Do you have any relationship headcanons about Iphigenia and her sisters? Euripides gave us Orestes and Iphigenia, so I was thinking of Iphigenia with Electra and Chrysotemis.
mmmhhhh this is something i´ve tried thinking about, but its rather complicated for me.
Orestes relationship with Iphigenia is easier to explore because, not only is there actual ancient material exploring it, but since Orestes was a baby when she "died", there wasn't really a dynamic that could be affected by her "death"
But Electra and Chrysothemis did probably have some type of dynamic with Iphigenia that heavily changed when she came back, and add that to the lack of ancient sources on their relationship, and you get a mess
Keep in mind this is a 100% my own headcanons
As I have mentioned before, I view Chrysothemis as the second child, so her dynamic with Iphigenia was more developed than Electra's, but since she was still a child when Iphigenia was a teen, their relationship rather "shallow", with Iphigenia not really taking Chrysothemis seriously and Chrysothemis overly idolizing Iphigenia, an idolization that only got worse after the sacrifice because Chrysothemis, in her new role as the eldest, tried imitating her overly sanitized idea of Iphigenia.
In my head, Electra's dynamic with Iphigenia was very wholesome pre-sacrifice, I like to think Iphigenia found Electra's shyness and quietness particularly adorable (contrasted with Iphigenia's own bright and social personality, and Chrysothemis' constantly anxious personality) so she adored spending time with her, just sitting around, it gave her peace. I don't think Electra remembers much of this interactions because of her age, but she does have vague memories of spending time with Iphigenia.
Now onto the post-Tauris relationship.
I think both sisters developed some kind of resentment towards Iphigenia, Chrysothemis on a more subconscious level than Electra. I don't think neither of them would ever intentionally show their resentment, but Iphigenia can tell, she's smart.
They are probably very awkward around each other at the beginning, specially Electra and Iphigenia, as Electra doesn't really have that many memories of her sister, and Iphigenia because the cute and quiet little girl she knew is now gone (and she thinks "obviously she changed, a 6 year old and a 24 year old are incredibly different" but she still feels a little sad about just HOW MUCH her sister changed)
Chrysothemis is a lot more emotional about seeing Iphigenia again, but she's still unsure on how to act around her. Iphigenia is secretly happy that Chrysothemis' personality is almost the same.
I think that, with the years, both of their relationship got better, and eventually they all three start acting as sisters again, maybe not in the same way as they did when little, but still sisters :)
And now, this isn't really about their dynamics, but I can really see Iphigenia struggling to understand that the mom she knew (A loving mother who cared a lot for her babies) is not the same mother her siblings knew (A mother who enslaved and tried to kill her children), I can definitively see that causing some fractures in the dynamic
I was reading a collection of Japanese legends and discovered that their author, Lafcadio Hearn, was part Greek by mother and was born in Greece, although he didn't remain there and was raised mostly in Ireland. At some point, he moved to Japan and married Koizumi Setsuko, a Japanese woman. He wrote books inspired by Japanese folklore with the help of his wife, who is said to have been passionate about legends and who apparently helped him both with writing in Japanese and with information about legends she knew. When he became a Japanese citizen, he took her surname and his Japanese name was Yakumo Koizumi. Both of his marriages were controversial by the standards of the time, as his first wife Alethea Foley was a Black American woman and this violated Ohio's anti-miscegenation law at the time and his second wife Koizumi Setsuko was Japanese and at the time Japan was also not open-minded about marriage with foreigners. Apparently, he had some importance in popularizing Japanese stories in Europe and the Americas. My question is: is he known in Greece? It's said that he had a great interest in Greek culture. I admit I hadn't heard of him before reading this collection, so I was curious if he was known in his mother's country. His mother, Rosa Cassimati, at one point annulled her marriage to his father and returned to Greece, as she was suffering from xenophobia in Ireland and missed home.
