#asktheherd

[seventeendeer]

might be a pandora's box but can you explain Surge and Kit's whole deal? i only just recently started paying attention to the comics so id love to hear about em from the resident Surge enthusiast c:

hahaaa yea I can do that ... :) [BOSS MUSIC PLAYS ON FULL VOLUME FROM MY BEAUTIFUL MIND]

these two quickly became some of my favorite Sonic characters of all time, so I'm treating everybody to the five course explanation-and-analysis meal on this one. any excuse to talk about my favs. let's rock!!!!

Surge and Kit are, in short, a couple of kids who were experimented on by an evil scientist to turn them into approximate replicas of Sonic and Tails. however, they were so emotionally broken by the experience that they no longer trust anyone but each other, and they've become cynical and destructive as a result.

their story starts with Doctor Starline, Doctor Eggman's former understudy, who became disillusioned after Eggman turned on him. Starline had spent his entire career looking up to Eggman, and it's strongly implied he was in love with him, so he took the breakup about as well as you'd expect.

Starline decides the only way to win Eggman back is to take over the world for him, and to this end, he needs to get rid of Sonic. his plan is to create a super soldier under his control who will kill Sonic, then replace him as the world's "hero", so Starline can control the narrative around heroes and villains in the eyes of the public.

he somehow comes into possession of a girl around Sonic's age, wipes her memories, and installs a new personality in her that is meant to emulate Sonic ... but she obviously becomes "Sonic" as filtered through Starline's not-so-generous perception of him: a brash, self-centered egomaniac with no impulse control. and then he gives her superpowers. and then he puts her through training so dangerous, she is repeatedly killed and has to be revived over and over. her trauma response manifests as fits of extreme anger, which makes her more and more difficult to control. Surge is born, and she's a much bigger handful than Starline bargained for.

to aid her in the field, Starline also puts another kid through the same procedures, creating Kitsunami. Kit is based on Tails, whom Starline sees as a spineless, mindless follower, who does whatever Sonic tells him to do. unlike Surge, Kit responds to their circumstances by becoming extremely fearful. he's easier for Starline to bully into submission, but he still struggles to fulfill his purpose because of his emotional troubles.

to try to keep the two of them in line, Starline begins to use a combination of hypnosis and straight up gaslighting to manipulate them into continuing to follow his lead.

it's often emphasized that Sonic and Tails consider each other family-by-choice, and as a very bleak narrative contrast, Starline, Surge and Kit develop an abusive family dynamic. it becomes clear Starline finds Surge annoying, often ignores her, and instead interacts more directly with Kit, if only because Kit is so afraid of him that he'll do whatever he tells him to do without any back-talk. Surge, who desperately craves attention as part of her artificially implanted personality, becomes resentful of Kit for being their "parent's" favorite, and so she becomes emotionally abusive toward Kit as well, which only makes him more desperate to placate her.

however, Surge and Kit eventually manage to work together long enough to find out the truth Starline has been hiding from them - that their personalities and goals were fabricated, that they used to be regular people before he changed them into what they are now, and that Starline is only using them to further his own goals. what was left of Surge's restraint disappears, and she decides to kill Starline, Eggman, Sonic and anyone else who had a hand in destroying her life. Kit loses what was left of his goodwill toward others and grows cold, deciding to join Surge on her revenge quest. though things don't go exactly according to plan, Starline does end up dead, and his traumatized kids with superpowers are let loose on the world.

since then, Surge and Kit have been recurring villains. Surge is impulsive and her exact goals change with her whims, but the one constant is that she wants Sonic dead so she won't have to live in his shadow as a flawed copy. Kit's obsessive loyalty to Surge only becomes further solidifed over time, everything he's ever experienced (that he remembers) telling him that she's the only one he can trust in a world full of selfish, callous people who only want to hurt him. though they get better at working together, they also develop a deadly level of codependence - in her attempts to achieve her goals, Surge constantly burns herself out, emotionally and physically, and ends up relying heavily on Kit to comfort and protect her when she's at her lowest, while Kit is completely reliant on Surge to give him purpose and direction. it's also obvious that even as Surge begins to reign in the verbal abuse a little bit, Kit remains scarred from everything she and Starline put him through, and at the end of the day he's still terrified of her.

the devil is really in the details with these two. they're powerful and have big personalities, which makes them iconic as villains, but they're also just a couple of traumatized kids who have been through hell and are dealing with it the only way they know how. there are so many little heartbreaking moments that really drive home how damaged they are, including ...

