because fur farmers themselves have accidentally leaked not-so-nice things about their sick animals, but also because I’ve seen farms up close and have also met fur farmers in a casual setting. To say they don’t care about their animals is an understatement. Fur farmers have everything to gain from lying through their teeth and groups such as Oikeutta eläimille have everything to lose from exposing the suffering of animals and the blatant disregard of animal welfare laws that the farmers only claim to practice. /I/ have nothing to gain from responding to this post. You do not get to disregard my experience, you biased and ill-informed foreigner who knows nothing about my land or the subject at hand.

And while you clearly don’t care about the wellbeing of caged animals, not the mention all the thousands of wild birds fur farmers are allowed to kill in their ineffective attempts at controlling the avian influenza (X) & (X), I hope you at least care for the humans involved; which not only includes farmers but the entire country and possibly the whole world.

Which brings me to the topic of the aforementioned avian influenza (X). I bet you didn’t even know about what is currently happening on multiple fur farms at this very moment, considering how you have not done any amount of research beyond websites that confirm your biases with their false presentations. Avian influenza has been found in 25 fur farms a and five mutations of the virus. 13 of these 25 fur farms have been shut down by the government and a total of 120 000 animals have been so far put down at the moment of writing this post (23.8.2023) (X).

And does this come as a surprise to anyone when fur farmers were caught lying about following COVID-19 regulations such as wearing masks and gloves?

Oh yeah and ostrobothnia is a developing region, and we’ve had shortages of funding in many aspects of the public sector my entire life, which can be seen in lack of health care services, and unfinished construction projects, poor road maintenance etc. while money is being flushed down the drain by the fur farming industry. It's gone on for so long that banks are now retracting their support for fur farms by denying them any further loans.

Fur farming contributes very little in taxes to begin with - most of the taxes coming in is income tax from individual workers who would be paying the same amount regardless of who their employer is (even people on unemployment pay approximately the same amount of taxes). The amount of money fur farms contribute to Finland in taxes is negligible in comparison to the amount of money that is spent keeping them afloat. During the pandemic, the amount Finland paid in COVID-19 subsidies to keep fur farms alive was roughly the same what Netherlands spent in compensation to farmers to end fur farming. It would be far more cost effective for the public sector to spend the money it takes to close down fur farms, reimburse farmers and find new employment for their workers, than it is now to continuously spend money keeping the dying industry afloat. For sources and more information about the financial impact of fur farming in Finland and evidence-based discussion of ways to move away from it without sacrificing the well-being of the people employed by it, you can check out this research paper done as a part of the ORSI project (pdf): (X)

How can you in good conscience look at these animals living their entire short lives in wire cages (which are less than a single square meter) and claim their torture is ethical or humane? “WelFur certified” means very little, when the criteria they list doesn't even meet basic animal welfare standards as it was built around the existing industry practices, instead of figuring out what would be best for the animals. Also WelFur only gives farms a blanket rating based on points scored in individual aspects of care so a farm that doesn't meet their welfare standards in one area can still receive a good overall rating - which is by design. Not to mention Luova, the third-party regulatory body that oversees the auditing of finnish fur farms, is partially owned (38%) by the Finnish Fur Breeders' Association - so the certification is really nothing more than a little badge the fur farming industry gives itself to improve their image (something they've boasted about themselves). Fur farming and animal welfare are incompatible, as proven by Sweden where enforcing actual animal welfare standards on farmed foxes resulted in foxes being given up as a farmed fur animal because it stopped being profitable. (X)

If you don’t trust Fur Free Alliance as a source (for caring about animals, which you don’t like), you can go look at the sources they cite in their paper. Which they know how to provide, unlike you. I personally wouldn’t disregard them or any other similar coalition as a source, because whether you like it or not, the topic of fur farming is indeed social justice and I don’t trust the oppressor. You need to provide actual hard evidence if you want people to take your claims seriously. There have been countless investigations and secretly filmed material from fur farms, and you genuinely think ARAs have faked all of them? Even the check-ups and investigations done to enforce regulations? Do you really think people/organisations have their own animals to torture and kill for fake videos? Where the hell are they getting the budget to build all these replicas and where are they getting all the animals from? When I saw fur farms up close and spoke with workers, were they all fake, too?

