top tier character trait will always be “I care about you deeply, even though I betrayed you. even though I would do it again” I don’t make the rules
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@somedudewithacat
top tier character trait will always be “I care about you deeply, even though I betrayed you. even though I would do it again” I don’t make the rules
even tho percy's arc with iapetus was incredibly stupid in the fact that iapetus deserved everything that happened to him one thing i do appreciate is that annabeth is like ride or die going to defend percy even if she also feels like he made a mistake. like she's going to tell bob and damasen that percy left him in the underworld because he "didn't know hades was going to be such a creep" even while privately thinking that percy ought to have known this. but she's not going to badmouth him. i love that
but for real tho "hades being such a creep" is like giving iapetus amnesty and making him a janitor. like what's the problem here actually lol
and even if he, admittedly, didn't treat Iapetus in the best way or exactly how you should treat a worker, can you blame him? The war in the books is the second titanomacy. Iapetus and Hades fought against each other for ten years, through most of which the gods were losing. Like, that's his possibly-kinda-sadistic uncle who spent a decade straight hunting him and his siblings down and trying to make his insides into his outsides, and Hades made him mop the floors. For a god whose job includes punishing souls and who has somewhat of a personal grudge against Bob, that's pretty tame
Cat
I bring a certain "mix of standard UK spelling and standard US spelling in English because it's not my first language and my teachers have came from all over the world" to the document that the spellchecker doesn't really like
we are not born to die!! what are you talking about!! do you think a book begins just to finish? do you think a song opens with a beautiful chord just for it to end? you don’t read the book to finish it, you read the book to eat up the excitement and the emotions it evokes!! to learn and to digest and to fall in love and be heartbroken!! you listen to the song to dance and dance and sing your throat raw!!! to cry and smile and swell with the harmonies!! yes, we are born with the inevitable fate of death, we are mortal after all, but that is merely the finale of the play!! the final act, the closing of the curtains - we are not born to take a bow and exit stage left!! we are born to love and be joyous and yell and move and learn and cry and feelfeelfeel!!! we are not born to die, silly, we’re born to live!!!
This is so violently hopeful and uplifting everyone needs to see it
I love characters who are like "I'm a terrible person" but when you look closer it's more like
"I adapted to survive something and now I don't know how to stop being that version of myself."
Free my woman she did all of it but I don’t care
I swear I read somewhere about Perses (the Titan) being Kronos' general, which is why it's cannon and pretty plot important in my stuff, but now I can't find any source for it. wtf
Hades and Cerberus are first cousins and I feel like people don't use this as the amazing comedic opportunity it is
Unfortunately for the time line in my main writing thing to work I'm afraid I'll have to go with the version where Ekhidna is the child of Phorkys and Keto and has Cerberus without a father, thus un-cousining them :(
I keep thinking about that one AU of mine that centers around Bob and Hades and their very messed up relationship (or lack there of)
Basically, after TSATS, after Bob goes off to do his own thing, the gods discover that there is a fucking Titan wandering around, and understandably want him dead, which leads to him seeking Nico out for help and Nico deciding that well, if it worked once it will work twice and Bob will be safe in the underworld. Only problem is now that Bob has all his memories, Hades is much less willing to allow him to stay at his house like he did before because that's his uncle the Titan that spent a fucking decade trying to kill him and everyone he loved and cared about, and was ready to do that again two fucking years ago, what do you mean you want him to stay here indefinitely, Nico he has tried to make my insides into my outsides several times what do you mean can he please stay here
It's messy and angsty and so fucking hard for both of them because they both care about Nico but how are you supposed to be normal around someone you tried to kill/someone you ACTUALLY killed. How do you look at someone you once called family after all you've done to them and pretend you're fine with just seeing each other in the hallway again. How do you not snap or panic when you have to share your home, a place you've gone through so much to have and feel safe in with someone who left scars on your body that will never heal, that were meant to kill.
My main problem with this AU is that I don't know what it's for. Obviously you can and should create things just for the sake of you wanting to and it being fun, but I like the stories I'm writing (that go beyond random snippets and late night thoughts) to say something, to center around something meaningful and that I believe in, but I don't know what I would like to say if I were to actually write this. I do not think you need to forgive everyone who hurt you, even if they changed, and I genuinely do not think Hades would be able to forgive Bob, nor do I think he should. I don't see how they could ever actually make peace with each other, or specifically how Hades would or should ever be willing to even if Bob is, but I also don't want to just leave that unresolved. I also like Nico finally realizing how fucked up the Titanomachy and the elder gods' past really were, and having his dad be a part of his own healing, but I don't like writing suffering for the sake of an audience and that includes Hades having to relive his worst traumas just for his son to learn they exist and find a "meaning" or merit in it. I don't like writing pain as a tool for someone else's growth.
