Just a few final comments since you’re mocking and insulting me and ridiculing everything I say.
ad 1) and 2) I wasn’t aware that other people have stated exactly the same points as I did and that you responded to all of them. I’m sorry but I definitely haven’t seen those discussions. If I had known I most certainly wouldn’t have written you. So I still don’t know what you think about the numerous things that just don’t add up in my opinion. But you don’t want to discuss this subject with me, so I won’t ask again. I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this matter.
I’m confused about why you have to mock me for writing several hundred words, especially since you always write lengthy answers. It’s obviously a subject I’m interested in and I thought we could talk about it since I was under the impression that you like to discuss all things Sam, and not because I think I’m “different” or “special” or because of my “flawless logic” or because I “know better” or because I’m making some “grand revelation” or because I wanted to convince you of anything. Like I said in my original message I just wanted to share a few thoughts.
ad 3) That was my whole point about the comment Dean made. It’s funny how in this fandom Dean’s word is enough proof just in certain discussions. What Kripke and Kennedy said is still true though.
ad 4) I’m aware that Becky didn’t summon her crossroad demon. That’s why I wrote:
“It seems like the demons put more effort into cases now where they approach their potential clients on their own than in those where they are summoned.”
ad 5) I was talking about canon only. And not what might have happened while we weren’t looking. Like I said before if the writers wanted us to believe that soulless!Sam was interested in guys, why not just show us, like by making the waitress Sam checked out and flirted with a waiter?
ad 6) Of course I don’t believe that Sam would shoot random people and I’m aware that soulless!Sam is not the same as soulful!Sam. But that was my whole point. If soulful!Sam is into guys but just usually hides it to the point where no one (or at least not most viewers) would ever suspect it, why would soulless!Sam bother to keep up the charade?
ad 7) I don’t get your point? By just saying “someone”, Sam boasted about having “dated someone bendy” without giving any other details away. So Dean couldn’t guess which girlfriend or fling Sam was referring to. That’s what I meant when I said Sam is respectful instead of going the sleazy Dean route stating exactly who he was talking about.
ad 8) I don’t think so, but that’s fine. I just wonder why the ever changing writers bother to drop all these non-conclusive hints for ten years but refuse to give us just one scene where Sam flirts with a guy.
ad 9) I’m aware that Jared said “guy or girl”. I’ve seen that gif set on my dash. But where did he say that he was talking about sexual relationships? I honestly thought he was talking about all people that were important to Sam, like Bobby and Ash and Pamela, and who had died, and not people that Sam had sex with. I thought he was talking about why Sam is reluctant to get attached to people, because he keeps losing everyone he cares about.
And no, I’m not one of these people. But even if Jared thinks that Sam should be bi, it wasn’t Kripke’s intention and so far the writers and directors haven’t given us any proof either. Jared also thought that Sam would look for Dean while Dean was in Purgatory and that Sam and nobody but Sam should save Dean from being a demon and both didn’t happen either.
ad 10) I still think Crowley was just pointing out their tight friendship and nothing more.
I’m aware that Sam tried to help Brady when he came back changed. That’s exactly what I wrote in my last message. I also know how long Sam and Jess have dated and that it wasn’t the whole time through college (the Pilot already settled that but I’m not telling you to go back and rewatch it). I don’t even know why you think I believe that and what that has to do with S/B. That still doesn’t change what I think about Sam and Brady’s relationship. If they truly were together, bringing Jess into the whole thing was unnecessary.
ad 11) I’d be glad if Sam could find some happiness with “someone” no matter if “guy or girl”. And I definitely wouldn’t try to explain it away. It just would surprise me since in my opinion there was no build-up and it would come out of the blue.
No, I’m not a heteronormative person. And yes, you’ve hurt my feelings, not with that assumption since you don’t know anything about me, but with the condescending way you’ve treated me. I hadn’t expected that at all.
I’m sorry my message has bothered you so much and hit a little close to home. I didn’t know anything about your personal life and I certainly didn’t intend on upsetting you. I simply wanted to discuss something with you, but I know now that it’s not possible and since I don’t enjoy hurting your feelings and also don’t like being mocked, I won’t write you again.
I don’t want you to write me again. You weren’t looking for a “discussion.” You were looking for a platform to air your views and try to set yourself up, at my expense, and you can go straight to Hell.
Did you seriously think that I was going to sit there and let you spout off without responding? Honestly? Do you honestly think that I was going to sit there and put up with your arrogance and condescension and just... what? Take it?
I’m glad it hurt your feelings, and I’d rub salt in the wounds if I had the time.
Seriously, think before you go into someone else’s in box. I’m not your fucking punching bag. If you have views, fine. Find your own space to parade them. I’m under no obligations to you.
Ever take a moment to think about how Dean’s killed the last person who appreciated Sam?