Putting Finnish fur farms on a pedestal means that the bar is so low it’s nonexistent.

And don’t you fucking start talking about indigenous people in context of finnish fur farms. Why don’t you buy pelts directly from indigenous people? Why are you buying imported pelts from Finland? And in similar vein, fur farming as an industry here is only about 100 years old, and is nothing like how pelts used to be harvested: my ancestors were hunter-gatherers and pelts were highly valued, and there were ceremonies related to honoring the souls of the animal. This shit show is a mockery of our native tradition, and if you’d actually want to support said culture, then this is not the way. It's just capitalism and animal abuse.

You often complain about ARAs caring more about animals than humans but in this situation we have to grow up surrounded by fur farms and deal with them draining our tax money, and now worry about avian influenza spreading into our community from our fucking backyard, all so you can get your "ethically farmed fur". You don’t care for animals or humans, and you are scum and should be ashamed of spreading misinformation in support of this disgusting industry. You have proven yourself a biased and terrible so-called “educator” which means this will be the only time I’ll ever indulge in this topic (or in conversation) with someone like you.

[is-the-fox-video-cute]

Im genuinely curious and i Do Not mean to start shit or be offensive.

Why do you support fur farming? Theyre notoriously terrible for multiple reasons and i genuinely dont understand why someone would support (buy from) fur farms? I can understand hunting and skinning animals that threaten livestock like chickens and not wanting to waste it or avtually planning to use it, but just for fun? Profit?

Like i said, im genuinely curious and i dont mean to sound offensive if i do. I want to understand why someone who runs a blog for the safety or "cuteness" of fox videos supports fur farms

Fur farms are not inherently terrible or cruel. There are plenty of good farms who take excellent care of their animals. My fur farming tag has plenty of information on good farming practices and welfare.

All of the farmed foxes I own come from a couple of farms in Finland, which has the highest welfare standards in the world. All of these farms are Welfur certified, meaning the care and welfare of the animals goes above and beyond the standard. I follow some of the farmers on Instagram and have seen photos of all the farms my foxes come from. The majority were purchased from @orangelionfurandtaxidermy who i know has visited and works very closely with the farmers she gets her pelts from to ensure the foxes are treated well.

Don't believe everything you hear from animal rights groups about fur farming. A lot of it is staged/fake or just outright lies to push their anti-fur agenda. If farmers want a good pelt that will earn a profit they HAVE to take good care of their animals. Fur quality is directly linked to animal health and welfare. Decades of scientific research has gone into the care of these animals and research is constantly ongoing.

Is fur farming perfect? No. Are there still improvements to be made in the industry? Yes. Do some countries, like China and the US, have a lot of issues with poor regulations and welfare in fur farming? Yes. But there are plenty of good farms out there. Farmers who care about their animals and try to give them a good life and the best care. You just have to do your research and make sure you're buying from reputable and well-regulated sources.

[luppakorvat]

Ethical fur from Finland? What a fucking joke.

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are spewing misinformation and propaganda. I’m a native ostrobothnian who’s lived in Finland’s fur farming zone their entire life and what you are saying is bullshit. I’ve seen hundreds of fur farms and I’m forced to see them every time I leave town. 95% of the country’s fur farms are located where I live.

Our fur farms are far from ethical and have been a topic of discussion for decades. They are a stain on our reputation, not only for ostrobothnia but Finland as a whole. Since you didn’t provide any sources to your false claims, I went to https://www.sustainablefur.com/animal-welfare/ and the Finnish farm they showcased is located in Oravainen, Vöyri. A lot of information provided in the short and sweet video is in fact incorrect, and the entire presentation reeks of propaganda (showcasing pretty landscapes the animals will never be allowed to live in, etc.) Also sidenote: it’s not all pretty and clean - fur farms are covered in waste, animals are clearly distressed and injured, and the piles of skinned dead animals. It's a sickening sight for a child to randomly stumble upon. Personal experience.

First of all the video claims fur farming sees a lot of political support which is false. Fur farming is very much frowned upon by most parties and only gets support from the right, parties ranging from right-of-center to far-right. (X)

The video also talks of supposed revenue which is also not entirely true, as the industry is only kept alive by government funding. Fur farming is one of the least profitable industries in Finland and the numbers farmers throw out are greatly exaggerated. (sources I’ve linked below delve deeper into this.)

