WARNING: POTENTIAL SPOILERS INCLUDED (ESPECIALLY TOWARDS THE END OF THE POST)
There’s been lots of discussions about Loki potentially having lost his memories in the show and as farfetched as that concept sounds, there is (imo) enough proof that amnesiac!Loki will be a thing in the upcoming show.
The very first scene of new footage that we have in the trailer is a scene of him just waking up from unconsciousness in desert. We can quickly see that there are three things missing. His handcuffs, his muzzle and the Tesseract (though one could argue that the later was edited out, but something tells me that’s not the case)
There are also pieces of metal and scrap surrounding him what could also be what remained of his handcuffs and muzzle, but..it’s unlikely the impact of his crash caused this. He seems to have fallen on his back (ouch), why would the cuffs and the muzzle suffer from the impact?
And why would the cuffs and the muzzle break but his clothes and armour remain practically intact?
This scene also brings up two more questions.
1. Why is he in the desert?
He just escaped his brother and the avengers so it’s likely he would travel somewhere safe enough to get rid of the muzzle and cuffs and think of a plan. But…the desert offers him no shelter. It’s a vast land of sand, something, I feel, Loki doesn’t need right now and probably didn’t wish to teleport there.
It probably wasn’t the destination he had in mind.
And Loki knows how to use the Tesseract, he’s smart enough to know how it works, he was literally smirking as he teleported away.
And we all know how teleportation with the Tesseract works. For example, here’s the-one-that-shall-not-be-named-in-this-post using the Tesseract to teleport
A cloud of black&blue smoke and you just step through it, right?
By the state of the sand around him, all over him, the broken scraps around him and the fact he was unconscious it seems like he forcefully crashed to the ground from great distance.
Likely not caused because of his teleportation by Tesseract but something else must have happened that caused him to crash land there.
I’m 1000000% sure there’s an important scene missing between Loki’s escape in Endgame and Loki waking up in this desert, and it might also explain why the TVA are after him.
Who or what caused this, however, we don’t know. All I think is that something or someone interfered with his plans which resulted in him crash landing in desert.
Anyway, Loki wakes up, winces a bit as he does, but seems pretty okay for a guy who probably (and very painfully) fell out of sky.
Judging by his injuries and scratches we can also freely assume this has happened immediately after his Endgame escape.
Overall he seems ok, but very, very confused as it’s evident on his face. He just confusedly stares at the people who approached him but doesn’t react at all.
(Actually he reminds me of myself when someone wakes me up reeeally early in the morning after going to sleep extra late and I have to take 5 minutes to figure out who even am I, what day is it and what’s going on.)
Gotta admit, his expression here is adorable.
Next we see Loki interacting with Mobius and they share an interesting conversation.
Loki: “You’re taking me somewhere to kill me.”
Mobius: “No, I’m taking you someplace to talk.”
Loki: “Well, I don’t like to talk.”
Mobius: “But you do like to lie, which you just did, because we both know you love to talk. Talky, talky.”
Loki:” How long have you been here?”
Mobius: “I don’t know, it’s hard to say, time passes differently here in the TVA.”
Loki: What does that mean?”
Mobius: “You’ll catch up.”
This brings me to the next questions? How did they capture him? How soon after that scene of him waking up did they manage to capture him? How does Mobius ‘know’ Loki loves to talk?
Judging by his still present injuries (albeit a bit faded already) it’s safe to assume this scene takes place very soon after the desert one.
If Loki had the Tesseract, why didn’t he just again teleport away somewhere? They would likely follow him but still. Did he fight? But then, couldn’t someone like Loki easily overpower a bunch of minutemen? He fought shield agents, the avengers, Hela’s army. How did they even manage to force him to chage his clothes and put a collar on him?
How does Mobius know Loki loves to talk when we know that’s not…entirely true? Did he already run into any other version of Loki who’s a bit more talkative? Or did Loki freak out when the TVA minutemen first approached him, all armoured and with weapons drawn - which I suppose is something someone with memory issues could. He’s basically describing Loki to Loki.
I strongly believe there’s a lot of editing involved in this part of the trailer because there seems to be something missing between “talky, talky” and Loki’s confused “how long have you been here?”