Death believed that it was such an honor to collect the soul of Sam Winchester that He showed up, in person, to be his reaper. Know who else was supposed to get that honor? God. And Sam Winchester.
Death took the time, as Sam lay dying, to console Sam. To tell him that he’d done well. To tell him that he’d impressed him.
Death urged Dean to kill Sam in 10.23 because he acknowledged, in ways that no one else would, that Sam would allow nothing to stop him from saving Dean. Death was the only one to acknowledge that Sam was capable of saving Dean even from being propelled into space by Death Himself.
And now Dean’s killed him. There is literally no one left who acknowledges Sam’s ability or competence.
We got Jody, but that is about it. And I think Cas acknowledges a little more that Sam is great. And Crowley I would argue finds him competent and able. Heck, I think Rowena thinks so too. More than Dean does, anyway.
I’m pretty sure my new cats think Sam’s more competent than Dean does, and they’ve never seen the show.
Jody likes Sam, they’re friends, but I don’t know that she gets everything that Sam is. He’s not the toot-his-own-horn type and it’s not like anyone she knows is going to tell her, you know? She’s seen him work.
I can’t think of a single instance where Sam has acknowledged Sam’s competence or goodness. All I can think of is Cas commenting on how Sam is the second biggest screw up but his life is still precious, and that just... well, it’s not the same. Oh, and how he wasn’t helping Sam for Sam’s sake but for Dean’s.
Rowena... I mean, she and Sam had great chemistry, don’t get me wrong, but I wouldn’t say that she acknowledged anything about Sam? She constantly harped on how he needed her help and reminded him of any shortcomings that she perceived. There’s no indication that she had the first clue about anything that Sam has done, or anything that he is.
Crowley... is a little harder to suss out. In earlier seasons it’s seemed that he’s at least had some faith in Sam. That seems to have been cancelled out by the time 9.23 came around, and was absolutely gone throughout s10.
NONE of the above, except for Jody, showed Sam any affection or appreciation.
Ever take a moment to think about how Dean’s killed the last person who appreciated Sam?
Death believed that it was such an honor to collect the soul of Sam Winchester that He showed up, in person, to be his reaper. Know who else was supposed to get that honor? God. And Sam Winchester.
Death took the time, as Sam lay dying, to console Sam. To tell him that he’d done well. To tell him that he’d impressed him.
Death urged Dean to kill Sam in 10.23 because he acknowledged, in ways that no one else would, that Sam would allow nothing to stop him from saving Dean. Death was the only one to acknowledge that Sam was capable of saving Dean even from being propelled into space by Death Himself.
And now Dean’s killed him. There is literally no one left who acknowledges Sam’s ability or competence.
The current Bitter Sam!Girls Club prompt is to share your top five Sam headcanons with the bittersamgirlclub. I’m sure that you can guess that this is right up my alley.
Without further ado:
5) Sam’s psychic abilities are still there.
Based on what, you ask? Well first, that’s rude. These are headcanons. Second: we’ve got no real reason to believe that they went away. After all, Sam had every reason to bury those things deep, deep down where they’d never see the light of day again. He did it in season 3, when they were merely hinted at (”Dream A Little Dream,”) but they came back in full force in season 4 with a few fun additions. We saw hints again in season 7, too, when his hallucination of Lucifer popped up with information Sam couldn’t have otherwise known (”Hello, Cruel World”) and when he had to have Marin lay out the salt circle (”The Born-Again Identity.”)
After all, Ruby said he didn’t need the feather to fly.
4) Sam hunted at Stanford.
Again, based on what? Well, frankly, his skills were too good when Dean showed up out of the blue for him to have been limiting himself to academics. Just working out at the gym wouldn’t give him that kind of reaction time, not after that long. Also, his weapons were very readily accessible and in good shape.
He might not have hunted much, or maybe he was just hunting as a defensive thing, but I’ll never believe that he didn’t keep a hand in.
3) Sam likes the Yankees.
Basis? Well, per s10 John Winchester hated the Yankees. Sam would have been going through his teen years, his most rebellious, when the Yankees were at their absolute best (the late 1990s.) We know (season 6) that Sam likes baseball, and those Yankee teams were a joy and a wonder to watch. The games would have been available nationwide on a fairly regular basis, and Sam would probably have gotten as much satisfaction from reading the box scores to his Yankee-hating father as he did from the games themselves.
Of course, this headcanon comes with the caveat that I am a huge Yankee fan. I stand by the logic, but still.
2) Sam no longer has a Heaven. It was destroyed when he threw himself into the Cage.