Incidentally, I found out about him recently in some article about little known influential Greeks. As this already implies, no he is not known in Greece. The attempts to make him known to the wide public, which I have noticed, are very recent and scarce. I have made a mental note to read his works, it will be so refreshing to read a Greek exploring a foreign culture instead of the opposite all the time. (Semi related fun fact: A LOT of the information we have about Wallachian Vlad Tepes, commonly known as Dracula, and especially his father and grandfather, come from his contemporary Greek historian named Laónikos Chalkokondýles. Does this have anything to do with Lafcadio? Well no, except the similarity that the vast majority of Greeks do not know him and I did not either until I made the peculiar decision to read a Romanian historian’s book about Dracula who was citing Chalkokondyles all the time!) Unfortunately Greeks nowadays only appreciate the popularisedTM by the West parts of our history, with few exceptions. A tragedy to be honest with you.
To turn back to him, can we appreciate how the Cassimatis mindset was so ahead of its time?
Lafcadio went against the law to marry a Black American.
He fully embraced his second wife’s culture and adjusted completely to it, to not make their marriage and her situation amongst fellow Japanese people difficult.
He took her surname, so non-typical for a man of his time.
His mom was not having it with the racism, said fook this, dumped the dad and returned to Greece. (Okay basically the marriage was awful in general and she couldn’t tolerate it so much she had to leave the children behind - the children were treated well by the father’s family)
There are museums both in Greece, in Lefkada island (his birthplace - hence his name) and in Japan about him. The town of Lefkada and Matsue city in Japan have become sister cities. So he is well known on an academic and statutory level in Greece but people on average do not know about him and his interesting life, no.
Vendo seus desenhos de personagens humanos ou humanizados e, cara, a síndrome da mesma face TREME diante de você. Ela morre de medo de você! Alguém diz "Polisena" perto dela e ela começa a tremer, pensando naquela pessoa que ela não conseguiu derrotar.
AKSHAKAJ NOSSA OBRIGADA!! Ainda tento melhorar nesse aspecto da minha arte mas fico muito feliz que já tenha resultados!!
I'm assuming your favorite Trojan War characters are in the House of Atreus, but do you have any favorite characters outside of the Trojan War context?
Im assuming we're not counting the gods here, because then it would be a different list lol.
Sooo, my favorite characters outside the trojan war context? Those would be:
5. Atalanta: She's just so fucking cool! It's surprising she's not more popular tbh, I only learned about her when I really started getting into Greek mythology
4. Callisto: We don't really have that much about her personality, but her story is interesting to me, and I have my own headcanons
3. Ariadne: We love a queen who gets her happy ending after a crappy break up. I guess I'm just sappy for "girl really goes through it but gets her happy ending"
2. Erigone: okay so I'm not sure if this one counts ?? Because technically her family counts as part of the trojan war context?? But she's like, not really related to any of it?? I decided she doesn't count because I love her and want an excuse to say that. My poor little meow meow who lost her whole family over a vengeance she had no business in
1. Semele: okay this may seem weird to most, since a lot see her as a dumb homewrecker with a big of ego...which she kinda of is BUT I LOVE MY PROBLEMATIC QUEEN!!! She expresses a sexual desire for her lover that most women in the myths aren't really allowed to show, and that's just so fascinating to me. She also seems to have a bad relationship with her sisters, because I don't think sisters who got along say shit like "well she probably lied about her relationship and was actually being a slut so Zeus' killed her" about their dead sister, and I think an exploration of her relationship with her sisters (and family in general) would be interesting. Imagine how awkward it most have been when Ino got deified and they reunited lol. I also like to think she actually got along well with Polydorus since there's a source that mentions him being the one to make her tomb. She's complicated and interesting TO ME
You mentioned that you liked Ariadne, right? I was wondering, do you also have the headcanon that she really liked dancing? Ever since I read this passage in The Iliad, this has stuck with me:
And on it the famed crook-legged god made a patterned place for
dancing,
like that which once in broad Knossos
Daedalus created for Ariadne of the lovely hair [...]
The Iliad, 18.590-592. Translation by Caroline Alexander.
The idea of the genius Dedalus using his skills to make something as mudane as a dance floor for Ariadne to dance on…and her marrying Dionysus kind of fits that too, considering the depictions of dancing maenads! Usually Greek ceramics show her next to Dionysus to hold him or be in some romantic involvement, but now I'm wondering if Ariadne was part of the dances as well.