I don't even know through who's POV I would even write this, because yes writing a character witnessing their loved one's pain is delicious, but it's too close to automatically being "suffering for the observer's development and benefit" again for me to write it from Nico's POV. Hades is my usual narrator (in 3rd person), but I don't know if that's what I want here, and also he would absolutely be an unreliable narrator in this case. Bob could be interesting, but I don't want his inevitable guilt to come off as justification or overrun the complexity of it all. Also I already have two big projects I'm working on so I don't think I could write it right now even if I knew what I wanted to say with it all.
@bugwolfsstuff Thoughts? I thought this would be right up your alley, what with the complex dynamics, relationship with forgiveness and redemption and torturing our boy
Branding whumpee isn't enough. Whumper needs to leave their sigil on whumpee's very bones, even if that means ignoring whumpee's screams while they pin the flesh open for enough space to carve their design into the bone beneath.
Trying to draw a concept art of an AU of Hades being a crystal god (ie a Happy Hades AU) and making myself sad with my Hades. He wanted to be a god of the gems he loved so much during the titanomachy :(
The skirt is gonna look like a geode maybe
@i-put-the-hyper-in-hyperfixated my boy, he makes me so sick
oouuuhhhghggghgh hes so happy :(
He would look exactly like his father in this AU because his black eye color is a result of the underworldy powers in my stuff but he would be HAPPY. HE WOULD OF HAD HIS FAMILY :( HE COULDVE HAD EVERYTHING HE WANTED :(
oughhh
Look at him goooo he has not learned the weight and pain of betrayallll
Slightly off topic, but I'm curious: do you have a specific reasoning for why the other Kronides left him behind in your general AUs (that would then not be applicable here)? It's something I vaguely have but kind of struggle with
Bagel
I think my bones are growing mold again :(
THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN "AGAIN"?!
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?!!!
ANIMAL BONES. The post is about animal bones that I keep in a jar, and despite being properly processed have recently begun molding. I am a Real Human with Real Human Bones and my Real Human Bones aren't moldy, thank you very much, though I appreciate the concern
I have a whole list/analysis on why it would make so much sense for Hades to be trans, or at least have some gender fuckery going on btw. If y'all even care
I AM SAT
TELL ME
#I'm pretty fond of there being 3 girls and 3 boys#so my mind immediately went to “Which sister is trans then?”#“Who was accepted where he was rejected?”#squabsquawks
I meant him being a trans man lol, so there are still three girls and three boys, and in fact he would be why there are 3 and 3
If I had to pick a sister to shoot with the Trans Beam though, I would say Demeter. For no real reason, I just like the two of them being parallels and not being happy about that at all
I have a whole list/analysis on why it would make so much sense for Hades to be trans, or at least have some gender fuckery going on btw. If y'all even care
I AM SAT
TELL ME
Okay. SO. This is going to be long
The first point would be that technically, from a culturally appropriate perspective, his domains are feminine. Sounds weird, but ancient Greece had pretty rigid gender roles regarding many things and practices, and the dead and their handling were absolutely of those things. As far as we can tell, funeral rites (which Hades is the god of) were performed exclusively by women, from the preparation of the body to the funeral procession to visiting and maintaining the graves. That’s because it was believed that dead bodies are, just by their presence, polluting, and that women, on account of having wombs, can handle and contain more of that pollution without being in danger. How they reached that conclusion I have no clue, since our evidence of their drug consumption is pretty moderate and you typically need to take something very strong to reach that level of bullshit, but alas. Women were also the ones featured pretty exclusively in necromanic rites (that Hades is, again, a god of, alongside others which I will expand on in a bit) both in mythology and practice, like in the Orphic and Elusynian cults, although the latter are a bit harder to judge as mystery cults were very good at staying mysterious, especially those who practiced taboo themes like, you guessed it, death, rebirth and necromancy.
That majority of women is also noticable in mythology, as if we look at the chthonic gods, perhaps excluding daemons/personifications (like for example Thanatos) we see that the majority of deities responsible for the dead in all their aspects are female, with relatively few exceptions.
Which begs the question of what the fuck Hades, a male god, is doing there, especially considering how unlike most of the other male gods of the dead, like Hermes, he does not have domains outside the dead or the underworld. That’s his whole thing.