This one is a little bit more tenuous, but work with me for a moment. Assuming that his Heaven was actually real and not a ploy by Zachariah, something I’m not sold on btw, there was no reason for its continued existence after Sam’s death in Swan Song. While Dean’s eventual rescue after he went to Hell was foreordained, Sam’s was not. Sam was never intended to leave the Cage; he was always going to go to Hell no matter what. There was no reason for his Heaven to remain, so I don’t think that it did.
1) Oh come on, you already know this one.
Sam is bisexual.
I’ve talked at length about my reasons for this belief, and people have tried very earnestly to convince me that no, you can’t use this piece of evidence and no, you can’t use that piece of evidence and Dean says Sam is straight so he just is... but no. Sam is bi, no one has found any evidence to prove to the contrary, here’s a quick rundown of the evidence and if you want more go to my Sam and Sexuality tag.
- Prior relationship with a man
- Uses gender neutral phrasing when referring to prior relationships
- Doesn’t claim to be heterosexual
- Crossroads demons show up as men
- Actor refers specifically to Sam’s desire for male and female relationships.
Here’s a pretty great chance to be creative, guys!
Some of the most fun discussions I’ve been a part of on Tumblr have been Top 5 askbox games, so I thought it might be a good way to discuss Sam Winchester by having the bittersamgirlclub play this game with you guys.
But we don’t answer the Top 5 prompts, YOU DO! So you submit your responses to what is basically a reverse askbox “Top 5” game!
***The NEW prompt is: TOP 5 SAM HEADCANONS
Submissions must answer prompts specifically in reference to Sam in some way, like always. :)
Answers can be from any and all seasons!
Submit your answers to our submission box, or post to your own blog with the tag ”BSGC top 5 prompt” and @-tag this blog.
It can be a text post, meta, graphics, song, video, or WHATEVER. Be as simple or as creative as you’d like. :)
This prompt will be open for 2 weeks. I’ll post the responses as they are submitted/tagged and will make a round up post on the evening of Tuesday, July 21st.
Hi, I just wanted to say that whenever I get the email that you've posted a new work I immediately start smiling, because I know I can count on it being well written and doing justice to Sam. I can't wait to read the fic you just posted, and I just finished your second most recent fic, which was painful and awesome in all the right ways and which I loved :) I hope you have a great day!!!
I don’t want to be disrespectful, but I’ve often seen the “is Sam bi” debate, and the proof people offer, but to be honest I don’t think it holds up that well. I just wanted to share a few thoughts.
1) Crossroad Demons:
The crossroad demon Sam summoned while Dean was in Hell didn’t want to make a deal with Sam. So he didn’t even have to bother to appear in an alluring, female body. That’s why he was in male meat-suit, not because he wanted to entice Sam.
Hell has been a mess since Crowley took over, so much that people can walk in and out of it. So I don’t think that things we’ve learned many years ago about crossroad demons, are still exclusively true now. They’ve changed their tactics. Plus other lore has changed too. Werewolves, skinwalkers, reapers etc. are not the same entities we first met. I’m pretty sure we can chalk up all of that to the sloppy writing of Carver’s people, but still, there were lots of changes over the years.
We’ve seen crossroad demons take all kinds of approaches by now, like Becky’s demon who was her gay bestie. So it’s not only when they deal with children that they don’t take a sexual approach. By your logic Becky’s demon would have had to be a Sam-clone. But that would have distracted Becky and the demon’s tactic of being lonely Becky’s friend and slowly gaining her trust, worked better. So apparently, they do whatever they think will work best for the specific situation and it isn’t always sexual.
I also doubt that there are by now any demons left that would want to make deals with the Winchesters. The Winchesters have a reputation, even demons are afraid of them and avoid them, plus they know that there’d be no use in trying to fool them. They are not gullible civilians who just stumbled into the situation. The demons are aware that dealing with the Winchesters probably will result in their own death. I’m sure the tales of Winchesters torturing demons for information are well-known among them. And when they are aware that a Winchester is waiting for them, they know that their little tricks won’t work and that they will get into trouble. So like I’ve said before, the demons don’t even bother to get hot, female meat-suits.
Furthermore it seemed like the crossroad demon wearing Snooki had nothing to do with the Winchesters. Snooki was just the meat-suit the demon was currently using because she enjoyed the money and fame. And it also seemed like she was surprised to see them, and not like she had expected to see them at all. Her reaction was like “I’m in a devil’s trap, who put me in devil’s trap?” and then she turned around and was like “ugh, the Winchesters.” So that shows that the crossroad demon’s physical appearance when summoned might be random now in general since it seemed like she hadn’t even anticipated that she would be facing the Winchesters. It seems like the demons put more effort into cases now where they approach their potential clients on their own than in those where they are summoned.
So I think it’s either one of those options or a combination of both as for why the demon in Taxi Driver was male: Crossroad Demons just appear in their current meat-suit when summoned in general or they just don’t bother to change into something sexier when the Winchesters summon them, because they don’t want to make a deal with them anyway and know it would be pointless to try to fool them.
