seen from Malaysia
seen from United States
seen from United Kingdom
seen from United States
seen from Malaysia
seen from Malaysia
seen from India
seen from United Kingdom
seen from United Kingdom
seen from Belgium
seen from China
seen from United States
seen from India
seen from Iraq
seen from Japan
seen from China
seen from Germany
seen from Australia
seen from Uzbekistan
seen from United States
Aegon absolutely humiliating Aemond in the brothel once again providing evidence that Luke and Jace WERE NOT THE PROBLEM. THEY DID NOT INSTILL AEMONDS ANGER, IT WAS HIS OWN DAMN BROTHER.
It’s now been confirmed that Aemond is gonna try to kill Aegon next episode.
those who have reason knew already, but..
It sounds bad but I can understand Aemond's frustration with Helaena to an extent. Her dragon is the second oldest the Targaryens have and there's even a deleted line from Season 1 where Aemond complains that Helaena "never bothers" with her dragon. And Helaena's just so inconsistent about just how aware she is of what's going on around her, I don't think it would be unfair to think that maybe she does know what's going on, and how much danger they're in. In which case, the fact that Helaena didn't flee or protest would mean she chose that faction and is now sitting on their second best weapon that also happens to make the opposing faction see them as more of a threat and somewhat motivate them to come at them with more force.
Or maybe the writing is bad. I don't know.
Aemond's perspective on dragons and their connection to them is a very limited one. He may be seemingly clever or even wise to some ("philosophies", being able to speak high Vlayrian in contrast to Aegon's terrible use of it", his eagerness to strategize), but his idea of dragonriding is too battle-and-war-centered. He doesn't seem to value Vhagar past her experience and size and use for battle, I'm saying. Even Aegon shows his love for Sunfyre...even it's immediately before going out to try to "prove" himself to anyone. They both appear to only draw strength from their dragon "ennobling" their right to rule or be "important" within this patriarchal Targness war-making that validates them as kings or rulers.
Therefore, it's very possible (bc of bad writing we don't have context for why or why Aemond doesn't observe/put much stock or deep thought into any observations he has of his siblings in other settings to make a definitive conclusion of that based on the "text" of the show) for how Aemond does/doesn't think of why Helaena might be so "subdued" or why it appears she makes "less" use of Dreamfyre or doesn't "prepare" her for war...at least in recent time. And for Aemond, for years Alicent & perhaps Otto have imparted to him and his siblings that they all had to remove Rhaenyra from the heirship/throne, even to survive. A false notion, btw, but one nonetheless Alicent told them for years presumably since early childhood, so yeah, Aemond grew up thinking of dragons as their main line of defense and offense. thus dragon are more war machines to him.
So to both young!Aemond and now!Aemond, "bothering" with a dragon has to do with actively flying them and thinking of them as animals put to a sort of contracted "use". Perhaps just the flying of the dragons is construed by young!Aemond and now!Aemond as "preparing them & yourself" for war. I think that there appears an idea that Helaena--thru her magic in the show--is the most "in tune" with her dragon than anyone on her side of the family. So she absolutely "bothers" with Dreamfyre.
If this were a better written show, we'd see season 1!Aemond also seemingly make as if Helaena doing this is bc women are not expected to battle or that she is "weak"....which contradicts what he expects of her now in season 2/3. That'd be a great depiction of the double standards of sexism the show could have used. (That was a digression, but an important one I think.)
The other thing is that Helaena never asked to be Queen or to have her kid murdered after AEMOND chased & killed Luke and the blacks seemingly retaliated and tried to get at Aemond. (Of course, this is me just taking the show at the moment and at face value and being diegetic bc that's what you seem to ask for). She never usurped Rhaenyra and put their entire family in danger in the first place. Or "distracted" Criston Cole from his post.