And the answer is we don’t really know, because we don’t know where he came from.
The majority of the Greek pantheon can be found mentioned in different Mycenaean sources — the pre-Greek society in the region that ancient Greece saw itself as a successor to, especially in terms of Mythology. We can find the names of most of the Olympian gods in their records, but not Hades. Now, mythology isn’t ever static, and Hades is not the only god whose origins are hard to trace. It’s especially not surprising that we can’t find Hades’ name, because people often avoided saying or even writing his name, so not having a written record doesn’t mean he wasn't there. But what’s interesting is that Perephone, and even Demeter, are there, and were worshiped as chthonic goddesses, under the collective title “mistresses,” with Persephone specifically holding the title mistress, or Despoina.
Or at least, we think it’s Persephone.
Now, on a historical note, pretty much everyone agrees the Despoina is Persephone, and we have evidence for that, including evidence of her name in Mycenaean records. But remember what I said about mystery cults being really good at keeping secrets? Well, the title Despoina was used by those cults, which makes it very difficult for us to know for certain what and whom it means. What I’m getting at is this: we have mentions of Persephone and Demeter by name, no mention of Hades, but an ominous, female title, used for someone who no one wanted to refer to by name, that is undeniably connected to Persephone and Demeter, but somewhat separate from them. Hmmm.
Another evidence that Hades is missing from that pantheon is the role that Poseidon fills — as both a god of the sea and earthquakes, but also of the underworld, with the title Wanax — King — and a joint worship with the Despoinai (Persephone and Demeter). Now, was that because the Mycaeans put much more emphasis on the worship of chthonic deities, which was also why Poseidon filled the role of king of the gods, even though we do have evidance of Zeus’ name? Yes. Could that be because, considering Hades and Poseidon are one after the other in the birth order, when people heard “eldest son of Kronos” they weren’t sure who it referred to at the time, with Poseidon being the known one but another, conflating option of a chthonic god also being recounted? My crack theory says absolutely.
Hades' name, and the lack of its mentions, is evident far outside the Mycaean age, as I’ve already mentioned. He is rarely referred to directly, though it happens enough for us to definitely know his name and epithets. The most common referral to him is when the underworld is referred to as “the house of Hades”.
Except, translation is a funny thing, and rarely linear.
Domos Haidou is the common term for the underworld, and is the one that’s translated into “the House of Hades,” with Domos meaning house and Haidou meaning of Hades. Except, Hades’ name is an adjective, meaning unseen or something close (we don’t have an exact translation on account of not being able to trace his origins). Which isn’t uncommon in many languages, Greek included, and there isn’t something out of the ordinary about that. That being said, an adjective can be applied to any noun. And while Domos can be translated to house, it can just as easily mean ‘place’ or ‘domain’, and with Haidou being perfectly capable of functioning as an adjective, the translation we get is simply “the Unseen Realm/Place”, which is very fitting for the place you cannot see.
So so far, we have a male god with not exactly fitting domains, whose name is hardly mentioned and hard to keep track of (as if it wasn’t there originally…), and with the most common mention of that name not necessarily being that at all. Hmmm again.
My next point is children, or specifically, lack thereof. Listen. I love Makaria, Melinoe and Zagreus as Hades and Persephone’s children, but that is largely unsupported by the sources. Zagreus and Melinoe are largely called Zeus and Persephone’s children (although Zagreus is also sometimes thought of as an earlier, alternative name for Hades, like someone was indecisive), with Hades being referred to as their father as a title more than a relation. Yet again, if we look at it through the eyes of the culture who told those stories, it makes sense — they were born out of wedlock, and are associated with their mother rather than father, so she was likely the one to raise them. So, when their mother got married, they would now belong to her husband’s household, with Hades appropriately referred to as their father, as that’s what he now is by law. Being chthonic themselves, it makes sense for them to be closely associated with him. He’s not the step dad, he’s the dad that stepped up.
If we discard the furies, who are sometimes referred to as Hades’/ Hades and Persephone’s daughters but relatively rarely, with Nyx or Gaia being the usual parents, Makaria is the only of his possible children who is credited to Hades alone — very literally, as there is no source for who her mother is. Generally speaking, it is quite difficult for a man to not know who the mother of his child is, on account of the child having to come from somewhere. Is it possible that the mother is Persephone, and deciding it’s rather obvious it just wasn’t directly mentioned? Sure. Is there another option? Well.