Also, if you think Sam is bi and found Brady attractive, wouldn’t it have made sense for the crossroad demon to be a hot, fit, blond guy? I doubt any of the viewers went “wow” when they saw the demon in Taxi Driver. Sam obviously doesn’t go after anything with a skirt on like Dean. Jessica, Sarah, Madison, the female bartender etc. were all exceptionally pretty and classy. If Sam would be interested in men at all, don’t you think he’d be into equally pretty guys? If we are supposed to think that Sam is bi, why not cast really good-looking guys as crossroad demons and make them act all seductively toward Sam instead of casting really average ones and letting them look indifferent and annoyed?
2) Sam/Brady:
Crowley called Brady Sam’s demon lover. That doesn’t prove anything. Crowley lies all the time and has also implied that Dean and Cas got it on. Do you believe him in that case too or the other characters who said stuff like Cas is Dean’s boyfriend? Crowley just loves to make such remarks and sexualize things in general. By your logic Sam/Dean, Dean/Cas, Sam/Cas and Dean/Benny are also canon because there was talk of them “stealing kisses”, “being boyfriends” and “breaking up”.
If Sam and Brady truly were together, why would Brady have bothered to introduce Sam to Jessica? I don’t doubt that Sam cared about Brady as friend. When Brady came back changed, Sam tried to help him, that’s canon. But imagine that they were together. Brady could have directly influenced Sam and manipulated him that much better, could have used all the things Sam shared with him in post-coital bliss against him. There would have been no need for Jess. And then when Dean came back, Azazel could have just gutted and burned the Brady on the ceiling. It would have resulted in the same, Sam joining Dean to avenge his lover’s death. But no, Brady had to introduce Sam to Jess, because Sam is straight.
3) Sam never stating that he is straight:
Usually straight guys don’t state that they are straight all time. They are secure in their sexuality and if somebody thinks they are gay, they just let it slide, because it doesn’t bother them. Do you know which guys have to state it all the time? The ones who are over-compensating.
Sam just grins or calmly corrects people’s assumptions, while Dean gets flustered, needs to assure everybody that he is straight and even discusses with Sam why people think he’s gay or when a gay guy hits on him. I never thought anything about Dean’s behavior either, he just likes to keep up his macho persona and is afraid of being perceived as what he believes to be “weak”, but if you really want to analyze something, I think Dean’s reactions, statements and behavior throughout the years are far more interesting and provide a lot more material.
I don’t think it’s suspicious that Sam hasn’t shouted that he is straight from the rooftops yet. Usually characters don’t state their sexual orientation. If sexual orientation is discussed it usually leads to the revelation, that a character the viewers thought is straight, is actually gay. But SPN isn’t a soap. Plus, why state it, when it’s already shown? In one TV show there were twins, a girl and a guy, and they showed the viewer that the guy is gay by letting him check out another guy. He only ever showed interest in males as long as he was on the show. He never once said the sentence “I am gay” yet everybody accepted that he is gay. Sam has only ever shown interest in women. Why not accept that he is straight?
Plus the plot never called for Sam to set the record straight other than in Bugs and Playthings. Dean is the one being written into such situations, was the one being called pretty by a vampire etc. You out of all people have to be aware of how little Sam gets to interact with other characters. And it’s also typical for the show that Dean is the one everybody hits on and Sam gets ignored.
Also, Dean is the one with the stupid comebacks like “I’m awfully flattered” when he’s told to get on his knees, or “you’re a handsome devil, but I don’t swing that way” when he’s told to get out of the car. Or the worst of all, the “squeal like a pig trouble” reference where Dean brought male rape into a conversation with a Sheriff. Dean sexualizes situations and says such things although there’s no need for it. That’s why we’ve got so many “confirmations” that Dean is straight. It would be weird and out of character if Sam suddenly started to remind everybody of his sexual orientation in such an odd fashion.
4) Soulless!Sam:
But there’s enough canon evidence of Sam being straight anyway. And the biggest point that people ignore are Soulless!Sam sexual endeavors. Soulless!Sam didn’t have any morals to hold him back, he had lots of casual sex, “loud and athletic conversations” with college girls and gave sex workers “new high points” and would have had even more sex if Dean hadn’t interfered. And despite all of that, he never hooked up with a guy.
Soulless!Sam wouldn’t have cared. I doubt soulful!Sam would be ashamed of being bi and try to hide it. So I think it’s weird that if Sam were truly bi, we’ve never seen him flirt with a guy. At least in the early seasons when Sam still might have thought he deserves some happiness. I know that he doesn’t get much screen time and that Dean is the one who flirts and SPN is really not about romance.
