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@spnwinchesters
It’s 2018 and shadowhunters fandom still blames Todd, Darren and writers for Malec’s lack of physical intimacy instead of Matt and Harry.
We can see what Matt and Harry can do when they are directed without any partiality. I mean 2x18 exists. So no, I don't blame them here.
Saw this on twitter. Dont know how legit the source is but Interesting. And pretty sad. But the point stands, Jensen and Jared are almost done with SPN.
No wonder Dabb and his cronies are busy with pandering if its true. They really want WS to get picked up huh. Lol.
Taking back all the salt from here, this thread is coming true one by one. I'm so embarrassed for SPN. I can't watch this show reach its whimpering pathetic end like this. Ratings aren't improving anyhow, they don't care about the actual storyline, spinoff is all that matters here and they think pandering to a ship will keep people around. I'm just gonna see J2 on the other side of this shit show.
Saw this on twitter. Dont know how legit the source is but Interesting. And pretty sad. But the point stands, Jensen and Jared are almost done with SPN. No wonder Dabb and his cronies are busy with pandering if its true. They really want WS to get picked up huh. Lol.
So basically Dean was angry at Jack, thought he's evil, acted like he's not even a person, was angry at him for taking away his family and friends.
But then Jack goes and saves Sam. And that's it? That literally was all that took for him to not just ease up on Jack and give him a chance but to also approach Jack and talk nicely to him for once.
Like all you need to do is have protective instincts for Sam and all is forgiven as far as Dean is concerned. Suddenly you go from evil that needs to be killed to not that bad and alright.
That's weirdly Dean being so in character it hurts.
Let me tell you all exactly how canon destiel is.
Dean has turned into John because:
He sees his son as a disappointment.
He is crazy over losing his lover (cas, of course)
Cas is Mary now because:
He’s dead.
He comes back eventually.
Sam is Bobby now because:
He is the only one supporting the kid.
He is teaching Jack.
He is going against Dean with the whole darkness/light thing.
He is being more of a dad than Dean is.
Jack is now young dean because:
He copies his dad.
He praises his uncle.
Being hated by his dad throws him into depression.
He misses his mom (cas).
DESTIEL EVERYBODY.
What. The fuck. Is this.
ASK US AGAIN WHY WE HATE YES HATE DESTIEHELLERS.
Destiehellers 101
Put their destiehell shit in GENERAL tags
Put their destiehell shit in SAM’s tag
Use more than one tag FOR their destiehell shit
Think that we are a ‘family’ while doing the above
*cracks knuckles*
First off, don’t you all HATE John??? John was never disappointed in either son. It’s canon that he’s proud of them. Cas is not Dean’s lover nor would I call Dean as “acting crazy.” He’s upset but that’s all it is just like when he lost anyone else on the show. This isn’t new.
Yes Cas magically becomes another character because they share same circumstance. *sarcasm* May I remind you how many dead characters have returned on this show?
Sam is not Bobby. Sam is Sam. He is his own character and wanting to support Jack and believe in the good in him is a trait Sam has had since before the character of Bobby was even introduced. He’s also the main protagonist so color me surprised that a destiel shipper once again reduced him into a smaller role.
Young Dean was NEVER hated by his Dad WTF?!!! Nor is Dean his “Dad” so stop that. What Uncle??? What kid who lost their mother wouldn’t miss her? What kid doesn’t copy their Dad?
These are so generic I’m surprised you didn’t include breathing air. Nor does this have any relevance to canon. It’s just the most general similarities you can come up with and some of them aren’t even true.
What the fuck is this? Keep general tags and Sam tag clear off your crack fic meta bullshit.
• John was NEVER disappointed in Dean. John was proud of him. John gave away his life to save Dean. Dean doesn't even see Jack as a person, let alone a son. Dean doesn't even have any protective, paternal feelings for Jack. That's Sam. Dean wants to KILL Jack. Jack means nothing to Dean. John sold his very soul for Dean.
• John had wanted Dean to put a bullet in Sam's head if he goes dark side. Jack is in Sam's position now and Sam is his Dean at the moment if anything, who defends him and protects him, believes that he is good.
• Jack lost HIS Mom, actual Mom who gave birth to him. Cas doesn't have a gender but yeah whatever, Jack thinks of him as a Father.
• Dean has died the most and came back to life the most so he is now his Mom Mary too?
• How is Jack Dean? How is Dean John? When Jack is basically living Sam's story right now. If anything Dean thinks Jack will go dark side, its a fucking stretch but that's what John at some point had been thinking of Sam when he told Dean he might have to kill Sam one day.
• Jack is in the same situation as Sam and Sam isn't his Bobby. Sam is his Sam. The only person who can relate to him and put himself in his position and understand his perspective. When was Bobby that for Sam?
• Oh, and the only time Dean ever goes actually CRAY when he loses someone is when it is SAM. Crazy enough to say he doesn't give a fuck if the whole world ends, and sells his soul and stays in hell for 40 years, or point blank KILLS himself to get a chance to bring Sam back. Actually crazy things he only does when he loses SAM. He rages and roars and tears up and shouts for others in his life, that's just Dean being Dean.
