random fact: i have weirdly small hands and one time i freaked out a girl in my class purely just because i put my hand on her desk it has fueled my power
Random fact: I once intimidated a very large banker without raising my voice so badly he asked his supervisor to sit in on our meeting.
This is a long post of mine and Lindy’s text conversation about the fandom treatment of Iron Man & Capt.
Preface: This is mostly just regarding the MCU, not so much any comic development so we're p much just talking about the movies here. The only changes were grammar things so this is pretty much a transcript of our texts. And because of that at points we have two related conversations running at once so I’m sorry for that.
Anything in here is entirely opinionated so if you disagree with anything we say that’s cool because it’s just an opinion and our opinions dont really mean anything and if we disagree thats fine it happens. We also might be wrong about some stuff because that happens sometimes.
PS this is really fucking long so please ignore this unless you enjoy long opinonated thoughts on the MCU
L: I mean I know why people don't like him but I also don't know why. Like he's not pro-military at all and the misogynistic thing was like his idiot party phase that he's trying to distance himself from and he's an alcoholic and had abandonment issues.
O: No one is allowed to hate a marvel character. They are problematic cause they are human. And fuCKING THANK YOU.
L: And all his lil asshole quirks are literally just him deflecting so he doesn't have to be series and I mean the avengers writing makes him flat bc he doesn’t progress much. I LOVE TONY IDK LIKE JUST CAUSE HE’S A MALE AND HOOKED UP WITH A LOT OF GIRLS ONCE UP A TIME DOESN’T MEAN HE’S A BAD CHARTACTER OMG
O: Movie writing will NEVER match written writing due to time constraints so characters are always flattened
L: That’s tru I guess I just get annoyed cause all his character development like resets every movie but idk I still like him
O: Tony was raised in a way where he grew up thinking that it’s okay to behave like that because that’s all he knew. So do many young rich people, like the rich kids of athletes or movie stars and that sort of thing, so I mean, it’s completely understandable for him to act that way
L: YEAH. PEPPER FRICKIN RUNS HIS COMPANY. HE’S NOT THAT MUCH OF A MISOGYNIST OR SOMETHING
O: You’re right about the deflecting because I dont think he was.... he really didn’t have a mother figure and daddy stark didn’t seem to be in the picture that much so I guess yeah, he never really had anyone really teach him how to handle certain situations and he found that brushing it off is the best way
L: Like sure he makes asshole comments but he genuinely respects women, he just also want to sleep with them
O: His character was forced to be flattened in the movies because it’s a movie and they don’t have time to really go into the backstory of everybody which would make him make a little more sense. That’s not saying it makes it okay but it makes it more understandable as to why he’s like that. And wanting to sleep with a lot of women is not actually a problem. people who will say that are people who in the same breath will say that men who want to sleep with all the women are awful but women who want to sleep with a lot of men are fantastic and strong and beautiful.
L: Yeah exactly! idk i mean sure you can not like certain characters as much but ppl are always shitting on Tony and praising Steve and I do not understand
O: I don’t know Stark just has a lot of potential as a character that I don’t think the movies are really able to encompass properly. And don’t even get me started on people who think Steve is a perfect little angel and then shit on everyone else in the franchise
L: Yeah like, as long as u dont treat the girls you sleep with terribly I don’t see why it’s a problem like they wanted to also
O: Just fuck everybody if you want to but at least you can make them breakfast or something. don’t be a total dick about it. don’t be a Clint Barton.
L: like, Steve is actually super controlling and really boring in the comics.... he’s a military dude he follows orders to the T he doesn’t question them and that’s where Tony and him get into problems. in the movies they kinda made Steve even more boring imo because he’s just... too good. he was no flaws
O:the movie did a really good job of making Steve seem like a perfect angel. yeah he is the blandest characters in the movies and then in the comics he’s not really the most incredible and that’s exactly it though, like Tony is the ‘bad character’ because he has flaws and he’s an awful human being. Whats so great about Steve other than his ass? Like oh my god, media portrays a real person and people flip their shit like calm the fuck down what makes Steve so great? he is that ideal gentleman apparently like no, i’m sure he’s probably got a lot of ‘internalized misogyny’
L: he lived in the 40s or w/e i’m pretty sure he wasn’t all gung ho about women’s rights omg
O: like sure he (almost) dated Peggy Carter who wouldn’t take his shit because she is a very special case in actuality in terms of how outspoken she was but like you can’t tell me that if Steve had been the beefcake from the start instead of a scrawny little bitch boy he wouldn’t have been fucking everything that moved
L: Steve and Tony are supposed to be foils but they just made Tony like... pick fights in these movies? like Steve just flat out attacks his personality for no reason repeatedly. YEAH BASICALLY.