... Surge having a psychotic episode where she hallucinates Starline as the voice of her own self-hatred

... Kit repeatedly rejecting support from other characters in his desperation to avoid facing Surge's wrath

... both of them rejecting friendship from characters who treat them kindly out of paranoia, while feeling drawn to people who openly dislike them (Surge especially seems to be trying to fill the void Starline left behind by getting attention from people who mistreat her)

... gravitating toward other older villains who prey on their trauma to keep them under control

... hyper-vigilance, implied insomnia, a total lack of self-worth, restlessness, fawning behavior

and despite everything they've been through, even knowing full well that they were brainwashed and all of their emotional responses are fabricated, they've still ended up on the exact path Starline planned for them. Surge recently decided that she wants to be a "hero" after all to try to gain the attention she desperately craves, and Kit enthusiastically supports her dream. Kit has even started developing a sinister side that is the spitting image of Starline's methods - to make sure Surge will get what she wants, he goes behind her back to orchestrate disasters for her to solve, lying to her face about what's really going on the entire time. it doesn't seem to occur to him that he's hitting one of her worst triggers - being manipulated and kept out of the loop. it's kind of hair-raising, because he's just a little kid modeling his behavior on the only people he remembers knowing and he is sincerely only trying to make his "sister" happy ... but Surge is so scared of being lied to and used, and when she gets scared, she lashes out. unless she gets a lot of healthy character development really quickly, Kit could end up in a lot of trouble. did I mention Surge has lightning-based powers, Kit has water-based powers, and it's already been shown that Starline didn't bother to make him immune to electricity?

and yet despite all their dysfunctions, it's also clear that deep (deep) down, Surge at least has a good heart that even Starline couldn't beat out of her, and she genuinely wants to earn love and respect from the masses, and she cares about doing it the right way. Kit no longer has the capacity to care about most people, but for all her faults, he loves Surge and when she's happy, he is too. Surge is visibly putting effort into reigning in her temper when Kit seems afraid of her, and while Kit's scheming is ... concerning, at the very least he's become confident enough to do things by himself without needing constant reassurance from Surge. even as they're doing exactly what they're designed to do, there are all these little signs that they're starting to heal just a little bit in certain ways.

when they do get along, it's also just absolutely adorable. I am rooting hard for their friendship to continue to develop in a more healthy direction, against all odds. it's not good for them to rely so heavily on each other while shutting themselves off from everyone else, but at least with Starline out of the way, some of the pressure is off, and things aren't as bad as they have been for either of them. they were "born" in a horrible environment, and while it's a steep climb for them to get better and they develop various new neuroses along the way, there is hope for them.

and that's the deal! I left out a few details, like Kit's developing rivalry with Tails, because this post is already super long and I wanted to focus on Surge and Kit as individuals and their relationship to each other. I've been a Sonic fan since I was a kid, but these two have skyrocketed up my list of favorite characters in just the last few years. it's true I hype up Surge more because I just think she's cool, but really it's the weird little friendship between the two of them that has me super invested. I love how complicated it is, that push-pull of their toxic patterns VS moments of genuine solidarity

moral of the story is, don't be mean to your siblings, unionize with them and plot your shitty dad's demise instead <3

[seventeendeer]

I'm v glad someone else has such a strong reaction to Ramb - especially given how like, Dark worlds and their inhabitants are shaped by those that create them.

I feel like Ramb says a lot about Kris, especially if read as like, a mirror to Kris' depression. Like, Ramb has deep desire to find fun and meaning (or at least to help Kris do so), and like, when I get depressed I know that's a very dominant feeling.

Of course though, if Ramb is read metaphorically... his death is probably a reflection of Kris' fears. They have a ❤️ possessing them, and no one has noticed. Ramb's death being met with apathy and distaste for being annoying is probably a fear Kris could have - a fear that they could be replaced entirely, and nobody would miss the real them, only remembering their true self as an annoying phase.

I definitely think this read has a lot of merit, especially in conjunction with the secret scene where Kris ends up standing behind the counter of Ramb's shop, watching Susie and Ralsei play games together, but being unable to say anything or cross the counter to join them.

in order to see this scene, you have to enter the room leading to the "secret game" (Mantle), then go south through a door hidden by the camera angle. it's just Susie and Ralsei, playing together in silence. previously, Ralsei rejected playing this very same game, saying he was happy just "watching", and that Kris and Susie should play together instead. but in Kris' absence, Ralsei will try the game for himself. IIRC it is also after this segment that, when Kris reunites with their friends, Ralsei will mention he got so caught up in playing that he forgot all about Kris.

in Deltarune, a major theme is the hierarchy of who is more "real." the Darkners are only manifestations of the Lightners' minds. the Lightners are only characters in a simulated reality. Gaster may be somewhat more "real" than the rest, if he created Deltarune in-universe, but we, the players, still know he's only a fictional character. the only person in this equation who is undoubtedly real is the player. to be "someone who plays games" is to be "someone who is real."

throughout chapter 3, we see Ralsei warming up to the idea of playing games. it's a clear parallel to him beginning to take a few shakey steps toward conceiving of himself as a person with feelings and worth outside of what he can do for the Lightners. so what does that mean for Kris in this scene - suddenly stuck behind a counter, where normally there is a shopkeeper NPC, unable to do anything but watch their friends play games?