Jack: *walking down the street with a bag of groceries*
Lucifer: *appears out of nowhere* “Daddy’s here!”
Jack: *kicks Lucifer in the crotch, runs toward the Impala, yelling* “Stranger danger, stranger danger! Uncle Sam, Uncle Dean, stranger danger!”
Jensen and Jared are great actors so the scenes they get are acted beautifully, perfectly. Sometimes, I’m still left in awe.
But that’s it. SPN is done. I really hope Jensen and Jared are truly done too, ready to move on. Either season 13 or just Season 14 with only 13 episodes to complete 300.
And I think they are. I love them a lot but I don’t think SPN is a priority now. And it isn’t a bad thing. There’s nothing left on this show to prioritize. It is good paying job, a lot of memories and history attached to it. But they must be reaching that end point.
It is so blatant in how they still think of Sam and Dean but how it doesn’t match to what has been presented on the show. Their Sam and Dean is my Sam and Dean, not the once we see on SPN now. These watered down caricatures of what once used to be such dynamic, raw, flawed but amazing characters. And it is not on Jensen and Jared because they are still acting the shit out of these characters but I don’t think they are very invested with what the writers and tptb want to do with these characters, how they want to use them for other purposes, reduce them to this parody like state that it is in today. There is no growth, no consistency, no passion. Every writer’s Sam and Dean is different. They all write their stories and force fit it together in this mess. Sam and Dean are just stuck in the same place they were years before, only now they have been reduced to this flat character status. Sam is just so … Passive. About his own existence. He says such heavy dialogues but his actions are so empty or not even written in. He’s tortured, raped, abused, tortured more and there’s just no real emotional trauma or result of it, everything else is more important. Everything that isn’t related to Sam. Sam can only be felt for through others. He has no story of his own to tell anymore. Because it is like he doesn’t face any of it, doesn’t experience it. Yeah, OK. He internalized it, dealt with it off camera. Um, but he is the lead. His experiences aren’t inferior to these new characters introduced in every season, every episode. Sam, being so empathetic, doesn’t seem to actually process anything that happens to him because it all just happens ‘off camera’, more side characters to deal with, angels to be betrayed by, devil Spawn’s to be raised. Sam is there but he is just not HERE. He isn’t in the story anymore, he is in everyone’s story acting as a soundboard, a reflection glass.
Dean is unrecognizable from what was once the best character on TV for me. One of the most complex and interesting characters, so dynamic and humorous, a dick and a man with a huge heart and fucked up mind. Now he’s just a prop for the writer of the week to remould and reshape into whatever they need to further their story and narrative. Stories for Dean aren’t written, Dean is written into stories, fitted even where he doesn’t fit. Forcefully. Its ugly. He is just a stranger now. I can’t actually associate this Dean with ‘Dean Winchester’ anymore. So confusing, impulsive, immature, mindlessly immature unlike before, when it was endearing in a way. Now its annoying and every writer writes a new dean for every episode. An intelligent, smart, strong man, just like his brother. But now intentionally dumbed down and butchered to elevate other side characters.I fell in love with Sam and Dean. These characters on SPN today aren’t those. They are just strangers. Well acted characters in a bad story, bad narrative, bad plot. Nonsensical. Pathetic.
They are just there. Their only purpose is to be there for all other characters. Hopping from one side character’s story to another. That’s all they do. Their bond, which was the foundation of the SPN world and everything around it is barely just a lip service. Used when convenient. Not really what the show is about. Hasn’t been for seasons.
I don’t believe that J2 don’t see that. They’re just sticking to their own version of Sam and Dean that they love to talk in Cons. Jensen’s Dean has been written off the show, Jared’s Sam is barely there, all important parts have been stripped away from the show and exist only in Jared’s mind and heart.
It’s a good job, brings in good money, gives job to other hundreds of people. But apart from that, J2 clearly have other important things in there life now that they’re ready to commit to. They can’t prioritize a TV show forever. The next stage of there life is almost there. I just hope they can take away some authenticity from the show’s last moment, which will remind them of the show and characters that once was, that they loved and still do but for the most part, the show or the characters don’t exist anymore, mostly buried in the past.
I guess they’re trying to create something that can exist out of Sam and Dean after they have butchered them to such extents for every side character to ever show up. I guess the others are ready to move on to just like J2. Only, they’d like to move on to something new that can have them secure financially after the end. Hope this spin off works out, just so Jensen and Jared totally move on and move out, they’re already halfway there. I’m ready for them to be free, whenever they feel is the right time.
It’s almost like the writers are trying to give service to all the fan requests, and in the process they forget who the characters really are. 13x03 was a setup for Wayward Sisters: here’s a psychic girl, a POC, and probably gay/bi. That answers all kinds of fan demands but doesn’t do the show the justice it deserves.
I know inclusion is important, as is representation. I could write a book on how much I hated the cookie cutter girls in Supernatural’s early seasons. But the writers screwed up somewhere. The show was very masculine - and that was part of it’s appeal to a certain audience - and in losing that masculinity they lost the essence of the show.
