Okay, so I got this weird strawpage where someone questions my choices of making Pastry fat... You see, there's nothing wrong to ask me about my headcannons!
The thing is that the way anon said, is basically "hey, Pastry Cookie isn't fat canonically!!! you are WRONG" which... okay man.
I literally projected "my type" of women on her, both physically and mentally... So you are basically saying that my taste is trash too... 🤔
Anyways, just so you know...
Who chews on bones are dogs... Red Velvet ain't one 😌🙏
I actually headcannon him to whenever he's able to, give Pastry some treats as a gift because he LOVES her and he would love her as ANYTHING THAT COMES!!
it’s just so frustrating when someone can only talk about a female character in terms of what she “deserves” in a greater moral sense and never about what she wants and willingly puts herself through by means of having agency and what serves her narratively
Maid Matcha x Porter Butter Roll. The most diligent employees who undertake extra room inspections and cleanings. This time it's the honeymoon suite. Why would the Grand Dust Hotel have a honeymoon suite, you ask? Nobody knows. But they're going to clean it...after their inspection...
As usual, I was thinking about the story that unfolded from this part regarding matcha and butter rolls. But suddenly, this part flashed through my mind. As you all know, Matcha is a cookie that is completed with one ingredient missing, isn't it? Then, what kind of cookie would Matcha have been if it had been created according to DE's intentions? More importantly, would it have even been a cookie? It would have become an existence that was not weak but strong, did not break easily, and served as the perfect means to take revenge on the witch as a bio-weapon. Of course, it would have been a satisfactory result for DE as well. What kind of life did Matcha lead after being completed as a biological weapon? Would it have been impossible for her to live like ordinary cookies? I don't know... but it seems that Matcha, being a perfect cookie, was so isolated that even the word "lonely" wouldn't suit her.
I think it is ironic that Matcha was born a failure, which allowed her to live like ordinary cookies. And she, too, is an ordinary cookie. If someone passing by saw it, they might think, "That cookie is a bit unique..." but in the cookie world, where would you find a cookie that isn't unique? Everyone is weird at least once, right? lol So, I generally view and enjoy whatever interpretation is given to Matcha. However, I do not enjoy it if it excessively schematizes her as a victim or attempts to separate the Cookies next to her one by one by portraying her as someone who needs protection.
Like this line (although it is in Korean, I trust you will understand it from the context), I do not know what DE's intention was in creating the matcha back then. However, like Butterroll's line, I want to boldly approach, interpret, and imagine the secret of the matcha. I do not want to protect her. Although she looks like an ordinary cookie on the outside, I do not want to define her by just one aspect when she is missing an ingredient that holds infinite possibilities and potential inside.
new popular tumblrman drops > everyone starts shipping the tumblrman with various characters > inevitably one of those characters is a woman > immediate outcry of "actually she deserves better" > people turn on the pairing that involves people having to see popular tumblrman interact with a woman > despite being about how "she deserves better" the woman is cast aside and forgotten in favor of the tumblrman > women continue to be sidelined in fan spaces for the sake of men and are not allowed to so much as breathe in the direction of those men > cycle repeats
over time people have realized that decrying women that get in the way of their fantasies about the newest tumblrman as harlots doesn't fly anymore, so instead they go for trying to argue that actually she deserves better than tumblrman, she's too good for tumblrman, she deserves to feature individually rather than always being paired with tumblrman. but these arguments are never being made in earnest, and you can tell because never do they ever result in these people actually centering a majority of their focus on the women. it's always an excuse to dissuade the broader fan space at large from posting about the woman and the tumblrman together for fear that they'd be called misogynistic or problematic, effectively driving the woman's presence out of fanwork. and shockingly, this trend is what's actually misogynistic, not the presence of a woman near popular tumblrman.
ok, for context: me and darenk came up with a conclusion that there's 15 million of matcharoll fankids, represented by our mycookies, in the wild. this number is based on the number of active crk players (5 million) multiplied by the number of mycookies slots available (3 for each user). so, yeah, that's a lot of children-
AUGHFDHH THEY ARE SO CUTE....look at these babies I can't 🥹😭💛💚 imagine accidentally creating an entire clan in a day lol, absolutely legendary. they better get jobs cos they got 15mil kids to feed!!!!
A random thought that hit that doesn't really have any prior digging but in a way Matcha Cookie got attention but it's not the favorable kind. Like, she wants to be seen, in particular for her skills (but she also wants general attention). Butter Roll Cookie gives her attention but it's not really all that good.