I think you're right that Kris is afraid of dying in obscurity, their true self unloved and unmissed. their existence is being choked out by the player; a being higher up on the "realness" scale who is better at making friends than they are, better at being loved than they are. at the same time, they are watching their friends' burgeoning personhood - Susie, who always took her own personhood for granted and refused to slot into her role as simply another party member for the player to use, and Ralsei, who is learning to conceive of himself as real and valuable through Susie's support - and knowing they are losing their own.

Ramb is just a power strip. Kris is just a body. Ramb was taken from the library and doesn't belong in TV World. Kris is a human who was adopted by the Dreemurrs and doesn't belong in Hometown. if the way the prophecy about Kris is worded is any indication, they may not even be a body, or a human, only "a cage with human parts." it's long been my theory that even the body Kris is using wasn't originally theirs. they just want to be real, to be alive, to be free, but they may have no real claim to this reality at all.

ultimately, we turn them back around, walk them out of the shop, and, most likely, force them to go play Mantle. even the player character from Mantle eventually escapes. and all that's left is Kris, still under our control, and Ramb who dies in obscurity right in front of their eyes. ouch

[seventeendeer]

I wanted to ask since I love hearing your thoughts, what did you think of chaotix casefiles overall now that it's done?

thank you for wanting to hear my thoughts! the podcast turned out to have a lot of stuff I really loved, but also some stuff I found really difficult to look past. I both enjoyed it and ended up kind of relieved when it was over LMAO

what I liked:

I thought it was funny! the comedic timing was great, and the more "natural" voice direction worked great for a comedy-focused podcast.

I generally thought the voice direction was very nice, Vector's "detective voice" narration was surprisingly pleasant, and many characters who normally have hit-or-miss voice direction (like Rouge) sounded great.

like so many other people, I was WAY HYPED to hear Tangle and Whisper in a voiced appearance! I am so, so happy they made an appearance, they were one of the biggest highlights for me. I thought they were excellently written and I love the casting choices.

another standout point for me was Infinite's reappearance! Forces is one of my favorite Sonic games, and Infinite is special to me by extension. it was a great idea to reintroduce him as a surprise big bad in a mystery story like this, the slow reveal that he was behind everything worked well and was appropriately climactic for such a major character who's been out of the picture for so long. his writing was hugely improved over his previous appearance, and his new voice actor absolutely knocked it out of the park. I'm so happy it seems like he's now been set up as a potential recurring villain!

I was also a big fan of Vanilla and Gemerl's new voice actors' performances! I was especially relieved to hear Vanilla portrayed with a voice more similar to her Japanese voice than the one she had in the English Sonic X dub.

didn't love these parts:

while most of the characters' voices were great, I'm not big on the voice direction for Charmy here. it's a bit too evident that the voice actress is hitting way above her natural range. the same actress does a fantastic job voicing Tails, but I think the pressure to make Charmy sound notably different from him poses too much of a challenge for one person. there are only so many ways an adult woman can convincingly portray a little boy.

I didn't enjoy the main characters' personal arcs. the story invented problems for each of the Chaotix, pushed these sources of conflict in a way that felt unnatural to me, and bent the narrative out of shape to develop and resolve them. IMO, these personal arcs were poorly integrated into the main plot and felt distracting. I don't think a personal journey was really necessary for this story, there are many other ways to create an emotional connection with the audience. either the team could've had a shared conflict to save time (potentially all sharing an emotional slump where they feel like wannabe detectives who will never amount to anything?), or there could've been conflicts in their relationships to each other instead so they weren't constantly monologuing about their personal problems at random intervals.

while the "noir genre" angle was fun in theory, I felt like this theming ended up shallow and distracting. ultimately, it had little influence on anything except the genre of the show's theme song and the style of Vector's narration. at times, it felt like the story tried to play into/parody tropes from the genre, but it never committed. for example, Torii's introduction was clearly a shout-out to the "dame with a case" trope, but since she's ultimately not that kind of character, the only parallel we hear is that Vector thinks she's hot in a mysterious kind of way. it's a really random, out-of-place moment of objectification that feels super weird in a vacuum. if she'd played into the archetype more, it would've gelled alright, but as it stands, it just comes off like a strange OOC moment for Vector. especially because he's telling this story in-universe to Sonic and Eggman. I think they should've either tailored the story according to the genre more closely as a properly developed parody, or dropped the aesthetic altogether.