“Make the characters grow,” the audience demands, “not that way,” they yell when the characters change.
I feel like J2 are just going through the motions lately, and for the life of me I can’t pinpoint when that started. They are still good actors. They do their best with the material. But somehow they are watered down as if they don’t have to try as hard. Maybe they’re tired of it? Maybe they’re tired of living the life associated with acting on a show? Maybe they want to move on but will have to give up other things in order to do so?
If you believe they are married/together, they would have to find a way to explain why they’re together when the show ends if they don’t come out. Right now, they can say they’re filming so of course they spend most of their time together. After the show ends, too much time together will be like walking on thin ice if they stay in the closet.
If you don’t think they’re together, well, maybe they’re just done with the characters and are feeling stagnant in their lives, but so many people rely on them. The entire production crew, writers, editors, all of them will need to find other employment when the show ends. That’s a big burden to lug around while considering what’s best for you.
They will probably still do cons, the money is fantastic there. I’ve read up on how actors turn down bit parts so they can attend cons because they make more money in one weekend than they would filming the part.
What confuses me a great deal is: when did the show start to break down and why? It began as a show about two brothers who hunt demons while driving a muscle car. The addition of Castiel was interesting, the viewers very much enjoyed a Born Sexy Yesterday character, but even that got muddled somewhere. Maybe there are too many characters on the show. Maybe the showrunners should have kept side characters to a minimum. Maybe the show should simply end and be put to rest.
Should any show continue after ten seasons? Do all shows get so stagnant?
I’m rambling, so I’ll stop. I just keep seeing posts like this one and wonder; when did people really, seriously lose interest and why?
Some good points brought up here. Honestly, I’ll probably get crucified by the fandom police, but I’ll weigh in anyway.
I think all shows have an expiration date at some point. Some reach it sooner (or later) than others. I think it depends on how long they can keep up the winning combination of great actors (who have chemistry of some sort, of course) and great writing. Depending on the confines/limits set up by the storyline or plot, there’s a certain point where the writers can run out of ideas (I’m just speaking about shows in general, not just SPN, before anyone starts screaming). Things by this point can start to get stale.
I also think there’s a danger if the writers or show runners pander too much to the fans and then you get stuff like very blatant fanservice. They shouldn’t go out of their way so much to please/satisfy certain factions of fandom (and again I’m not calling anyone out in particular, so save your flames for someone else). What would be great is if they’d look back on a show, especially in its early days, and see what made it appeal so much to fans. If they can’t see then there’s obviously a problem. If they can see but think it’s been overdone then yeah, that’s also a problem. I think when a show strays too far away from what made it so good and just becomes way too unrecognizable, it’s time to throw in the towel.
Personally for SPN I started losing my excitement a bit around season 8…there were some character issues then that really irked me. Things started to go downhill from there. There are times when there will be an episode that feels more old school that I’ll enjoy, but sadly I’m not as into it as I used to be. I still watch and enjoy the boys, but not as the level I used to.
Jumping in here. I was an avid fan, started watching in S6. I downloaded torrents of earlier seasons and watched them on TNT. I have a passionate lust for Jared Padalecki. I watched episodes until I could recite, including “Changing Channels” and “The French Mistake”. I hated the Leviathans, but I loved Purgatory and I loved Metatron. The fact that SPN was making part of the season about an unreliable narrator touched my writer’s heart. I bawled my heart out at the end of S8. My husband was utterly baffled when I babbled out, “Sam almost died and Castiel is human and all of the angels fell out of the SKYYY–EEEE!”
S9-12 brought diminishing returns and diminishing interest. I respect that having a show on the air is more about ad revenue than creativity. And this show provides hundreds of jobs all the way up and down the ladder. I’ve occasionally wondered if Misha Collins has more than one string on his bow. And what hope do J2 have of getting work above the genre show level of entertainment, assuming they aren’t hopelessly typecast? They are wonderful actors, but are they truly good actors, or are they as good as the show needs them to be and not able to step up to more demanding projects?
A wanky thought experiment I play with myself sometimes: if Bryan Cranston walked into a show, how would the other actors compare? The Walking Dead, no contest. SPN, probably also no contest.
What brought home how little interest I have in S13 was that I forgot it was on. I forgot it was on last night. I didn’t bother setting up my DVR. The occasional excellent episode can’t make up for slogging through another uninspired season. The show can go for more than 200 seasons for all I care. I don’t feel passionate enough to want it canceled. I think about the studio electricians, prop masters, production office staff, greenskeepers. They need their jobs more than the show needs my free time.
I can still watch every episode till season 5 at least twice. Somehow I don't even remember most of the episodes in the last few years. I knew it was over for me when only one or 2 episodes stood out as good to me every season since s10. I just don't have any interest left. As said above, there was something so gritty and masculine about the show. It really feels like a parody compared to the first few seasons now.
Jensen and Jared are great actors so the scenes they get are acted beautifully, perfectly. Sometimes, I’m still left in awe.