And after Loki’s asks what does that mean, Mobius tells him he’ll “catch up.”, either a play on the words or maybe even a subtle hint that Loki’s memories are not completely intact and that they will fill him in on what he’s missing.
Plus his face is totally scrunched in confusion. Loki is a quick thinker, calculating, hides himself behind a stoic mask, never allows anyone (especially enemies) to see what he truly feels and to give them the upperhand. Loki in this scene just looks lost, confused, like he’s processing so much stuff at once. He doesn’t even mind that Mobius reaches out and touches him. There’s not cockiness or confidence or even nothing regal radiating off him in this scene. He’s an entirely different Loki than the one from 2012 (and even TDW). He’s completely open with Mobius which is so unlike him.
(also btw Loki doesn’t wear handcuffs in this scene and his posture almost looks…insecure.)
I also suspect this scene is set after the ‘trial’ where Wunmi’s character brings Loki in front of Gugu’s high ranking TVA agent, presumably gender bent version of Mr. Alternity (in the comics Mr Alternity was the leader of the TVA, and Gugu’s role was described as “a leader.” in casting grid)
Also, speaking of this scene…why is he so resigned? Loki that we know always tries his best to hide his insecurities or what/how he actually feels. How did he go from cocky lil shit from that Endgame scene to a confused, subdued, sad Loki?
Even in TDW, when he was brought before his father he was smirking, he was full of confidence…this is the exact opposite of that scene.
That scene was presumably a trial where they sentence Loki for his ‘crimes against time’….and everything else. If they so wished, they could have removed him from the timeline (since he’s an anomaly) but obviously they didn’t do that for some reason. Perhaps they need his help to capture an even bigger criminal, perhaps they have plans for him. Perhaps they couldn’t legally judge him for a crime he doesn’t remember making (if he lost his memories) so they take him for ‘an evaluation’ to see if he’s actually telling the truth about his memory loss.
And this is where Mobius comes in, saying he’s taking him somewhere to “talk” even though Loki at first assumes he’s taking him somewhere to kill him.
This scene is very likely followed by this one, which is arguably one of the most interesting scenes from the trailer. Mobius shows Loki his memories and his possible future.
First we see him show Loki a scene from Ragnarok, which is something Loki couldn’t have experienced yet. Perhaps to show him one of his possible futures and that he ‘can do good’.
And then he shows his memory, from Loki’s point of view, which is interesting, because why would he need to show this to Loki when Loki just experienced this very thing a couple of hours (or a day, he still has bruises so it can’t be too long) ago? Why would he need to show him his own memories?
What if perhaps they’re doing this to determine whether or not he’s lying about memory loss or they’re trying to see if a certain scene would trigger a memory so they can decide what to do with him?
What if he’s just trying to explain to Loki the events that led up to him being detained by the TVA because Loki has no clue?
Loki also isn’t handcuffed, so it seems like they trust him enough that he isn’t going to fight his way out or try to do something to Mobius. Sure, he has the collar, but he’s still a skilled fighter and could potentially take Mobius as a hostage, demanding they free him.
At some point Loki looks away, clearly bothered by something he’s been shown. Popular theory was that he was shown his death in the main timeline, or perhaps even Frigga’s. But what if this was his reaction at seeing himself do something…bad and he’s disgusted by his actions?
Another interesting scene here is this one, where Loki seems to be evaluated for something. I reckon it takes places around the same time that the one with the memories also does.
Now, we don’t know what’s happening here, but what we DO know is that the guy who’s taking notes is Aaron Beelner and he has been cast as ‘Robot Scanner’ set to appear in episode 1 & 4. Judging by his title it seems like he’s scanning him, evaluating him (perhaps for his abilities or memories), but whatever he’s doing, Loki is clearly not enjoying it.
This is the last time we see Loki wearing a collar, which is surprising because for some reason they trust him enough that he wouldn’t betray them or fight them or anything while they’re out on a mission. It’s even more interesting that he actually seems ok with tagging along, because in the paparazzi photos from March he’s actually smiling.
The most surprising thing here is that Loki, a literal god, is losing a fight involving a roomba. He doesn’t use magic, he doesn’t use his knives, he fights with a roomba and still loses to that guy. He’s visibly struggling, almost as if he doesn’t have a clue what to do,how to fight, while the guy isn’t bothered at all.