He is utterly fascinated by her, with the caveat being that it's for her disability only and he goes about it by essentially dehumanizing her. A majority of the time when he talks to her, he brings up her missing ingredient and acts as if she has a similar thoughts. If I recall (and I double checked for this and it's true) Licorice Cookie tells Butter Roll Cookie that not everyone is obsessed with research as him.
And Matcha Cookie very much does not like this nor Butter Roll Cookie. I believe it's implied or outright stated that her missing ingredient plays a factor into why she's treated poorly (could be wrong tho) so I imagine the constant reminder and prodding of her missing ingredient would make her not feel good. Although to be fair even if her disability isn't why she's treated how she is by the other COD, Butter Roll Cookie's behavior regarding her disability would make pretty much any disabled person uncomfortable.
I don't really have a conclusion to this; this was just me sharing an off the cuff thought
I have a few thoughts from this post and the first is: the assertion that Matcha Cookie is disabled is one that is rooted in fandom headcanon/projection and that's something that should be kept in mind. Devsis have not and probably will never explicitly state that Matcha Cookie is disabled, only that she has a missing ingredient and this affects her personality. Her personality – not her cognitive, psychological, physical or neurological development/state – her personality only:
This isn't to say that interpretations of her being presumably ND are invalid or wrong, but just that such interpretations are not actually canon. The term ‘coded’ is used a lot by the fandom with regards to this, which implies a degree of authorial intent on Devsis’ part to portray Matcha as disabled. But that IMO wouldn’t make sense, since CRK is a kids’ game. Deliberately depicting a character as being disabled because they have a missing ingredient is not something they would likely do – what message would be sent to their audience? It’s not to say that Devsis haven’t made poor writing decisions or put out problematic depictions of particular cultures, but that in this instance it’s unlikely given there will be ND kids in their audience (and there would likely be backlash from the parents of said kids in their domestic audience if Matcha were stated to be canonically disabled, with the particular narrative she has).
But again, not to say that this interpretation of Matcha being disabled is wrong. However, many in the fandom take this theory of [Matcha’s missing ingredient = indicator of disability] and view all interactions with her through that lens. Which, fine. People can do that! However, I would make two arguments which is that:
Matcha’s missing ingredient does not categorically render her as ND, only that it affects her personality, and renders her literal ingredient composition as unique. Therefore, any interaction with her regarding her missing ingredient is not inherently ableist given the aforementioned context.
Matcha’s missing ingredient is a point of interest for Butter Roll but is not the sole factor in his motivation to interact with her.
So I’ll address the points made (and to the original poster: I’m aware they were off-the-cuff as you stated, but since the post was tagged I consider it fair game for discussion).
A random thought that hit that doesn't really have any prior digging but in a way Matcha Cookie got attention but it's not the favorable kind. Like, she wants to be seen, in particular for her skills (but she also wants general attention). Butter Roll Cookie gives her attention but it's not really all that good.
Matcha does desire recognition, this is correct. In particular she desires to be regarded not only on equal terms as the other COD, but as someone who can outmanoeuvre and overpower them:
Besides her resentment it’s not necessarily that she wants to hurt them, it seems more that she desires to be regarded as someone who could. Someone with more capability than they possess:
However, stating ‘Butter Roll Cookie gives her attention but it's not really all that good’ could imply that there’s ill intent on Butter Roll’s part. But we don’t receive any of Butter Roll’s internal narrative throughout this story, nor any of the main storyline (only the Hotel Costume story are we explicitly given anything from his POV). It’s still reasonable though to assign a value on the type of attention given by what it actually entails, so we can discuss this further.
He is utterly fascinated by her, with the caveat being that it's for her disability only and he goes about it by essentially dehumanizing her.
I would agree he is fascinated by her, and her missing ingredient is a subject of intense interest for him given his research fixation. However, I think stating ‘it’s for her disability only’ is reductive. His interest in her is motivated by his intrigue regarding her ingredient composition, but I’d argue he views all cookies through this lens:
BR’s ascension dialogue. Also, dialogue from his official introduction video on youtube:
(KR, translated to EN (using google): Sometimes I wonder about my own recipe, too. I wish I could experiment with it someday, though…)
(EN dialogue.)
So I would say it’s reasonable to assert that he views all cookies, himself included, through the lens of his hyperfixation (cookie research). Which is not to say this isn’t essentially objectification – reducing cookies to their base ingredients and properties – it is. But there’s this idea floating around that Matcha is a unique recipient of this particular perspective which we can see by his dialogue isn’t true – he at least applies this view to himself.
