#case system

[yvanspijk]

Since seeing your post about Latin words that didn't make it to Romance Languages and what they would possibly look like I've been wondering: when a language loses its case system like it happened in most Romance Languages, are some words inherited from their accusative form instead of nominative because those words were mostly used as objects of transitive verbs, with a very limited scope where they can be used in the nominative case in normal daily conversation?

Hi there! Yes, that's indeed one of the reasons that the Romance languages preserved only the accusative form in 99% of the nouns. The accusative of many nouns is more frequent than the nominative because of what you pointed out.

Another reason why it was the accusative that survived is that its stem and stress were identical to those of the plural, while many nominatives were anomalous. If you realise that the final -m in Latin wasn't pronounced anymore from the 2nd century onward, plurals such as 'ratiōnēs' (reasons) and 'noctēs' (nights) were basically the singular accusatives 'ratiōnem' and 'noctem' plus -s, while the nominative 'rátiō' and 'nox' were anomalous.

[parksanddeserts]

I will forever find it weird that in Russian you teach someone-(accusative) something-(dative) instead of someone-(dative) something-(accusative).

[formerly-germannn]

Hi :) Do you know a website where I could practice Akkusativ, Dativ, etc?

Hm not specifically... although you'll probably find some links to grammar exercises here: http://germannn.tumblr.com/tagged/language learning

If someone could help out, that would be cool! 

[formerly-germannn]

Hey I've been using duolingo to start with basic German But I'm still confused with die den der when to use each Also haben and its sisters

die + der + das = definite articles

You need to know that German makes use of different cases to show the relationship of nouns and pronouns to the rest of the sentence.

There are 4 cases in German: Nominativ (nominative), Akkusativ (accusative), Dativ (dative), Genitiv (genitive)

The articles of a word reflect the case. For example, the nominative case of "the dog" is "der Hund". However, the accusative case of "the dog" is "den Hund":

der

nominative: der / accusative: den / dative: dem / genitive: des

die

nominative: die / acussative: die / dative: der / genitve: der

das

nominative: das / accusative: das / dative: dem / genitive: des

I know this must be terribly confusing at first, but you find many posts concerning the case system here: http://germannn.tumblr.com/tagged/case-system

I don't understand your second question. I mean... I don't know what exactly you want me to explain.

haben = to have

It can also be an auxiliary verb in the German perfect tense, but I doubt that you are already that far if you're still at a beginner's level. I also don't know what you mean with "its sisters". Sorry.

[formerly-germannn]

Hello! I'm learning German on duolingo abd I am wondering if you can explain dative/accusative/nominative cases for me? ^^

Hey there!

You already know cases from English: When “she” changes to “her” for example, it’s because the case has changed. (I’m just mentioning this because some people don’t even get what cases are there for, so this should help to get the idea.) In German, there are all in all four cases: Nominativ, Akkusativ, Dativ, Genitiv.

The NOMINATIVE case is always the subject of a sentence:

Mein Hund mag keine Katzen. (My dog doesn’t like cats.)

mein Hund > nominative

The ACCUSATIVE case is used for direct objects:

Ich sehe den Baum. (I see the tree.)

den Baum > accusative

The DATIVE case is used for indirect objects:

Ich gebe dem Jungen den Ball. (I give the ball to the boy.)

dem Jungen > dative

Here is something I already posted a while ago and it’s helpful to understand when you have to use which case: CLICK.

The German case system is a very broad topic, however, so understanding those basics is just a start. You might want to go through this tag to learn more about it and to find some more links: germannn.tumblr.com/tagged/case-system

[spanishskulduggery]

Does Spanish use a case system?

Yes, but not quite.

The case system technically exists in many languages but it doesn’t always change the form of the nouns or adjectives like it would in English, German, Latin, or Russian.

But you can clearly see how something would adhere to the cases in Spanish:

Lo tengo. - I have it.

Is technically accusative where the lo implies a direct object. The lo is just a placeholder for a masculine noun so…

Tengo el pan. - I have the bread.

…Has no change to the article el or the noun.

Where you see the change is in the yo, tú, nosotros and vosotros when they’re direct object markers…

Tú quieres… - You want…

Yo quiero… - I want…

Nosotros/Nosotras queremos… - We want…

Vosotros/Vosotras queréis… - You all want…

Te quiero. - I love you.