That Aemond is demanding that she now go into war:
with no battle experience whatsoever, not even any military training or swordsmanship
when she can barely walk around the Keep without being too overstimulated and is pretty unequipped to also handle war even when flying above it
on a dragon who also has no battle experience whatsoever to possibly deprive her only child of a mother--a girl her father ignored and her grandmother might also ignore with her track record (yes I say this even as we saw Alicent in the leaks say she would take Helaena and Jaehaera away, Helaena: doesn't know of that; has little real reason to trust Alicent after what happened to Jaehaerys; when she made her marry Aegon; and they never were close anyway)
Now he demands that she put her life on the line for something she has no belief in and never had any room to decide on or give input on? when no one cared about her or her kids' thoughts about the whole thing? When Alicent, Aegon, this entire institution has used her body for their own ends? Aemond is entitled to her body and her dragon--the one other thing that she maybe loves above all else besides her bugs and children, a dragon that maybe keeps her settled with herself at heir cramped and oppressive home as much as other Targ women's dragons did for them & be ways/reminders of freedom and personal strength?
Nah.
Helaena does know...but why should she feel obligated to fight when she is not responsible or did really anything to make the blacks seek out their deaths? no, she didn't "choose" the greens' side even if people argue that she could have fled the Keep with her kids to Rhaenyra. She likely stayed for the same reasons as other women and girls stayed with those who mistreat them--it's pretty much all they know.
However, bad writing also has something here, as we don't know the full extent of Helaena's limits, which could have been revealed if they had taken their time and given us the greens/blacks lives in their respective homes at different times to explore these characters and their relationships...it's also possible that she can't fly Dreamfyre for long, esp with two other kids with her...Dragonstone to KL and vice versa is pretty far even for a dragonride.
EDIT *8/5/24*
I forgot how Helaena, to challenge him abt the consequences if she were to go against his will and say no again, pts out Aemond tried to Kill Aegon already when he asks her again to fly out with him. So, again, she owes him nothing when he'd so easily think of killing herAS WELL AS AND IN CONTEXT OF all the above in this post.
Also, even if we argued for her complicity in the usurpation, it doesn't mean that this would erase the compulsion to stay having no where else to expect to stay and survive on her own.
END OF EDIT
Been observing a rather strange phenomenon within fandom reactions regarding HotD and the criticisms pertaining to Ryan and Sara's writing.
The Black faction is dissatisfied because of issues such as the writers' lack of adherence to canon, distortion of character, sidelining/erasure of PoC actors
The Green faction is upset because the show didn't validate the elaborate headcanons they had constructed about the Greens: about Aegon and Aemond's brotherly love and loyalty, about Alicole's selfless courtly love, about Aemond being a caring and dutiful son. And many of these are not just unsupported by canon but outright rejected.
Book Aemond didn't care to rescue his mother and sister who were trapped in King's Landing. He even remarked that Aegon's crown looked better on him. Criston Cole was always an opportunist with a bitter obsessive hatred for Rhaenyra. He joined Alicent for no reason save for his own gain.
It seems like some people are still unable to wrap their heads around the simple fact that the Greens are the villainous antagonists of the Dance.
Ryan Condal has uttered a lot of bullshit but saying that the book was biased in favour of the Greens isn't one of them. This show went out of its way to bend canon and water down the Greens' villainy, at the expense of the quality of the script I would add. But there is only so much the Condal and Hess can do, biased that they are, without completely changing the entire plot they have to adapt.
Wrote about Aemond, Alicent & Helaena HERE. And in the line of the book where Alicent employs Criston, it is immediately described after Criston is responding to Rhaenyra's rejection and killing a man in rage during a melee/vis-a-vis spectacle. Definitely an opportunist.
This show went out of its way to bend canon and water down the Greens' villainy, at the expense of the quality of the script I would add. But there is only so much the Condal and Hess can do, biased that they are, without completely changing the entire plot they have to adapt.
This wasn't elaborated on. Why is there "only so much they can do" and how does this undisclosed information/explanation show that they couldn't have adapted the original story's most criritcal FACTS as they were the best they could instead of going into a totally different direction, even oppositional. Esp to go so far as to try to equalize Rhaenyra and Aegon. As political leaders, social and individuals, with is to undermining the misogyny that Westeros/many Targs practiced, which enabled the fall off of the dragons and magical imbalance of the world?
Many changes have been done that didn't need to be there but were there for a particular "moral" reason of preventing the violence we're going to witness. That's a whole other conversation, point is that this is a clear CHANGE and many projects have been able to display competiting medieval entities w/o caricaturizing them.