I think the initial framing device of Vector telling the story to Sonic and Eggman while captured worked fine for the most part; however, when the story switched to real-time action the audio play stylization took a huge hit. the final two episodes sound very clunky to me with Vector's narration mostly missing. characters constantly describing what's happening to them sounds very awkward in the middle of the big climax. Vector "directing" the other characters from his cell during the final fight did not land at all for me either, since it boils down to obvious shit like "knife-thrower guy, throw knife!" like some kind of pokémon trainer LMAO (compare to how Vector's ability to lead a team is portrayed in the IDW comics, where he comes up with actual multi-part plans beyond just shouting basic suggestions)

I think the podcast set up more stuff than it ultimately paid off on - the plot had lots of moving parts in the beginning with the main characters, the mysterious culprit, Rouge, G.U.N. and a few new human characters all getting up to different interesting things, but many of these interesting plot hooks were wrapped up hastily with poor payoff in the second half of the story in favor of a more straightforward action adventure plot. many facets of the story that felt significant in the beginning just kind of slid off the wind screen as the plot moved on (e.g. Mr. Kitsch taking Jewel's place at the mineral museum, which seemed suspicious in the moment, but was completely innocuous; Rouge's repeated appearances going nowhere beyond functioning as a hint fairy for the Chaotix to get them unstuck on the main plot).

what I absolutely hated:

I'm gonna keep it real with you. the misogyny in this miniseries reeks. it draws a hard line between female characters who are simply people and female characters who are intended to be hot. the majority of the female characters receive perfectly good characterization, but the women singled out as attractive - mainly Rouge and Vanilla - are completely soulless. they seem to exist solely to speak sexily really close to the microphone. their characterization is flat and lifeless, and their usual character traits are either ignored or downplayed in favor of extensive fanservice scenes. I found this deeply uncomfortable, both as a fan of those characters, and as someone who just generally hates when this franchise tries to portray its cutesy little cartoon animals as sexy. some lightly suggestive material is fine for the #aesthetic (as always, I'm a huge fan of Rouge's potrayal in the mid-00's), but their portrayal here was so blatantly objectifying that it was uncomfortable to listen to.

Rouge specifically was entirely wasted as a character. she's a femme fatale in a detective story, and yet she has zero effect on the plot beyond sharing a couple of bits of intel with the Chaotix? additionally, other recent franchise material portrays Rouge as generally disdainful of the Chaotix, with no respect for their work. she steals contracts out from under them because she alone is a better agent than the three of them combined. her reasons for helping them out here are extremely poorly established. it brings up the question of why the Chaotix are the main characters and not Rouge. she ends up having to hold their hands throughout the entire series just so they'll get anywhere with their case, and she does so for no reason. her helping them out is attributed to her randomly growing a crush on Espio, which comes out of nowhere and goes nowhere. it seems like an excuse for 1. having her drip feed them information so the plot can move along and 2. so, again, she has an excuse to sexy-talk into the microphone. her aggressive flirting feels forced and OOC, and there's no payoff. usually the way her character is played is that she pretends to be interested in someone in order to manipulate them, which creates this false setup where I at least personally expected (and hoped) for some kind of twist to her subplot, only for this extremely superficial take on her to be played entirely straight. her characterization was so poor that I half-expected her to be an imposter, which would've tied into the main plot better, but no, she was just extensively mischaracterized for no reason beyond monumental levels of creepy fanservice.

Vanilla also makes her big comeback as a voiced character for the first time since the 00's, but her role exclusively amounts to "Cream's hot mom" yet again, actually quite similar to how she was sometimes portrayed in her previous voiced appearance in Sonic X. in the few scenes where she appears, she only exists to take care of the Chaotix in their darkest hour and inspire Vector to get back in the game. one of her scenes is butchered because Vector, as the narrator, starts making shit up about how she was hitting on him. she seems to exist exclusively as some kind of MILF fantasy, someone who babies and takes care of the central male hero when he needs it, while also being appropriately fuckable after the fact. it's creepy and it sucks. Vanilla desperately needs stronger characterization and more roles outside of being a mother and love interest, but this opportunity to add more facets to her character is completely squandered. Vector also comes across as a misogynistic creep in her feature episode with the way he puts words in her mouth and takes no interest in her as a person. FYM he had a personal heart-to-heart with her under the stars after a crummy day and all he cares about was that he was sad and she was hot ??? it's completely unlike the more mature, empathetic, level-headed characterization he's received in other recent appearances, which I think is so much more charming. Vector works much better as a character when he's smart and kind and caring! he's a goofball and a bit rough around the edges, but he's a good dude who should've been way more eager to tell Sonic and Eggman about how wise and kind Vanilla is first and foremost !!!! that's what makes him so lovable!!!! he's a dorky weirdo eccentric, but he cares so much!!!!

I think that covers it! overall I thought the podcast was a fun experiment, and there are parts of it I just adore, but to be honest the parts that really didn't work kind of ruined it for me. the misogyny was so loud and such a constant presence in the plot that it soured the listening experience for me.