Also it’s interesting to note that he also, at none point wear his asgardian garb.
Sure at some point he again figures out how to fight, but he never uses magic. Though there’s this thing called “muscle memory” which could be at play here.
Also, for 2012 Loki, who was at his most villainous he seems surprisingly completely okay interacting with other people, especially humans.
In this scene he seems to be in ancient Rome, Pompeii to be exact, given the number behind him. If you go frame by frame he actually looks like he’s having fun as he appears to be smiling. Now many have theorised this is just Loki moving that woman out of harm’s way, but I don’t think so. Look at the guy on the left, he’s smiling, he almost looks as if he’s drinking something. The woman has arms wrapped all around him, including a hand in his hair. When was Loki EVER this close to someone before? Again, this is 2012 Loki who looks down on mortals and he’s willingly holding a human woman close to him and having her hand in his hair. It’s almost as if he doesn’t have any prejudices towards humans, which he probably wouldn’t if he had memory issues. Also, he has something in his hand, but we cannot make out what that is but a popular theory is that it’s a glass or something. Perhaps they’re having a party, would explain Loki’s good mood.
Surprisingly enough he still wears the TVA outfit, despite being ancient Rome. One would think that Loki, knowing how he is, would be pretty…low-key and would try to fit in.
He actually appears to be wearing that outfit throughout the entire trailer, including when he’s running from fireballs.
Almost like, he doesn’t know how to magically change his outfit for which he’s known for. I mean…it’s raining fire, people are attacking him, I think his asgardian armour would serve him better in these situations than a simple shirt and a jacket.
The only times we saw him wear something different were: D.B.Cooper, Vote Loki and Loki in Stark’s tower. And for at least two of those Lokis I’m sure they are different Lokis.
First, Stark tower Loki, who looks very Avengers Loki with his angry x-mas tree type of hairstyle, his battle garb and even holds the sceptre. He isn’t injured so this also isn’t immediately after teleporting away with the Tesseract.
Then there’s D.B. Cooper and the most important of them all, Vote Loki.
at first one could assume this is our Loki, but notice his clothes, notice his surroundings, specifically the room.
It’s the same place. Notice our Loki in the background? He wears different clothes, pants, tie, shirt, he doesn’t have a vest or even his helmet. Even his hair seems different. In fact even his arm is bleeding and again, he doesn’t fight. Also no, that ponytail guy isn’t Loki but one of the cosplayers that are surrounding Vote Loki.
This scene is followed by this one. Notice our Loki climbs out from that basement or whatever and wears the same TVA clothes? Chances are Vote Loki is another Loki from a different timeline, perhaps in this one he actually won midgard. Same could be for D.B. Cooper.
I find it weird that if Vote Loki was our Loki, that he would change his clothes into his battered TVA uniform and not something that would give him additional protection, like his asgardian armour. I personally believe Vote Loki and Our Loki are two different Lokis in the same scene.
I included this just to show that Loki truly doesn’t seem to change appearance, fight (except for few times) or use magic at all throughout the trailer.
NOW, WE’RE GETTING TO THE MOST INTERESTING PART
I’m sure the majority of tumblr doesn’t know about this, but there’s this guy on twitter (and ig) who’s a paparazzi and in the know about the shows or anything marvel. He’s the one who got us the pictures from march, he’s the one who first broke the news that the production is shutting down, when it will start again, when it ended, where they filmed at certain days, even gave us a few bts photos.To put it bluntly, HE KNOWS STUFF. He’s also a dick but oh well.
Unfortunately….he also avoids talking about spoilers. But he implies stuff all the time, he always speaks in riddles, so if he name drops something it’s intentionally misleading. However, his riddles are something that should always be looked into. Even if more often than not never make much sense at first.
For example…This is is what he posted back earlier this year.
Please note “flaming precipitous drops”.
Also remember the “flaming precipitious drops” I mentioned earlier?
Flaming precipitious drops = raining fire = fireballs
Which is literally what’s happening in the scene.
This isn’t the only thing that later turned out to be correct, but let’s move.
At one point he also mentioned that loki has a stalker.
Yes, his posts are very ‘wtf’ inducing but that’s the standard for him. One always needs to look into his words.
