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@myname1sjane
me, circa early 1800s, paying a stable boy a few coppers to ride overnight to deliver you an urgent letter with a thick wax seal that after you struggle to break it just says “bitch!” in tiny little writing
no no no, you don’t understand the true level of spiteful here. The sender of a letter didn’t pay for the post in 1800. The receiver did. You just made your enemy pay for the privilege of being insulted.
I’m starting to see why messengers were gettin’ shot
About popular Dark Side Theories
Tbh I don't really subscribe to the "all sides have an opposite dark side" theory, because
1. Remus is not Roman's polar opposite in the way "Good" is the opposite of "Bad". They are both creativity and they both want functionally the same things for Thomas(a legacy, "good" content, not being boring)
2. Patton and Deceit or Logan and Deceit both have opposing qualities. Patton wants Thomas to be selfless- Deceit wants thomas to be selfish. Deceit hides the truth and uses manipulation to get what he wants- Logan uses straightforward facts to prove his point.
It is, however, a stretch to say either one of them is Deceit's "opposite side". With that logic, Roman and Logan could be opposites: "Pragmatism and optimism aren't necessarily contradictory"(AoVD), and Patton and Logan can be opposites: Heart and Brain.
3. Remember, the "others" aren't defined by their contrast to the main sides. They were cast away because Thomas, unconsciously, saw them and went, that's not me. I don't want to be that.
Logan and Roman butt heads plenty of times throughout the whole show, but they are both accepted as a main side because Thomas thinks they both contribute good, albeit contradictory, things to him.
.....However I do think the rainbow sides theory is very plausible. :) They did make a point of giving each side a color. I'm guessing that one, or mayyyybe two dark sides are left. (orange, or pink and orange)
Oh mighty screenshot queen, how would you describe Thomas's reaction to Virgil's reveal? I haven't seen anyone really talk about it yet. What do you suppose he's thinking?
Ya know, I’ve seen some people say that it looks like Thomas is leaning away from him, almost in fear. But I don’t see fear in his eyes. Surprise? Yes. But not fear. He frowns, ever so slightly, as if processing, but he doesn’t flinch, he doesn’t look afraid (we’ve seen him scared, and this isn’t it). He seems...hurt, maybe. Just a little. But as Virgil gives his half grimace and sinks away, Thomas still doesn’t react with shock or horror.
He looks contemplative; we see him look away and his eyes flit back and forth, as if he’s thinking. Processing. Turning over this new information in his head and seeing how it fits his previous thoughts, memories, and conceptions about Virgil. He would have continued to do so, had he not noticed “Us” still there, needing an outro.
I think that overall, Thomas actually reacted really well, and I think Virgil was worried that Thomas would immediately react negatively. Since Virgil sunk away without saying anything else and Thomas had to finish the video, we don’t really get to see how either of them are now processing this new development, but the last look on Thomas’s face before the outro looks very thoughtful. I think that this won’t impact Virgil and Thomas’s relationship as negatively as Virgil feared...if I may dare to be optimistic, the way that I interpret character!Thomas’s personality I feel like he’d be really proud of Virgil for sharing that with him, once he’d processed it. It took a lot of trust for Virgil to say that, after all. And I think that Thomas would appreciate that.
(sorry there’re no screenshots with this analysis, I have no good way to take them right now)
Patton’s poster wasn’t a rumor…
It was a prophecy.
For those confused, they're talking about Patton's 2018 poster (this one) and the Blue Crayon Theory.
Behold my contribution to the Sander Sides Fandom
ok this is amazing
Dark Side’s Animals And Symbolism
Deceit’s snake like appearance, obviously.
Snakes are known to signify deception and lies, such as with the tale of the garden of Eden and the serpent.
This not only relates to his role as Deceit, but also to his apparent hidden schemes.
The octopus buckle on Remus’s belt. It counts?
Octopuses throughout many cultures represent many things including creativity and unpredictability.
This has to do with his role as the darker side of creativity, as well as his bizarre and erratic behavior.
And Virgil’s hissing and comparison to a cat (when he was only Anxiety)
Cats often symbolize duality and opposites, such as good and evil. They also represent resurrection due to the fable of their nine lives, and balance.
This relates to both Virgil’s past role as a dark side and his present role as a light side. It could also hint as Virgil’s role as the balance between light and dark, and his renewal from one to the other.
Anyways this is all just somethings I noticed, hope it makes sense.
I hope I’m not intruding, but I know a fair amount of people headcanon Virgil’s animal as a spider (some species even hiss) instead of a cat, so have some spider symbolism:
Spiders represent mystery and growth, and the ability to weave your own destiny while still being mindful of the choices you make.