I'm less excited about the podcast itself and more excited about what parts of it mean for the franchise going forward. Tangle and Whisper gaining voiced appearances, plus Infinite's return, makes me think these characters will be prominently featured in other stories in the future, and that's awesome!!!! but I'm not eager to listen to the podcast again, I don't think I can stomach another round of listening to Rouge and Vanilla doing all that anytime soon 😭

[seventeendeer]

I NEEED more Evil Green Yuri, PLEASE I AM BEGGING YOU, if I wasn't a poor mf I would literally pay you that's how desperate I am to see those two emerald dyed baddies.

I'm working on a bunch of other art at the moment, but just for YOU 🫵 I will share some disconnected thoughts/headcanons about my favorite green bastard lesbian crackship to tide you over !!

thank you for enjoying my visions, I'm sure I'll draw the girlies again sometime as well! 💚💚

- they first encounter each other during one of Zeena's leisure trips, when she decides to rough up a local town for funsies and Surge pops by to take another stab at the whole "hero" thing. in a one-on-one fight, Surge is the stronger of the two by a mile, but she goes easy on Zeena because she thinks she's cute, and ultimately offers to call off the battle if she'll go out with her. Zeena decides she likes Surge's moxie and goes along with it, and they ditch the busted-up town to go goof off with each other instead.

- Surge is bisexual and refuses to think about it too deeply. she was essentially raised by a gay man, so she's used to same-gender attraction in concept, and she likes going against the grain anyway. on the other hand, Zeena is a deeply repressed lesbian DROWNING in comphet hell. for the entire duration of her relationship with Surge, she still only considers herself bicurious at most, and afterwards she still doesn't understand why it all somehow ended up feeling much more real than the on-and-off relationships she's had with her myriad of ex-boyfriends over the years. like a lot of young/lower-ranking Zeti, she's used to ignoring a certain level of baseline misery, so she's all but forgotten how to connect with her own deeper feelings at all.

- even though they're in the same age range, Zeena's species having a much longer lifespan does impact their relationship to an extent; on a meta level it's something similar to a two-year age gap. Surge thinks of Zeena as a "cool older girl" she wants to impress. Zeena likes the power trip of someone wanting to impress her, but also perceives Surge as somewhat obnoxious and immature.

- on a related note, while Zeena has previous relationship experience, Surge has no idea what she's doing. she's just copying what she's seen in movies with incredible confidence, and somehow it works. when Zeena realizes, she teases her about it relentlessly, but Surge is pretty sure the joke's on her, because Zeena's the one that fell for her cheesy pickup lines in the first place.

- while they mostly start dating each other for superficial/ego-driven reasons, they also both represent something the other longs for. Surge envies Zeena's lavish lifestyle and how she always seems to get whatever she wants, by manipulation or by force. Zeena envies Surge's freedom.

- there's also a certain loneliness behind their drive to spend time together. Surge generally feels drawn to people who treat her poorly and wants to prove herself to them because of her unfinished business with Starline; earning the love and approval of someone as cold-hearted as Zeena feels healing. Zeena technically has "friends" who are more similar to herself on a superficial level, but the social scene she's used to is as much of a power struggle as everything else back home, so she knows they'll stab her in the back at the first opportunity. spending time with someone completely outside of that social sphere makes her feel safe for once.

- at the same time, they fundamentally don't respect each other all that much. Surge looks down on Zeena for being vain and conformist. while she does genuinely connect with Zeena emotionally, moreso than she's aware of at first, she also falls into the trap of seeing her as a prize to show off first and a person with feelings second. Zeena sees Surge the same way she sees all surface dwellers: short-sighted, naive and cloyingly sentimental. she does find her funny and endearing as well, but if it wasn't for the whole "hyper-violent living super weapon" thing, she wouldn't find her cool enough to hang with. Zeena also has zero faith in Surge's ability to turn her life around and become a real hero, convinced deep down she'll always be a monster with no heart like herself

- Zeena frequently takes advantage of Surge's wish to prove herself to her, especially if she wants something or someone beaten up and is feeling too lazy to do so herself (annoying ex-boyfriends are a common target). unfortunately for Zeena, Surge sometimes brings Kit along as backup for the more dicey jobs. Zeena finds Kit deeply unsettling, but she doesn't want to test her luck with Surge's temper on this specific subject too much, so she tries to pretend she doesn't mind him (and Surge pretends to be fooled because seeing her squirm is really, really funny). Kit surprisingly accepts Zeena's presence in the periphery of his life without complaint. he can't claim to really "get" why Surge tolerates her more than most people, but he also gets the impression romantic relationships operate under special rules somehow ... as long as Surge is happy, he figures it's best to keep his head down and simply support her like he always does. Zeena makes Surge happy, and her happiness is all he cares about. he's obviously also keeping a running list of all of Zeena's strengths and weaknesses because nothing good ever lasts in this world and he's seeing that explosive breakup coming from a mile away, but that's all just part of being the plans guy👍