There is also a relatively common conception (haha) that Hades is infertile, on account of being the god of the dead. However, that clashes with Hades also being a god of the earth’s fertility, and being worshiped as such. Now, throughout mythology, we see deities reproducing in various strange ways, including within same sex relationships, like Poseidon and Nereites just popping a child out of nowhere from just how gay they were being. However, while we see it happening in relationships between two men, we don't see the same happening within relationships between two women. Is that largely because of misogyny, female characters being rarely the sole focus of a story and an outdated look on female sexuality? You tell me, I am perhaps less equipped to talk about that on account of being a guy™. But, if we say it’s canon that it cannot happen, and considering Hades, unlike his brothers and nephews, has never taken a male lover that we know of or shown interest in one, if we assume he’s trans would not be able to have a child. As in, he’s only interested in women, but cannot have a child with one, so his infertility is a technical issue and not a biological one, which then wouldn’t interfere with him being a fertility god. Don’t know what that means about my previous point on Makaria, but mythology isn’t consistent and I don’t have to be either.
Lastly but perhaps most importantly is his characterisation and actions. Throughout mythology, the way characters act, gods included, is heavily influenced by their gender. Best showcased in Hesiod's Theogony, there’s a stark difference between how male and female characters advance and which strengths they implore to do so — male characters advance through physical strength and violence, while female characters advance through cunning and mental strength. It is paralleled to the difference between and importance of forethought and afterthought, and the combination of them that Zeus achives by absorbing Metis is the key to his eternal reign (yay, he gets to match gender issues with his big brother).
But Hades doesn’t really fit into that separation. He has a great deal of strength, he is not specifically characterised as a trickster god, and yet he continuously shows either a combination of physical strength and cunning or a stark preference for the latter. He kidnaps Persephone by force, yet tricks her into eating the pomegranate seeds. When Theseus and Piritous show up to and also plan to kidnap Persephone (not cool, he did that first), he has all the reason, ability and justification needed to stop them by force — they are in his domain, what they are planning to do is a crime and he is somewhat less bound by the rules of xenia than for example Zeus — but he doesn’t. Instead, he plays naive, tricks them into sitting down at his dining table and by that activate the trap he set, binding them to their seats with snakes. The test he sets for Orpheus is one of mental strength rather than physical, and it’s one he knows Orpheus will fail. When Heracles asks to borrow Cerberus, his only term is that he’s not allowed to use weapons, forcing Heracles to stop and think on how he should act (before just wrestling one of his heads, which is a more characteristic action but hey, you can’t win them all). His punishment for Sisyphus, who showed a great deal of cunning in tricking him and the other gods, is an eternal demonstration of physical strength, and being remembered for that alone.
Those aren’t typical characteristics for a male character, let alone a god — while heroes have to implore cunning to prevail in their circumstances, gods are rarely in a similar position. He has no real reason to do so, yet he continuously implores less direct and “female” tactics. That is made even more clear when we parallel him to Persephone. First of all, the couple is in the rare position of being equal to each other in power and authority over their realm, which we don’t often see in married couples in mythology. Even Hera, as queen of the gods, is not quite equal to Zeus in power or authority, and has to rely on cunning to get around him when needed. Persephone is the one who’s credited with most of the direct action. She’s the one with scary and dreadful epithets — Dread Persephone and the Iron Queen, while Hades typically gets milder ones relating to his welcoming and hospitality of the dead, she’s the one typically considered the vengeful of the two, she’s the one Odysseus and others assume is sending the spirits of the dead to haunt them and she’s the one most commonly invoked. In fact, Hades is worshiped almost exclusively alongside her, while Persephone also gets her own worship.
It is certainly unusual for the wife to take such precedence over her husband in Greek mythology. Hades is definitely still feared and considered powerful, as the original ruler of the underworld and as, I think, the only one referred to as a sovereign of Tartarus, but he definitely takes a back role compared to his wife and other’s perceptions of them. The usual gendered dynamic is not apparent between them, and in fact it’s almost flipped, as Persephone also takes most of the violent roles, with Hades showing up mostly when, you guessed it, cunning is concerned. So, I’m not saying T4T Hades and Persephone, but I certainly can.
As I’ve already said, this isn’t really my interpretation of mythology, but it’s certainly fun to think about, and can be interesting to explore. Especially considering how Hades, especially in modern media, is characterised as ‘other’ and ostracised from the other gods, which resonates with many queer (and neurodivergent) themes which is definitely apparent in how I write him and means a lot to me. Most importantly, all the love to my trans brothers, ya’ll are awesome and apparently better necromancers than I’ll ever be.
I think my bones are growing mold again :(