Hi there! I was working on attempting to translate the Lament for Theoden (the one that goes "Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising" etc. etc.) into Quenya (for a project, ), but I am .... hmm Not Sure I did it right, at all?
So my question is this right? If not, do you know what would the best/correct translation be? (I used Parf Edhellen for most of the words, but I don't know if that information is needed or not-) Thank you so much!!
Attindello, huinello, anarórëo oryalanna
Nortanës lindala nu árë, utópala macil
Encaltanës estel, ar nu estel telenës;
Fíriello, sossello, Ambar-ortanello
úhepiello, coiviello, alcarello
Hi anon,
Thanks so much for your message! I’m sorry for taking a few days to respond 💖
Your translation is very good and I only have a few remarks/suggestions to make:
line one
Attindollo, huinello, anarórenna
I think attindello should be attindolo (from attindo doubt).
For to the day’s rising, you could probably go with anarórenna to the sunrise. That would result in a nice regular sentence structure with three case words!
line two
nortanës lírala áressë, túcala/sácala macil.
I’d translate singing as lírala (lir- to sing in the active participle).
For in the sun(light), I’d go with áressë based on the attested example auressë in (the) morning.
Unsheathing could probably be translated as túcala (from tuc- to draw) or sácala (from saca- to draw, pull; note that saca- can also mean to pursue, look for, search).
To be perfectly honest, I’m a bit unsure regarding the use of the active participle for singing and unsheathing, but I’m not sure what alternative options there could be.
line three
Encaltanës estel, ar as estel telenës;
I’d suggest as estel with hope, since in hope in this context is figurative and a bit tricky to translate. Another alternative could perhaps be to use the respective case to make esteles in hope (figurative).
line four
fíriello, sossello, Ambarello ortaina
I’d change the last part of this line and have ortaina lifted (passive participle of orta-) separate at the very end.
line five
úhepiello, coiviello, alcarenna.
I believe the best way to convey unto (long) glory would be to use the allative case on alcar > alcarenna to express movement towards.
Also, this is purely a question of personal taste and your method probably isn’t wrong, but I’d personally remove the diaeresis (¨) in nortanës, encaltanës and telenës. As far as I know, it’s mostly used to clarify that the e should be pronounced separately (if let’s say there’s a vowel next to it), but in the three cases I just mentioned that’s already obvious so I don’t think the diaeresis is needed ✨
Hey there! You did the "I do not believe this darkness will endure" translation for me (thanks btw) I was wondering if you knew how to write it in elvish or if you maybe knew where I could find that? Thanks so much your translation was a big help!!!
Hi again, thanks for the ask! ✨
Unfortunately I can’t write tengwar - only have some basic knowledge of another, less popular script called sarati. I do have a friend who used to do tengwar transcriptions online, but she’s been busy and hasn’t taken requests in a few years, and all the other pages I knew now seem to be inactive or inaccessible.
Perhaps you could try your hand with blogs that post content related to Tolkien’s languages and writing systems and/or tengwar, for instance:
tengwarmemes
lambendil
everythingquenya
tolkienlanguages
There’s also a good website out there which you can use to generate pretty great approximate transcriptions if you download tengwar fonts onto your computer. If you’d like to try that, you can message me and I’ll explain how it works in private! Or I could generate the transcription for you if you’d prefer 💕 Just keep in mind that it might not always be 100% accurate!
Here’s my Quenya translation of Faramir’s line “I do not believe this darkness will endure” for @obstinatebird 💞
Uan(yë) savë i huinë sina lemyuva.
I do not believe that this darkness will remain.
You’ve got several options for darkness - huinë is one of them, but you can replace it by any of the following words:
huinë: gloom, darkness, deep shadow, night shade; also used for shadow = Sauron, which I believe would be appropriate in this context
mornië: darkness
morë/mórë: dark, darkness, black, blackness, night
At the beginning of the sentence, you’re free to use either uan (shorter form) or uanyë (longer form).
Please also note that the verb sav- I used here means to believe in the sense of believ[ing] (that statements, reports, traditions, etc. are) true, accept[ing] as fact. It lends a particular meaning to the line which might fit in my opinion, in that it expresses Faramir’s refusal to accept any claim or assumption that darkness will endure.