If we go back to the point made, again, attributing disability to Matcha’s missing ingredient is headcanon. Fan theory. It’s not to say there isn’t an argument that can be made for it, but that’s different from stating it as authorial/canonical fact as seems to be the case here (many such cases). The only thing that her missing ingredient is definitely stated to affect is her personality (which could be a potential indicator of neurodivergence, but that’s somewhat flimsy evidence in of itself). It’s for this reason that I don’t think that he ‘dehumanises’ her via these interactions:
I do think he objectifies other cookies by means of viewing them through the lens of his fixation – their recipes. We are shown that he explicitly applies this view to himself, and we can infer he sees all cookies this way. And yes, he does want samples of her. He also tried to obtain samples of other cookies in the past:
Which sounds dubious at best. But it’s implied that he had at least attempted to acquire samples of other cookies, who probably didn’t have a unique composition as Matcha does. Given that, it’s unsurprising that he wants to procure a sample of Matcha. What I want to point out is that this isn’t a desire that is uniquely attributable to Matcha alone, even with her missing ingredient. He’s tried to do it before, with other cookies!
A majority of the time when he talks to her, he brings up her missing ingredient and acts as if she has a similar thoughts. If I recall (and I double checked for this and it's true) Licorice Cookie tells Butter Roll Cookie that not everyone is obsessed with research as him.
He brought up her missing ingredient four times to my knowledge – once we already mentioned, the instance OP mentioned, when she was destroying the lab, and once more in the finale:
It’s interesting that Licorice makes that comment. An obsession (with cookie research, generally speaking) is an apt description, and again, signals Butter Roll’s lack of social awareness. Which doesn’t excuse his actions, but it puts forth the possibility that he’s not deliberately targeting her. I actually think there’s sufficient evidence that signals he is neurodivergent – I made an analysis post on the hotel costume story here which details that.
But by the end of the laboratorium storyline, he essentially concedes that he underestimated her and agrees to stop provoking her:
But in any case, whilst I agree they were certainly insensitive statements, I don’t see sufficient evidence that he had intent to denigrate her nor holds the view that she is lesser than he is. Because we can see that he does address her as a peer, in their kingdom interaction:
This excellent analysis of the same dialogue (particularly the honorifics used) in the original Korean text really accentuates the intention of the author in their interaction. [It’s worth pointing out that a Korean native speaker backed up this interpretation!]
[quote from the aforementioned post, from Malamilkbeats] When Butter Roll Cookie generally speaks in a Ha-ge-che style, it suggests he isn't trying to be "friends" (which would be Hae-yo-che), but he also isn't being a "bully" (which would be Hae-ra-che). He stays in his role as inquisitive.
And Matcha Cookie very much does not like this nor Butter Roll Cookie. I believe it's implied or outright stated that her missing ingredient plays a factor into why she's treated poorly (could be wrong tho) so I imagine the constant reminder and prodding of her missing ingredient would make her not feel good.
I agree that Matcha seems to hold some negative sentiment towards Butter Roll, I won’t contest that. However, their Kingdom interaction shows her addressing him, trying to mock/tease him. this suggests their relationship is at least somewhat reciprocal, where she will seek him out to antagonise him in response to a perceived slight from Butter Roll in turn.
However, I broadly disagree with the missing ingredient being the reason why the COD treat her badly (she interferes with their plans, and does not fit DE’s standard of utility, so Matcha is ranked at the bottom of the COD hierarchy (IMO this is why Matcha’s specific fantasy is DE saying ‘Who knew Matcha could be more useful than I am?’). But even if this is the case and Matcha’s missing ingredient is the scapegoat, it doesn’t mean that BR is knowingly or purposefully pouring salt on that wound – and how is the COD’s mistreatment of Matcha at large the fault of Butter Roll specifically? Why is their behaviour excusable but his isn’t?
Although to be fair even if her disability isn't why she's treated how she is by the other COD, Butter Roll Cookie's behavior regarding her disability would make pretty much any disabled person uncomfortable.
Once again, this reads to me as an interpretation (Matcha’s missing ingredient = disability) that is stated as fact, that is then applied to a narrative (Butter Roll hyperfixating on Matcha’s unique ingredient composition) which is equated to a real-life societal issue (ableism). It’s not that I don’t think we can apply themes of oppression and discrimination to CRK storylines, but in this instance the crux of this point is that Matcha is disabled. And canonically, the only evidence that supports this is that Matcha’s missing ingredient has ‘greatly’ affected her personality. But we don’t know what the ingredient is, and to what extent she was affected. Making the statement of ‘Matcha is disabled’ is not unequivocal, therefore stating that Butter Roll’s behaviour is unequivocally ableist is not sound when weighed against available evidence.
