Matthew Leitch confirmed that was him lighting the cigarette on Twitter and Ross McCall confirmed to me that it was him with the cigarette in Normandy.
But why so many doubles? Where is Bill? Joe Toye? Babe? Luz? Why not doubles of Liebgott? So many questions HBO…
Everywhere you look up info about Joseph Liebgott, it says his family came from Austria, that he spoke German with an Austrian dialect, etc.
I assumed this to be true and so I was surprised when, one day, while researching for my Was Liebgott Actually Jewish post, I came across a massive amount of records that contradicted this
Here’s what I discovered...
Joe Liebgott’s family (his parents, both sets of grandparents, and all but one of his great-grandparents) all came from a village called Beresztócz.
At the time his family immigrated, it was in the former Kingdom of Hungary, right along the southern border of the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. (Currently it's part of Serbia, and the town is now called Banatski Brestovac.)
The least confusing map of Austro-Hungarian Empire that I could find (left) and a present-day map (right)
So his family was from the Kingdom of Hungary?
Well, sort of... The historical geography of the region is particularly bonkers (See timeline at the end of the post)
The region they were from didn’t technically become part of the Kingdom of Hungary until 1873. Prior to that, it was essentially a miscellaneous Habsburg territory squeezed in along the southern border as a buffer against the Ottoman Empire, and, later, Serbia. (See timeline below)
HOWEVER, all four of his grandparents (who were all born before their village technically became part of the Kingdom of Hungary) still reported their place of birth as Hungary, AND they all reported their parents' place(s) of birth as Hungary, too.
Then why does everyone say he was from Austria?
Good question! It likely has something to do with this:
Once Joe’s parents were in their own household, starting with the 1920 census, they both started listing their place of birth as Austria, instead of Hungary.
This seems like an odd move, considering that their place of birth/origin is listed as Hungary or Yugoslavia in all their families’ immigration/transportation documentation, all their previous census data, and, later, in both of their Petitions for Naturalization in 1942, as well as in a 1960 newspaper article interviewing Joseph Liebgott Sr.
Aside from the census data for their household and for one of Joe's Sr's brothers, literally everyone else on both sides of the family has consistently answered that they were from Hungary/Yugoslavia.
So, perhaps, for reasons we can only speculate, they preferred to say they were from Austria, instead of Hungary? This could have made it likely that people who spoke with Joe &/or his descendants would've been told that his family was from Austria? (Which would then appear to be confirmed by his parent's household's census data.)
But what if they said they were Austrian because their ancestors came from Austria?
We can't rule it out because records are limited, but, as far as I can tell, all of his ancestors from at least 1800 onward seems to have been born and lived in Beresztócz. Everything before 1800 is a mystery (aside from his maternal grandma's parents family- they all came from Czech Silesia on one side).
But considering that they all settled in a German community, spoke German, and Joe Liebgott Sr. said their family was German, it is most likely that his ancestors were from Germany, rather than Austria/the Austrian Empire.
So if he didn't speak German with an Austrian dialect, what was his dialect?
Well, all the evidence suggests beyond a shadow of a doubt that his family/ancestors were Danube Swabians (see Sources section). Sadly, there are no recordings of him speaking German for us to analyze the specifics of his dialect, but here's an general overview of the German dialect(s) of Danube Swabians:
"To the ear of a Standard German speaker, the Danube Swabian dialect sounds like what it is: a mix of southwestern German dialects from the 18th century with many strange words from other languages. Due to relative isolation and differing proximity to nearby German speakers, the language varies considerably, with speakers able to distinguish inhabitants of neighboring villages by the words they use for certain things, or by how many (usually Hungarian) loanwords they employ." (x)
SIDENOTE: JOE'S GERMAN HERITAGE
Many members of Easy Company have observed that Liebgott seemed to particularly harbor hatred towards the Germans/the Nazis- a fact which his surviving family members apparently found quite surprising, given their father/grandfather's bigoted beliefs, and his family's German heritage (1).
As with his parents' reasons for choosing to say they were from Austria instead of Hungary, we can really only speculate the cause of this discrepancy. (And while I have theories for both, this post is already quite long, and I want to stay focused on the facts.)
TLDR: WHERE WERE THEY FROM?
IN MY OPINION (spoken humbly as someone who wasted countless hours of their one wild precious life going down a rabbit hole to research this), the best/most accurate answer is:
They were (Germans) from the Kingdom of Hungary/the former Kingdom of Hungary
I’m curious what others think about all of this, and if anyone has any questions about any of it, I’m happy to answer them as best I can!