Thank you so much for your answer! ❤️ 😊So if Angamahtar sounds OK, I think I should stick with the Quenya version of the name, as the Sindarin form turns out to be rather tricky... (I'm studying the rules of the word formation in Sindarin now, but I've still barely scratched the surface. From what I've read so far it really looks like that the "m" should probably change to "v", as @hellofeanor pointed out earlier.)
You’re very welcome! 🥰
We even have the attested names Angaráto Iron Champion (anga + aráto) and Angamando Iron Prison (anga + mando) which display precisely the structure you went for ✨
Unfortunately I’ve got very little knowledge of Sindarin, but my colleague who translates Sindarin on TheOneRing.com might be able to help you! You may be able to reach her through her website 💕
In Quenya, I would say Eleni úlanwë or Úlanwë eleni using the following words:
elen star
úlanwa infinite (unattested construction made of ú- expressing negation + lanwa within bounds, limited, finite, (well-)defined)
The first option (with the adjective after the noun) would be most appropriate if you’d like to emphasise the adjective and/or have the line sound more poetic; the second option is more standard ✨
Are there any Tolkien linguists who can help me out with a translation?
My brother wants a tattoo in elvish and I’m having some trouble because I’m not a particularly good linguist, and there’s a lot of extrapolation that has to be done, given that the verbs we need were never conjugated in the way in which we need them. I’ve been sifting through elfdict.com and the Tolkien Gateway page on Quenya grammar, but I could use some assistance.
What text does your brother want to have translated? Is he looking for a translation into Sindarin and/or Quenya, a transcription into tengwar characters, or both?
I can help with Quenya translations, but for Sindarin and tengwar I’ll have to point you towards other resources. I’m also the person in charge of the Quenya translation request thread on TORc, so your brother can always make a request there instead if he prefers.
I’ve made a resource page as well, in case you’d like some more suggestions. :)
Hello! What you do is so awesome! I'd love it if you could translate one of my favorite quotes from The Alchemist into Quenya. The full quote is "When each day is the same as the next, it’s because people fail to recognize the good things that happen in their lives every day that the sun rises." But I'm particularly interested in translating just the last part: "every day that the sun rises" Thanks in advance! xx
Hi there!
Thanks a lot for the nice feedback, it’s much appreciated. :)
Here’s my take on the beautiful passage you requested. Don’t hesitate if you have any questions about the translation! When possible, I tried to offer you several different alternatives separated by /slashes/; you can chose whichever one you prefer.
For “each day,” you have the option of combining ilya each with one of three words meaning day, or of choosing the compound ilaurë “each day” (taken from the attested word ilaurëa daily).
Vealta- is an old Qenya word for the verb resemble. Alternatively, you can replace it by the adverb ve like, similar if you want the phrase to say “When each day is like the next” instead. That option would be in more modern Quenya than the former.
árë: n. day, sunlight, warmth (especially of the sun)aurë: n. sunlight, day, day (of light), a day of special meaning or festivalarya: n. twelve hours, day
nas i castan i queni ua tunta i márë/alimë/alyë engwi/nati yar marta coivientais/cuilentais
it’s because (lit. for the reason that) people don’t see the good things that happen in their lives
tunta-: v. see, notice, perceivemára: adj. good, proper; useful, fit, good (of things)alima: adj. fair, goodalya: adj. fair, good; prosperous, rich, abundant, blessed
The nasal-infixed form of KHAT would be *hanta- leading to *hantalë for "flinging," but there's a conflict there with hanta- "to thank." I think your workarounds were the way to go! Love reading this blog, keep it up! :)
Thank you so much for your correction and your support! :)
Would you mind explaining in more detail how nasal infliction usually works in Quenya, or give me a source I can look up? I wasn’t able to find any proper info during my research for this request and I’m really intrigued. :)
Aiya ata! Got another problem for you; this time literally. The word "problem" (or "obstacle") is terribly useful but not glossed in any of my Quenya wordlists (I use the stuff found at the Ardalambion index), or anywhere close to it. After a few hours of pondering, and the Wiktionary etymology of "problem", I came up with "opohetië" - opo "before" + het "to fling" + -ië (abstract noun suffix). Mana sanwelyar?