But that’s it. SPN is done. I really hope Jensen and Jared are truly done too, ready to move on. Either season 13 or just Season 14 with only 13 episodes to complete 300.
And I think they are. I love them a lot but I don’t think SPN is a priority now. And it isn’t a bad thing. There’s nothing left on this show to prioritize. It is good paying job, a lot of memories and history attached to it. But they must be reaching that end point.
It is so blatant in how they still think of Sam and Dean but how it doesn’t match to what has been presented on the show. Their Sam and Dean is my Sam and Dean, not the once we see on SPN now. These watered down caricatures of what once used to be such dynamic, raw, flawed but amazing characters. And it is not on Jensen and Jared because they are still acting the shit out of these characters but I don’t think they are very invested with what the writers and tptb want to do with these characters, how they want to use them for other purposes, reduce them to this parody like state that it is in today. There is no growth, no consistency, no passion. Every writer’s Sam and Dean is different. They all write their stories and force fit it together in this mess. Sam and Dean are just stuck in the same place they were years before, only now they have been reduced to this flat character status. Sam is just so … Passive. About his own existence. He says such heavy dialogues but his actions are so empty or not even written in. He’s tortured, raped, abused, tortured more and there’s just no real emotional trauma or result of it, everything else is more important. Everything that isn’t related to Sam. Sam can only be felt for through others. He has no story of his own to tell anymore. Because it is like he doesn’t face any of it, doesn’t experience it. Yeah, OK. He internalized it, dealt with it off camera. Um, but he is the lead. His experiences aren’t inferior to these new characters introduced in every season, every episode. Sam, being so empathetic, doesn’t seem to actually process anything that happens to him because it all just happens ‘off camera’, more side characters to deal with, angels to be betrayed by, devil Spawn’s to be raised. Sam is there but he is just not HERE. He isn’t in the story anymore, he is in everyone’s story acting as a soundboard, a reflection glass.
Dean is unrecognizable from what was once the best character on TV for me. One of the most complex and interesting characters, so dynamic and humorous, a dick and a man with a huge heart and fucked up mind. Now he’s just a prop for the writer of the week to remould and reshape into whatever they need to further their story and narrative. Stories for Dean aren’t written, Dean is written into stories, fitted even where he doesn’t fit. Forcefully. Its ugly. He is just a stranger now. I can’t actually associate this Dean with ‘Dean Winchester’ anymore. So confusing, impulsive, immature, mindlessly immature unlike before, when it was endearing in a way. Now its annoying and every writer writes a new dean for every episode. An intelligent, smart, strong man, just like his brother. But now intentionally dumbed down and butchered to elevate other side characters.I fell in love with Sam and Dean. These characters on SPN today aren’t those. They are just strangers. Well acted characters in a bad story, bad narrative, bad plot. Nonsensical. Pathetic.
They are just there. Their only purpose is to be there for all other characters. Hopping from one side character’s story to another. That’s all they do. Their bond, which was the foundation of the SPN world and everything around it is barely just a lip service. Used when convenient. Not really what the show is about. Hasn’t been for seasons.
I don’t believe that J2 don’t see that. They’re just sticking to their own version of Sam and Dean that they love to talk in Cons. Jensen’s Dean has been written off the show, Jared’s Sam is barely there, all important parts have been stripped away from the show and exist only in Jared’s mind and heart.
It’s a good job, brings in good money, gives job to other hundreds of people. But apart from that, J2 clearly have other important things in there life now that they’re ready to commit to. They can’t prioritize a TV show forever. The next stage of there life is almost there. I just hope they can take away some authenticity from the show’s last moment, which will remind them of the show and characters that once was, that they loved and still do but for the most part, the show or the characters don’t exist anymore, mostly buried in the past.
I guess they’re trying to create something that can exist out of Sam and Dean after they have butchered them to such extents for every side character to ever show up. I guess the others are ready to move on to just like J2. Only, they’d like to move on to something new that can have them secure financially after the end. Hope this spin off works out, just so Jensen and Jared totally move on and move out, they’re already halfway there. I’m ready for them to be free, whenever they feel is the right time.
It’s almost like the writers are trying to give service to all the fan requests, and in the process they forget who the characters really are. 13x03 was a setup for Wayward Sisters: here’s a psychic girl, a POC, and probably gay/bi. That answers all kinds of fan demands but doesn’t do the show the justice it deserves.
I know inclusion is important, as is representation. I could write a book on how much I hated the cookie cutter girls in Supernatural’s early seasons. But the writers screwed up somewhere. The show was very masculine - and that was part of it’s appeal to a certain audience - and in losing that masculinity they lost the essence of the show.
“Make the characters grow,” the audience demands, “not that way,” they yell when the characters change.
I feel like J2 are just going through the motions lately, and for the life of me I can’t pinpoint when that started. They are still good actors. They do their best with the material. But somehow they are watered down as if they don’t have to try as hard. Maybe they’re tired of it? Maybe they’re tired of living the life associated with acting on a show? Maybe they want to move on but will have to give up other things in order to do so?
