#aro community frustrations

[aroworlds]

Can I ask that, when we’re discussing and recommending creative media that isn’t just pride art content, like comics and music and fiction, we take the time to specify if something depicts aro-ace, non-SAM-using aro and/or allo-aro characters and/or experiences? That this, as much as it is possible to observe, becomes a standard part of how we communicate media in aro-spec spaces?

I acknowledge that it won’t always be possible, depending on the nature of the work. Some short pieces don’t have time to explore this, focusing more on general aromantic experiences; some works that are more about coded characters may not provide enough information to determine this. Some works will include lots of different kinds of aro-specs! If it is possible to determine that a character is a particular shade of aro-spec, though, and therefore their narrative is about that set of experiences, I’d really like to see folks make a point of observing this in their discussions and recommendations.

I’m seeing some circumstances where folks recommend aro content as simply that, aro content, but I click on it to discover that it’s really about aro-ace feelings and experiences, nobody ahead of me taking the time to observe this. If we’re not careful, we’re going to end up alienating allo-aro folks in assuming allo-aros can and should relate to all aro-ace representation.

(It can go the other way, too, where allo-aro content isn’t specified as allo-aro as opposed to generally aro, but I usually see this in places where aro-ace or aromantic and asexual is used as an identifying term but allo-aro is lumped under “aromantic”. In this case, the problem seems more a lack of recognition that allosexual aromantic is a term or category in use--uncommon outside of a-spec Tumblr.)

If an aro-ace story/character leans heavy on sexual repulsion or lack of interest, I struggle to find that it speaks to me as an aromantic. Even if it doesn’t lean hard on asexual experiences, aro-ace is something I relate to on the strength of my aromanticism, but it doesn’t depict my experiences of aromanticism shaped by allosexual attraction. (Something I increasingly wish to see in fictional media!) This is just a reality of the state of representation and a-spec history, not something I see shaped by intent; our dreams are several steps ahead of the shape of the broader a-spec community at present! But I would like an acknowledgement that any given aro-spec work depicts aro-ace, non-SAM-using aro or allo-aro characters/experiences (if appropriate for the work) so the community as a whole demonstrates the understanding that this particular story does not and should not represent all aro-specs.

For the same reasons that we specify a character as demiromantic or quoiromantic (if appropriate for the work) we need to say if they’re aro-ace, non-SAM-using or allo-aro. (And more detailed information on all characters’ a-spectrum identities, if extant.) It’s giving me the ability to make informed choices. All I want is to know that a piece is about aro-ace experiences, just so I don’t click on something labelled and tagged as generally aro only to discover that it requires me to also relate to experiences on the asexual spectrum. That is, I’ll admit, becoming increasingly difficult to take.

(The more I find myself as allo-aro, the harder it is for me to always find comfort and representation in media that treats asexual experiences as a universal accompaniment to aromanticism. And that, I think, is right and okay. You know I’m writing stories about allo-aro experiences right now; I have no expectation that aro-aces should connect to these. It is right and okay that not all creative works serve all aro-specs, especially when we’re writing about our own experiences and feelings! The goal of this blog is to support and encourage diverse aro-spec creativity so that every aro-spec someday finds representation that speaks to their unique intersectional identities and experiences--not to force aro-specs into writing stories that don’t speak to their own experiences, unless they freely wish to do so. People should write stories where aromanticism and asexuality are naturally inseparable; I’m just asking for an identifying tag.)

Again, I’ll stress that some media cannot be distinguished along thise lines; some works are just generally aro, neither aro-ace nor allo-aro. (Visual pride-flag works are often just aromantic and shouldn’t be shoved into an irrelevant category.) But if there is the capability to distinguish, if it is clear that not experiencing sexual attraction is part of an aro-spec character’s identity (or experiencing sexual attraction is part of a character’s identity), I’d really appreciate if observing this in our conversations becomes community habit. Just so folks can make informed choices as suiting their current needs of a work.

The aro-spec community is, generally, fairly good about this, but I have seen an increasing tendency to lapse. Before this becomes a widespread issue, I’d like to ask that my fellow aro-specs keep in mind the importance of letting folks know--by tags, by headers, by a mention inside a post--what kinds of aro characters or experiences any given work depicts.

[aroworlds]

I’m seeing an uptick in this of late, so may I please mention that words like “aphobia” and “arophobia” have an unpleasantly ableist connotation?