Virgil is obviously very mysterious, with his own past as a dark side hidden. Virgil also grows with his redemption arc and is able to change his status from dark to light. He is also very careful about what decisions he makes, being anxiety and all.
That being said, this is an excellent post and I feel like both cat and spider symbolism works fairly well for our good ol’ shadowling.
Virgil: spidercat
I would also like to add that in a few cultures, snakes are seen as healing, such as the caedeus (spelling? Don't know her.) from Greek mythology. I think this could relate to deceit being self preservation instead of oh ho sneeky snek boi.
Spidercat, spidercat
He’s a spider, and a cat
Spins a web, chases mice
Spooking Pat, once or twice
Look out! Here comes spidercat
Behold my contribution to the Sander Sides Fandom
ok this is amazing
EMBARRASSING PHASES: The Endcard and what it means.
Greetings Guys, Gals, and Non-Binary Pals! Tis I, Taylor, resident theorist and Screenshot Queen, here to talk about the endcard to the latest Sanders Sides video! This endcard was short, but it had a lot of information squeezed inside it that I’m really excited to unpack! Now, there are a lot of different theories that could be based on this information, but for this post, I’m going to try and stay away from speculation (as much as possible, anyway) and stick with what we can safely say for sure is canon based on the data provided and using deductive reasoning, and deliver my own personal theory as to what’s happening storywise at the end.
Without further ado, the game is on!
SO, our main dilemma with this whole segment is that it’s hard to understand anything that comes out of Deceit’s mouth. He has a tendency to speak in opposites…but he doesn’t do so in canon the way he often so clearly does in fics. It’s more fluid, more confusing, more difficult to understand what he really means. But fortunately, we have an advantage for this analysis…we have Virgil. Virgil, who doesn’t seem to have any trouble understanding Deceit throughout the entire scene. Using his responses, things we know from past videos, things we learned in this video, and a small amount of deductive guesswork, we can piece together what exactly Deceit is hinting at at the end of this video.
We start with what seems like some typical, unfriendly banter between Virgil and Deceit, which can actually reveal a lot about their relationship.
“Very well done, Virgil.”
“You’re so…”
“…evolved.”
Once again, we get that glare from Virgil that seems to be specially reserved for Deceit. Compare the look Virgil shoots Patton when he’s worked up and stressed and Patton calls him a cutesy nickname:
To the glares he gives Deceit:
One is the exasperation you shoot a parent who, for the hundredth time, has said something embarrassing in front of your friends, the other is pure contempt.
That being said, the familiarity with which they talk to each other, in my mind at least, all but confirms our previous theories that Virgil and Deceit used to know each other very well.
“Oh, you are HILARIOUS, Virgil, you always have been!”
This line is not just said for the sake of Deceit making fun of Virgil (though I think that is his main intent here), it once again implies a familiarity between the two. I also think this is one of Deceit’s mirrored statements, he’s saying Virgil never has been the funny one (which really, he’s right. That’s not really a big part of Virgil’s character).
“What are you doing here?”
“Hm, a bunch of talk about Halloween…a season for dressing up and pretending to be something or someone else. You’re right, a master of deception such as myself has no place in that kind of discussion.”
Oooooh, this line is so fun to take apart. First off, on the surface, Deceit is saying that, because he is the embodiment of pretending to be something you’re not, he should have had a seat in the Halloween video. And while that is a point he could be making, I don’t think it’s really what he’s talking about, and I think Virgil knows that. (Remember, we’re operating under the assumption that Virgil has a lot of experience dealing with Dee, so he knows how to navigate what he’s saying. As @what-even-is-thiss pointed out, “We’ve now seen a full conversation with Deceit. Not only that, but both sides seemed to understand what was going on. Showing it’s possible to work past Deceit’s lying thing enough to get info out of him.”)
So what is Deceit really talking about here? Well, look at Virgil’s face when Deceit says “pretending to be something or someone else.” He rolls his eyes:
But then for a moment, he looks uneasy:
And that moment is exactly when Deceit says “something or someone else.” Besides, the video wasn’t really about Halloween, Halloween was just the catalyst for Virgil trying to get them to see why it was a big deal to him that they were ignoring his past, and also that he still has his ability to be scary (which Logan points out is important to his function as Anxiety).
No, the video is about phases, and how they shape you as a person. And if Deceit was a big part of Virgil’s past phases, this could very well be his way of reminding Virgil of that past. I think that Deceit is trying to tell Virgil that, because he’s still trying to be scary, he’s not really changed in the way he says he has. “Pretending to be something or someone else” could very well be Deceit’s way of trying to tell Virgil “you’re fooling yourself if you think you’ll ever be anything more than Anxiety, if you think you can change and be better than the rest of us Dark Sides.” And then, we get Virgil’s response:
“Okay, me being able to elicit fear doesn’t take away from the fact that I’ve grown. So don’t even try me with that, Harvey Dense.”