DISCLAIMER
This post is NOT an endorsement of questioning the semantics/validity of people’s claims of where they/their ancestors are from. (Nor is it an endorsement of the actual Joseph Liebgott, who was, according to his grandkids, a virulently racist bigot (1)
TIMELINE OF BERESZTÓCZ/BANATSKI BRESTOVAC
MILITARY FRONTIER ERA (1718-1873)
In 1716, the Habsburgs won the region back from the Ottomans. From 1718 to 1751, the region was part of Banat of Temeswar, a province of the Habsburg Monarchy (x). Around 1751, it was reorganized into a district called the Banat Military Frontier and was run under military administration (x). In 1778, most of the region was incorporated into the Kingdom of Hungary, but the lower part of the region, including Beresztócz remained in the Banat Military Frontier until about 1873.
During this time period:
Catholic German farmers were encouraged to colonize this region, and were permitted to retain their language and customs, etc. if they redeveloped the land (which had been trashed by endless warfare), living alongside the remaining local ethnic population (which, in the case of Beresztócz, was Serbs (x) (x)
Joe's ancestors settled in the region &/or the village of Beresztócz
Joe's great-great and great-grandparents were born
Towards the very end of this era, his grandparents were born
AUSTRIA-HUNGARY/KINGDOM OF HUNGARY (1873-1918)
Around 1873, they were officially incorporated into the Kingdom of Hungary (a.k.a. the Hungary part of Austria-Hungary)
During this time period:
Joe's grandparents grew up
Joe's parents, aunts, and uncles were born
Between 1906 and 1912, the Liebgott and Zimmermann families immigrated to the U.S.
Joe and his siblings were born (in the U.S.)
By 1912, everyone in Joe's immediate family (aside from his surviving great-grandparents) had already immigrated to the U.S.
KINGDOM OF YUGOSLAVIA (1918-1941)
The Austro-Hungarian Empire dissolved and the region became the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, a.k.a. The Kingdom of Yugoslavia (x)
WORLD WAR II (1941-1945)
During Nazi occupation, the region was renamed The Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia (x) Afterwards it became part of the Democratic Federal Yugoslavia (x)
YUGOSLAVIA(S) (1945-2006)
After WWII, Yugoslavia perpetrated an ethnic cleansing of the Danube Swabians (x)
From 1945 to 1992, it was part of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, a.k.a. Yugoslavia (x). After the fall of the Soviet Union, it became part of Serbia and Montenegro, a.k.a. Yugoslavia (x)
TODAY (2006- Present)
Beresztócz is now called Banatski Brestovac, and is in Serbia
SOURCES
(1) A Company of Heroes by Marcus Brotherton, chapter 10
Pre-World War I Migration Patterns of Banat Germans to North America- Introduction, Development of the Banat, The Migration Process
A detailed map of Torontál County
Danube Swabian History - Danube-Swabians.org
Danube Swabian History - DVHH.org
The Banat Villages
Danube Swabians Explained
Danube Swabians - Wikipedia
Danube Swabians - Language
"Our folks in the Banat spoke "schwowisch"
Podunavske Svabe: Danube Swabians (2011, 1h 12m) features tons of clips from decades-old interviews with Danube Swabians speaking their dialect(s)!
Genocide of the Ethnic Germans in Yugoslavia 1944 – 1948
Ancestry.com for genealogical info and documents. There are too many specific ones to list here, but the main documents I looked at were:
- Census Data from 1910-1950 (1950 is the latest available to public) of his parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles (all of whom had immigrated) 1910 through 1950 ask place of birth, and 1910-1930 additionally ask place of birth of parents
- WWI Draft cards and WWII “Old Man Draft” cards
- Immigration documentation- transportation, naturalization, etc.
- A newspaper article circa 1935 about the wedding anniversary of his grandparents Thaddeus and Barbara Liebgott (x)
- A newspaper article circa 1963 about Joseph Liebgott Sr. and his wedding anniversary (x)
A NOTE ABOUT BERESZTÓCZ
The village was usually called Beresztócz but sometimes is referred to as Banat-Brestowatz, or Bresztovacz. To confuse matters further, some of the family’s records also say they were from Torontál (the former county their village was within), or simply Banat/Bannat
If you want to learn more about the village, you should be warned that there were three different "Brestowatz" villages within Hungary populated by Danube Swabians, and they all go by multiple names (x).
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