Folks are using a word that names a mental illness experience--I am a person with phobias talking here, one of them significantly disabling--to also describe hate and antagonism, just with slight modification to describe the target of said hate. (Just as many mental illness phobias also have this construction: arachnophobia, for example.) The dictionary definition of “phobia”, which I’ve seen used to justify the community use, is actually irrelevant here. A word that has a strong if not dominant association with a form of mental illness is used time and time again by all my LGBTQIA+/queer communities to describe hate and antagonism.

My mental illness is associated with the names of violent, damaging and erasing behaviours that hurt me on a variety of axes of gender identity and orientation while bearing no resemblance to my mental illness experience.

Can I ask you to stop and think about what that feels like? To have a word that describes my mental illness used as a synonym for hate, over and over again?

Because it is common-use language, I am constantly under pressure to just accept that this ableism is okay, to be quiet and watch all my communities wield this word. People who don’t have phobias tell me other terminology alternatives aren’t good enough or stress that phobia-terminology is so commonly used that we can’t and shouldn’t consider changing it. When I write posts about this, as I have many times on my personal blog, nobody listens. I am told, explicitly and implicitly, to just bear my discomfort and alienation so everyone else can keep on talking. Using these specific words is deemed more important than my safe participation in my own communities, even though I also have things to say about the hate and antagonism wielded at us.

You’ve probably noticed that I’ve tagged for this usage as #ableist language advisory. I also use words like “aromisia” and “aro antagonism” in my own writing. I don’t want to bog the blog down in conversations about this, so I won’t comment on asks or reblogged posts that include this word--I do feel that will make people anxious about communicating, and that isn’t my intent here. However, my alienation from this word is such that, after a couple of days of seeing it all over my dash, I can’t not say anything, either.

I know it won’t be easy to change conversations away from phobia-terminology. I’m not asking for perfection, because I know how ingrained the habit is. I’ve had to break it myself! I’m just asking for the attempt, so that more reblogged posts and community discussion pieces don’t associate my mental illness with experiences of hate that do me damage as an aro and a-spec.

Thank you so much for reading, and thank you for your understanding.

(Side note: no, the aro-spec community is absolutely not alone in this. Every other LGBTQIA+ and queer space I know of is just as bad, and it is truth that the a-spec community is mirroring language already in use by others--and mirroring it only because there aren’t enough conversations in other spaces about this unthinking ableism that has so taken root. I’m talking to the aro-spec community today because I think this is the only space where I have half a chance of being heard and respected by others--of people here listening and doing their best to support me as a mentally-ill aro.)

[aroworlds]

(aroace) i hope it's ok to reply to another asker like this..! if it isn't i won't do it again, but good god do i feel the discomfort of having the aro community push so hard back against the ace one. i do understand why- it's not easy having the stereotypes against aros the ace one can have, but i feel there's ways to push back against them that can strengthen solidarity through all people rather than trying to become as heavily split off as we seem to be aiming for. the divergence feels… Bad

It’s fine, anon! This is becoming a conversation less about flag design and colour choices and more about community identity, connection and expression, so it’d be wrong not to give folks voice here. As long as we’re all doing our best to talk to each other in good faith, that’s all that matters.

I just want to let you know, anon, that you are not alone in this. I don’t have your experiences, but I’ve had other aro-aces talk to me with the same sense of feeling torn between, so I can tell you, most definitely, that you are not the only one who feels this way. While I also think it’s happening from legitimate pain, I do think we can also use some public acknowledgement of the feelings of people being damaged by this.

I’ll also notice that every aro-ace who has talked to me, like you, has said that they understand why aro-specs are rejecting the ace-spec community. Every single one of you has acknowledged that, and I think that’s also worth noting, just to be clear that your response doesn’t come from a blithe disregard of aro erasure or any sense of ace-centrism.

I do think, generally, that a community recognition of ace and aro as the overarching umbrella identities is important, as well as providing people space to identify underneath them as they prefer. I also think that no aro-ace should be forced to identify with a shape of pride that doesn’t speak to them or suit them, and this is something important for us to recognise as a community. Having the community splinter into allo-aro, allo-ace and aro-ace would be a bad and dangerous thing, and it’s correct to be concerned about it.

We need to find a middle ground where aro-aces aren’t torn and allo-aros aren’t ignored and erased--where we all feel comfortable under our broader umbrellas.

Anon, would you mind PMing me off anon? I’d be interested in having someone write about how they feel with regards the divisions in aro and ace communities. I’d be happy to post it on anon for you, if you don’t feel safe enough doing this any other way, but I think it’d be important to start a conversation on your experiences and what you think the aro-spec community might do to foster a greater sense of unity with the ace-spec community while also challenging aro erasure. I think, based on your words, you have some ideas about building this solidarity, so let’s give them a space here and begin talking.