That’s really Virgil’s whole thesis statement for this video: I can still be scary, but I’ve grown. I still was who I used to be, that was real, but I’ve moved beyond that. To Thomas and the others, the message was that they can’t pretend everything is perfect now, because that undermines everything he struggled with. But to Deceit, the message is I’ve moved on. Perhaps even a final, I don’t need you anymore.
From this video, I think it is now safe to assume that Deceit and Virgil used to work more closely together. So now since Virgil is working with the Light Sides instead, how often do you think Deceit has tried to get Virgil to come back to his old ways? What kinds of things do you think Deceit likes to whisper in Virgil’s ear? How much has Deceit been bothering Virgil since the Can LYING Be Good video? We can deduce that it has been at least somewhat regular. Because while in CLBG, Deceit compliments first Roman’s new outfit, then Virgil’s new makeup look, implying he hasn’t intentionally interacted with any of the sides since before Fitting In, when here we get this interaction:
“Clever retort! And convincing statement. And cool costume.”
“You know this is what I normally wear.”
Deceit wouldn’t know that, if the only time he’s seen Virgil recently was CLBG. Virgil had two outfits in that video, and Deceit wouldn’t know what his usual one was…unless he’s been coming around more. Unless he’s been pressuring Virgil off camera for months.
“Don’t even try that with me” implies that this is indeed the case, and that Deceit has been trying just that for awhile now. But why would Deceit be so invested in trying to convince Virgil that his change isn’t real, that his growth is just a facade? Deceit is accusing Virgil of “pretending to be something or someone else,” and why?
Because Virgil has the capability to be the most influential side out of all of them.
I think we can all agree that currently, while all four main sides have a “seat at the discussion table” as Thomas puts it, Patton, as Morality, is actually the side with the most influence, at least when it comes to Thomas’s decisions. But this video confirms something for us: That side used to be Anxiety.
When talking about his emo phase and teenage years, Thomas said that he was “terrified out of his mind” in those days, and later he tells Virgil “You work with us now. You’re not in the driver’s seat anymore…” which implies that Virgil at one point WAS in the driver’s seat.
And when you’re afraid, when you’re driven by your fears and anxieties and insecurities…isn’t it more likely that you’d listen to that voice in your head that tells you to lie? Isn’t it easier to succumb to the darker parts of your mind when you’re confused and afraid and lost? Not saying that you will, of course. Thomas certainly didn’t. But if Thomas is Anxious, I mean really Anxious, I think it stands to reason that the other Dark Sides’ power could be much more pronounced.
Thomas said something while he was talking to Patton that caught my attention:
“There’s a lot that Virgil could do that I don’t want him to do. He knows exactly how to push my buttons.”
If Virgil wanted to, he could absolutely wreck Thomas. He could wreck all of them…but the thing is he doesn’t want to. All Virgil wants, all he’s ever wanted, is to protect Thomas. And here, we come to the question of what exactly is it that a Side wants?
Simply put, every Side wants what is best for Thomas, but every Side is extremely biased in what they believe that is. For Roman, it’s creative fulfillment, for Logan, it’s a healthy lifestyle and the pursuit of growth and knowledge. For Patton, it’s a happy life built on love and kindness, and for Virgil it’s safety, both physical, mental, and social/emotional.
So what does Deceit want? He wants all the things the others want, safety, happiness, success, but he wants it done his way. He wants bliss born of ignorance, security born of secrecy, and prosperity born of lies. That’s what separates him (and I assume the other Dark Sides) from the main four, he is utterly unwilling to compromise on his desires and his methods.
And that is what also separates Virgil from the other Dark Sides, he was willing to compromise. He did see things the others’ way, and it was through that ability to see another perspective that he first decided that he must not be good for Thomas and quit, and then came the new era of him being able to work with the others successfully, on an equal footing that he’d never experienced before.
But Deceit doesn’t have that equal footing, and none of the other Dark Sides do either, because they all refuse to compromise.
Deceit, at least in my interpretation, clearly believes that he can use Virgil somehow to extend his own realm of influence over Thomas. And with that information in hand, we can try and interpret this last, and most confusing, line.