And I dunno about you, but this scene in the mall seems pretty stalkerish. Also, keep in mind the’ crazy fan’ part.
The hooded figure is Sophia di Martino’s character and she seems to be observing the customers and the TVA agents with Loki in tow on surveillance cameras.
We know it’s her thanks to the fingerless gloves, combat trousers, boots with laces and she also has a sword.
Moving on. In september that same guy posted about WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Loki again, and for each show he made a riddled post full of hints but pointed out in a separate post that as weird as what he wrote is, once the shows come out we’ll all see how accurate his posts actually were. Given his in the know history I’m inclined to believe him.
Again, the post makes no sense, but this manner of dropping hints is typical of him. There’s a lot of stuff going on, but let’s focus firstly on “a demon decides to impersonate him to try and steal something called a universal remote.”
So, someone impersonates Loki. Hm…I wonder who could possibly be that.
This is Sophia di Martino’s undisclosed character. Some believe she’s female Loki but I disagree. And here’s why.
Most obvious indicator that suggest this isn’t Lady Loki is her blonde hair. Sophia di Martino is a naturally dark haired actress and has dyed her hair blonde specifically for this role (as did her stunt double). Now, Loki has black hair in every incarnation, it’s basically his trademark at this point so it makes zero sense why would they go rogue with female Loki’s appearance.
Especially since lately marvel seems to be all about comic book accuracy. For example, Hailee has black hair for the role of Kate Bishop, despite having dark hair herself. The kid who plays young Loki dyed his hair dark, despite having brunette hair. They recast Cassie Lang with an actress that resembles comic book version of her. Not only is marvel extremely comic accurate with the appearance of their characters, they also strive to be comic accurate when it comes to their costumes. Look at Kate Bishop. Or Kamala. Or Vote Loki for example. Marvel strives to be as comic accurate as possible, so there’s no logical explanation for this to be Lady Loki.
She also wears combat trousers and boots with laces that no Asgardian has ever worn with their asgardian garb. Meaning, she’s probably not asgardian either.
Which brings forth the question. Then who is this person?
Cailey Fleming has been cast to play Young Sylvie in episode 4 of the show. Now, child actors, when cast, are never described as “Young someone” if there’s no grown version of the same character frolicking around somewhere. Meaning, if there’s Young Sylvie, then there’s also an adult version of her in this show. Also, child actors are usually cast to portray younger versions of certain characters if those characters are in lead or major roles. This is the standard for movies (Thor, GotG, Dark Phoenix) and in the TV shows (Euphoria, Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, This is Us)
These are the leads/major characters of ‘Loki’ show
Out of all of them, only Sophia resembles Cailey. There’s literally only her.
Now, Sylvie Lushton is an interesting character. She’s the second Enchantress, the one created by Loki himself. So, they also have comic book connection.
What’s interesting about this character is that in the comics, Sylvie is a known impersonator. She styled herself after Amora, the original Enchantress, copied her appearance, color scheme, outfit, the way she talked, had practically the same powers and even stole her alias. Amora wasn’t happy about that tbh.
But we don’t have Amora in the mcu, so it makes no sense for Sylvie to model herself after Amora. But it would be logical if she copied Loki.
And that’s where the impersonator thing fits that guy’s tweet.
Now, Sylvie is not a demon, she was literally created by Loki, however, in the show I can’t really see them going that route, her being his magical creation. I personally believe she will have much different backstory and was given powers or influenced by someone else…
We see the TVA agent played by Derek Russo (the same agent that later gets dragged by Sophia’s character), Mobius and a little girl. What’s interesting is how much they focus is on the stained glass of the devil. It literally illuminates the entire room as well as all three character. This scene alone is eeriee and sinister and I strongly, strongly doubt this was merely just an easter egg (especially since Mephisto has long been rumoured to appear in the show)
Mephisto and Loki do share some interesting comic book history, though it’s worth mentioning that the devil also looks suspiciously a lot like Loki. Wearing a green gown, golden chest plate and horns.
Anyway, as I said in the comics Loki gives Sylvie her powers which resemble Amora’s. Who’s to say her powers in the series weren’t given or influenced by someone else? Someone more devilish?