(Or, if you’d rather I don’t know who you are, submit a post via anon--I’ll only know your email address and you can use a fake or throw-away account.)

I don’t think finding a way forward from this is impossible if we can start a conversation sharing our feelings, our challenges and our imagined solutions.

[aroworlds]

I hope you all won’t mind if I say this:

I’m a new aro blogger. Most usernames following me here are new to me, meaning you’re probably not following my other blogs--and meaning that you don’t yet know much about me as a person beyond the face I show here. That’s okay; hopefully we’ll all have time to get to know each other! Yet I have a couple of anons expressing their difficulties and frustrations of being aro-spec in a-spec community spaces, conversations that veer away from the purpose of this blog.

I’m not writing this post to discourage these sorts of asks. I’m writing because I think this more than anything else represents the difficulty of being aro. We’re a small community. There aren’t thousands of aro blogs. A lot of our conversations focus on fighting direct aromisia, 101 information, support, positivity and validation. There are certainly a few individual bloggers who talk more directly about the nature of the aro community and the experience of being aro beyond identity: I’m thinking folks like @arokaladin, @arotaro or @aro-bot.

Yet there are still not that many posts in the way of discussions on our community and experience: for example, the complexity of our relationships to the ace-spec community, what it means to be aro-ace in that peculiar position of caught between and both, what it means to be aro-ace when the aro part of your identity is treated as less important than the ace, what it means to be allosexual aro in a world where aromanticism is treated as a way of being asexual, what it means to be aromantic and any non-ace sexual orientation identity as a whole identity, the way aromanticism is seen as a modifier of orientation identities instead of an orientation in its own right, the way aro-spec-umbrella identities are forgotten or treated as a modifier of being aromantic, the subtle shades of aromisia and amatonormativity--I could go on! Deep, complicated conversations about being aro that often have no easy answer but need discussing; conversations that require more safety and acceptance than most aros online have had in the last couple of years.

When you’re coming here to talk, we, the aro-spec community, have a problem, because it means aros don’t feel safe enough to talk elsewhere or don’t know where else to talk about it but still have the real, honest, human and correct need to talk. I know this post won’t make it outside aro-spec folks, but if I could get alloromantic folks to understand one thing, it’s this--what it actually means that we’re talking about aro community issues on a brand new aro media blog.

If you need to talk about aro community issues here, talk. Please. (I will tag anything from now on as #arospec community and #aro community frustrations so those who just want the media can blacklist.) I will admit that it distresses me, though--this feeling that folk are voicing things here because it might not be safe enough to talk anywhere else.

[aroworlds]

Sorry if that aspec ask was rude or something I was just a little unsure

Your ask wasn’t rude, anon–it really wasn’t! I hated that I had to write the answer the way I did, just because I couldn’t decide from which context it might have been coming (a good-faith ask versus the kind of targeted questioning designed to provoke an answer for which folks can send in hate). It’s honestly an awful thing, because it makes it so hard for folks to ask genuine questions and get supportive answers.

I’ve seen it before, so many times, where an anon asks a question that relates to a more pointed antagonistic view, the blogger answers, and a slew of hateful comments and asks arrives in response. Not even just that–often we get screencapped and vagued about on blogs dedicated to various shades of mocking and antagonism as well. One simple question, if we’re very unlucky, can be the direct route to being a regular target.

(I’ve had all of the above happen to me on my stim blog for the crime of being an aro autistic and saying so, and I’ve gotten off comparatively lightly compared to some bloggers, mostly because I tend to block without response.)

It’s the reason why many a-spec folks tend to answer “do you think a-specs are LGBT+?” questions with flat comments about not engaging in discourse, if anyone has wondered–because it’s not safe to make these kind of flat declarations. Because just saying something that has become politically charged on this website opens one up to anon hate. In a world where we need anon open so folks can ask questions (because it is not always safe for us to aro on main), it’s often easier just to sidestep the question altogether so we can, hopefully, continue to keep the anon option open for those who need it.

I know folks from other blogs will have, like me, had to think about common discussions and talking points here on Tumblr, how they’re going to respond to these things if questions arise, and how to best avoid hate while still having open exchanges with others. It’s also inevitable that in trying to dance across the top of this wobbling high-wire we will hurt people, screw up, speak the wrong viewpoint, handle the question incorrectly, alienate our followers or fail to help as we should have.