“Just be sure to keep up that personal growth, Virgil. Who knows? Maybe soon, you could be rid of us all…”
SO what does this mean? Is he speaking in an opposite? Is he telling the truth? Is half the statement true and half an opposite? Who is the “us all?” The Dark Sides? The Light Sides? It’s a lot to unpack, and is the most speculative part of this analysis, because really, we’re not meant to have all the answers from this. It’s clear this endcard is a teaser for things to come in the Sanders Sides storyline, and I’m sure in a few months we’ll all be nodding in understanding and praising @thatsthat24 and @thejoanglebook‘s genius, but for now we’re a bit in the dark. So, to figure out what Deceit means, we have to figure out where his truths and where his lies reside.
“Just be sure to keep up that personal growth, Virgil.” To me, the way Deceit places emphasis on the words ‘keep up,’ making them sound almost sarcastic, indicates that this is the lie in his statement. He’s telling Virgil to keep growing, but Deceit doesn’t actually want Virgil to grow. Based on this analysis, it is in Deceit’s best interest that Virgil does not grow, and reverts back to his old tactics.
“Who knows? Maybe soon, you could be rid of us all…” Now here, I think the lie is ‘rid of us all,’ which is based on my assumptions of their character motivations. I believe the “us all” to be the other Dark Sides, and Virgil would be happy if Thomas was rid of the influence of the Dark Sides. Meanwhile, Deceit wants the Dark Sides’ influence to grow stronger, and Deceit’s entire manner in this scene has been vaguely sinister and threatening, which is a conclusion supported by Virgil’s extremely defensive attitude throughout the segment. I think through this sentence, Deceit is saying that soon, the opposite of getting rid of the Dark Sides is going to happen.
So putting the entire statement together, we have “Just be sure to keep up that personal growth, Virgil. Who knows? Maybe soon, you could be rid of us all...”
I believe that to be a threat from Deceit to Virgil: “If you don’t quit this silly personal growth nonsense and go back to doing your job the old way, you’re going to have a much harder time dealing with Us.” It’s intended for Virgil to hear this threat, panic, and go back to his old ways in the hopes that it will protect Thomas from the Dark Sides, which will in turn only make them stronger.
The funny thing is though, if you take his statement completely literally, it gives away how to beat Deceit and his plan. If Virgil keeps growing and learning and becoming closer with the others, it may be even harder for the Dark Sides to gain more control, effectively “getting rid” (or at least diminishing) of their influence.
Deceit’s lies aren’t always based on fact, they’re based on perception. When he tells Thomas “You’re a good person. Everybody says so,” he was intending it to be a lie. The kind of lie you tell yourself in order to stay sane. But that isn’t a lie. Thomas felt like a bad person in that moment, so his inner voice of deception was telling him he was a good person, but as Logan said, “Belief doesn’t always translate to reality.” Thomas is a good person, so Deceit therefore inadvertently (and unintentionally) told the truth.
I believe this is what’s happening here. He doesn’t mean to give away how to beat him, he means Virgil to believe that the Dark Sides are more powerful than they actually are, and that if Virgil doesn’t do what Deceit wants, they’ll make life more difficult for him and for Thomas. But this isn’t actually true. What’s true is that the Light Sides have the most power right now, and the person who holds that balance between the two is Virgil himself. Virgil has shifted his influence to the Light Sides, and Deceit desperately needs that influence back, which is why he wants to stop Virgil’s personal growth right in its tracks.
Only time will tell if I’m right…and only time will tell which Side will win this battle of wits. I don’t know about you all, but my money is on our resident Emo Knightmare.
Ok I know I’ve reblogged this before but it’s like my favourite theory like ever.
Take this with you
to all my white followers who stew in unnecessary guilt trying to come to terms with the privilege you have, watch this
Look here my white followers. If you ever encountered some half-white and half-Black people. Watch this
If you're a writer and you see this post, stop what you're doing.
WHENEVER YOU SEE THIS POST ON YOUR DASH, STOP WHAT YOU’RE DOING AND WRITE ONE SENTENCE FOR YOUR CURRENT PROJECT.
Just one sentence. Stop blogging for one minute and write a single sentence. It could be dialogue, it could be a nice description of scenery, it could be a metaphor, I don’t care. The point is, do it. Then, when you finish, you can get back to blogging.
If this gets viral, you might just have your novel finished by next Tuesday.
Goddamn it, it’s back.
If it stays back, I might manage to finish a third story this year. Jesus.
I swear, this is now my only writing motivation.
BACK AGAIN??? Sigh.
Okay, sorry if anyone gets sick of this, but it’s the best way for me to get myself to write.
heheh gotcha
Now I gotta stop procrastinating dammit
IM REBLOGGING IT AGAIN PEOPLE :))))
WHY!!!