If you believe they are married/together, they would have to find a way to explain why they’re together when the show ends if they don’t come out. Right now, they can say they’re filming so of course they spend most of their time together. After the show ends, too much time together will be like walking on thin ice if they stay in the closet.
If you don’t think they’re together, well, maybe they’re just done with the characters and are feeling stagnant in their lives, but so many people rely on them. The entire production crew, writers, editors, all of them will need to find other employment when the show ends. That’s a big burden to lug around while considering what’s best for you.
They will probably still do cons, the money is fantastic there. I’ve read up on how actors turn down bit parts so they can attend cons because they make more money in one weekend than they would filming the part.
What confuses me a great deal is: when did the show start to break down and why? It began as a show about two brothers who hunt demons while driving a muscle car. The addition of Castiel was interesting, the viewers very much enjoyed a Born Sexy Yesterday character, but even that got muddled somewhere. Maybe there are too many characters on the show. Maybe the showrunners should have kept side characters to a minimum. Maybe the show should simply end and be put to rest.
Should any show continue after ten seasons? Do all shows get so stagnant?
I’m rambling, so I’ll stop. I just keep seeing posts like this one and wonder; when did people really, seriously lose interest and why?
Some good points brought up here. Honestly, I’ll probably get crucified by the fandom police, but I’ll weigh in anyway.
I think all shows have an expiration date at some point. Some reach it sooner (or later) than others. I think it depends on how long they can keep up the winning combination of great actors (who have chemistry of some sort, of course) and great writing. Depending on the confines/limits set up by the storyline or plot, there’s a certain point where the writers can run out of ideas (I’m just speaking about shows in general, not just SPN, before anyone starts screaming). Things by this point can start to get stale.
I also think there’s a danger if the writers or show runners pander too much to the fans and then you get stuff like very blatant fanservice. They shouldn’t go out of their way so much to please/satisfy certain factions of fandom (and again I’m not calling anyone out in particular, so save your flames for someone else). What would be great is if they’d look back on a show, especially in its early days, and see what made it appeal so much to fans. If they can’t see then there’s obviously a problem. If they can see but think it’s been overdone then yeah, that’s also a problem. I think when a show strays too far away from what made it so good and just becomes way too unrecognizable, it’s time to throw in the towel.
Personally for SPN I started losing my excitement a bit around season 8…there were some character issues then that really irked me. Things started to go downhill from there. There are times when there will be an episode that feels more old school that I’ll enjoy, but sadly I’m not as into it as I used to be. I still watch and enjoy the boys, but not as the level I used to.
You both make extremely good points here. Whatever the reason might be for J2 to hold on to SPN, I certainly don't see it is out of pure love for the story and characters. Now if it is because it is a good paying job, or something else. I don't want to comment on their relationship here because that's beside the point. I just know I'll always support them no matter what. But I feel like they have been getting ready to move on from the show slowly. Maybe it started unconsciously seasons ago. It could be that I slowly lost interest as they did. And even if they don't say it, you can see it. It really is like going through the motions because it doesn't hurt anyone, and it brings good things to them and people around them.
It is just sad there won't be any of the originality left to the show that it became popular for. People like to say the show became successful not just because of J2 but the truth is that SPN had the most viewers in the first few seasons. The show was fresh, something new, something unique. Now it is slowly just a platform for all kinds of sections of fandom to fulfill their wishes, even if it comes at the cost of the character consistency. SPN used to be thrilling because once the Characters were the most important, their dynamics was what kept the show going. Even the most simple and cliche plot was amazing because the story was still character driven. It was something magical. The tension, the emotions, the real feelings that you could feel through the screen when J2 and Jeff and other few actors were on the screen, its not there anymore and hasn't been there for many seasons now.
Jensen and Jared are great actors so the scenes they get are acted beautifully, perfectly. Sometimes, I’m still left in awe.
But that’s it. SPN is done. I really hope Jensen and Jared are truly done too, ready to move on. Either season 13 or just Season 14 with only 13 episodes to complete 300.
And I think they are. I love them a lot but I don’t think SPN is a priority now. And it isn’t a bad thing. There’s nothing left on this show to prioritize. It is good paying job, a lot of memories and history attached to it. But they must be reaching that end point.
It is so blatant in how they still think of Sam and Dean but how it doesn’t match to what has been presented on the show. Their Sam and Dean is my Sam and Dean, not the once we see on SPN now. These watered down caricatures of what once used to be such dynamic, raw, flawed but amazing characters. And it is not on Jensen and Jared because they are still acting the shit out of these characters but I don’t think they are very invested with what the writers and tptb want to do with these characters, how they want to use them for other purposes, reduce them to this parody like state that it is in today. There is no growth, no consistency, no passion. Every writer’s Sam and Dean is different. They all write their stories and force fit it together in this mess. Sam and Dean are just stuck in the same place they were years before, only now they have been reduced to this flat character status. Sam is just so … Passive. About his own existence. He says such heavy dialogues but his actions are so empty or not even written in. He’s tortured, raped, abused, tortured more and there’s just no real emotional trauma or result of it, everything else is more important. Everything that isn’t related to Sam. Sam can only be felt for through others. He has no story of his own to tell anymore. Because it is like he doesn’t face any of it, doesn’t experience it. Yeah, OK. He internalized it, dealt with it off camera. Um, but he is the lead. His experiences aren’t inferior to these new characters introduced in every season, every episode. Sam, being so empathetic, doesn’t seem to actually process anything that happens to him because it all just happens ‘off camera’, more side characters to deal with, angels to be betrayed by, devil Spawn’s to be raised. Sam is there but he is just not HERE. He isn’t in the story anymore, he is in everyone’s story acting as a soundboard, a reflection glass.
