#courtposal

[fundiesimsfamily]

Judith Johnson part 6

Both my boys are on another date with their girls. Tabitha and I are the chaperones. We just listen to their conversation from a distance, keeping it pure. 

What the girls don’t know is that both my boys will ask them to start courting. I’m so excited for their future! 

They both brought roses to give to their girls. They planned everything together, how sweet. And then they popped their questions. 

Both Helena and Renee said ‘yes’ to their questions! They are now both in an official courtship! 

[duggardata]

Data From Allison + Jeremiah’s Wedding Website

Anons who sent this in, thank you!  Allison Bontrager + Jeremiah Helferich now have a wedding website, and it gives us some new data, notably—

Rough Relationship Timeline

Under “Our Story,” they summarize their relationship milestones, from the First Meeting to the Proposal.  Sadly, they don’t give exact dates—just a month and year—but, it’s better than nothing!  [Permalink to the “Our Story” Page.]  Here’s a cropped screenshot—

If you’re having trouble reading that, it says—

Heard About Each Other   December 2018

Met   May 2019

First Date   September 2019

Engaged   May 2020

Wedding   August 2020

Armed with this rough data, Duggar Data turned to other sources—namely, the Bontrager Family Blog—to look for additional clues...

Sadly, the Bontrager Family Blog didn’t help narrow down their early relationship any further. (But it did help with their Proposal Date, which Duggar Data is estimating as Saturday, May 30, 2020.) Elsewhere on their wedding website, an exact wedding date is listed—August 15, 2020. (The Bontragers revealed the wedding date on their blog, as well.) So, that is something.

You’ll notice that there’s no specific mention of any courtship, here. Duggar Data finds this odd, as the Bontragers are known to court. Absent evidence to the contrary, I’ll assume that they did court and that the First Date coincided with the Courtposal.

So, here’s a working list of their tracked data points. For those where we only know the month, I’m using the midpoint—rounded up, if necessary—consistent with my typical practice...

First Met c. May 16, 2019

Courting c. September 16, 2019

Engaged May 30, 2020 (Pretty Sure)

Married August 15, 2020 (Confirmed)

Allison + Jeremiah’s wedding website also lists their entire wedding party—and, as a result, provides...

Additional Helferich Family Data

Based on the “Wedding Party” tab, Jeremiah is one of 9+ Children. His siblings definitely include—

David Helferich

Isaiah Helferich

Josh Helferich

Josiah Helferich

Lydia (Helferich) Hardy

Praise Helferich

Stephen Helferich

Susanna Helferich

... that is in alphabetical order. We don’t know ages or birth order.

Duggar Data is fairly sure that the Helferich Family actually has 11 Children. So, it seems Jeremiah will not be including all of them in the Wedding Party—which is completely reasonable. Duggar Data did a bit of sleuthing, and thinks one of the two unnamed Helferiches is Luke Helferich—who seems to be the Eldest Helferich, or at least older than Jeremiah. As for the last one... I couldn’t find anything, at all. My theory is that that’s the Youngest Helferich.

[duggardata]

Not sure if this is info you have but anne marie maxwell revealed that on may 25th 2010 was the date her parents let her know that chrisropher wanted to meet her and see about presuing a relationship.

New (and Unexpected) Data:  An Estimated Courtposal Date for Christopher Maxwell + Anna Marie Hamilton

[ Source for May 25, 2010 Date ] 

Thank you, thank you for sending this in!  Totally missed it, and it’s really useful information!  We actually didn’t have any information at all about when Chris + Anna Marie started courting.  (It was input in my spreadsheets as “?”)  With this new information, I’ll use May 25, 2010 as their Courtship Start Date...  Based on what Anna Marie said, it sounds like that’s not the exact date he actually asked, but it’s the best lead we have to go on!

With an Estimated Courtposal Date of May 25, 2010, we now know that Chris + Anna Marie started courting at ~Age 31.06 and ~Age 24.10, respectively.  Also, we now know that they courted for only ~45 Days, before Chris proposed.  This factors into the Maxwell Averages, and will be used in predicting the pace of all future Maxwell Relationships.

Thanks a million, helpful Anon!

[duggardata]

Katie and Travis in New York very dressed up... potential courtposal?

When I first saw the photos, that’s the first thing that I thought, too! I think it’s a possibly. They posted the photos in NYC on December 3, 2019, so I’ll keep that in mind if it turns out he did ‘courtpose’ in New York, and we’re trying to figure out the Courtposal Date.

[duggardata]

In the what just happened for the new predictor, you didn't include Katie's courtposal. Could you explain why or am I missing something?

Oops.  Just overlooked it.  You’re right.  I speculated a few days ago that their courtship began in December 2019 in New York City; however, after Travis put photos of the ‘courtposal’ on Instagram, clearly showing it happened in Berlin, New Jersey, I’ve reconsidered that.  Now I think that maybe it happened when Kelly, Gil, and Katie were all in New Jersey visiting Travis for his 19th Birthday.  I’m using March 8, 2020 as their Estimated Courtposal Date, for now.  Hoping Bringing Up Bates will give us more insight into the actual date.