But they made a point out of showing how promiscuous soulless!Sam was. If Sam were truly bi, why didn’t they just show us a male sex worker? Or let one of the hook ups from Unforgiven be a guy? If the writers are really trying to communicate that Sam is bi, why not in a whole decade, let a guy smile at Sam in a flirty way and let Sam smile back? Just one or two little scenes that are actual proof not just wishful thinking?
4) Sam using neutral terms:
Sam just used neutral terms when talking about his conquests because other than Dean he respects these women. Dean just goes ahead and calls them “skanks” and dishes out details, Sam protects their privacy and shows them some respect by keeping things as vague as possible.
5) Others confirming that Sam is straight:
I’m sure every casual viewer would agree that Sam is straight. I think lots of people on here thought so too, but they like slash ships and of course believing that Sam is bi suits them and their headcanons. Sam may not have stated that he is straight, others have confirmed that Sam is though.
People seem to believe everything Dean says is true. He says he’s straight, people believe it. But Dean also said Sam is straight in Jus in Bello. So why not believe that?
Then there’s the famous Eric Kripke quote, where he said he loves to write about straight guys with tight relationships and unresolved sexual tension. Those straight guys he was talking about are Dean AND Sam. Chad Kennedy also said the leads on SPN are not bi. Sam is still a lead.
I’m not obsessed with straight!Sam like you suggested your anon is, I’m just not convinced by all the things I’ve seen people list as evidence. So I decided to share my thoughts, I hope that’s okay:)
So, in response:
1) You’re “not obsessed with straight!Sam” but you a) took the time to write a several hundred page “refutation” (we’ll come back to that) in the hopes of... what? Trying to convince me that Sam is straight even though I’ve made it very clear that I think there’s no canon basis for this point of view? And the address you’ve used comes out as Sam (isstraight@gmail). But you’re “not obsessed.” ‘Kay.
2) You’re not saying anything that anyone else hasn’t said, but their refutations were proved baseless by canon and logic. You think you’re different? Aren’t you special!
3) Are you seriously going with “Dean said Sam is straight in Jus in Bello, so why not believe that?” Here’s the thing. My sister would tell you that I’m straight, and she’d be full of shit. That argument makes even less sense than canon Destiel.
4) Your ~flawless logic~ about Becky’s demon ignores one very glaring, and very important fact. Becky didn’t summon a crossroads demon. She didn’t know she was dealing with a crossroads demon; it had to be proved to her. Go back and watch that episode again; it’s dreadful. Both Crowley, who fucking ruled over the crossroads demons, and Dean, who has spent a lot of time and energy dealing with demons, confirmed the role of attraction in summoned crossroads demons. In Dean’s case, this was in a case with Sam.
But you know better.
5) They didn’t show Soulless!Sam hooking up with a guy. They didn’t show him turning guys down either, so by your own frankly nebulous logic Soulless!Sam’s televised sexual history can’t be used to wave your magic hetero wand and make him straight.
6) Soulless!Sam was a very different character than Sam. Or do you honestly believe that Sam would be amenable to shooting random people to take away an enemy’s leverage?
7) Using gender neutral terms for his past partners was not part of being respectful or leaving out details? In fact it was part of including details? Please go back and rewatch 9.13.
8) Seriously? “The plot never called for Sam to set the record straight, Dean got those lines?” That’s not a legitimate argument for Sam’s sexuality. There’s no reason that Sam couldn’t have responded with “we’re straight,” or “I’m straight,” instead of the lines he did. Those lines were chosen for a reason and attributed to him for a reason.
9) Jared, when referring to the relationships Sam sought, specifically said “guy or girl.” Or are you one of those people who doesn’t think the actors who’ve been playing their roles for 10 years know their parts?
10) Crowley does like to tease the boys about relationships, and I’ve addressed this every time I’ve brought up Sam/Brady in the past. It’s the reaction to his commentary about Sam/Brady that’s important, and the way Crowley chose to bring it up - not teasingly, but as a matter of import. Go back and rewatch “The Devil You Know” and “Two Minutes To Midnight,” paying special attention to those interactions.
Furthermore, on the Sam/Brady line, Sam didn’t start dating Jessica until after the middle of their sophomore year. This is after Brady’s possession - when Sam tried to help him, which was unsuccessful (again, go back and rewatch “The Devil You Know.”) Do you really think that Sam and Jess were together all through college? Do you really think that people who broke up never stay friends after? That’s sad for you. I’ve stood up in the weddings of people I used to date, and they’ve stood up in mine.
11) You strike me as an incredibly heteronormative person. I suppose that if Sam were to wear a great big “I’m Bisexual” tee shirt and perform oral sex on a man on screen - which wouldn’t pass the censors - you might allow for it, although given your tenuous arguments I’m guessing you’d try to explain it away. I’m kind of repulsed. Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but if you couldn’t tell by item # 3 above this is hitting a little close to home.