Yes!! I love the headcanon that Ariadne loves dancing!!!
I have always pictured Ariadne as a very wild girl, specially considering the man/god she ended up marrying 😅 He must has seen something in her to chose her, out of so many goddesses and women, to be his wife
I like to think she REALLY insisted her father to ask Dedalus to make her a dance floor, or maybe Dedalus was kind enough to do it at just her request (he does seems to just do whatever the fuck that family tells him to do)
She always will be an annoying princess with a love for dancing, wine, nature, and, sometimes, killing to me
I don't think I have much of a reason? I think they have the potential to have a very "Old married couple" dynamic pre-The incident™
What are your favorite things about the ship?
I like the messiness. This may seem weird but I do prefer Euripides' version where Agamemnon killed Clytemnestra's previous husband and child, and I like specially combining it with the myth of Agamemnon and Menelaus hiding in Sparta after their exile, I think it could bring a very fucked situation of Clytemnestra seeing her close friend (that she may or may not had a crush on) murder her husband and son and having to deal with the complicated feelings afterwards.
Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?
My unpopular opinion on this ship is just me shipping it in general I think /j But seriously, the story is more compelling TO ME (emphasis on ME) when I think they at least liked each other
Ask game! Now, a character you really like: Ariadne, questions 7 and 8!
ooohhhh, this is fun to think about
I'm guessing that by "something the fandom does" it exclusively refers to non-canon or implied things in the texts.
Something I really enjoy is Crazy Maenad-like Ariadne, there are some Ancient Art that have Dionysus alongside a female figure, and we can't really tell if the figure is supposed to be a Maenad or Ariadne, so I really grew fond of the concept! I like it when women are wild <3 Though I think I have expressed my love for Fucked up couple Dioari before haha
As for something I don't like... This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I could never get fully behind Ariadne having an actual sibling relationship with Asterion/The Minotaur, or even just her acknowledging him as her brother. I can see her having complicated feelings about him because, yeah, that's technically her half-brother, but he is also a weird half-man half-bull monster. I also just don't think Minos would allow any of his children to interact with The Minotaur or even see him.
This is a less popular concept, but I also don't like or understand the idea that Ariadne helped Theseus not out of love for him, but rather to stop her father's cruelty. I obviously don't think Ariadne was very approving of her father's actions, but most sources I have read, in fact, say she helped him because she was in love with him. I don't think that makes Ariadne bad, maybe she fell for Theseus because he was willing to go against Minos, maybe falling for him gave her the strength to fight for what's right, whatever, my point is, I don't get why you would try to erase the fact her love for Theseus was the reason she helped him lol.
When they had landed in Crete, Ariadne, the daughter of Minos, became enamoured of Theseus, who was unusually handsome, and Theseus, after conversing with her and securing her assistance, both slew the Minotaur and got safely away, since he had learned from her the way out of the labyrinth
Diodorus Siculus, Library. Translation by Charles Henry Oldfather
the artwork here is that palace, and its inextricable maze:
and yet Daedalus himself, pitying the noble princess
Ariadne's love, unravelled the deceptive tangle of corridors,
guiding Theseus's blind footsteps with the clue of thread.
Virgil, Aeneid. Translation by A. S. Kline
And when he came to Crete, Ariadne, daughter of Minos, being amorously disposed to him, offered to help him if he would agree to carry her away to Athens and have her to wife.
Pseudo-Apollodorus, Library. Translation by James George Frazer
most historians and poets tells us that he got from Ariadne, who had fallen in love with him, the famous thread, and that having been instructed by her how to make his way through the intricacies of the Labyrinth
Plutarch, Life of Theseus. Translation by Bernadotte Perrin
When Theseus came to Crete, Ariadne, Minos' daughter, loved him so much that she betrayed her brother and saved the stranger, or she showed Theseus the way out of the Labyrinth.
Hyginus, Fabulae. Translation by Mary Grant
This are some of the sources I could find that mention Ariadne's love for Theseus as the reason she helped him. Theres probably more but its 2 AM here lol