- because Zeena is a technopath and Surge is a cyborg, Zeena can actually mildly interfere with some of Surge's biological processes. however, this only really amounts to being able to psychically make her trip over her own feet or making her miss her mouth when she's trying to eat, which ... can arguably be accomplished by mundane means also. great for when Surge is bothering her and she doesn't want to get out of her chair to put her in a headlock though

- speaking of not wanting to get out of her chair, a certain amount of Zeena's "laziness" is due to chronic fatigue. Surge somewhat callously could not care less, because it gives her an excuse to carry her places and feel big and tough doing so. Zeena will accept the disrespect if it means not having to walk though. no one has the courage to tell them how goofy little half-pint Surge looks hauling around a monster girl almost a head taller than her, they're both clearly convinced they look like something out of a movie poster

- Zeena has a strong sense of team pride and is protective of Surge; she won't stand for anyone disrespecting her in her presence!! Surge does not match this energy in the slightest, she has zero protective instincts and will only stand up for Zeena if she can use it as an excuse to get into fights. on the other hand, Surge is quick to get explosively jealous.

- they mostly spend time together either outside or at Surge's place. Zeena utterly detests the poor people accommodations Surge calls an apartment, but it beats having to sneak her in through the window back at the castle on Lost Hex. she knows very well if Surge ended up in a room with one of her idiot colleagues, someone would die, and in all honesty, it probably wouldn't be Surge. not worth the drama, it would be a whole thing

- she's not as sneaky as she thinks, however. Zeena dating Surge is what eventually alerts Zavok to Surge and Kit's existence, and he manages to put two and two together and identify them as Starline's former test subjects. he quickly takes an interest in the duo, impressed with the way they've successfully outlived and outgrown Starline's plans for them - particularly noting their mutual loyalty, as well as Surge growing into the kind of leader Starline never could be (though it's faint praise coming from him). Zavok urges Zeena to try to recruit the two of them, and this is the first time Zeena considers the possibility of Surge "rising above her nature" to become her true equal. maybe then they could stay together ...

- Surge of course has the exact combination of trauma and neuroses to be freaked out at the thought of being recruited by a third bossy old man who only wants to use her power for his own gain, and harshly rejects Zeena's invitation to join her "pack." this confrontation leads to both girls realizing for the first time how similar they really are - Surge could have been Zeena if she'd prioritized gaining power and influence over her personal freedom - but it also becomes clear as day how set they both are on their respective paths. Zeena has committed to enduring servitude and abuse if it means she can subjugate others in turn. Surge wants to be free, and in her own ineffective way, she's trying to earn others' love and admiration. they're both too different and too alike for comfort.

- afterwards, their relationship begins to sour. in her paranoia, Surge becomes possessive and controlling, suddenly simultaneously aware of how much she wants to keep Zeena around and also how doomed their relationship is. she also wants to prove to Zeena that her own way of doing things is superior, in part to quell her own insecurities. it's ultimately Zeena who breaks up with Surge. she won't stand for being told what to do by some lowlife who's no fun to be around anymore anyway.

- while their relationship only lasts like 3 months, it kicks off a lifelong rivalry. post-breakup, they consider each other arch enemies, but they keep ending up getting back together every few years to try to relive the "good old days", only for things to get more complicated. I like to think the power of friendship will get Surge on the right path eventually, but she just seems like the type who's never going to outgrow hitting rock bottom every 5 years and deciding to text her ex about it LMAO

[seventeendeer]

i hereby use this ask to hear about Metal Sonic from a fellow enjoyer of that little machine (she's one of my top favorites <3)

[clarification: I like to interpret Metal Sonic as transfem, and I take it this anon does as well - for the portion of this ask where I talk about canon, I'll be using he/him, then switch to she/her when I get to the trans allegory read I like so much further down!]

excellent choice of fav, anon, Metal is awesome!! let me prattle off all the Metal Sonic lore I know, then touch on some analysis stuff after <3

Metal Sonic was first introduced in Sonic CD, 1993. he was the first character to fill the role of "Sonic's rival + narrative foil, who has a similar-yet-contrasting look and powerset", which would go on to become a stable of the franchise. a neat bit of trivia is that Sonic CD, although released a year after Sonic the Hedgehog 2, is actually a direct sequel to the original Sonic the Hedgehog; CD and 2 were in production at the same time. this is why Tails, introduced in 2, does not show up in CD. in a roundabout way, this means you could theoretically count Metal as an alternative "first" recurring supporting character added to the series (along with Amy, also originally from CD).