Like yes, the Dance was people concerned with political power and thus it seems that it was a petty dispute...but the commentary is that what makes this dispute petty is that they really could've let Rhaenyra reign (who committed no great wrong against vulnerable individuals nor smallfolk, and esp not the way Aegon had before the war), but the greens didn't and their supporters didn't because BOTH they thought they deserved that power and that men should maintain exclusive rights and access to women's bodies and general/more political authority through the transfer of power that is male primogeniture. That status as the "world's" leaders. As if Rhaenyra's reign would have totally upended patriarchy in an instant or end male privilege , but bc it would at least set up a change towards women having more power even if it would take YEARS, they responded violently. For the HotD team not to really internalize that and not see the value in several things they have outright changed to make some faux, pretentious claim of moral superiority when they try to be "neutral" is to actually be against the story's point in the first place. It's affected how Daemon treats Laena, it's affected how Daemyra operate around each other, how Rhaenys was written the way she was, how both Rhaenyra and Alicent were and basically every female character.
That is not them having "difficulties" with adapting but trying to make said story "appealable" to audiences who really don't know much about ASoIAF.
The green boys are definitely their mother’s sons—both Alicent and her children seem to have an issue with picking petty fights with kids. What do you mean, 20-year-old Aegon got mad at 13-year-old Jace for asking Helaena to dance? And yet, some fans are quick to scream that the show is biased toward the tb, while conveniently ignoring how the greens are portrayed as a bunch of losers in the books too.
The other incident that anon is also referring is when 10 yr old book!Aemond attacked 2-yr old or so Joffrey in the book, not the fight b/t him and Jace-Luke after he landed from Vhagar. Not necessarily a "fight" but he still insitgated violence there when joffrey was alerting people to his presence which Viserys, Alicent, AND Rhaenyra would have had him punished or punish him for being underground trying to claim an older dragon when he should have been asleep. Bk!Aegon was also mad at Jace for wanting to dance w/Helaena.
There is something funny about the fact that unlike most of the other bullied or abused characters, Aemond is bullied not out of misogyny or ableism or homophobia or parentage, but simply because he's "bullyable" and Alicent never put a stop to it on either end. Because any other Targaryen in his place would have been like, "Yeah I'm in a brothel. So are you. So what if I was feeling a little... nostalgic tonight. Now go away, I already paid for a second round."
But then again, not EVERY Targaryen. And that's where it gets kind of dark. Because the writing itself wants us to have far more sympathy for Aemond in that circumstance, than for Rhaenyra at the same age being accosted by Alicent for her own brothel visit, and this time Alicent has bigotry behind her.
And that's what annoys me with how the show wants you to sympathize with Aemond for being "uniquely" bullied. Because he's not. Because in the episode he's introduced, we're shown how Rhaenyra, Laenor, and their sons are being harassed and outright abused for misogyny, homophobia, and parentage, by adults wielding actual power. Hell, Viserys and Aegon are getting more elder and child abused than Aemond is in that episode. And I find it kind of fucked up that... the writers see the one character who isn't harassed or abused for being vulnerable or marginalized as the true "victim" in that regard.
I'm going to be honest with you. I have not seen this episode so aside form the fact that I know Aemond gets mocked by Aegon at the same brothel Dyana works at. HOWEVER, yes, the show has been doing stuff like this since at least episode 3 or 4. With Rhaenys speaking with Rhaenyra and acting as a sort of diegetic mouthpiece against Rhaenyra for not basically acting as if she has no chance of actually becoming queen. The show places her as the "voice of reason" when she herself has lost her seat bc a man, her own grandfather, made it happen--effectively justifying how misogyny doesn't really matter as much as conforming to the status quo and its threat of violence so you can avoid violence from said status quo...
Or how the Velaryons are apparently paternity tests to use against Rhaenyra's supposed proclivities as if Aegon isn't also having bastards he leaves to fight each other in pits.
This is what we mean when we say unchecked, patronizing sexism is built into the very ethos of this show as well as the moral standard the show is structuring all of its characters and the value of their actions on. This is pretty much what capitalism does--provide a sort of "space" or are of focus for its consumers, pretending that they are pointing out a discrimination when they are really using the consumer's extant biases already socially trained and advertised to them since childhood to sell the product. Makes for seemingly rationally written TV when it's all just shallow trash with glitter on it trying to to seem meagingful or making meaning.