I’m also getting VERY bored with saying the same EXACT things to people who think they’re making some grand revelation. These things have all been said before; they were wrong then (see above) and they’re factually wrong now.
One quick note I want to make is about Crowley being a crossroads demon. He made that one guy uncomfortable, and probably a few more. And when Bela made her deal, the demon was in a little girl. This doesn't really count at all but Mary's deal was with her father. It's all a matter of circumstance and the power of the demon I think. Also, women would seem more likely to be appointed for the grunt work of crossroads. I obviously wouldn't know, but those are some thoughts to put out there.
I’m not sure what this is exactly in reference to. I’m going to guess that it’s got something to do with Sam and sexuality?
1) Demons possess people. They seem to have preferences, but a crossroads demon could conceivably possess someone of any gender.
In Bela’s case, someone suffering from a recent sexual trauma and a CHILD to boot, I don’t imagine that even a crossroads demon is going to bring attraction into the mix.
In Mary’s case she wasn’t dealing with a crossroads demon. She was dealing with Azazel, ruler of Hell.
2) The banker’s case was initially handled using a female crossroads demon. He specifically stated that he had been dealing with a woman, but Crowley felt that the deal was too important to deal with a subordinate.
3) While we’re on the subject, the notion of attraction being part of a crossroads demon’s arsenal in luring a mark in to make a deal - not the whole thing, but part - has been mentioned twice. Once by the banker in the above mentioned episode, and once by Dean in “Taxi Driver” when Sam summoned a crossroads demon who, once again, turned up in a male body. It was the second time that Sam had summoned a crossroads demon who showed up in a male body, the first time that he had done so in front of Dean, and Dean saw fit to comment about the gender.
4) Are you seriously going with “women are more likely to be…”
5) Now I’m kind of going out on a limb here, and I’m sorry if I’m not understanding where you’re coming from on this. I know that the ask box has a character limit and everything. I can only assume that you’re on this because you’re trying to convince me either that we can’t use the multiple crossroads demons that Sam has summoned who have turned up in male bodies as evidence for his being part of the MOGAI community. (Other people have tried. They have failed.)
Why is Sam’s (very, very questionable) heterosexuality so very important to you?
We’ve got a guy here who has never stated, in canon, that his sexual interest is limited to women. He uses gender neutral terms when referring to his own sexual and romantic past, Crowley’s stated that he had a relationship with a man, we’ve got the issue with the crossroads demons, he’s never claimed to be heterosexual, but we’ve got people falling all over themselves screaming “BUT SAM IS STRAIGHT!”
White male asshole?the fuck got to do the race with him being an asshole?smh
he’s a white straight male, he could literally not be more privileged, i mean, literally he is at the very top of privilege..
the thing is everyone could become a victim of identity theft. Filing a police report yourself is literally all you can do. I mean, he could just do that without being such a jerk to a company on twitter?
Yeah he should just sit there and meekly accept his fate. He should be GRATEFUL that he was victimized, damn it.
1) Verizon did drop the ball on this. I’ve had to go deal with starting an account and making account changes with them, it’s a hassle and there are verification procedures. Apparently they weren’t followed. But no, sure, he should ABSOLUTELY just shut up about the fact that the company dropped the ball.
2) So when other people go to make decisions about their cell phone providers, they should just... not be aware that Verizon has this issue, is that it?
You’re looking for reasons to hate him. If you find him so objectionable, just don’t follow him. JFC.
#which is why I don't ship wincest Don't you ship sam/ruby? I wouldn't throw stones if I were you.
Firstly, no stones were throne. My tag literally says my shipping preference, which is not Wincest, because I think Sam deserves to be treated better than how Dean treats him. I’m not throwing stones at anyone who does ship it and I don’t care if others do. It just isn’t my preference for Sam.
Secondly, I’ve talked about this many times, but I super acknowledge how shitty and fucked up that ship is. I’ve clarified over and over that I do not ship (as in the verb, actively wanting them to be together) them even though I do enjoy the ship (noun, seeing them together because it’s hot af) when it shows up on my dash. Like… idk, I see these things as two very different things because my first reaction to seeing gifsets is HNNNNNG, and then I immediately throw myself in the garbage because I hate it so much in my brain, so I feel guilty for ever enjoying it.
Separating these two things is really important, I think, and I make sure I do this every time I reblog a Sam/Ruby anything. Enjoying a problematic ship means you have to acknowledge that it’s problematic, which I do.
When I actually ship Sam with anyone (as in want him to be with someone, apposed to just enjoying the aesthetic), it’s legit because I want him to be with someone who makes him feel happy and safe and valued. So call that my 98% and my 2% can be the visceral reaction my body has to Sam x Ruby that my mind rejects.