Antagonism on this website has become such a thing that certain good-faith questions can be a minefield of complications, and in many ways that hurts people who just genuinely want to know even more than the person providing the answer. If you want a lesson in how to shut down conversation inside and between communities, this is an exceptionally good one. It puts askers in a place where their good faith must be challenged; it puts answerers in a place of trying to find an impossible space between providing information and being safe.

It is my hope that all the aro-spec bloggers now will slowly craft a world where it is safe to talk about who we are and how we talk about ourselves, but right now, some certain conversations are difficult.

The blame for this isn’t on you or anything you did, anon. Not even remotely. I’m genuinely sorry I couldn’t answer your question in the spirit in which it was asked.

[aroworlds]

Am I the only one who is really bothered by the lack of aromantic related content in general? Like, so often I go looking for those relatable aro posts and the tag is just. Full of asexual things. I get that they're often connected, but they're definitely not the same thing and just ace posts shouldn't be taking up the aro tags. It's really disheartening.

Anon, I feel fairly confident in speaking for a not-insignificant portion of aro-spec folks when I say that you are absolutely not the only one. Some aros may not feel this way because we’re not a monolith, but based on other posts I see made by aros, you’re far, far from alone.

This is, in my opinion, a community-wide problem, and aro-spec folks have every right to feel uncomfortable, disheartened, frustrated or angry. It’s erasure. These tags are aro spaces. We should have every expectation of going into our space and discovering that we are the subject of that space.

It is awkward for me to talk about the ace part of my identity. I don’t connect to it strongly, and about half the time I feel more pan than ace. For this reason, I don’t think my feelings and experiences of being ace map well to those of all ace-spec folks, so I’m leery of talking about my relationship to being ace as though it is universal. But, as an ace, I do not want to see posts only about being ace in aro spaces. I’m not here for discussions about asexuality alone (as opposed to the experience of being aro-ace). I’m here to be proudly, wonderfully aro, to connect with other aro folks, to celebrate my aromantic experiences and identities. When you’re such a small sub-community, when you have minimal presence in larger LGBTQIA+ spaces and no presence outside them, this leaves you with less and less space to talk about who you are.

Honestly? I don’t go into the tags. There are tags for aro-spec folks to build a community around, but I don’t use them while looking for content for the aro-spec community. I find stuff to reblog by scrolling through aro or aro-spec community blogs (and I follow a couple I trust to only post aro-spec content) and I’m still having to scroll past a great many posts that are asexual-specific or a-spec-but-really-about-aces.

I started this blog because I got pissed off at seeing general a-spec blogs focus on ace creative media while saying just about nothing on the subject of aro creative media. I’m constantly scrolling through posts about aros alone labelled “ace”. I’m constantly scrolling through posts labelled “a-spec” that are just about the ace or feature multiple ace pride images with a single, solitary aro pride image. I’m constantly having to weigh up the amount of acceptable ace, to ignore more ace-pride Jughead that forgets his romance repulsion, to queue a really cool aro pride post while cringing because it was labelled as part of ace awareness week. Finding aro-centric pieces and resources is difficult!

I do believe that this conflation isn’t entirely on ace folks. I see a lot of pride images, resources and visual posts made by folks who are doing all main orientation identities, and I suspect that many of the posts that combine/confuse the ace and aro are made by folks who aren’t a-spec at all. I see a lot of positivity and validation posts made similarly by folks working through all the LGBTQIA+ identities. I see other LGBTQI+ folks latching onto “a-spec” as a way to include us without delving deep into our identities, experiences, issues or communities. I have definitely seen ace-spec folk tag something barely aromantic or not aromantic at all with aro tags, but I think there’s a percentage of this worth discussing coming from outside a-spec bloggers/spaces.

That said? We need our non-aro/alloromantic ace-spec cousins to step up and help. (I do not want to put this solely on the shoulders of aro-aces, who are already doing much of this.) We need our ace-spec kin to link to more posts about aros discussing aro-spec erasure, to boost and promote aro-spec works, to stop tagging non-aro content as “aromanticism”, to treat the erasure of aro-spec identities from aro-ace characters as the problem it is. Non-a-spec folks see the ace before they see the aro, so we need ace-spec folks to help direct that gaze towards us, to learn that there is overlap but also difference, to fight aro erasure alongside us. Aro folks are talking about this, but it’s hard for even other aros to hear these conversations in our tiny, ace-cluttered spaces, never mind folks outside our community. We need our ace allies to help get these conversations about aro-spec erasure into wider a-spec spaces–where they stand more chance of being seen by all a-spec folks.