Me quieres. - You love me.

Nos quieres. - You love us.

Os quiero. - I love you all.

Another example would be…

Ella - She

A ella - To her

A ella is technically the dative case, meaning “to or for whom” but the ella doesn’t change 

But then again there’s a difference with yo, tú, nosotros, vosotros and then there’s le  and les.

Doy… - I give…

Te doy… - I give you… | (Te) Doy a ti… - I give to you…

Me das… - You give me… | (Me) Das a mí… - You give to me…

Nos das… - You give us… | (Nos) Das a nosotros… - You give to us…

Os doy… - I give you all… | (Os) Doy a vosotros… - I give to you all…

Where it gets weirder is the le and les because you don’t really need it, but you can have it, or not have it, or have it PLUS the a to be emphatic because le and les are used for the recipient but are unisex.

Doy a Ana… - I give to Ana…

Le doy… - I give to her…

Doy a Marco… - I give to Marco…

Le doy… - I give to him…

Le doy a Ana/ella… - I give to Ana/her…

Le doy a Marco/él… - I give to Marco/him…

Doy a Ana y Marco… - I give to Ana and Marco…

Les doy… - I give them…

Les doy a ellos… - I give to them (at least one male)… [Emphatic]

Doy a Ana y Luisa… - I give to Ana and Luisa…

Les doy… - I give to them…

Les doy a ellas… - I give to them (female)… [Emphatic]

*Note: Whether or not a person tends to use lo/la or le/les is a bit of a regional thing. Some people write Le quiero others write lo/la quiero.

In general, no. Spanish doesn’t really adhere to the case system. When it does, it’s primarily nominative, accusative or dative and only really with the pronoun or object markets. 

Regular nouns only change by gender or plural and not the case.

El perro - the dog

El perro va. - The dog goes.

Doy el perro. - I give the dog.

Doy la pelota al perro. - I give the ball to the dog.

Doy el perro a Ana. - I give the dog to Ana.

[The perro never changes; all that changes is the a / al [a + el] which is indicative of motion “to”]

I hope that made sense.

[formerly-germannn]

Hi! I recently moved to Stuttgart and am slowly learning German. I'm struggling with the akkusative object and how it works (der being den) is there anyway you can dumb it down for me to understand? You seem to be good at making things make sense!! Thanks if you can!!

(Aww yeah, Stuggi!)

Here is me trying to dumb it down a little:

First, you have to know how the articles change.

"der" > "den"

"die" > stays "die"

"das" > stays "das"

"ein" > "einen"

"eine" > stays "eine"

So the nominative case of “the dog” is “der Hund” and the accusative case is “den Hund”.

If the dog is the subject of a sentence, you use the nominative case. Example: “Der Hund bellt.” (The dog is barking.)

OK, but what happens when the dog becomes the accusative object of a sentence?

You usually can detect the accusative object by asking “wen oder was?” (who/m or what?); here is an example:

"Der Mann streichelt den Hund." (The man pets the dog.)

> What is he petting? - The dog.

So here you cannot say “der Hund” (nominative), it has to be “den Hund” (accusative).

The huge, huuuuuuuuuuuge problem is, however, that you have to know which phrases need an accusative or dative object. Often, it helps to look at the preposition that goes with it. (Click.)

The other huge problem is the so-called “N-Deklination”. You saw that “Hund” didn’t change in its accusative form. But some words do!

Example: der Junge (the boy)

Nominative case: “Der Junge spielt Baseball.” (The boy plays baseball.) 

Accusative case: “Die Frau sieht den Jungen.” (The woman sees the boy.) 

(Click for more info on that.)

I know, it’s super confusing and I’m afraid in the end there is no “easy” way to learn it. The German case system is simply super complicated, I apologize on behalf of the German language.

[formerly-germannn]

Hi I'm a student learning German and I would like to know if you could explain what dative and genitive cases are

That’s a very big and complicated topic. 

So I hope it’s okay that I answer your question by linking you to this site because I couldn’t possibly explain the whole German case system just like that. At the bottom of the page, you can find more about each of the four cases.