Hi again! :)
I really like the idea of “before + to fling” to follow the word’s etymology.
To my knowledge, the Quenya verb for to fling is hat- (root KHAT). I’d prefer not to use -ië because I understand it’s mostly used to derive abstract nouns from adjectives. Instead, I’d suggest using -lë, which “is typically used to derive verbal nouns” (x). Fauskanger says that:
In the case of basic stems ending in a consonant, the ending -lë may be added to a nasal-infixed form of them. (x)
I’m uncertain what Fauskanger means by “nasal-infixed form,” but I believe that this would mean tl > lt in this case, thus opohaltë.
I also like to create new words by paraphrasing. For example:
An [patalvë/vantalvë] {estelenen/astarenen/voronwenen}, lá cennen.
For [we walk] {by faith}, not by sight.
pata- to walk
vanta- to walk
estel hope, trust, faith
astar faith, loyalty (not belief)
voronwë steadfastness, loyalty, faithfulness
I tried to indicate clearly when you have several choices for how to translate a sentence part. :) To convey by, I used the instrumental case which denotes the means through which an action is carried.
Aiya! I was wondering if you had seen this translation before, or if I could get your opinion on it: 'onotil' for the modern equivalent of 'computer'. This would be the verb onot, "to count up", which surprisingly mirrors the same form as the Latin derivation of "computer": com- (together) and putare (to reckon), versus Quenya o- (together) and not (to reckon). The only thing needed was to add the impersonal agental suffix -il, equivalent to English -er. What do you think? Love your tumblr! :)
Aiya meldonya!
Thank you so much for your nice words! :)
I’ve never encountered the word onotil before, but I do think it’s a nice way to translate computer into Quenya since the -il suffix is attested in similar constructions with verbs:
Siril rivulet from sir- to flow
Sicil dagger, knife from SIK- (probably a verb root meaning to cut or something similar)
Tecil pen from TEK- to write
Another interesting alternative (found here) is
nonwa "computer" (lit. “implement for reckoning”); derived from the stem NOT by adding ending -ma; CE *notmâ becomes nonwa in Q
if you took nolwë and wanted to put -ndil on the end, would it be Nolwendil, or something else? Would there be options? The existence of names like Nolondil confuses my limited knowledge. Also, for nolwë + ndil, where would the stress be?
Hi! :)
Yes: nolwë wisdom, secret lore + -ndil would be Nolwendil “Lover of Wisdom” according to standard rules.
-ndil: basic ending translated as -friend, -lover, Friend of… or Lover of… and indicating disinterested devotion towards something or someone.
-dil: variant of -ndil, presumably used to facilitate the combination of the suffix with the word it’s attached to. In Amandil (Aman + -dil), for instance, it allows to not end up with the non-permitted construction Amanndil. The example Eärendil (ëar sea + -e- + -ndil) shows a connecting vowel may also be added between the noun and the suffix so as not to break rules of Quenya phonology. Eärendil, in my understanding, could just as well have been Eärdil (ëar + -dil), so it seems like Tolkien explored different ways of solving impossible consonant combinations. I’m not sure whether systematic rules exist in that regard.
-(n)dilmë: the distinctively feminine version of the suffix. It’s unclear whether it makes -(n)dil specifically masculine, or simply gender neutral.
In light of that information, perhaps Nolwedil would also be correct, though I’d go with Nolwendil since it’s probably the most standard alternative. If you want the word to be clearly feminine, then it would be Nolwendilmë.
Nolondil follows the rules I previously mentioned. The initial element, as noted by Helge Fauskanger, is a variant of nólë lore, knowledge, or “nolo- reflecting the root ÑGOL having to do with knowledge.” The ending -ndil is added directly to that.
Here are further examples which respect the rules:
Elendil: elen star + -dil = Star-friend
Vardilmë: contraction Var(da) + -dilmë = Friend of Varda
Mámandil: máma sheep + -ndil = Sheep-friend
In Nolwendil (which I’d divide as nol-wen-dil), the stress would be on the second syllable, so around the e. The rule with Quenya words that have three syllables is that the stress falls on the second-to-last syllable if the latter is long (which it is, since e is followed by the consonant cluster nd).
