"Astarion can be vulnerable and tender, namely when he's exploring the concept of non-sexual intimacy."
and
"Astarion is a selfish and hedonistic vampire who has a penchant for evil."
are all statements that are true at the same time. Get you a man who can do it all.
I don't understand this black and white, flat way of interpreting Astarion's personality. He can be selfish and vulnerable. He can be hedonistic and do good deeds. He can be loving and cruel. All at once. All in different situations and in different ways. For different reasons and different people. Just like all the other characters in the game, Astarion isn't locked into one list of personality traits that follow strict rules based on which ending you choose. I'm so confused by players who praise the game for its depth in narrative and emotional response from characters YET also treat Astarion's endings as if they're just:
Hidden Heart of Gold trope guy VS a mustache twirling villain in an 80's cartoon. Or Zuko VS Christian Gray.
Viewing his endings that way just completely flattens out his entire canon personality in ALL routes.
Astarion isn't as different in his endings as some seem to think. It's just really baffling to me to ignore entire parts of his background and personality for more "favorable" ones. It's always fine for roleplay, but to say those things were never there canonly or can't be there for other players is the most bizarre behavior to me.
There is a fascist takeover happening in Europe. Again. With pogroms targeting racialized and marginalized groups. Being at all silent about how media affects our perception of reality would be irresponsible of me. I stand in solidarity with you all. I will polish this as I go along, but this is for anyone who wants to understand.
Block, report, and move on from the inevitable racist shitheads. We have work to do.
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There is a... let's be charitable for a moment and call it "knee-jerk" reaction to discussions of racism in fandom. To call it character assassination, exaggeration, slander - anything but to acknowledge the dehumanizing system of power that underlies every part of this imbalance. It's only scary if you don't understand it, and as part of another group under siege for half a millenia, I am intimately familiar with it.
There are Romani perspectives on Astarion's storyline I would encourage everyone to read before mine. I don't wish to link them in case this post gets targeted. Please lend them your kind support and sincere gratitude for their contributions.
I do not "forgive" a character for questionable biases. I wonder why the writers put it there. I question its purpose in the narrative and the effect it has on the story and audience.
Let's discuss the effect:
The racism in Astarion's storyline serves no purpose, but the effects are harmful.
I've played evil (poorly). But I also have a very fucked up sense of humor and understand the appeal of a well-written fucked up little dude. Take, for instance, this Warlock from a BG3 playthrough:
Absolutely vile, but a clearly theatrical/satirical look at a classist piece of shit, you know, that sort of character. Take it as a palate cleanser after reading, and then gather your strength.
This is not a post about liking flawed characters. Please take your strawman, dust behind you, and move along.
I often find the trouble with depicting racism is the inherent unfamiliarity with the subject in a majority-white writer's room and company. There is an idea of what it entails, but not its purpose, and not its day-to-day application.
There is a veritable treasure trove of knowledge out there that I've ended up having to take in small parts. It is not easy hearing about the ways people have hurt others, systemic and otherwise. I genuinely want us to learn from this and be better for one another.
So when I see depictions of people who are Indigenous and Romani and Sinti, I wonder... why? And why were these writers chosen for this character/storyline?
In Astarion's storyline, from what I can tell, he makes light of stealing the Gur children. I can tell this is meant to be a depiction of guilt and deflection. What sucks is the fact that he's ultimately a white man making light of the fact that's... historically what they do.
The point, I believe, of him "following Cazador's orders" is to invoke the Nuremberg Defense. The tragedy is that Astarion, by D&D logic, literally couldn't do anything but follow his command. It's implied because he's defensive as hell, but he feels exceedingly guilty regardless. For all we know, it's earned.
Is Racist Magistrate Astarion still canon? If so, his "grudge" against the Gur is motivated by racism. Is that something we are prepared to confront with more than a line? Was he just a (maybe recently?) privileged asshole exercising his newfound power? In that case, his use of systemic power over the Gur may be read as a parallel to his storyline. But then the Gur need autonomy as well.
There is something to be deconstructed here, but I would not know its intimacies from my perspective. Others would. They may restructure it altogether so that it makes sense for their experience.
Here is what I know, and it should not be on this group alone to point it out: The inappropriate misuse of these tropes has encouraged racism in the fandom at large.
Performing a script well is not the fault of the voice actor, nor is the twisted logic of fans the fault of the writers. I am pointing out that reckless inclusion of certain ideas can have very unfortunate implications:
So stealing their children, expressing little remorse, and then "sparing" them the pain of executing stolen marginalized children is a good ending? I'm adding some untagged comments here for emphasis:
I find it interesting the game recognizes the complexity of the situation regarding the spawn and doesn’t punish the players or Astarion whatever the choice as long as they aren’t doing it for selfish reasons. Some good, thoughtful writing there.
Wow, even as a dedicated Astarion romancer, I was beginning to feel like it was a little unfair how much more recognition Neil is getting over the rest of the cast, but now I’m reminded of why. I’ve finished the game 3 times and never even considered not sparing the spawn, because if he deserves a chance, why don’t they? But the conviction he has behind his words in this makes me think I’ve been making the wrong choice.