Foxes are selectively bred to be massive with little to no regard for their health and well-being. These giant foxes (jättiketut) have gained notoriety abroad for many years from multiple fur farms. Here is an article: (X) but you can just google ‘giant foxes finland’ or alternatively ‘monster foxes finland’ to learn and see more. And no, the farms which practice the breeding of these animals are not outliers.

You really had the nerve to say not to believe anything that animal rights groups say whilst believing fur farming propaganda. Fur farmers are liars and they get exposed time and time again about everything. This short documentary is unfortunately in Finnish but it paints a good picture of all the lies and corrupt politics that are involved in creating the false image of this dying industry: (X) I personally trust the videos and photos that have come out of investigations not only because fur farmers themselves have accidentally leaked not-so-nice things about their sick animals, but also because I’ve seen farms up close and have also met fur farmers in a casual setting. To say they don’t care about their animals is an understatement. Fur farmers have everything to gain from lying through their teeth and groups such as Oikeutta eläimille have everything to lose from exposing the suffering of animals and the blatant disregard of animal welfare laws that the farmers only claim to practice. /I/ have nothing to gain from responding to this post. You do not get to disregard my experience, you biased and ill-informed foreigner who knows nothing about my land or the subject at hand.

And while you clearly don’t care about the wellbeing of caged animals, not the mention all the thousands of wild birds fur farmers are allowed to kill in their ineffective attempts at controlling the avian influenza (X) & (X), I hope you at least care for the humans involved; which not only includes farmers but the entire country and possibly the whole world.

Which brings me to the topic of the aforementioned avian influenza (X). I bet you didn’t even know about what is currently happening on multiple fur farms at this very moment, considering how you have not done any amount of research beyond websites that confirm your biases with their false presentations. Avian influenza has been found in 25 fur farms a and five mutations of the virus. 13 of these 25 fur farms have been shut down by the government and a total of 120 000 animals have been so far put down at the moment of writing this post (23.8.2023) (X).

And does this come as a surprise to anyone when fur farmers were caught lying about following COVID-19 regulations such as wearing masks and gloves?

Oh yeah and ostrobothnia is a developing region, and we’ve had shortages of funding in many aspects of the public sector my entire life, which can be seen in lack of health care services, and unfinished construction projects, poor road maintenance etc. while money is being flushed down the drain by the fur farming industry. It's gone on for so long that banks are now retracting their support for fur farms by denying them any further loans.

Fur farming contributes very little in taxes to begin with - most of the taxes coming in is income tax from individual workers who would be paying the same amount regardless of who their employer is (even people on unemployment pay approximately the same amount of taxes). The amount of money fur farms contribute to Finland in taxes is negligible in comparison to the amount of money that is spent keeping them afloat. During the pandemic, the amount Finland paid in COVID-19 subsidies to keep fur farms alive was roughly the same what Netherlands spent in compensation to farmers to end fur farming. It would be far more cost effective for the public sector to spend the money it takes to close down fur farms, reimburse farmers and find new employment for their workers, than it is now to continuously spend money keeping the dying industry afloat. For sources and more information about the financial impact of fur farming in Finland and evidence-based discussion of ways to move away from it without sacrificing the well-being of the people employed by it, you can check out this research paper done as a part of the ORSI project (pdf): (X)

How can you in good conscience look at these animals living their entire short lives in wire cages (which are less than a single square meter) and claim their torture is ethical or humane? “WelFur certified” means very little, when the criteria they list doesn't even meet basic animal welfare standards as it was built around the existing industry practices, instead of figuring out what would be best for the animals. Also WelFur only gives farms a blanket rating based on points scored in individual aspects of care so a farm that doesn't meet their welfare standards in one area can still receive a good overall rating - which is by design. Not to mention Luova, the third-party regulatory body that oversees the auditing of finnish fur farms, is partially owned (38%) by the Finnish Fur Breeders' Association - so the certification is really nothing more than a little badge the fur farming industry gives itself to improve their image (something they've boasted about themselves). Fur farming and animal welfare are incompatible, as proven by Sweden where enforcing actual animal welfare standards on farmed foxes resulted in foxes being given up as a farmed fur animal because it stopped being profitable. (X)