Back to Butter Roll’s attempts to engage Matcha. In their interactions in BY 13, he addresses her directly without being prompted. Asks her for her opinion, on a project which they were at least implied to have collaborated on:
Now I would agree that BR’s comments regarding Matcha’s status as a failed experiment are certainly insensitive and unkind. I also think they are unmalicious. If we keep in mind the way he views cookies, it’s likely that even if he views Matcha as the product of a failed experiment, the fact she is an experimental failure is just a fact – no more and no less. Once again, the concept of this and/or her missing ingredient being linked to disability is not canon and is a theory that cannot be definitively stated to be a source of prejudice in Butter Roll’s treatment of her.
But referencing the laboratorium storyline, whilst he ruthlessly disposes of dough monsters that he deems as failures, they were not cookies per se (as we would recognise them) – they were blobs of living, raw cookie dough:
His research goal to make the perfect cookie dough ratio was highly specific, and we can see Butter Roll’s rigid thinking in his reaction to the dough creatures back then.
But when that particular mission is done, and the beast doughs are made, still Butter Roll actively engages with Matcha Cookie. It’s possible that he has an ulterior motive, of course, but isn’t it also possible that he collaborated with her and addresses her simply because he desires to know her thoughts? Isn’t this also a possibility that could be considered? Given that he literally asked her opinion? Isn’t this a sign that could signal a desire to include her into his own projects and undertakings as a collaborator?
Which is not what the COD do, by the way (in CRK. I know there are differences in CROB but I am discussing CRK):
So back to the very first point I addressed:
A random thought that hit that doesn't really have any prior digging but in a way Matcha Cookie got attention but it's not the favorable kind. Like, she wants to be seen, in particular for her skills (but she also wants general attention). Butter Roll Cookie gives her attention but it's not really all that good.
Are all Butter Roll’s attempts to engage with her – his asking her opinion on his work, their implied collaboration on the ‘fruits of their experiment’, asking her thoughts on the Dough Trio – are those bad forms of attention? Is it possible that perhaps even if he engages with her in less-than-ideal ways (intrusive, upsetting and insensitive) in some capacity, that the other attempts are equally negative? I don’t think so personally.
We can turn towards the after-finale story:
Once again he refers to their shared collaborative work (‘our experiments’) and asks her if there’s something on her mind – after noting her lingering there, looking out to the ruins of DE’s legacy.
When she remains silent, he says this:
This might seem like an insensitive slight, and perhaps it is insensitive. But Matcha actually does respond to this, and dictates her thoughts on her creator to another person – for the first time we have seen:
The questions that Matcha harboured to herself, we saw traces of back in the laboratorium storyline. But we don’t know if she ever divulged these to another. It’s reasonable to assume she hadn’t – out of pride most likely, not wanting to acknowledge her perceived deficiencies.
(I think it’s interesting to consider if Matcha were intended to possess ‘incredibly dark powers’, and does not (doesn’t match her elemental power), is this the metric against which her status of a ‘experimental failure’ is held against? Not the fact that she is missing something another ‘ordinary’ cookie would possess – but something very specific and extraordinary that DE desired?)
In any case, Butter Roll responds to her:
This reads to me like an objective statement from Butter Roll. It’s not intended to be particularly comforting, but is a truthful assessment of Matcha’s predicament. Her creator is gone. Even if Matcha comes to know her composition in its fullness, and the extents of her abilities, who can tell her of DE’s intention behind making her but DE herself? Even the castle that DE presumably created her in, and all potential evidence of Matcha’s intended purpose, is gone.
It’s interesting that he references ‘secrets’ here – plural. There are numerous facets of her that he finds compelling as a researcher. It doesn’t appear as simple as ‘he is only interested in her because of her missing ingredient (‘He is utterly fascinated by her, with the caveat being that it's for her disability only’). If his interest in her only went as far as her missing ingredient, why wouldn’t he simply state this now? I don’t believe he’s capable of restraining his honest thoughts, even if it would serve his purposes – he literally referenced her missing ingredient at the start of this discussion. So if he is honest enough to say that, why wouldn't that honesty extend to this expression of him having a broader interest in her? Or wanting to collaborate further with her?
And what of Matcha's feelings? Well it's hard to ascertain for certain what they are in the finale scene. But she's talking to Butter Roll, engaging with him. Are they on better terms now, or is it just the mess they are in which is compelling her to lower her defenses? Difficult to say. But he is interested in what's on her mind. That can't be disputed. She desired that before, right? To be acknowledged, to be asked her opinion, to be regarded as someone with input.
Anyway, if you’ve reached this far – thank you for reading.