Person 1: I really dislike Ulma. She’s such a judgmental Monday morning quarterback.
Person 2: same, no matter what you do she'll blame Astarion for things that were outside his control
Spawn Astarion sparing their children as spawn is better and in line with his story, but for some reason, that isn't acknowledged through commentary, dialogue, or mechanics... thus, again, unfortunate implications:
To the spawn Astarion,
Greetings from the family of Ulma, hunters of monsters and keepers of peace across Faerun.
We know this letter finds you well, for although we hunt you no longer, we do sometimes keep a watch. Your restraint and control over your bloodlust has been admirable. Indeed, it has been an inspiration for our children, who have struggled with their own hunger.
These last months have been a difficult time for our people. We have protected and nurtured our children as best we can, and we have learned much. Herbs we once used to dull our foes' minds are now sedatives to ease hunger and pain, restraints built to hold the undead now protect them from themselves. There has been a lot of pain, but a lot of progress too. Our children learned discipline and control, while we learned compassion and patience.
There was a time when we would have destroyed any undead creature, our own blood or not, and called it a mercy. But then we met you. Wer saw that redemption was possible. Difficult, yes. Painful. But possible.
You saved our children first from Cazador, and then from us. For that, we thank you.
We will watch you still, but with more admiration than fear.
Walk in peace, Astarion.
And, according to these commenters, it's better to kill them because the marginalized Elder is never satisfied with the man who stole their children?
It sounds so casual, I think. Perhaps they don't know what stealing children from a community really means.
Take it in with me for a moment. It is a scene taken from many memories and one. Look at how these families fought to stay together. Look at how they fight priests, nuns, and state officials - ones who my friend assured me are very friendly - how they grasp at their children with such painful desperation on their faces. It is a way for one to bear witness to unfathomable love and heartbreak.
When genocide deniers play their games, this is what they want you to pretend never happened. Don't mind the tens of thousands of child graves, or the stolen land. Just pretend these people are criminals out to swindle you, or steal your wives.
Growing up, listening to survivor testimonies, and the sweet reverberance of the remnants of survivors of slavery, you appreciate what you have. You remember every kindness. You love what you lost, and what you gained through gritted teeth.
And, you remember the unfathomable pain. It's why you promise to stop it from ever happening again, to anyone.
It is very sad. A heart is a heavy burden. Embrace it. To love is to live again, and to live again means you understand Never Again. Because people deserve to be happy. And that's worth a fight. That's why it's worth depicting with care and love, even when the subject matter threatens to choke you.
Let's get into Cazador Szarr.
I've played the game and understand that he has a backstory and some depth. What disturbs me is that an Asian man has the bloodiest, most brutal scene in the game with a white man killing him.
I can't let this be undiscussed as sinophobia rises in a pandemic. I am no authority, but I'm not ignorant. These posts are found in discussions of racism in BG3 and I would, again, prefer not to put a target on their back. Instead, show them support.
In terms of diverse storytelling, casting, and roles, I would only ask that a historical and sensitive look be applied. Hire people from these communities to act, direct, and write for that role. Writing is never easy. There is a weight and responsibility to it, but it's worth it to touch as many souls as possible.
I respect this history. That is why it is not something I believe should be thrown in as flavor text. It's why history needs to be respected as a great backstory to everything we create. We need each other, and we need art we create together.
Regarding the Anti-AA stuff, and I'm going to be blunt:
If fans of Astarion have to admit that he's toxic, manipulative, blah, blah, blah, then anyone who pushes for people to acknowledge it must acknowledge that they are control freaks who have nothing better to do with their time.
Seriously, you claim to be an Astarion fan, but you're here arguing with people about what they are doing with fantasy and their PERSONAL interpretations? In a medium with multiple endings and dialogue and allows you some freedom in how you play your character? You can't "debunk misinformation" with your perspective or interpretation. We are already fighting misinformation in reality, don't bring that in over a damn video game.
There's absolutely nothing else you'd rather be doing with that time? Like... playing another run-through or being creative with him and your Tav? Oogling the spicy scenes with the vampire? Nothing at all comes to mind?
Agree to disagree with your interpretations and move along. It literally doesn't matter if you disagree. If you can't do that, you deserve to be blocked for wasting others' creative energy while defending themselves from this BS. (that being said, don't interact with people looking to distract you from more important things, guys. Astarion needs your full attention or he gets cranky)
Also, you can't go, "I'm all for fans liking AA/support AA fans BUUUUT," and try to invalidate them with some BS excuse. You either support them or you don't. Anything you're "tired of seeing" stems from personal interpretations and headcanons that don't include you. It isn't for you. It's for them. It's their escapism and trying to use reality to excuse your criticism of that is ridiculous. It's why I refer to anyone who "shows concern" for fans who are delving into escapism while not knowing them personally as "Helen Lovejoys." Trying to use "concern" as a keyword toward people who are trying to distract themselves from the shit going on in reality is pretty shitty.
"Look, I had a plan. A nice, simple plan. Seduce you, sleep with you, manipulate your feelings so you'd never turn on me...All you had to do was fall for it...You deserve something real. I want us to be something real."