Who is Anon to tell you that you can’t enjoy a sexy CANON scene you saw on screen anyway?
I mean yes, Sam x Ruby was problematic as hell. (Heh.) But it still happened. Does Anon want you to just... not watch s4 because something problematic happened? Seriously? Might as well stop watching the show entirely, then. Maybe pretend it didn’t happen because it turned out to be a con?
Hey there! So Jared’s birthday is coming up and I thought this was a perfect time to have an appreciation week for him. Also I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like this done for him which is a shame because he deserves so much love!
The love week will go from Monday, July 13th to his birthday on Sunday, July 19th. Tag anything you make with #jaredloveweek so we can all see and reblog them
You’re all welcome to participate in this! You can make gifs, edits, graphics, text posts, poems, anything just as long as you show your great love for Jared :3
Here are the daily themes:
Monday, July 13th - Jared Padalecki + Family
Tuesday, July 14th - Jared Padalecki + Co-stars
Wednesday, July 15th - Jared Padalecki + Beanies
Thursday, July 16th - Jared Padalecki + Social Media
Friday, July 17th - Jared Padalecki + Hair
Saturday, July 18th - Jared Padalecki + Conventions
Sunday, July 19th - Jared Padalecki + Your Choice
Though it’s not required to participate, it would be really nice if you could reblog this post to help spread the word
So that’s it. I hope to see you guys participate and spread the love for the amazing Jared Padalecki! ♥ ♥ ♥
Hey, does it ever just ... disturb you how people tend to romanticize things that are actually really, really bad? Like, after Brother's Keeper, I kept seeing all these flowery posts about Sam and Dean's Epic Love, and I'm kind of going ... UH, NO. What is actually happening is Sam is ONCE AGAIN prepared to give up his life for the benefit of Dean and the world, and what makes it really sting is, this time, he's doing it to clean up Dean's own mess. It's not beautiful. It's horrifying.
I think about this a lot…
I mean, first of all, it was Sam and Dean’s love that saved the world, or more properly Sam’s love for Dean that allowed Sam to save the world. So a lot of us have got it in our heads - and I’ve been guilty of this at times - that it’s this beautiful and epic tale of brotherly love and perfection with no flaws or ugly aspects to it, and to be honest I don’t think anyone would ever want to watch that past the age of like six. Yeah, Sam’s love for Dean let him overcome Lucifer. We can’t forget that.
But we can’t let that stop us from thinking sensibly and logically. Was it @pocochina or sillierthanasillylaugh who pointed out that the scene in My Brother’s Keeper was actually a staged, fake execution? Assuming that Dean never intended to kill Sam - and if he’d intended to kill Sam and then changed his mind, they’d show that as they did with Sam taking control back from Lucifer in Swan Song - he put Sam through that whole charade, made him believe that his brother was going to execute him just because he was going to do what Dean wanted him to do while Dean was in Purgatory - rescue Dean.
Mock executions are a form of torture. I’m not making this up, they’re used all over the world to break down an inmate’s resistance and make them more receptive. And Dean knowingly did that to his own brother. This isn’t something to hold up as something glittering and shining, an example of Brotherly Love That Breaks Through All Darkness. This is torture. This counts as war crimes. If this happened to you (and someone found out about it), the perpetrator would get a visit to The Hague.
The goalpost shifting, that’s another one. It doesn’t matter what Sam does, he cannot win, because the desired outcome has suddenly changed without his being informed. Or the desired outcome - as in, “oh, you can just chain me up in here” - is untenable.
The idea of wanting one’s sibling to be so ground down that he cannot imagine a life in which he has hopes, goals or dreams of his own - no longer has hobbies outside of you, no longer approaches potential romantic or sexual partners, no longer expresses joy or pleasure - has become romanticized. That person, the person who wanted that, is being held up as a hero, as an example to follow, and I’m kind of horrified.
At the same time, I mean, it was made very clear to us from the beginning that this was not a Shining Happy Family. I don’t want to make it seem like I’m standing up in some pulpit screaming “You can’t watch this show, it shows a terrible representation of family life!” No, it’s not like that.
Like I said at the outset, Sam’s love for Dean let him save the world. Sam’s love let him overcome a terrible attack that shattered his psyche, so he wouldn’t leave his brother alone. Sam so loved his brother that he was willing to bow his head and die to clean up Dean’s mess. That shouldn’t be romanticized, but it should be acknowledged. It’s ugly and it’s twisted and it’s seriously screwed up - it’s not what I’d want for myself, for my daughter, for anyone I know - but it makes for great fiction.
Have you always hated Dean as a character (or, at least, strongly disliked...) or was that something that developed more with time? I don't know how long you've been watching the show, maybe just a couple years, maybe since the beginning... just wondering if the issues you have with him now have always been there, or are they new-ish developments?