I hope this answers all your questions! :) Please feel free to ask if something is still unclear for you.
Weird question, but I want to make a new last name for when we get married. I want it to start with M if possible, and perhaps to mean something like 'love overcomes struggles/obstacles' or 'love overcomes all'. I'm aware that's not how last names work there, but I figure it'd be like a gender neutral first name there? If that's a thing? That we'd use as our last name. I also know love would start with m which should help, but I know just enough to know I don't know the grammar.
Hi! :)
I must admit I pondered over this request a long time.
As far as I know, a single Quenya name is usually in one word. I can see no way of encompassing “love overcomes struggles/obstacles” or “love overcomes all” into one word ― especially considering that a Quenya noun typically describes the person in some way, while the name you’re asking for defines love.
One could try to condense the meaning you want into something like:
Melmendil
Lover/Friend of Love
The suffix -ndil is usually attached to animate nouns, but using it in this context would make love into a sacred entity, which goes in the sense of your requested phrases.
One could also depart from Quenya naming traditions and use a descriptive phrase such as Love Almighty:
Melmë Ilmelehta Melmë Ilmeletya
I’m going to tag this response so that Quenya students might see it in the appropriate tags and feel free to give their ideas/input. :)
Hi! I was wondering if you can help me translate, for I only know Sindarin (only a little of Quenya) "They say that love is forever, your forever is all that I need" please and thank you!! :)
Hi :)
Sure thing!
Quetintë/Quetiltë i melmë tennoio, oialetya/oiretya ilya merinyë.
They say that love (is) forever, your everlasting (is) all (that) I desire.
I used the intimate form of your since I figured the addressee must have a close relationship to the speaker. :) As for the words separated by /slashes/, they mean the same thing: you can pick whichever alternative you like best.
Hey there! Thank you for the amazing work, you are truly a gift to the Tolkien world :) I also wanted to ask, just out of curiousity, what Galadriel's Prologue would be in Quenya? I know we have it in Sindarin, but I think it would be interesting to see it in another Elvish language :D Of course, I understand if you have more important things to translate, I just thought it would be interesting to see. I hope you have a great day! :)
Hey :)
Thank you so much for your message, you’re very kind! :D
I unfortunately don’t think I have time to translate the entire prologue at the moment, because I’m incredibly busy with the end of my university semester, but I did manage to work a bit on the beginning. :) I’ll definitely continue on the rest of the prologue as soon as I can, it’s a good idea!
The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
Here’s what I came up with:
Ambar ahina/virina. Felinyes i nenessë. Felinyes i cemenessë. Nolinyes i vistassë. Olë ya néya/nëa né vanwa, an úquen sí [súya/ëa] ye enyalis.
The world (is) changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was (is) lost, for nobody now [breathes/exists] who remembers it.
When two words are separated by a /slash/, it means they’re two different options for the same English word. The only case in which the meaning differs is with súya breathes and ëa exists. :)
Hello there! Wow you do such great work! I'm really new to The language and I love it. I was just wondering how you learned all this great stuff? Also if you could translate "So let it be written. So let it be done." Thank you for everything.
Hi! :)
Thank you so much for your lovely message, you’re very kind. c: I’m glad that you’ve started learning Quenya: it’s such a fascinating language, and making oneself familiar with it is a fantastic way to get closer to Tolkien and his works.
I posted here a list of resources which I use(d) myself and warmly recommend. Personally, I mostly learnt the basics of Quenya through the Ardalambion course. It’s a very comprehensive, helpful and widely-respected summary of Quenya grammar; just be aware that it’s more than ten years old and, therefore, not entirely up-to-date. Other than that, I suggest to all Quenya learners to be critical about the information they read and to try to take as many sources as possible into account, and also to attempt to engage with the material coming directly from Tolkien himself. :)
If you have any more questions or comments, don’t hesitate to write me another message!
As for the translation you’re asking for, here’s my take on it:
Sië nai nauvas técina, sië nai nauvas carna. Thus may it be written, thus may it be done.