Translation:
"You were disposable until I realized I caught feelings for you and realized you're a person."
You guys find this shit romantic??? You guys find this moving??? I'm not here to be your trial run for being a decent person. I'm not here to rehabilitate shitty people. If there was an option I would stake the motherfucker on the spot. GOD have none of you had enough of men manipulating you??? Is this why you get off so much, because for once you actually can fix someone? Couldn't be, I have more self respect than that.
"You deserve something real." I deserved something real before you so graciously decided I was "worthy enough" to acknowledge my autonomy. You do NOT decide my worth. I'm sorry your own personal self worth is so low you don't think you're worthy of autonomy, but that's your own fucking problem to deal with. You mean you had to sexually assault me to see I was person, and since you didn't before that means you didn't sexually assault me? I wasn't a person before so the sexual violence doesn't count?? It's only now that you care for me I no longer deserve being sexually assaulted???
fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you FUCK YOU I WANT TO VIOLENTLY MURDER YOU LIKE YOU DESERVE. THE FIRST THING YOU DO AFTER GAINING FREEDOM FROM YOUR SEXUAL SLAVERY IS DEVISE A PLAN TO SEXUALLY ASSAULT SOMEONE. I WANT TO KILL YOU WITH MY BARE HANDS I FUCKING HATE YOU SO GODDAMN MUCH FUCK
So many Astarion fans will just... straight up lie or refuse to contextualize Wyll's interactions with Astarion in order to demonize him.
Say what you want about Wyll being arrogant or corny but Astarion is canonically evil (In DnD, alignments aren't a matter of opinion. Whether or not this is a good mechanic is not the point of this post so don't even bother). We don't get to see much companion/companion interaction outside of short barks, but we as players can infer that Wyll knows what type of person Astarion is.
Every time Astarion approves of the player character making a heinous decision or disapproves of a moral one, you're supposed to assume that Wyll and the other companions are right there observing. He has ample reason not to trust or like this guy, but Astaristans frame Wyll as petty and vindictive. They give so much grace to the 200+ year old vampire who can't muster up a modicum of sympathy for slaves that aren't himself, but can't give any of that to the ~24 year old monster hunter who has dedicated his life to helping those in need.
I'm not the one to usually assume someone is racist based on the sole reason of hating a black character, but the way they insist Wyll is secretly a bad person because he dislikes Astarion has me side-eyeing them so hard. It's hard not to feel this way as a black person, especially with how often black characters are held to much higher standards than white characters within fandoms.
Keep in mind, I love Astarion. He is probably one of my favorite companions in any RPG I have played, but I'm not going to pretend the way fellow fans of his talk about Wyll doesn't bother me.
Just remembered a few things that were flooding my mind for quite some time.
I never actually understood of why people were so surprised and taken aback of Ascended Astarion not accepting his partner fully transformed into illithid. Like... were everybody really expecting him, now being free from fearing opinions of other surrounding him and their judgement, to accept the very thing he despised from the very beginning, even before Ascending? There were so many times said personally by himself throughout the game that he hates mind flayers, he *isn't* a fan of tendrils, he sees them as monsters and has no desire to become one himself (of course, only Minthara out of all group eagerly accepts the astral tadpoles and dgaf, but the way Astarion tried to defend himself that he doesn't want to do something against his own will once more... I will never even look at that persuasion option in answer to make him change his mind).
Consider it more of my personal opinion, as always, or even my projection, but when I see spawn Astarion behaving right the opposite way, accepting illithid MC... I had been in toxic relationship where I had to accept the person's look just to stay together with them, fearing I will be left alone if I wouldn't. I can't view this as anything happy or even healthy. Of course, if I had therapy I could maybe have seen a different angle to it... But not now, obviously. (upd: my memory has twisted things a bit and it's better in game, skipping that part of my text wall.)
I don't think that this, however, has any real life associations, because it's not about something like losing your limb, your face, your mind etc, it's about turning into entirely different kind of creature, which is fantasy-only case. And seeing AA getting blamed as abuser for all of that is wild, as always.
Perhaps people stick to that "will you still love me if I was a worm (in this case, a squid)" too much, I don't know. AA definitely won't, not in the same way as before; nevertheless he still saves the connection between himself and MC. And I don't see a problem here. He doesn't have to pretend and he has all the freedom to say "no".
Gale: So I've got a few issues with my ex. It's kind of complicated some would even say she abused or groomed me. I have mixed feelings about it.
Fandom: WOrst person ever! He should kill himself!
Wyll: I sold my soul to save the city I love. Now I struggle between my patrons desire and my devotion to the vow I swore to protect the innocent.
Fandom: Ugh, so boring and fake.
Astarion: So I sold several people into slavery including children. You might think I'd feel guilty about that but I don't, in fact I find slavery hilarious when it happens to other people. Oh also I was a slave myself, due to this I want to kill 7000 people, including children to complete a ritual so evil a literal devil says it's fucked up.
Fandom: Oh poor baby! If you have any issues with this you hate abuse victims and I hope you die!