If you don’t trust Fur Free Alliance as a source (for caring about animals, which you don’t like), you can go look at the sources they cite in their paper. Which they know how to provide, unlike you. I personally wouldn’t disregard them or any other similar coalition as a source, because whether you like it or not, the topic of fur farming is indeed social justice and I don’t trust the oppressor. You need to provide actual hard evidence if you want people to take your claims seriously. There have been countless investigations and secretly filmed material from fur farms, and you genuinely think ARAs have faked all of them? Even the check-ups and investigations done to enforce regulations? Do you really think people/organisations have their own animals to torture and kill for fake videos? Where the hell are they getting the budget to build all these replicas and where are they getting all the animals from? When I saw fur farms up close and spoke with workers, were they all fake, too?

Putting Finnish fur farms on a pedestal means that the bar is so low it’s nonexistent.

And don’t you fucking start talking about indigenous people in context of finnish fur farms. Why don’t you buy pelts directly from indigenous people? Why are you buying imported pelts from Finland? And in similar vein, fur farming as an industry here is only about 100 years old, and is nothing like how pelts used to be harvested: my ancestors were hunter-gatherers and pelts were highly valued, and there were ceremonies related to honoring the souls of the animal. This shit show is a mockery of our native tradition, and if you’d actually want to support said culture, then this is not the way. It's just capitalism and animal abuse.

You often complain about ARAs caring more about animals than humans but in this situation we have to grow up surrounded by fur farms and deal with them draining our tax money, and now worry about avian influenza spreading into our community from our fucking backyard, all so you can get your "ethically farmed fur". You don’t care for animals or humans, and you are scum and should be ashamed of spreading misinformation in support of this disgusting industry. You have proven yourself a biased and terrible so-called “educator” which means this will be the only time I’ll ever indulge in this topic (or in conversation) with someone like you.

[honestlyvan]

I want to pull out this link from that addition, the second part of which addresses Welfur and the lack of actual scientific backing for assessing the animal welfare of fur foxes. It’s quite unambiguous about how the farmed lines are nowhere close to being habituated to humans the way actual domesticated animals would be, and that none of the current keeping practices promote the kind of natural behaviours these wild animals would have, because they’re not profitable.

One explanation for a lack of interest in group housing of silver foxes may stem from previous experiences in fox farming. During the early years of fox farming in Finland as well as in other countries, silver foxes were typically raised in groups in semi-natural, soil floored pens with up to 100 m2 of floor area and an underground den. 

However, it was soon realized that in these conditions, as in nature, intestinal parasites were found in almost every fox, fights between individuals were common, cub mortality was high in damp, underground nests and foxes did not habituate to the presence of humans. During the following decades, the recommended housing system of that time became the standard practice in fox farming.

So, even if we ignore that the mythical farm that meets all the welfare standards where no violations ever happens doesn’t exist, even that “perfectly ethically” run farm is essentially doing no better than catching wild animals and putting them in cages. You don’t have to be hardline against animal products or animal production to see the problem there. It’s a textbook case of exploitation of nature.

Fur farming in Finland trades on a mythology of the land-tending native -- which is horseshit, Finland is an industrialised western nation and fur farming, an industry like any other, doesn’t truly hold itself to any other standard but money and prestige.

[is-the-fox-video-cute]

Im genuinely curious and i Do Not mean to start shit or be offensive.

Why do you support fur farming? Theyre notoriously terrible for multiple reasons and i genuinely dont understand why someone would support (buy from) fur farms? I can understand hunting and skinning animals that threaten livestock like chickens and not wanting to waste it or avtually planning to use it, but just for fun? Profit?

Like i said, im genuinely curious and i dont mean to sound offensive if i do. I want to understand why someone who runs a blog for the safety or "cuteness" of fox videos supports fur farms

Fur farms are not inherently terrible or cruel. There are plenty of good farms who take excellent care of their animals. My fur farming tag has plenty of information on good farming practices and welfare.