Dean is unrecognizable from what was once the best character on TV for me. One of the most comex and interesting characters, so dynamic and humorous. A dick and a man with a huge heart and fucked up mind. Now he’s just a prop for the writer of the week to remould and reshape into whatever they need to further their story and narrative. Stories for Dean aren’t written, Dean is written into stories, fitted even where he doesn’t fit. Forcefully. Its ugly. He is just a stranger now. I can’t actually associate this Dean with ‘Dean Winchester’ anymore. So confusing, impulsive, immature, mindlessly immature unlike before, when it was endearing in a way. Now its annoying and every writer writes a new dean for every episode. An intelligent, smart, strong man, just like his brother. But now intentionally dumbed down and butchered to elevate other side characters.I fell in love with Sam and Dean. These characters on SPN today aren’t those. They are just strangers. Well acted characters in a bad story, bad narrative, bad plot. Nonsensical. Pathetic.
They are just there. Their only purpose is to be there for all other characters. Hopping from one side character’s story to another. That’s all they do. Their bond, which was the foundation of the SPN world and everything around it is barely just a lip service. Used when convenient. Not really what the show is about. Hasn’t been for seasons.
I don’t believe that J2 don’t see that. They’re just sticking to their own version of Sam and Dean that they love to talk in Cons. Jensen’s Dean has been written off the show, Jared’s Sam is barely there, all important parts have been stripped away from the show and exist only in Jared’s mind and heart.
It’s a good job, brings in good money, gives job to other hundreds of people. But apart from that, J2 clearly have other important things in there life now that they’re ready to commit to. They can’t prioritize a TV show forever. The next stage of there life is almost there. I just hope they can take away some authenticity from the show’s last moment, which will remind them of the show and characters that once was, that they loved and still do but for the most part, the show or the characters don’t exist anymore, mostly buried in the past.
I guess they’re trying to create something that can exist out of Sam and Dean after they have butchered them to such extents for every side character to ever show up. I guess the others are ready to move on to just like J2. Only, they’d like to move on to something new that can have them secure financially after the end. Hope this spin off works out, just so Jensen and Jared totally move on and move out, they’re already halfway there. I’m ready for them to be free, whenever they feel is the right time.
Yeah honestly. This makes me do sad but San and Dean J2 talk about and that I agree with and talk about just aren’t being presented by the writers. And so many don’t seem to not even care or really don’t see it.
I know we all see the show differently and have our different POV but really? The quality has definitely gone down in the writing. Like I don’t want to be rude and I bet the writers are trying their best but there just so many. And it does feel like Sam and Dean are like parody or just a shell of the characters they used to be.
This hurts. Sam and Dean & J2 deserve better.
They have given it all since day 1 on every single episode for now what 12/13 years.
They deserve so much better then they get. I just don’t get how that is not seen by so many writers and fans.
This is just my thought though.
There is also others things like how J2 obviously can't give the show all the time like before and they don't want to. But the episodes haven't been cut down per season accordingly. So now Sam and Dean are more like sprinkled over the dish like salt and spices instead of being the dish themselves. And what the writers cook and offer tastes bland. They needed less episodes, but more focus on Sam & Dean, with actual development in narrative and characters.
Jensen and Jared are great actors so the scenes they get are acted beautifully, perfectly. Sometimes, I'm still left in awe.
But that's it. SPN is done. I really hope Jensen and Jared are truly done too, ready to move on. Either season 13 or just Season 14 with only 13 episodes to complete 300.
And I think they are. I love them a lot but I don't think SPN is a priority now. And it isn't a bad thing. There's nothing left on this show to prioritize. It is good paying job, a lot of memories and history attached to it. But they must be reaching that end point.
It is so blatant in how they still think of Sam and Dean but how it doesn't match to what has been presented on the show. Their Sam and Dean is my Sam and Dean, not the once we see on SPN now. These watered down caricatures of what once used to be such dynamic, raw, flawed but amazing characters. And it is not on Jensen and Jared because they are still acting the shit out of these characters but I don't think they are very invested with what the writers and tptb want to do with these characters, how they want to use them for other purposes, reduce them to this parody like state that it is in today. There is no growth, no consistency, no passion. Every writer's Sam and Dean is different. They all write their stories and force fit it together in this mess. Sam and Dean are just stuck in the same place they were years before, only now they have been reduced to this flat character status. Sam is just so ... Passive. About his own existence. He says such heavy dialogues but his actions are so empty or not even written in. He's tortured, raped, abused, tortured more and there's just no real emotional trauma or result of it, everything else is more important. Everything that isn't related to Sam. Sam can only be felt for through others. He has no story of his own to tell anymore. Because it is like he doesn't face any of it, doesn't experience it. Yeah, OK. He internalized it, dealt with it off camera. Um, but he is the lead. His experiences aren't inferior to these new characters introduced in every season, every episode. Sam, being so empathetic, doesn't seem to actually process anything that happens to him because it all just happens 'off camera', more side characters to deal with, angels to be betrayed by, devil Spawn's to be raised. Sam is there but he is just not HERE. He isn't in the story anymore, he is in everyone's story acting as a soundboard, a reflection glass.