O: Steve Rogers is a dick 2015
L: like Tony is supposed to actually represent free thinking and creativity nd normal humans and Steve is supposed to be all super bc he follows every order exactly and lives for the military like, THEY ARE CHARACTER FOILS
O: Steve Rogers was propaganda made up to deal with World War 2 so he is meant to be the perfect American who follows instructions and make people think that war is great but then there’s Tony who is made for whatever reason who’s like ingenuinty and gross as a human. Cuz like, has Steve actually changed at all in any of the movies he’s been in at this point he feels like the exact same character he was at the start of the first movie. Iron Man has had like four or five movies at this point and he’s grown so much as a person and as a character it’s just frustrating
L: YEAH BRUH ALL THAT YES OMG. Like Tony is supposed the be a poster boy for why weapons and wars are bad. He gets kidnapped, almost killed, tortured and loses ppl he cares about over it. He’s 100% anti military by the end. So the fact that ppl are always pinning him with military propaganda and not Steve makes NO SENSE TO ME
O: Tony grew up with weapons tech but he then realized the harm it was doing and has done everything in his power using his privilege to change that, like clean energy he’s trying to develop that and he’s trying to disassociate himself with the weapons because he doesn’t want to be that person where as what is Steve Rogers other than Captain America. He is Captian America, American symbol of WWII how is that not military propaganda
L: I don’t understand that either omg
O: I just dont see whats so great about him. Sure he seems like a swell guy but that’s it theres nothing else to say other than he’s probably a nice guy and he has a nice ass and he’s polite, thats fine. he dated a feminisst before he was frozen? thats nice but it’s not enough to make ihm such a great character and sing his praises.
L: yeah basically like, having a character be perfect and do everything right is... bad character design
O: Steve Rogers character starts and ends with nice guy without a fedora. he’s so perfect. I mean Clint and Bruce have like no screen time but theyre more interesting characters than Steve because they have problems. Clint has had practically no screen time in any of the movies but he still managed to become one of my favourite characters because you kow there’s something more to him, you know he’s not perfect
*small off topic bit where we compared Capt & Superman, and Stark & Batman*
O: everyone talks about how Steve would adapt so easily and he’d be tricking his fellow Avengers with his feigned lack of knowledge and while i believe that second part, i dont think he’s be as enthusiastic and welcoming as people think he would be to changes, like have you ever tried to teach an old person how to use a computer?
L: Cap’s never been interesting people literally just think he’s gay for Bucky and he’s hot and thats why suddenly he’s interesting. Well that and Peggy is great. even in the movies he just like decides he hates Stark even though he’s so willing to give Bruce a shot just because Tony made some mistakes before
O: Yeah what the fuck is up with that though like Bruce destroyed Harlem in the MCU, like this is movie canon, but yet thats forgivable because he got angry but yet Tony’s unforgivable because he was raised to think something was correct and realized it was wrong
We’re both aware that our opinions/beliefs regarding the characters are our own, and that some of our thoughts of the comic books may not be entirely correct. As it stands, this is how we feel about the MCU
my fave thing is that u give really solid advice and ur very understanding and smart and also that one picture of u that i have where ur screaming by a christmas light dragon
Answer all the ones with ur favorite su characters
this is unfair since the correct answer is all of them but heres some
Steven: Do you have a lot of friends or just a small group of close friends? Just a small group of close onesAmethyst: What is/are your favorite food(s)? Uhh... I don’t really have a favourite foodPearl: Do you get anxious/stressed easily? *distant gay bird screaming* only alwaysGarnet: Do you have any people in your life you couldn't live without? Only a couple friends, but i fiercely love them and dont want to lose themLion: Do you like taking naps? YessssssConnie: Do you like to read? What are your favorite books? I work in a book store so yes? But for a favourite, anything by tamora pierce, really.Lapis: Have you ever had to make a sacrifice to help others? Depends on what this means. I’ve given up a fuckton of sleep to support people at night but i dont think there’s anything major