One thing I find utterly wild in the show is that Aemond tells the Velaryon boys, “You will die screaming in flames, just as your father did!” to which Luke says, “My father is still alive!” And nothing is ever said or done about it. Obviously, Aemond is talking about Ser Harwin, but it’s certainly not a good look in any sense.
Imagine any of the kids, Jace, Luke, Baela or Rhaena, turning around and telling Corlys or Rhaenys what Aemond said in private, and then, within the next few days, Laenor is burned to death. Regardless of what happened, it would 1000% look like the Greens murdered Laenor.
Interesting how this didn't occur to the writers. then again, they seem to be focused more on making sure to condense as much as possible this story to its planned 4 season, 10 episode each (ex the 2nd of course) structure, so a lot will be left out. I blame both them and the current streaming stuff. This is why I don't really watch shows over movies and I don't know of a lot of shows that exist that have ended back two years ago or so.
F&B makes it abundantly clear that Aemond was a DISASTER both as a ruler and military commander, his initiatives were petty, sadistic, idiotic, ineffective and did nothing to get even remotely close to a victory in the war. His cold-blooded murder of Lucerys provoked the Blacks into all-out war, as well as causing Daemon to send assassins after Aegon II’s children, as Prince Regent, he spent much more time leading his army against the Blacks or launching raids in the Riverlands instead of actually managing things in King’s Landing, and his obsessive quest for Daemon in the Riverlands is what left King’s Landing free for Rhaenyra’s successful siege. His storming off to lay waste to the Riverlands to sooth his wounded pride after learning of King’s Landing’s fall left Criston Cole and his army to make their own way back to the capital, and without Vhagar to give some aerial protection, Cole and his army were worn down by ambushes, desertion, and fatigue before finally being annihilated at the Butcher’s Ball. And his extermination of House Strong might have been a deciding factor in Larys Strong turning on Aegon II when it became clear the war was over for the Greens.
During the Conquest, Visenya was an invaluable tool for the Targaryen cause: her handling of the Crackclaw Point men represented a clever recognition of Crackclaw Point’s independent streak and a turning of that streak to the Targaryens’ advantage, while her actions in the Vale showed that she understood the value of diplomacy, albeit a sort of dragon diplomacy, when traditional warfare would not suffice. Aegon trusted Visenya enough to manage the capital while he and Rhaenys warred in Dorne, and the lack of reported dissent or trouble on the home front during this time speaks to Visenya’s skill as an administrator. Her creation of the Kingsguard likewise demonstrates a remarkably both practical and symbolically potent solution to a real problem, an obvious flaw in security around the monarch, while her first seven selections embodied the ideals she sought in her guard and proved her decision correct by “serv[ing] to the end of their days with honor”.
The only similarities between Visenya and Aemond are Vhagar, the use of violence (practical and not unnecessarily cruel in Visenya’s case) and the fact that Aemond murdered his nephew (and I actually don’t even believe Visenya murdered Aenys).
Break it down, anon, break it down.
“Who are these men you’ve hanged ?”
Edmure glanced up uncomfortably. “They came with Ser Cleos when he brought the queen’s answer to our peace offer.”
Catelyn was shocked. “You’ve killed envoys ?”
— A Clash of Kings, Catelyn V
Killing envoys is a war crime, they weren’t in open field battles, no war has been declared yet. Lucerys went there as an envoy under a peace banner. He’s 14-years-old with a young and tiny dragon, Aemond is 20-years-old with the largest and oldest dragon alive. Aemond murdered Lucerys in cold blood and started the war.
And not only Aemond ruthlessly murdered Lucerys, but Aegon II LITERALLY THREW A FEAST TO CELEBRATE HIS DEATH.
Like... Daemon and Rhaenyra are SO MUCH BETTER THAN ME, because if this had happened with my child, I would’ve also killed Jaehaera and Maelor and played with their heads like I was Messi. Not even joking.
War Crime definition:
an action carried out during the conduct of war that violates accepted international rules of war
Again, it's not condoning child murder, it's pointing out how hypocritical the anti-Daemon/anti-black/anti-Rhaenyra arguments for B&C are.
It's pointing out that killing envoys is taboo--or at least socially considered condemnable and ethically incorrect--in Westeros.
