mostly on why Tim is my fav batfam character and why i think to make him into joker jr takes more effort than killing everyone he loves
An extended rant from my repost to @batfambrainrotbeloved 's repost. Thank you for reposting and commenting, again i loved everything you said about how Damian might struggle internally against Tim, you made my day.
Basically i believe Tim becomeing joker jr from grief of losing everything isn't strong enough of a reason. To specify, i don't think he'll lose it purely due to that and feel like there has to be other factors also contributing.
On a completely separate note, I love the friends to enemies trope with fervor, thats just my taste, so making Tim be the one to take away Damian's family just came naturally to me. And has nothing to do with my stated opinion, but rather additional preference.
Here goes why i feel Tim won't go insane/turn evil simply through losing his loved ones. Its been a while since ive touched any dc media so if i make any mistake about the lore i apologise in advance:
The impression that Tim gives me is that he is ridiculously resilient to corruption, both from within himself and from others trying to turn him, including and especially loved ones being taken from him.
As someone that signed up for robin to keep Bruce from killing himself, Tim has a very good idea how losing loved ones in this line of work can affect you, especially when you blame yourself for it.
He took a long, hard look at the cruel, demanding and at times ugly nature of being robin, the pain and suffering it could inflicted upon him and others he care about, and takes the gig up anyway. Sure enough he gets to experience this pain first hand when his mother was muerdered by a super villain before he even became robin(or right after i don't remember exactly), then his dad, then Connor, Bart, Bruce. While we never see him lose everything all at once, we do see him lose loved ones in close intervals, and we also see how he deals with that grief.
And we see that, though it definitely has tremendous impact on him every time it happens, pushing him into severe self doubt, even vengefulness and hatefulness at times, he rarely lets them triumph over him. He certainly comes close sometimes, yet almost always able to be level headed about it or make the right choice at the last moment, like with boomerang.
Even the few times that he did give in to his dark urges, the closest to evil we see him being is taking the law into his own hands and killing criminals, which i don't perceive as insanity, at least not the kind the joker displays. So even when he does crumble, which rarely happens, he leans toward becoming a control freak like clark, rather than going around murdering people in maniacal laughter like martha Wayne.
And for me that's his core trait, not just as robin, but as a dc super hero in general: He is the person to not fall apart when others most likely would have, and not only that, he helps others back up on their feet when they crumble. Something no doubt he'd do for Damian too, should memers of the Batfamily or teen titans ever be wiped out. Thats just what he, as a character, is created to do.
To sum so far, I simply cannot see any scenario where he willingly embraces becoming joker with sound mind and canonical backstory. for him to do something like that, in my opinion, goes completely against his character.
With that said, i still think it is possible to turn him evil and jokery, to do that first we have to erode that essential part that makes Tim, Tim. Many ways to achieve it too: Joker chip, joker virus, ace chemical acid bath with electricity going through it, you get the idea.
By this point i think it is pretty obvious that i think very highly of his will power and ability to persevere through loss and pain, maybe even to the degree of terrible bias, largely due to me first getting to know him through the red robin series and unfortunately he absolutely slays there. So it should come as no surprise that i also think giving him brain damage, while may work initially, can't keep him evil for long, he'd somehow fight through it, like he does when he killed thebjoker in the movie. He's just got that bat in him. I think It has to be both severe loss and brain damage, and happening to Tim in short intervals with each other. The damage is not meant to cripple him in anyway shape or form, just to knock home the insanity and to have it take root. Much like what the acid bath did to the joker himself.
I actually can't think of anything else to support this for why it won't work well otherwise besides the fact that the joker was also severely traumatized before he fell in the acid bath. What was contributing more, the bath or the bad day he had? I guess you can't really separate them, they go hand in hand.
To sum, while it is essential that he loses most everything he cherishes in order to turn joker, that won't be enough. Additional physical trauma has to happen to take away his will to fight the initial free fall to insanity.
Which is about all i have to say on this matter, not really and solid argument but rather loosely thrown together, very subjective impressions i have of Tim himself and the joker conversion process.