When the show started I was uncomfortable with some aspects of his character - I didn’t think that he treated Sam as well as he thought he did. But I didn’t hate him, and I made an active effort to conform my way of thinking to the “aww… BRUDDERS” standard. Sam loves him, after all, and Sam is the reason I watch the show. (Full disclaimer: my reasons for watching, in order of importance: Sam, brothers, interesting folkloric plots.) The abusive traits that have always been present were subtle, and easy to overlook, and were easily masked by funny one-liners and the Single Man Tear or whatever.
After Dean crammed an angel into his brother, using deceit, knowing and openly acknowledging that this was something that his brother would never, ever want and that he would prefer to be dead than to have his body, mind and soul taken away yet again by an outside entity - yes, I hated him.
And then, after that, I sat down and re-watched the series. And I saw a LOT of signs that I’d purposefully overlooked before. He’s a shit brother. He’s an abuser who will stop at nothing to have control over his brother, regardless of what is in that brother’s actual best interests. Once I started watching while thinking more critically, instead of getting distracted by the pretty and swallowing the narrative as presented by Dean, I couldn’t ignore what was being shown the whole time.
(Also, if this is Laura, sorry for the spoilers.)
EDIT: Please don’t take this as a knock against Jensen; I’m very fond of Jensen. He’s a fine actor and shares my defensive love of over-height chestnut-haired actors married to petite beautiful women.
(1) I feel like that gifset of Dean from "Southern Comfort" followed by all those times Sam was an awesome brother is a perfect example of twisting a scene to prove your point. Dean was possessed by a supernatural creature in that scene, you can't blame him for saying those things unless you're also willing to blame Sam for the things he said in "Asylum" and "Sex & Violence" (which people have tried to do, and it's ridiculous).
(2) Sam is still hurt by Dean’s words, of course, and I feel bad for him; just like even though Dean knew Sam would never try to kill him in “Asylum” or say such cruel things, it still hurt. So it’s still a sad scene for Sam, but I think your point would have been illustrated better using a scene where Dean said something awful but wasn’t possessed. It’s just not fair to blame him when he wasn’t in control because of a supernatural influence.
I get what you mean, anon. I think you’re right that the gifset probably would have made a better point had it not used a line from Dean that he said while he was possessed by the penny because then no one would be able to use that as a defense and miss the point of what the set is trying to explore. From the way you worded this ask, it seems like you think I made the gifset, which I did not (I am FAR too untalented to do such a thing hahah), but maybe OP chose that line because it more clearly worded something that Dean expresses other times in s8 when he was not possessed by anything.
For example, at one point this exchange happens:
DEAN: Every relationship I ever had has gone to crap at some point. But the one thing I can say about Benny - he has never let me down.SAM: Huh. Well, good on you, Dean. Must feel great finally finding someone you can trust after all these years.
This is pretty much implying exactly the same thing as the line in the gifset, Benny is a better brother than Sam because Sam is included in the category of “every relationship” that had “gone to crap” for Dean that Benny doesn’t fit into because he’s above that. This was Dean’s way of expressing how he felt about Benny in comparison to Sam without coming right out and saying it explicitly. The penny just helped Dean to come out and flat out articulate what he already felt and thought.
However, the line I shared up there doesn’t fit as cleanly on a gifset as what OP used. I can’t speak for OP but I can understand why the choice was made, especially because this isn’t the only time in s8 Dean expresses his position on this.
At one point in the penny episode I think Dean says “Look, man, I don’t even remember what I said, but…” or something and Sam replies with “But what? But you didn’t mean it? You and I both know you didn’t need that penny to say those things.” And I think to a degree Sam is right. Dean clearly feels and thinks those things throughout s8, but maybe it just took the penny for him to come out and say them, which may not feel that different to Sam who is on the receiving end of Dean’s treatment within this sentiment.
I think Dean might not have tried to shoot Sam without the penny - although the jury’s still out on that. He definitely would have said everything that he said without the penny’s influence, because as sunflowerchester pointed out, he brought up Purgatory repeatedly during the season and well beyond. He threw Purgatory back in Sam’s face as Sam went into the church to die in 8.23, for example, and he started rubbing Sam’s nose in Purgatory in 8.01, and in 8.02.
Sam never explained about why he didn’t look in Purgatory, I don’t feel that he needs to but here’s the thing: Dean’s never asked him to. Dean’s been holding onto his hate and resentment about Purgatory ever since he got back.
Maybe Dean wouldn’t have tried to shoot Sam over it, but he’d definitely hound Sam to suicide over it - because he did, without any kind of supernatural influence at all. Listen to Sam’s speech in 8.23, and look at Dean’s behavior in season 8 independent of the penny scene, and tell me honestly that you don’t think that Sam was made to feel that way.