I'm a little rusty on the details, because the 90's era isn't within my field of expertise, but back during the classic era, "Metal Sonic" was almost more of a species than a singular character. the original Metal Sonic was killed at the end of CD; Doctor Eggman would go on to build new and improved versions across the classic era, including identical copies, as well as alternate robotic Sonic replicas like Mecha Sonic. later canon would retcon Metal's death by establishing that Eggman managed to salvage his original AI to use for future projects. I think it's safe to say any character appearing under the original name of "Metal Sonic" is now considered the same person. to my knowledge, the only other Sonic robot that survived into the modern era is Mecha Sonic, who recently resurfaced in the comic book mini-series Scrapnik Island.

Metal Sonic himself was reintroduced into the modern era of games in Sonic Heroes in 2003, where he served as the main villain. he would go on to become a playable character in Rivals and Rivals 2 just a few years later. his next big role would be as the final boss of Free Riders. unfortunately, outside of these games, he's mostly been relegated to minor roles in the games - though he did once again serve as the big bad in the first arc of the Sonic IDW comic series, where he's been a major recurring villain ever since. it's possible that his upcoming appearance in the Paramount movie adaptations will bring him back into the limelight in the games once again, similar to what was done with Shadow.

because he usually serves as Eggman's voiceless enforcer, Metal's true personality is somewhat mysterious. in Heroes and Free Riders he turned against Eggman in order to gain power for himself. although Eggman has attempted to patch out these "flaws" in Metal's code, other installments make it clear Metal remains conflicted about living in subservience. as I touched on in my analysis post about the series' central theme of "freedom" and how Sonic's different rivals serve as commentary on the subject, Metal Sonic's emotional turmoil is likely intended to play into the long history of robotic characters representing a worker suffering labor exploitation. Doctor Eggman serves as the face of industralization/capitalism VS the animal characters who represent and protect the natural resources he wants to harness in his quest for total world domination. in this conflict, Metal Sonic is the "perfect worker", who serves his "purpose" better than all the rest, yet is nonetheless unable to find fulfillment in his work because of the inherent misery of living to serve someone else.

this dynamic between Metal and Eggman also casts an interesting light on their personal relationship to each other, which is sometimes more-or-less subtextually played as father/son-like. in this context, it's easy to interpret their conflict as not only that of an exploitative work relationship, but also as a father who refuses to allow his child to grow up - not out of concern for Metal's safety, but rather because Eggman created him and thus feels entitled to maintain control over him. there are some direct parallels here to Black Doom's parental entitlement towards Shadow.

in this relationship, Metal Sonic also stands in direct contrast to Sage, his younger "sister", whom Eggman explicitly thinks of as a daughter. unlike Metal, Sage is perfectly subservient to Eggman and wants nothing in life except to see him safe and happy, to the point where she's ready to die for him in the very first game in which she appears. Sonic Frontiers portrays Sage and Eggman's budding family relationship as heartwarming, but as I talked about in my post on the franchise's history with misogyny, the fact that the only person Eggman is able to bond with emotionally is an AI he programmed himself, who takes on the personality of a little girl who's perfectly obedient to her father, is fitting for Eggman's character in a way I think is a lot more bleak than was perhaps intended. in the context of Eggman as a controlling father figure and Sage as his youngest child who is naively devoted to him to the point of self-destruction, Metal Sonic's inner turmoil can be read as the older child/teenager who is aware something's off about the family's power dynamics, but has given up on making a better life for himself.

at the end of The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog, Metal and Sage make a cameo together where they're both wearing shirts that say "go dad" in reference to Eggman, showing a sibling relationship is at least on the writers' radar. it'll be interesting to see if they do anything with the characters' contrasting personalities. while Frontiers portrays Eggman and Sage's relationship as sweet, it's not impossible that we'll see a more complicated portrayal in the future; the Sonic IDW comics have previously portrayed a deliberately-horrifying toxic family dynamic with a different set of characters in the Imposter Syndrome mini-series, so it's not like these themes are unprecedented in the franchise.

on the subject of Eggman's parental possessiveness over Metal, as mentioned at the beginning of this post, I also think it adds another dimension to Metal's character if you read her(!) as a transfem allegory. this reading is almost certainly unintentional, but the amount of accidental transgender subtext in Metal's character is honestly kind of staggering!

the obvious "clue" is that Metal Sonic was built to kill-and-replace Sonic, but no matter how hard she tries to emulate her target, she can never beat him, and she can never be him. no matter how her creator/parent has tried to make her look and function a certain way, she can never be what her father wants her to be, because on the inside, she is her own person. Metal was created to fill the role of a boy, but she isn't one. she's literally painted blue. her father quite literally never allowed her to even have her own voice.

on the few occasions when Metal acts on her own, she often transforms into her powered-up form, Neo Metal Sonic. in this state, she seems free to make more choices of her own that defy her programming, further driven home by the fact that she gives herself a voice. she also grows out her "hair" (spikes/quills) and wears a garment that looks very much like a dress.

as a recurring villain across over 30 years, it's unlikely Metal Sonic will ever canonically make the leap out of Eggman's shadow and get the redemption arc she's rejected so many times, but I like to think if she ever did, her claiming freedom for herself would tie into accepting herself as a trans girl. a fresh paint job and a voice chip for her default form could go a long way for her, I think ...

but yeah, these are my thoughts on Metal Sonic! a pretty mysterious character who sits at an interesting thematic intersection between two different-but-related power structures. I'm hype to see what they do with her character next!