Dean is unrecognizable from what was once the best character on TV for me. One of the most complex and interesting characters, so dynamic and humorous, a dick and a man with a huge heart and fucked up mind. Now he's just a prop for the writer of the week to remould and reshape into whatever they need to further their story and narrative. Stories for Dean aren't written, Dean is written into stories, fitted even where he doesn't fit. Forcefully. Its ugly. He is just a stranger now. I can't actually associate this Dean with 'Dean Winchester' anymore. So confusing, impulsive, immature, mindlessly immature unlike before, when it was endearing in a way. Now its annoying and every writer writes a new dean for every episode. An intelligent, smart, strong man, just like his brother. But now intentionally dumbed down and butchered to elevate other side characters.I fell in love with Sam and Dean. These characters on SPN today aren't those. They are just strangers. Well acted characters in a bad story, bad narrative, bad plot. Nonsensical. Pathetic.
They are just there. Their only purpose is to be there for all other characters. Hopping from one side character's story to another. That's all they do. Their bond, which was the foundation of the SPN world and everything around it is barely just a lip service. Used when convenient. Not really what the show is about. Hasn't been for seasons.
I don't believe that J2 don't see that. They're just sticking to their own version of Sam and Dean that they love to talk in Cons. Jensen's Dean has been written off the show, Jared's Sam is barely there, all important parts have been stripped away from the show and exist only in Jared's mind and heart.
It's a good job, brings in good money, gives job to other hundreds of people. But apart from that, J2 clearly have other important things in there life now that they're ready to commit to. They can't prioritize a TV show forever. The next stage of there life is almost there. I just hope they can take away some authenticity from the show's last moment, which will remind them of the show and characters that once was, that they loved and still do but for the most part, the show or the characters don't exist anymore, mostly buried in the past.
I guess they're trying to create something that can exist out of Sam and Dean after they have butchered them to such extents for every side character to ever show up. I guess the others are ready to move on to just like J2. Only, they'd like to move on to something new that can have them secure financially after the end. Hope this spin off works out, just so Jensen and Jared totally move on and move out, they're already halfway there. I'm ready for them to be free, whenever they feel is the right time.
So no one is wrong or right here. Dean has all the reasons to be wary of Jack, no matter how adorable the kid is. Dean literally just lost so many of his loved ones, Jack is related to that and Jack is the son of someone who has caused so much pain to the Winchesters since day 1.
Not to mention, in Dean's eyes it is not the same situation as before where Sam could have gone dark side. Dean would have never been able to get rid of Sam for good no matter how evil he was. Dean would readily kill Jack the moment he acts up and becomes a danger, especially since Sam is sticking so close to him so there are chances that he will get hurt the most. Something Dean won't have. In fact, Dean is putting a lot of trust in Sam here even though he is thinking the exact opposite of what Sam is thinking. He sees why Sam wants to protect Jack and why he thinks that the kid can be good if he is nurtured rightly. But he also knows Sam is stubborn and he isn't going to change his mind just because Dean is distrustful. So in a way Dean is also going along with keeping Jack close to them so that Sam isn't dealing alone with the kid and Dean can keep an eye out for both. Protect Sam and eliminate the danger if it comes to it.
To Dean, it is not the same situation as before because Jack is not Sam. And Dean has never been good at following his own rules when it comes to Sam. Sam is an exception. But otherwise Dean has been consistent in his methods of dealing with danger.
Though I am sure that eventually he will warm up to the kid. Only for it all to go to shit.
Now, Sam is a different story because at least to him, he can see a lot of himself in Jack and he is filled with empathy because he has been in that place. He was pretty close to going dark side himself and it was the unconditional love that he and Dean share that kept him grounded. You can see why he would want something like that for Jack who is even more innocent in some ways than Sam ever was. Jack is just born. Sam had 22 years of experience at living life before shit really went down. This kid will be basically raised by Sam.
I'm just happy no is storming out and trying to do it by their own or forcing their opinions on each other. Sam thinks differently, Dean thinks differently. So what? They can still stick together and find a middle ground with each other. If shit goes down, no 'I told you so', 'it's your fault'. Instead, Sam believes Jack can be inherently good. Dean believes things will go wrong and he already knows Sam won't be able to put Jack down because of attached he is already so he already knows that it will be him who will put an end to it if things escalate to that. Sam knows what he is feeling is right but he is also understanding, he knows where Dean is coming from and how he feels and he is insightful as far as Dean's thought process is concerned. They can handle this together.