We haven’t seen much of her powers in the trailer, but from what we’ve seen they are quite…dark. Let’s recap. She’s surrounded by fire, drags a tva agent who’s reaching out to save himself, when she’s watching the camera screens they’re flickering, and so are the lights…very…paranormal. Reminds me of every single horror movie with a demonic entity nearby.
Anyway, I think our Mr. Devil will play a big part in the show. Whether he actually shows up or not, his presence is already evident by that stained glass.
Moving on. The guy also mentions the impersonator will try and steal the ‘universal remote’. Whatever that is, I have no idea, but the impersonator seems to be one of the antagonists, which Sophia actually also is! And she appears in all 6 episodes.
Anyway, no clue what the universal remote is, BUUUT, there’s a scene where Loki’s twirling his knives. Behind him there’s something on the door.
It says “…of UNIVERSAL division”. Universal remote…huh.
Anyway, the guy also mentions ‘child Loki’ in episode 4, which fits with assumed first appearance young Loki will have in the show. It’s also the episode with Young Sylvie.
Now that we got some basic stuff outta the way, to the main point of even mentioning this guy. There’s one thing that he mentioned that I couldn’t decode for so long.
In the tweet he said “Loki is dead.” and “Loki is still dead.” and with this he meant Loki in the Loki show, but we know that’s false, since we literally see him.
How else would Loki be dead? But also alive at the same time?
If Loki is dead, he’s a goner. There’s no Loki.
‘Loki’ who doesn’t remember he’s Loki, isn’t Loki.
If Loki doesn’t remember himself, his identity, Loki’s gone. There’s just…him and everything that makes Loki Loki is gone.
What if by “Loki is dead “ he meant, Loki is gone because he lost his memories and despite being alive, this isn’t actually Loki. Not the Loki who we all know and love.
How many fictions are there about amnesia when the amnesiac goes “the person you thought you knew died the day of the accident (aka the day they lost their memories) and I’m not that person anymore. That person is dead. This is me.”
WHICH BRINGS ME TO THIS LITTLE THING THAT LEAKED A FEW WEEKS AGO
This sticker. Someone who worked on the show in its final days posted this sticker of what we assume is Loki. The man looks exactly like him, the hair, the clothes resemble his TVA fit.
The interesting thing here is ‘Luke’. In the comics a version of Loki lost his memories and went by ‘Luke’. (Sure that version of Loki was Kid Loki, but it wouldn’t be the first time the mcu twists some things). Anyway, Luke is incredibly similar to Loki, to the point a lot of fanfic writers use that as Loki’s fake midgardian name. It’s very on-the-nose actually.
Going by this pic alone it’s safe to assume that 'Luke’ is gonna be one of the Lokis and amnesia might also be part of that.
Now, let’s move onto what the cast and crew had to say about the show and Loki:
“-if that sounds a little unusual and confusing, don’t worry, Loki is just as confused.” – Kevin Feige
“This is Loki being put in a position where he doesn’t have all the answers and where he’s been thrown a curveball by life.” – Kevin Wright
“We get the chance to explore more human sides of Loki.” – Stephen Broussard
“’Loki’ is a new departure. But I can’t explain why.” – Tom Hiddleston
“It goes to other places and you get to see Loki mature in a different way.” – Gugu Mbatha-Raw
“There will be a man on the run quality to it.” – Stephen Broussard
“We’re finally going to see him on his backfoot.” –Kevin Wright
“The journey isn’t over yet, in fact, it has only just begun.” – Tom Hiddleston
“-presenting him with new challenges – which then I’d have to change him in different ways-“ – Tom Hiddleston
Some of these quotes are more interesting than the others, but let’s talk about some of them.
Just before they showed us the trailer for ‘Loki’ Feige said “Loki is confused” in the show. The comment was curious as if he was insinuating something…more. Yes we know there are time cops and all that, but Loki is usually someone who quickly adapts to everything.
“doesn’t have all the answers”, “been thrown a curveball by life,” “more human sides of Loki”, “the show being a new departure for the character” all sound very promising.
“Loki will mature in a different way.”
