#alpha species

[eldrorian]

Alpha

a flag for when your species is alpha

Tag List: @radiomogai , @specieschive , @seasulfur , @alterhumanflags

[isa-sketches]

Finished up a really fun commission yesterday!

[kingofthewilderwest]

Bewilderbeast Ice anon again. Sorry, let me clarify. I don't think the shape of the island was caused by ice, I think that the ice Gustav and Snotlout saw when they were in the caves was caused by a Bewilderbeast. It could just be normal ice, but the shape of it and the color reminded me a lot of the ice made by Bewilderbeasts.

Alright! I grabbed the screencaps and am ready to chat about this! Thank you so much for your patience explaining to me what you meant. <3

So here are the ice formations within the caves of Berserker Island:

To compare it to Bewilderbeast ice:

It certainly does seem as though these are the same sorts of ice formations. While there is a tiny bit more “spikiness” to the top image with RTTE, it’s really not enough to detract from the visual similarities. Both of the ice blocks are long and narrow like icy stalactites, stalagmites, or icicles. They have the sense of frozen, projected motion… they are conical with a thicker base tapering to a sharp, usually singular main tip. And as you pointed out, they’re basically the same unique color.

I think you’re onto something!

I mean… why would there be ice beneath Berserker Island’s cave system otherwise? Berk is of a similar climate and geological formation yet does not appear to have ice pillars in its underground cave system. 

And this being Bewilderbeast ice… would all work into the comments made in the final episode about searching for the King of Dragons. Valka also mentions a king of dragons within HTTYD 2 when she says, “Every nest has its queen, but this is the king of all dragons.” And it’s about a Bewilderbeast.

This suggests that we might catch a sight of a Bewilderbeast within S6. I’ve talked with a friend about how we interpret what Bewilderbeast Johann and his company are searching for… if it’s any Bewilderbeast, or a very specific Bewilderbeast (aka, Valka’s dragon, which is the alpha over all other dragons).

I think the one reason I’m divided about these two options is because of how the alpha is treated throughout HTTYD 2. The role of the alpha is portrayed as a leadership position that is not necessarily confined to a Bewilderbeast - hence why Toothless can take on this role. Other dragons in The Serpent’s Heir are capable of recognizing Toothless for being an alpha regardless of his kind, even when they have never seen Toothless before. 

It makes sense to me if “alpha species” and “the alpha” are treated as related but separate concepts - Bewilderbeasts in plural being “the alpha species” because they’re typically the ones leading on top… but the alpha itself is a position of authority in the dragon hierarchy that TECHNICALLY can be to any dragon, like Toothless. If that’s the case, then it’s a question of whether “the king of dragons” Johann comments about means to be understood as “alpha” or “alpha species.”As far as RTTE is concerned… they absolutely can’t touch Valka’s territory directly, else we collide too much with the novelty of the second film. It’d be more likely for the writers to treat “king of dragons” as either a generic reference to a Bewilderbeast. Another option is that Johann, Viggo, and Krogan find a random Bewilderbeast that isn’t the actual king of dragons who lives with Valka but still of interest to them since they’re trying to find a Bewilderbeast. 

Regardless, having ice that looks like a Bewilderbeast’s is suspicious. This could be an instance of sneaky foreshadowing for S6′s arc. And given as Dagur and Heather are incorporated into at least several episodes every season, this would be the perfect opportunity to bring them in again for a big climax. It’d get us to tie up both the arc of the Oswald family and the main arc of the Dragon Eye + enemies + build to HTTYD 2 times.

[kingofthewilderwest]

Could "Nest Leader Species" or "Monarch Species" perhaps be a more accurate title then? Because, strictly speaking, the Red/Green Deaths and Foreverwings have never BEEN Alphas in canon, only Nest Leaders. The only Alphas we've seen were Bewilderbeasts and a Night Fury.

From this.

Haha, you can use whatever term you want to describe them that you feel is appropriate. Those aren’t bad terms at all! I chose the phrase “alpha species dragon” to tackle some confusion that was going on in HTTYD fandom dialogue between abilities that dragons like the Bewilderbeast had, versus the common hierarchical roles that dragons like the Bewilderbeast had. I’m sticking with it since I’ve used it in discussions several years. But you can pick whatever words you want to describe whatever groups of dragons you want - this is all discussion that falls at the level of the fandom and not canon terms. Though seriously, haha, you don’t have to debate whether you like the wording of a term that I made up. ;) 

[kingofthewilderwest]

I saw some fans like me who wants Foreverwing for HTTYD 3 because on the previous two movies there are Giants Alpha Dragons (Red Death in HTTYD 1 and Bewilderbeast in HTTYD 2)

That’s a very cool idea! I’ll admit I’m also someone who would be happy with more Foreverwing stuff - I find the dragon a very fascinating one, and love the design besides. More material would be cool.

I suspect the Foreverwing wouldn’t have much place in HTTYD 3 given that the writers have to cram so much into so little - have Toothless interact with a new Night Fury and have Hiccup figure out how to beat Drago and his Bewilderbeast and play back and forth in time and lead to whether or not the dragons disappear and have Hiccup and Toothless grow up to become fully realized leaders of their kind. It would be hard to insert in a Foreverwing on top of that complex plot. Any material showing the Foreverwing would take up expensive, critical minutes of the story that could be dedicated to more pressing matters of the plot.

I don’t suspect the Foreverwing would have an obvious placement in the plot of HTTYD 3. There would need to be some purpose for it, after all. In HTTYD and HTTYD 2, the large dragons functioned as a cause of conflict. The Foreverwing can’t be a cause of conflict, though, unless Drago ditches his current Bewilderbeast. I don’t think the Foreverwing could plot-wise be a leader dragon, an antagonist, or a novelty to expand upon the wonders of dragonkind.

Since Toothless will be encountering at least one other Night Fury, I imagine that topic and creature will be the focus on dragons for this movie. The dragon which gets showcased will be the Night Fury. Since the Foreverwing is an alpha species dragon that can control multi-species hive minds, it doesn’t seem like it would have much to add additionally - Toothless is the alpha of Berk, now, and we’ll see draconic leadership grow strictly through him. There’s no need plot-wise for another ally dragon with an alpha role around. And I suspect that the large alpha species dragon we’ll see in HTTYD 3 will be Drago’s Bewilderbeast returned. There could be some interesting turns of events involving that dragon, given its abused and unhappy past/present.

Since the Foreverwing cannot fit into an obvious role, I suspect that including it would unfortunately only “waste minutes.” Something like that would be hard to even just pop into the background (as fun as that Easter Egg would be). It makes me feel as though there would not be room for attention for the magnificent Foreverwing, cool as it would be. I would love to see the dragon more. I really would. That said, I suspect that HTTYD 3 is not the best location for it.

[artblooger19moon]

Jagan

@cheekytom__

[kingofthewilderwest]

Adding to what Hybrid said, I don't think they meant to imply that Red Deaths can only control the most common, but that around Berk, for the most part, there just aren't that many other species to control, or at least wasn't at the time.

That would make sense! Hopefully with rephrasing the language we’re all on the same page. :) 

[zephyair]

Ever got story ideas you feel have awesome potential and could be something you think lots of people would like, but you’re not good with writing/doing comics, so it’s just kinda there, unused

Cuz lemme tell ya, I have tons