During hiatus, Kevin Parks tweeted about the funeral pyre and we saw a lot of this:
Then they saw an episode was going to be named Tombstone and:
Then there was the promo pic of Cas dead on the table:
HAPPY OPPOSITE DAY, EVERYONE! Every single thing they said? The opposite happened. Sam didn’t want to burn Cas. Dean did. Sam got all teary. Dean didn’t.
Now they’re trying to recontextualize everything to make themselves feel better because the truth of the actual ep is too hard. Here’s the first weak attempt:
Yep. Sam knows his friend is dead and he’s sad. HOW MUCH MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED, PEOPLE?? lol Honestly, although it’s annoying how they trivialize Sam’s grief to make everything all about their ship, this whole thing is hysterical. 10/10 for the ironic smackdown.
THIS IS SO HILARIOUS. D/C shippers come off as such desperate losers, more so than ever these days.
It is Dean who couldn't be quicker to burn Cass while we see Sam who is on the verge of crying and not wanting to burn the body.
According to their own fucking logic, it is Dean who is less attached to Cass and isn't as sentimental about him as Sam is.
Only if they would stop trivializing Sam's emotions and relationships with others for their crack fanon ship, maybe they wouldn't come off as such idiots with a constant case of foot in mouth.
OK, I always knew Dean loved Crowley.
Jack is so interesting and fresh and cute, so much of what we needed after the staleness of other regular characters. He's so innocent but intriguing, if they want to make him the most prominent character after the two leads, I'm all for it. He's good.
Also, I'll always remember how Dean gets when it is Sam who is dead. Sam's body is the only one he refuses to burn or bury. At one point he drove for hours with Sam's body, then kept him in a room and talked to it and got angry even at the idea of burning him. And eventually sold his soul, tried to do it again.
Dean is capable of going on with his life no matter who else he loses. He gets upset and grieves, his own Father and Mom. He is sad but he isn't ever going out of his mind with grief as if he can't breathe without feeling excruciating pain if it Sam who stops breathing.
Anyway, let's see how it goes. I'm still wondering if this or the next is the end.
Just dropping in to say I love J2 and they are the only ones who truly matter. I see people are still trying hard to make something out of nothing and are still being hypocrites. Anyway, I am chilling knowing that Jared and Jensen are just here for each other no matter what and with every passing moment they are even more attached to each other if that is physically and emotionally even possible. Staying away from SNS but keeping up with J2 made me realize that literally nothing else matter -- the jealously, the insecurity, the hypocrisy, the insanity, the agendas, the entitlement of people who think that they will ever be able to dictate the life an relationship of two people who are so entwined and dedicated to each other, they have created this world so carefully for themselves where they are always just a reach away and forever mentally in touch in a way that if you look at it from an outsider pov, without any knowledge of the show, the fandom(s), the drama -- it looks like magic. Just meant to be. I can’t trust anything. I have lost touch with the how. But it is the easiest thing to have faith in this relationship. Rest truly doesn’t matter.
Misha is such a pathetic jealous asshole seriously. Pandering to the Jared haters in his panels with even more hate. Good going, you moron. You keep being focused and shit, you’ll be unemployed once SPN ends anyway.
Like he’s literally seething with jealousy towards Jared. And the only reason he ain’t taking shots at Jensen is because he knows Jensen won’t take his shit. Jared is the easy target. I’d like to see him say this JOKE in front of J2 if they are such good friends. Jared has already expressed how insecure and inadequate he feels, how many auditions and rejections he has faced.
That’s why J2 are so thankful for what they have unlike some who feel entitled to have everything because of their delusional superiority complex and entitlement.
He’s so ungrateful. I’m tired of it. Dude you are LUCKY to be where you are and you just want to bitch that you’re not the big shot you wanted to be.
Also does he not get how rough this business is? Yeah some actors get lucky, some are very talented, some are both. It’s how it is. Don’t cry about how someone had it better than you especially if they are obviously more talented than you. Or can you just not accept that maybe you’re not a very good actor?
This is the guy who actually thought as a fan favorite supporting role on a show with barely two million viewers, he wouldn’t have to audition. Big A listers had to audition just to do FROZEN.
Honestly, this is just Misha shooting himself in the foot. Doing this for the second time in addition to all the bitching he does, he’s solidified a reputation of being jealous, ungrateful, and bitter. Not flattering at all.
Misha is such a pathetic jealous asshole seriously. Pandering to the Jared haters in his panels with even more hate. Good going, you moron. You keep being focused and shit, you'll be unemployed once SPN ends anyway. Like he's literally seething with jealousy towards Jared. And the only reason he ain't taking shots at Jensen is because he knows Jensen won't take his shit. Jared is the easy target. I'd like to see him say this JOKE in front of J2 if they are such good friends. Jared has already expressed how insecure and inadequate he feels, how many auditions and rejections he has faced. That's why J2 are so thankful for what they have unlike some who feel entitled to have everything because of their delusional superiority complex and entitlement.