All of the farmed foxes I own come from a couple of farms in Finland, which has the highest welfare standards in the world. All of these farms are Welfur certified, meaning the care and welfare of the animals goes above and beyond the standard. I follow some of the farmers on Instagram and have seen photos of all the farms my foxes come from. The majority were purchased from @orangelionfurandtaxidermy who i know has visited and works very closely with the farmers she gets her pelts from to ensure the foxes are treated well.

Don't believe everything you hear from animal rights groups about fur farming. A lot of it is staged/fake or just outright lies to push their anti-fur agenda. If farmers want a good pelt that will earn a profit they HAVE to take good care of their animals. Fur quality is directly linked to animal health and welfare. Decades of scientific research has gone into the care of these animals and research is constantly ongoing.

Is fur farming perfect? No. Are there still improvements to be made in the industry? Yes. Do some countries, like China and the US, have a lot of issues with poor regulations and welfare in fur farming? Yes. But there are plenty of good farms out there. Farmers who care about their animals and try to give them a good life and the best care. You just have to do your research and make sure you're buying from reputable and well-regulated sources.

[luppakorvat]

Ethical fur from Finland? What a fucking joke.

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are spewing misinformation and propaganda. I’m a native ostrobothnian who’s lived in Finland’s fur farming zone their entire life and what you are saying is bullshit. I’ve seen hundreds of fur farms and I’m forced to see them every time I leave town. 95% of the country’s fur farms are located where I live.

Our fur farms are far from ethical and have been a topic of discussion for decades. They are a stain on our reputation, not only for ostrobothnia but Finland as a whole. Since you didn’t provide any sources to your false claims, I went to https://www.sustainablefur.com/animal-welfare/ and the Finnish farm they showcased is located in Oravainen, Vöyri. A lot of information provided in the short and sweet video is in fact incorrect, and the entire presentation reeks of propaganda (showcasing pretty landscapes the animals will never be allowed to live in, etc.) Also sidenote: it’s not all pretty and clean - fur farms are covered in waste, animals are clearly distressed and injured, and the piles of skinned dead animals. It's a sickening sight for a child to randomly stumble upon. Personal experience.

First of all the video claims fur farming sees a lot of political support which is false. Fur farming is very much frowned upon by most parties and only gets support from the right, parties ranging from right-of-center to far-right. (X)

The video also talks of supposed revenue which is also not entirely true, as the industry is only kept alive by government funding. Fur farming is one of the least profitable industries in Finland and the numbers farmers throw out are greatly exaggerated. (sources I’ve linked below delve deeper into this.)

Foxes are selectively bred to be massive with little to no regard for their health and well-being. These giant foxes (jättiketut) have gained notoriety abroad for many years from multiple fur farms. Here is an article: (X) but you can just google ‘giant foxes finland’ or alternatively ‘monster foxes finland’ to learn and see more. And no, the farms which practice the breeding of these animals are not outliers.

You really had the nerve to say not to believe anything that animal rights groups say whilst believing fur farming propaganda. Fur farmers are liars and they get exposed time and time again about everything. This short documentary is unfortunately in Finnish but it paints a good picture of all the lies and corrupt politics that are involved in creating the false image of this dying industry: (X) I personally trust the videos and photos that have come out of investigations not only because fur farmers themselves have accidentally leaked not-so-nice things about their sick animals, but also because I’ve seen farms up close and have also met fur farmers in a casual setting. To say they don’t care about their animals is an understatement. Fur farmers have everything to gain from lying through their teeth and groups such as Oikeutta eläimille have everything to lose from exposing the suffering of animals and the blatant disregard of animal welfare laws that the farmers only claim to practice. /I/ have nothing to gain from responding to this post. You do not get to disregard my experience, you biased and ill-informed foreigner who knows nothing about my land or the subject at hand.

And while you clearly don’t care about the wellbeing of caged animals, not the mention all the thousands of wild birds fur farmers are allowed to kill in their ineffective attempts at controlling the avian influenza (X) & (X), I hope you at least care for the humans involved; which not only includes farmers but the entire country and possibly the whole world.

Which brings me to the topic of the aforementioned avian influenza (X). I bet you didn’t even know about what is currently happening on multiple fur farms at this very moment, considering how you have not done any amount of research beyond websites that confirm your biases with their false presentations. Avian influenza has been found in 25 fur farms a and five mutations of the virus. 13 of these 25 fur farms have been shut down by the government and a total of 120 000 animals have been so far put down at the moment of writing this post (23.8.2023) (X).