Also, to clarify, that data is in the Predictor.  I just forgot to mention the start of their courtship as a recent event in the Post.

I’ve edited the Post.

[duggardata]

How old was each Duggar when they started courting?

How Old Were The Duggars / Bateses When They Started Courting?

After comparing DOBs and ‘courtposal’ dates, here’s the full list from youngest to oldest at ‘courtposal,’ starting with the Duggars (and In–Laws)—

17.17   Marjorie Jackson

18.31   Ben Seewald

18.60   Josiah Duggar  (w/ Marjorie)

18.57   Kendra Caldwell

18.64   Lauren Swanson  (Approx.)

19.04   Joy Duggar  (Approx.)

19.56   Anna Keller  (Approx.)

19.87   Josh Duggar  (Approx.)

20.54   Duggar Average, Females

20.85   Jessa Duggar

21.36   Josiah Duggar  (w/ Lauren; Approx.)

21.65   Duggar Average, Overall

22.13   Joe Duggar

22.41   Jinger Duggar

22.52   Jill Duggar

22.77   Duggar Average, Males

22.92   Austin Forsyth  (Approx.)

24.71   Derick Dillard

26.08   Abbie Burnett

28.33   John Duggar

28.71   Jeremy Vuolo

… and now, the Bateses (and In–Laws), including the failed courtships (Zach + Sarah, Nathan + Ashley)—

18.44   Josie Bates

18.99   Alyssa Bates

19.32   Carlin Bates

19.78   Whitney Perkins

20.63   Ashley Salyer  (Approx.)

20.76   Chaney Kahle  (Approx.)

20.86   Tori Bates

20.69   Bates Average, Females

21.59   Erin Bates

21.70   Bobby Smith

21.93   Bates Average, Overall

21.95   Evan Stewart

22.30   Nathan Bates  (w/ Ashley; Approx.)

22.37   Traces Bates  (Approx.)

22.48   Zach Bates  (w/ Sarah; Approx.)

22.52   Kelton Balka

22.63   Sarah Reith  (Approx.)

23.17   Bates Average, Males

23.93   Michaela Bates

23.96   John Webster

24.29   Brandon Keilen

24.50   Zach Bates  (w/ Whitney)

25.93   Chad Paine

Interesting Ask!

[duggardata]

You probably already have this info, but I remember people were debating when Joy & Austin started courting. I’m watching “Tomboy Joy” S6E5 and it shows the clip of him asking her to court and it said November 2016

Yeah, you’re right!  Also, even more recently, they revealed they “weren’t even courting yet” at Jinger + Jeremy’s wedding.  That threw me, since I had a very detailed conspiracy going about how they began courting August 1, 2016.

Based on the hints they’ve dropped, the Estimated Courtposal date I’m using for them is November 12, 2016.  It’s pretty clear they began courting between November 6–15, 2016.

[duggardata]

You’re using June 12th as the hypothetical start date for Nurthan’s courtship, but that post where Jill teased a big “announcement” happening on July 1st was made on June 11th, so they must have already been courting for Jill to make the post (unless she weirdly jumped the gun)

Slight Shift:  Nurie + Nathan’s Estimated Courtposal Date is Now June 11, 2019

Smart thinking, Anons!  TBH, I totally forgot about Jill’s “pre–announcement”— and, didn’t even think about factoring it into my analysis of Nurie + Nathan’s Courtposal Date.  But, great idea!

ICYMI—Jill Rodrigues actually “pre–announced” Nurie + Nathan’s relationship on June 11, 2019, 12:18 PM EST, when she posted on Facebook…

Then, on July 1, 2019, Jill formally announced that Nurie + Nathan had entered a courtship.  She gave more details on Instagram on July 2, 2019, sharing that the courtship began “about three weeks ago”—i.e., c. June 11, 2019.  (On one of my prior Posts about this, I mistakenly said that that Post was made on July 4.  It was actually July 2.)  Currently, I’m working with an Estimated Courtposal Date of June 12, 2019 for NurThan; however, that’s a very rough estimate.  We don’t have a lot of information to go on, at this point.

But…  Anons, I think you’re right!  I think it’s fair to assume that Nurie + Nathan were actually courting at the time that Jill did the pre–announcement.  (It’s also quite possible that they weren’t.  Jill is definitely the type to get ahead of it and completely jump the gun.  But, with Jill being Jill…  I think the more reasonable assumption is that she wasn’t jumping the gun, and they were already courting at the time of the pre–announcement.)  Also, I think it’s possibly significant that Jill’s pre–announcement happened ~3 Weeks Prior to the formal reveal, around the same time as the courtposal.  I think it’s entirely possible, maybe probable, that Jill pre–announced the courtship on the day it occurred.  It all works out.

Given all this, I’m going to Nurie + Nathan’s Estimated Courtposal Date to June 11, 2019.  Thanks for sending this in!