This is a long post because I don’t do brevity, but anon, you are not alone in being bothered by this, and you have every right to be disheartened by what is erasure. Aro tags are for aro-spec folks. We shouldn’t have to wade through posts not about aros in our own spaces.

Said blogs, for I’d be remiss in not mentioning them: I follow @aggressivelyaromantic, @aggressivelyarospec, @theamazingaro, @notdaily-arospecdrawings, @arohumor. @actuallyaro leans more towards community discussions about aro identity, experience and amatonormativity without getting deep into exchange/response territory with other discoursers.

Please note that I try to avoid aro 101, aro positivity/validation and response-to-discourse blogs, as these don’t serve my particular needs as an aro, so it is a very short list! Some of these blogs will lean a little heavily towards the aro-ace and aromantic-and-asexual posts, but it is honestly difficult to run an aro blog and avoid this.

[aroworlds]

its funny cuz im aro and gay and my gayness almost feels like a modifier for my aromanticism! (is that how its spelled wowie)

Anon, I very much doubt you’re the only one who feels that way, but damn do we need more conversations (and media and storytelling!) about all the different ways we can relate to and conceptualise our aro-spec identities. There’s just so little conversation about how the different parts of us fit together and what that can mean to each aro–I know I feel alone sometimes, that I’m the only one in my tangle of ace and pan with a capital-letters-and-green-glitter aro, with identities that don’t quite fit the often limited ways of how they’re assumed to go together. I wish this, all of this, were more normalised.

Thank you so much for sharing with us, anon!

(And yes, aro identity/community conversations can be difficult because of the wording, which I think can be particularly hard on ND and disabled aro-specs, or aro-specs who don’t speak English as a first language, be it through spelling, choosing the correct word or amount of typing/dictating. For this reason, I want it to be clear that nobody should fear interacting through misspelling or wrong word use. Words are hard.)

[aroworlds]

I don’t know what’s up with all this today, since I’m seeing cissexism, transmisogyny and exorsexism being discussed on a couple of different aro blogs, concerning a couple of different people. I’m quite disappointed, given that for so long the aro-spec community felt so unquestioningly accepting of all trans, non-binary, genderqueer, agender and cultural gender folks--in a way often not afforded to us in broader LGBTQIA+ spaces.

Regardless, here’s a quiet reminder that the only aro-spec community I’m interested in promoting and nurturing is one that’s unequivocally supportive of one’s right to declare one’s gender, genders, shifting gender or lack of gender and be referred to by and naturally included within the names, terms and pronouns each individual dictates as appropriate for their gender, genders, shifting gender or lack of gender. One’s AGAB (assigned gender at birth) or shape/degree of transitioning is no barrier to allowing someone the basic respect and dignity of being treated as the person they say they are. One’s relationship to or distance from the gender binary is no barrier to allowing someone the basic respect and dignity of being treated as the person they say they are.

Being of the aromantic spectrum is for many of us an experience of looking at a carelessly amatonormative world and saying no, your narrow assumptions on how to be human don’t suit or include me, please let me live as best suits me with the same support and acceptance you take for granted. How can we be here fighting against amatonormativity as aro-specs while declaring the exact same philosophy inappropriate for non-cis folks on the spectrum of gender identity?

It seems to me that an aro-spec who understands and appreciates the true, accepting spirit of the aro-spec community cannot then go and deny trans, NB, GQ, agender and cultural gender aro-specs this same acceptance. Most of us, I think, are not anywhere near so hypocritical as to do this, but it saddens me that there’s a few outlying people who are.

And as a trans, agender aromantic: my blog, my content and my activism is not for someone who rejects the legitimacy of my gender identity and experiences. You have no right to disrespect me and my fellow non-cis aro-specs while still thinking to take advantage of our efforts in building this community.

We’re here. We’re not a minority in aro-spec spaces. We’re helping to build the roof under which you’re seeking to shelter. Respect us non-cis aro-specs as we deserve or stand in the rain on your own.

Disregarding someone’s right to declare their own gender identity and be respected as a person of that gender identity based on your ignorance and hatred isn’t and will never be in the spirit of the aro-spec community.

And for the cis aro-specs I’ve seen step up and declare that they won’t allow cissexism, exorsexism and transmisogyny as any kind of norm in their aro-spec spaces, thank you.