God dammit
oh, here we go
This helped actually
A hot scalding take on “the dark sides are so awful to Virgil!! >:(“
I’ve been seeing a lot of posts about how “deceit and Remus do nothing but bully and pick on Virgil! Mean! Awful sides!” And yah, they have been picking and bullying him, but hers my hot take on the matter.
The dark sides are hurt and they don’t know how to voice that pain in a healthy manner.
We all do pretty awful things when we’re upset and hurt. Virgil left them for the light sides. He left his old family (the dark sides) for a new one. Virgil not only left but he pretended he didn’t know them and that he was never even one of them. Virgil was also pretty awful in how he treated the other dark sides, both deceit and Remus, so it isn’t a one side thing, if someone’s going to be a dick to me you can bet your ass I’m gonna be a dick back. But can you imagine? Someone in your family, someone you are close to just up and leaving you? Not just leaving but also wanting nothing to do with you and pretending you were never even family in the first place? I’d be hurt. I’d be hurt and real bitter.
People do shitty things when they’re hurt.
I agree and you should say it even
Louder!!
REBLOG TO GIVE LOGAN A HUG
I mean look at that boy
A L W A Y S
MY SON
If you're a writer and you see this post, stop what you're doing.
WHENEVER YOU SEE THIS POST ON YOUR DASH, STOP WHAT YOU’RE DOING AND WRITE ONE SENTENCE FOR YOUR CURRENT PROJECT.
Just one sentence. Stop blogging for one minute and write a single sentence. It could be dialogue, it could be a nice description of scenery, it could be a metaphor, I don’t care. The point is, do it. Then, when you finish, you can get back to blogging.
If this gets viral, you might just have your novel finished by next Tuesday.
Goddamn it, it’s back.
If it stays back, I might manage to finish a third story this year. Jesus.
I swear, this is now my only writing motivation.
BACK AGAIN??? Sigh.
Okay, sorry if anyone gets sick of this, but it’s the best way for me to get myself to write.
heheh gotcha
Now I gotta stop procrastinating dammit
IM REBLOGGING IT AGAIN PEOPLE :))))
WHY!!!
God dammit
oh, here we go
This helped actually
About popular Dark Side Theories
Tbh I don't really subscribe to the "all sides have an opposite dark side" theory, because
1. Remus is not Roman's polar opposite in the way "Good" is the opposite of "Bad". They are both creativity and they both want functionally the same things for Thomas(a legacy, "good" content, not being boring)
2. Patton and Deceit or Logan and Deceit both have opposing qualities. Patton wants Thomas to be selfless- Deceit wants thomas to be selfish. Deceit hides the truth and uses manipulation to get what he wants- Logan uses straightforward facts to prove his point.
It is, however, a stretch to say either one of them is Deceit's "opposite side". With that logic, Roman and Logan could be opposites: "Pragmatism and optimism aren't necessarily contradictory"(AoVD), and Patton and Logan can be opposites: Heart and Brain.
3. Remember, the "others" aren't defined by their contrast to the main sides. They were cast away because Thomas, unconsciously, saw them and went, that's not me. I don't want to be that.
Logan and Roman butt heads plenty of times throughout the whole show, but they are both accepted as a main side because Thomas thinks they both contribute good, albeit contradictory, things to him.
.....However I do think the rainbow sides theory is very plausible. :) They did make a point of giving each side a color. I'm guessing that one, or mayyyybe two dark sides are left. (orange, or pink and orange)
@kimothyinajar EXACTLY.
Thomas isn't "Good" because he loves his friends, nor "Bad" because he wants to go to the callback.
"The concepts of good and bad are arguably meaningless because we can assign any preferred characteristics to either one of them"(Logan, CLBG)
"I don't only speak in lies"(Deceit, SvS)
"You have to understand that life is not so... black and white"(Logan, DwIT)
Virgil is the embodiment of this: He was a "Dark Side", but he got accepted by Thomas. And he improved himself to be more open and cooperative- while still being himself (the entire point of Phases video). ....Which is ironic considering how desperately he wants to protect Thomas from the Dark Sides, knowing that Thomas will be very, very distressed in their presence.
THIS
Just a thought...
Am I the only one that thinks Patton and Deciet could've reached a compromise where Thomas went to both the callback and then the wedding? I mean, they never discuss at what time is the callback and the wedding. I think Thomas could've gone to the callback and then to the wedding without any problems, or he could've gone to the callback and missed part of the wedding and explained himself to MaryLee and Lee. I don't know, just a thought I wanted to get out of my head.
Because today is Li Syaoran’s Birthday, I decided to finally complete a painting I had sitting since Clear Card started. It took forever… but I’m satisfied with the result :)