And does this come as a surprise to anyone when fur farmers were caught lying about following COVID-19 regulations such as wearing masks and gloves?

Oh yeah and ostrobothnia is a developing region, and we’ve had shortages of funding in many aspects of the public sector my entire life, which can be seen in lack of health care services, and unfinished construction projects, poor road maintenance etc. while money is being flushed down the drain by the fur farming industry. It's gone on for so long that banks are now retracting their support for fur farms by denying them any further loans.

Fur farming contributes very little in taxes to begin with - most of the taxes coming in is income tax from individual workers who would be paying the same amount regardless of who their employer is (even people on unemployment pay approximately the same amount of taxes). The amount of money fur farms contribute to Finland in taxes is negligible in comparison to the amount of money that is spent keeping them afloat. During the pandemic, the amount Finland paid in COVID-19 subsidies to keep fur farms alive was roughly the same what Netherlands spent in compensation to farmers to end fur farming. It would be far more cost effective for the public sector to spend the money it takes to close down fur farms, reimburse farmers and find new employment for their workers, than it is now to continuously spend money keeping the dying industry afloat. For sources and more information about the financial impact of fur farming in Finland and evidence-based discussion of ways to move away from it without sacrificing the well-being of the people employed by it, you can check out this research paper done as a part of the ORSI project (pdf): (X)

How can you in good conscience look at these animals living their entire short lives in wire cages (which are less than a single square meter) and claim their torture is ethical or humane? “WelFur certified” means very little, when the criteria they list doesn't even meet basic animal welfare standards as it was built around the existing industry practices, instead of figuring out what would be best for the animals. Also WelFur only gives farms a blanket rating based on points scored in individual aspects of care so a farm that doesn't meet their welfare standards in one area can still receive a good overall rating - which is by design. Not to mention Luova, the third-party regulatory body that oversees the auditing of finnish fur farms, is partially owned (38%) by the Finnish Fur Breeders' Association - so the certification is really nothing more than a little badge the fur farming industry gives itself to improve their image (something they've boasted about themselves). Fur farming and animal welfare are incompatible, as proven by Sweden where enforcing actual animal welfare standards on farmed foxes resulted in foxes being given up as a farmed fur animal because it stopped being profitable. (X)

If you don’t trust Fur Free Alliance as a source (for caring about animals, which you don’t like), you can go look at the sources they cite in their paper. Which they know how to provide, unlike you. I personally wouldn’t disregard them or any other similar coalition as a source, because whether you like it or not, the topic of fur farming is indeed social justice and I don’t trust the oppressor. You need to provide actual hard evidence if you want people to take your claims seriously. There have been countless investigations and secretly filmed material from fur farms, and you genuinely think ARAs have faked all of them? Even the check-ups and investigations done to enforce regulations? Do you really think people/organisations have their own animals to torture and kill for fake videos? Where the hell are they getting the budget to build all these replicas and where are they getting all the animals from? When I saw fur farms up close and spoke with workers, were they all fake, too?

Putting Finnish fur farms on a pedestal means that the bar is so low it’s nonexistent.

And don’t you fucking start talking about indigenous people in context of finnish fur farms. Why don’t you buy pelts directly from indigenous people? Why are you buying imported pelts from Finland? And in similar vein, fur farming as an industry here is only about 100 years old, and is nothing like how pelts used to be harvested: my ancestors were hunter-gatherers and pelts were highly valued, and there were ceremonies related to honoring the souls of the animal. This shit show is a mockery of our native tradition, and if you’d actually want to support said culture, then this is not the way. It's just capitalism and animal abuse.

You often complain about ARAs caring more about animals than humans but in this situation we have to grow up surrounded by fur farms and deal with them draining our tax money, and now worry about avian influenza spreading into our community from our fucking backyard, all so you can get your "ethically farmed fur". You don’t care for animals or humans, and you are scum and should be ashamed of spreading misinformation in support of this disgusting industry. You have proven yourself a biased and terrible so-called “educator” which means this will be the only time I’ll ever indulge in this topic (or in conversation) with someone like you.