Personally I believe Loki will again go through redemption. Some of Tom’s comments indicate that and Loki works better as an antihero than a villain. But his redemption arc has to be fresh, because he has already gone through one. In the original timeline it was mostly his family that influenced his decisions and it was Frigga’s death that pushed him on the path to redeem himself. He doesn’t have that here. He doesn’t have his family, perhaps a member or two of his family will cameo at some point, but I doubt their roles would be anything substantial.
The only thing Loki currently has are the TVA agents keeping him imprisoned and somehow I doubt that under normal circumstance his captors would make him change his way.
This is still 2012 Loki, this is Loki at his lowest and the most villainous so there really has to be something huge that gives him that one push.
At this point even the rumours about him having love interests seems more likely, since before it was kinda hard to imagine 2012 Loki, straight from the war, still angry romancing anyone. Much less a human.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot and now with this ‘memory loss theory’ in the mix…If something happened to Loki and Loki lost his memories, then Loki is pretty much a blank slate. He learns new things about humans, the world around him, actually lets people close to him. He experiences the world he would usually at that point in his life dismiss.
Helps the TVA, saves people, is more open with them, meanwhile Loki from 2012 isn’t exactly like that.
Loki with no knowledge that he’s Loki makes ‘redemption’ a bit easier. He learns stuff, he fights, he humbles himself, by the end of the series when he gets his memories back he would not only be the Loki we know, but also the new kind of Loki, the one who went through human experience, learnt they probably aren’t that bad, meet multiple alternate versions of himself, some of them worse than others, and perhaps this blank slate Loki with no prejudice towards anyone would give himself a pause and think whether or not he’d like to become like those certain Lokis too.
And like I said, by the end of the show he wouldn’t only get back his memories and become the Loki we know, but also the new kind of Loki that in a way was forced to figure stuff out on his own with no one else’s influence on him but his own.
In short: Why I think Loki having amnesia is possible.
- There’s a huge chunk of story about how Loki ended up in that desert still missing, but it’s clear something went very wrong.
- Loki is clearly visibly confused which is kinda ooc for him.
- He’s surprisingly open (for 2012 Loki) with Mobius and doesn’t seem hostile at all
- He seems totally resigned to his fate in the scenes with the TVA, totally unlike Loki in TDW who oozed confidence even if it was faked
- Why didn’t they just erase him from the timeline if he’s so evil and dangerous?
- Mobius shows him his most recent memories. Why would he need to show him that? This happened just a few hours prior to his capture.
- The scanner guy. What is he scanning him for?
- They take off his collar which restricts him from using his powers, which either shows an enormous and dumb trust TVA agents have in him or they know he can’t or know how to use his potential
- He doesn’t use magic at all at any point in the trailer
- He doesn’t change into his Asgardian garb at any point in the trailer during fight scenes. He fights, runs from danger but still keeps the TVA uniform on as if he doesn’t know how to magically transform.
- The fighting scene in the mall. Like, what the hell was that.
- Loki actually being ok with the TVA and working with them, them trusting him he wouldn’t turn on them the minute they take off his collar.
- Loki actually not minding humans and literally letting a human woman cling onto him, hugging him with a hand in his hair and ENJOYING. How is this even 2012 Loki???
- “Loki is confused” we can see that
- “More human sides of Loki” well, if he doesn’t know who he is, then of course that’s a very human side
- “Thrown a curveball by life” definitely
- “Loki will evolve in different way” if he has no recollection of who he is and what happened to him, then yup, his character evolution will certainly be different
- “he doesn’t have all the answers.” Pretty self explanatory
- ‘Luke’ because that name is literally used by amnesiac Loki
- ‘Loki is dead’, ok so who’s this guy then? Because if this is not Loki, but it’s Loki’s body, who is he?
Also, they did say “Loki will struggle with his identity”
If you managed to read all this, congrats. I hopefully expressed all points and explained why Loki losing his memory is a possibility.
Would it be painful for a character that has already suffered so much to also suffer the loss of self? Very. But the character evolution of his growth would be stunning. Loki losing his memories, being captured by strange folks, learning stuff, good and bad about himself, having no prejudice against humans or anyone, meeting other versions of self who didn’t suffer amnesia, being ‘reborn’ once he gets everything back. Honestly, giving him a temporary memory loss also gives him the chance to really look at himself, his actions, people and other stuff that 2012 Loki otherwise probably wouldn’t.