[Addendum! while I was writing this post, I stumbled on a preview for a future Sonic IDW issue involving Metal Sonic that looks really interesting in relation to what I've discussed here! I'll put my thoughts on this preview under the cut - beware of spoilers!]

the preview that's been shared seems to be a cover for issue #84, which features Metal Sonic together with Eggman, Sage, Sonic and Belle. not only will this be the first time Sage is featured in the IDW comics, it is VERY interesting to see that she will appear alongside her father, her father's other kid, as well as Eggman's third estranged daughter.

to summarize, early on in the comic's run, Eggman briefly lost his memory and lived a peaceful life under the pseudonym Mr. Tinker. during this time, he created Belle, a puppet-like robot whom he treated like a daughter. after Eggman regains his memories, Belle considers her true father dead, unable to reconcile the loving father she knew with the monster he's become. though Eggman offers to employ her, she rejects him.

I think it's extremely promising to see that Sage's first appearance in the comics will involve both Belle and Metal Sonic. just the fact that all three of them will appear together seems to indicate that the subject of Eggman's parental role to all three of them will come up and gain some nuance. Belle is a heroic character who refuses to accept a subservient role to her parent. Sage is a sympathetic villain who is all too happy to accept her subservient role in exchange for parental affection. Metal Sonic is a dubiously sympathetic villain, and sits somewhere in the middle; she begrudgingly accepts the hand she's been given, even though she's clearly unhappy and only receiving a fraction of the affection Eggman offers Sage. no doubt these perspectives will clash in some interesting ways!!

as a final aside, on the subject of Belle, I always found it compelling how Belle losing her father coincided with Metal regaining hers. what ultimately jogs Eggman's memory and causes him to go back to his old ways is seeing Metal Sonic injured.

I've wondered if this was supposed to be a callback to Eggman's original start of darkness - his disillusionment with humanity after learning that the grandfather he idolized had been executed as part of a military coverup. it ties in perfectly with the recurring theme of familial love as a corrupting force for his character.

[seventeendeer]

hey did you see the whisper and tangle news 👀 they're getting canon voices

I DID, IT'S SO EXCITING !!!!

I really wonder if this means we'll see them (and maybe more IDW characters) in other voiced media in the future? Sega going out of their way to cast voice actors for them is a very interesting choice, that must've taken a decent amount of resources. it's not something I'd expect from a little podcast spinoff series like this, so maybe that means more voiced projects with Tangle and Whisper are in the works 👀

I was laughing at the idea of a Sonic podcast, but the Chaotix Casefiles clearly have a shocking amount of effort put into them, and there's way more interesting worldbuilding and character work than I thought there would be. what a strange and delightful time it is to be a fan of this series

[seventeendeer]

Wait where'd you get the "Tails sees his own past self in Kit-" (not copying the whole thing lmaooo). Was it said somewhere? Or did you just come up with it yourself

the first part ("Tails sees his own past self in Kit and that's why he's uniquely able to sympathize with him") is strongly implied the first time they meet:

even before finding out that Kit was engineered to be his replacement, Tails instantly clocks him as someone similar to himself and tries to bond with him over what's likely to be shared trauma. this is complicated by the fact that while Tails was "only" picked on by other children when he was younger, Kit was physically and emotionally abused by an adult caretaker until very recently, and he is still being manipulated by his much-older "sister" and only friend - but there is nonetheless still enough common ground for Tails to be able to relate to an extent.

from this point on, we also see Tails repeatedly focus on trying to reach out to Kit, while most of the other characters are focused on trying to help rehabilitate Surge. Surge has a big personality and takes away a lot of attention from Kit, who's much quieter and seems like less of an immediate concern, but Tails' focus always remains on Kit's well-being anyway.

the second part ("but it also causes [Tails] to project his own issues onto [Kit] and that's why he's unable to genuinely understand him or help him") is the concept I'm hoping will be explored later on, for the reasons explained in the other post :]

[seventeendeer]

If Maria Robotnik were given a chance to experience life on Earth, what is one activity that you think she'd immediately want to do? My headcanon is that she would insist Shadow go urbexing with her.

oh urbexing extremely good pitch, she would've loved that. on a similar note, she's definitely also the kind of person who would've pushed herself way too much too soon going hiking. Shadow Generations mentions that she did a school report on chao, I bet she'd want to travel all over to see them in their natural habitats :']

if she'd lived into adulthood, I feel like she might've even pursued a degree in environmental science. which is an interesting contrast to Eggman, now that I think about it